Queens Bus Redesign Discussion Thread

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, 40 to 241st said:

I honestly have no reason to lie about what so ever I already explained that I wasn’t trying to lie about you and how I “shortened” not “adding words” to what you said and explained how there the same thing so there was no “lying”.   

I couldn’t care about  you calling my comparison a bastardization. Me comparing my bastardization to yours is actually a good one this time every time  you tried to find a way around it notice how I could easily counter it by explaining how mine was similar lol.

No, you flat out lied on 2 separate occasions & both of them involved that supposed bastardization you're claiming I did with 2 Bee Line routes (that, of course now you claim to not care about, when you should've never brought up Bee Line in a discussion involving a JFK-Bronx route to begin with).... I don't know what it is about that you don't get.... The crazy part is that you are STILL making a reference to the shit by so-called comparing bastardizations... It's like you're tone deaf or something... You're not easily countering anything, all you're doing is feebly trying to save face in this whole discussion because you know you were wrong (on multiple fronts), Mr. "there’s no bus to JFK".....

1 hour ago, 40 to 241st said:

I already explained to you why I want a Bronx to JFK route, how I would try to propose it, and gave an explanation on how isn’t that bad lol. I said that a route going through a lot of  somewhere isn’t that bad. 

I'm not asking for an explanation as to why you want a JFK-Bronx route... The question being asked is to prove that it isn't that bad.... Yeah, you said that bit about a route going through a lot of somewhere not being that bad already - That by itself is not only not proving anything, it's not saying much of anything..... By that logic, you can send a bus route from here to Tijuana, since "a route going through a lot of somewhere isn't that bad"...

Years of being on these transit discussion forums & the inclination of some folks to want to drum up some long winded route & try to make it more plausible by categorizing it as a LTD service, gets real old, real fast..... Got those guys above in this thread talking about how much of a disaster that MTA proposed Q10 would've ended up being (which would've eaten up significantly less mileage than a JFK-Bronx route) & here you are, hell bent on a JFK-Bronx route.... But do what you do, dude.....

[4 via Mosholu]

On 7/11/2023 at 3:18 PM, Cait Sith said:

IMO the Bx12 is one of the worst managed routes in The Bronx.

The 12 is actually a straightforward line; the one thing that they probably need to change is in regards to their interval numbers on their boards. Come to think of it, it's not the pressing thing that needs to be done now - though it makes me annoyed how there is a massive jump between interval numbers.

What really needs to be done for the 12 is to figure out a way to stop both of them (Local and Select) from coming back to back to the point that there is a long gap between buses.

[Cait Sith]

28 minutes ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

The 12 is actually a straightforward line; the one thing that they probably need to change is in regards to their interval numbers on their boards. Come to think of it, it's not the pressing thing that needs to be done now - though it makes me annoyed how there is a massive jump between interval numbers.

What really needs to be done for the 12 is to figure out a way to stop both of them (Local and Select) from coming back to back to the point that there is a long gap between buses.

Kinda killed your point about the line being straightforward. It's more complicated than it looks.

The management of the line got worse after the 2010 cuts, and it hasn't gotten better. From the horrible bunching between both services, to massive service gaps, to short-turns, to buses deadheading to a certain point just to catch up with the paddle, to other shit that happens with the line, it's one of the biggest mismanaged combination of routes in The Bronx as a whole. It's why I don't see the Bx12 as any sort of benefit for the Q44 extension.

[B35 via Church]

13 hours ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

what’s the point of eliminating the current Q48 and making a new one from scratch, obviously I have no room to talk as I haven’t lived in NYC for over 7 years.

Their claim is that these network designs are re-imagined, but all they really are in general, are combinations and/or (otherwise) alterations to current routes....

As to that proposed Q48 of theirs, all that is, is a renumbered Glen Oaks branch of the current Q46.... Eliminating/Phasing out the current Q48 in general, I personally don't take issue with.... I concur with having the Q19 take over the Q48 b/w Astoria Blvd/108th & Downtown Flushing (the rest of what they're proposing for the Q19 past Downtown Flushing is overkill)... However, having the Q50 run to LGA, AFAIC, is a big fat Noooo.... I mean, it's a bit of a pain for most Bronxites to even get to the Q50, let alone having those riders slog through Flushing before hitting the airport.... They'd have been much better off having an LGA - Bronx route emanate from somewhere in the West Bronx.....Broader reach....

I suppose I can understand them wanting to preserve a connection to LGA from Flushing, but I'd much rather have the Q50 left alone, the Q19 taking over the Q48's portion b/w Astoria Blvd/108th & Downtown Flushing, and have whatever Flushing riders seeking the airport take the to either Woodside or 74th for the Q70.... I'm of the belief that some people are doing the latter anyway....

2 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

I actually agree that trying to replace the 64 with the 10 would have been straight up disastrous in the long run. I'm just not really sure what exactly they were thinking regarding that specific proposal.

As with all of these redesigns, as was said, it's all about saving a buck; saving a buck off the backs of commuters.... Apparently, their logic with this is - A highly utilized route + another highly utilized route =  a super, duper, highly utilized route - and we can use less BPH to go about accomplishing it too !.... Of course, none of that factors in manageability, efficiency (now just imagine a Lefferts Blvd. route getting stuck in Jewel av. traffic.... yikes.), and in layman's terms, rider satisfaction (which is ironic, because they claim that redesigns are commuter focused.... You look at some of these proposals & you say to yourself, surely that declaration on their part is a crock of shit)....

I mean honestly, what % of commuters (on the Q10, the Q64, or are using other ways to get around between some 2 points) would really have their commute made easier by combining those 2 routes.....

Edited July 12, 2023 by B35 via Church

[40 to 241st]

11 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

No, you flat out lied on 2 separate occasions & both of them involved that supposed bastardization you're claiming I did with 2 Bee Line routes (that, of course now you claim to not care about, when you should've never brought up Bee Line in a discussion involving a JFK-Bronx route to begin with).... I don't know what it is about that you don't get.... The crazy part is that you are STILL making a reference to the shit by so-called comparing bastardizations... It's like you're tone deaf or something... You're not easily countering anything, all you're doing is feebly trying to save face in this whole discussion because you know you were wrong (on multiple fronts), Mr. "there’s no bus to JFK".....

I'm not asking for an explanation as to why you want a JFK-Bronx route... The question being asked is to prove that it isn't that bad.... Yeah, you said that bit about a route going through a lot of somewhere not being that bad already - That by itself is not only not proving anything, it's not saying much of anything..... By that logic, you can send a bus route from here to Tijuana, since "a route going through a lot of somewhere isn't that bad"...

Years of being on these transit discussion forums & the inclination of some folks to want to drum up some long winded route & try to make it more plausible by categorizing it as a LTD service, gets real old, real fast..... Got those guys above in this thread talking about how much of a disaster that MTA proposed Q10 would've ended up being (which would've eaten up significantly less mileage than a JFK-Bronx route) & here you are, hell bent on a JFK-Bronx route.... But do what you do, dude.....

I already proved that I made no  lies with what I said and I have no reason to care about you calling one of my comparisons bastadization. I already explained to you why I brought in those bee-line routes and speaking of bad comparisons how come you compare how long a JFK to Bronx route is to running a bus from NYC to Tijuana  lol. But I do see your trying to get me to find the basic point of why a Bronx to JFK route should not exist.
 

 

The real problem here is not that I am mad that you called my comparison a bastardization. It’s that I brought in one that you made and you don’t want to accept what you did wrong even though I should have brought that up in the other thread. I could easily say how your bee-line comparison was like mine with the Bronx to JFK route. 
I honestly can’t care less if I am wrong with something I accepted what I am wrong with and not once did I say there’s no bus to JFK I said in Jamaica where the q44 stops I thought it had no transfer to a bus that goes to JFK I’m not putting this in exact words because  because you didn’t understand what I said in the other post . The fact that you called me “Mr there’s no bus to JFK” shows that your assuming my gender. How do you know that I am a male lol. 

I realized that this Bronx to JFK idea might actually not work you proved a good point but while the proposed Q10 is long and a Bronx to Jfk is even longer but the purpose was to connect the Bronx to JFK this might not work out the way I want that type of route would but why wouldn’t people want making a long route more easy to do by making it a limited stops route. 

 

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

27 minutes ago, 40 to 241st said:

I already proved that I made no  lies with what I said and I have no reason to care about you calling one of my comparisons bastadization. I already explained to you why I brought in those bee-line routes and speaking of bad comparisons how come you compare how long a JFK to Bronx route is to running a bus from NYC to Tijuana  lol. But I do see your trying to get me to find the basic point of why a Bronx to JFK route should not exist.
 

 

The real problem here is not that I am mad that you called my comparison a bastardization. It’s that I brought in one that you made and you don’t want to accept what you did wrong even though I should have brought that up in the other thread. I could easily say how your bee-line comparison was like mine with the Bronx to JFK route. 
I honestly can’t care less if I am wrong with something I accepted what I am wrong with and not once did I say there’s no bus to JFK I said in Jamaica where the q44 stops I thought it had no transfer to a bus that goes to JFK I’m not putting this in exact words because  because you didn’t understand what I said in the other post . The fact that you called me “Mr there’s no bus to JFK” shows that your assuming my gender. How do you know that I am a male lol. 

I realized that this Bronx to JFK idea might actually not work you proved a good point but while the proposed Q10 is long and a Bronx to Jfk is even longer but the purpose was to connect the Bronx to JFK this might not work out the way I want that type of route would but why wouldn’t people want making a long route more easy to do by making it a limited stops route. 

 

 

Me trying to read all this: 

[B35 via Church]

12 hours ago, 40 to 241st said:

I already proved that I made no  lies with what I said and I have no reason to care about you calling one of my comparisons bastadization. I already explained to you why I brought in those bee-line routes and speaking of bad comparisons how come you compare how long a JFK to Bronx route is to running a bus from NYC to Tijuana  lol. But I do see your trying to get me to find the basic point of why a Bronx to JFK route should not exist.

The real problem here is not that I am mad that you called my comparison a bastardization. It’s that I brought in one that you made and you don’t want to accept what you did wrong even though I should have brought that up in the other thread. I could easily say how your bee-line comparison was like mine with the Bronx to JFK route. 
I honestly can’t care less if I am wrong with something I accepted what I am wrong with and not once did I say there’s no bus to JFK I said in Jamaica where the q44 stops I thought it had no transfer to a bus that goes to JFK I’m not putting this in exact words because  because you didn’t understand what I said in the other post . The fact that you called me “Mr there’s no bus to JFK” shows that your assuming my gender. How do you know that I am a male lol.

AFAIC, a JFK-Bronx route may as well be a route going from here to Tijuana - Neither of which needs to happen...

Plain & simple, if you honestly didn't care about my assessment of that silly comparison you made, then you would not have resorted to even bringing up some supposed bastardization I made involving Bee Line... The "real problem" isn't that you brought up a bastardization of mine, it's that it wasn't one at all ! - And on top of it, you lied (or as you put it, "adding words" or "shortened" words) on two separate occasions in this discussion as to what I actually conveyed in that Bee line discussion..... You don't get to lie on somebody multiple times & expect for that same person to admit to something they never did! That is delusional.

13 hours ago, 40 to 241st said:

I realized that this Bronx to JFK idea might actually not work you proved a good point but while the proposed Q10 is long and a Bronx to Jfk is even longer but the purpose was to connect the Bronx to JFK this might not work out the way I want that type of route would but why wouldn’t people want making a long route more easy to do by making it a limited stops route.

The problem isn't that riders don't want skip stop services (like, a LTD), the problem is that buses aren't remotely close to being the only vehicles on the road, I'll just put it that way..... The average bus speeds in this city are utter shit for a reason - including for LTD buses.... Hell, when the MTA came out with LTD service, LTD service back then should have resembled SBS service, instead of SBS style service having been implemented as late as it was...

[mikecintel]

**UPDATE** 7-13-23

Hi Everyone,

I just got a word that "The “final” will be out by Labor Day. Expect a few minor changes and implementation next year".  As for the public engagement I think it will be "soon" following the final draft.

Edited July 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[Q43LTD]

On 7/12/2023 at 7:34 PM, B35 via Church said:

Their claim is that these network designs are re-imagined, but all they really are in general, are combinations and/or (otherwise) alterations to current routes....

As to that proposed Q48 of theirs, all that is, is a renumbered Glen Oaks branch of the current Q46.... Eliminating/Phasing out the current Q48 in general, I personally don't take issue with.... I concur with having the Q19 take over the Q48 b/w Astoria Blvd/108th & Downtown Flushing (the rest of what they're proposing for the Q19 past Downtown Flushing is overkill)... However, having the Q50 run to LGA, AFAIC, is a big fat Noooo.... I mean, it's a bit of a pain for most Bronxites to even get to the Q50, let alone having those riders slog through Flushing before hitting the airport.... They'd have been much better off having an LGA - Bronx route emanate from somewhere in the West Bronx.....Broader reach....

I suppose I can understand them wanting to preserve a connection to LGA from Flushing, but I'd much rather have the Q50 left alone, the Q19 taking over the Q48's portion b/w Astoria Blvd/108th & Downtown Flushing, and have whatever Flushing riders seeking the airport take the to either Woodside or 74th for the Q70.... I'm of the belief that some people are doing the latter anyway....

I'm still trying to wonder why the Q19 needed to be extended east to Beechhurst too. 

[IAlam]

7 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

I'm still trying to wonder why the Q19 needed to be extended east to Beechhurst too. 

The same reason it was combined with the Q48 and the Q10/64 combo was made, to cut costs.

But something I want to add to the convo is, the reason why a lot of the routes look a bit weird in this current draft is that they want to preserve every major point-to-point travel that can currently be made. If a standalone route gets eliminated then another route comes in to fill its place. I think the reason it was done this was as due to the backlash from the original proposal which basically gutted the entire system and changed where people's buses would go entirely. People making the same commute for years would now have to take a completely new route going to different neighborhoods and hubs. Additionally, a lot of their limited express and local bus-stopping patterns and frequencies didn't make any sense. In the end, they reverted a lot of those changes and now for the most part if the bus you normally ride goes to so and so hub, whatever new bus you get should do the same. Whether that's for better or worse is everyone's own opinion but that's why you get some of these weird combination routes.

Honestly, all that debate over the last couple of pages that I don't want to recap, is why NYC needs a regional bus transit agency like GO Transit or Sound Transit. That way we could have a bunch of routes that don't solely focus on getting people to and from the city. 

[40 to 241st]

7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

AFAIC, a JFK-Bronx route may as well be a route going from here to Tijuana - Neither of which needs to happen...

Plain & simple, if you honestly didn't care about my assessment of that silly comparison you made, then you would not have resorted to even bringing up some supposed bastardization I made involving Bee Line... The "real problem" isn't that you brought up a bastardization of mine, it's that it wasn't one at all ! - And on top of it, you lied (or as you put it, "adding words" or "shortened" words) on two separate occasions in this discussion as to what I actually conveyed in that Bee line discussion..... You don't get to lie on somebody multiple times & expect for that same person to admit to something they never did! That is delusional.

The problem isn't that riders don't want skip stop services (like, a LTD), the problem is that buses aren't remotely close to being the only vehicles on the road, I'll just put it that way..... The average bus speeds in this city are utter shit for a reason - including for LTD buses.... Hell, when the MTA came out with LTD service, LTD service back then should have resembled SBS service, instead of SBS style service having been implemented as late as it was...

Wtf Tijuana is in another country comparing that to a JFK-Bronx route isn’t a good one.

At this point I don’t have time to argue about any bastardization. Or weather I was lying or not. 
 

I guess a Bronx to JFK route just won’t work weather I like it or not. But for now they may as well transfer to the proposed Q10 and the Q3. At least they got there one seat ride to LaGuardia. 

20 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Me trying to read all this: 

I knew that people hate me here  but wow I didn’t know people hate me like to piont we’re people want to make fun of me. 

[Bill from Maspeth]

18 hours ago, mikecintel said:

**UPDATE** 7-13-23

Hi Everyone,

I just got a word that "The “final” will be out by Labor Day. Expect a few minor changes and implementation next year".  As for the public engagement I think it will be "soon" following the final draft.

The folks in my neighborhood and those who are represented by City Councilman Bob Holden will not be satisfied with "a few minor changes".  There had better be BIG changes from the final draft because anything else will be fought by him and other City Council reps.  Routes from the former privates are being disseminated and this will not be acceptable!

[Bill from Maspeth]

Just now, Bill from Maspeth said:

The folks in my neighborhood and those who are represented by City Councilman Bob Holden will not be satisfied with "a few minor changes".  There had better be BIG changes from the initial draft because anything else will be fought by him and other City Council reps.  Routes from the former privates are being disseminated and this will not be acceptable!

Ignore the previous post and see the above.

[limitednyc]

Please elaborate on which routes, do u mean  disseminated or dismantled?

[mikecintel]

24 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

The folks in my neighborhood and those who are represented by City Councilman Bob Holden will not be satisfied with "a few minor changes".  There had better be BIG changes from the final draft because anything else will be fought by him and other City Council reps.  Routes from the former privates are being disseminated and this will not be acceptable!

Yes I know.  I am not happy that they will discontinue my route and make it "rush hour" only which is ridiculous.   I understand your concern but I got this from another group joined that is how I know.  I don't know which routes but we will find out when the MTA posts the final draft which will be coming soon and we have the public engagement I think you should join the meeting and make your voice heard.  On the first public engagement did you voice your concern?

Edited July 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[limitednyc]

3 minutes ago, mikecintel said:

Yes I know.  I am not even they will discontinue my route and make it "rush hour" only which is ridiculous.   I understand your concern but I got this from another group joined that is how I know.

I which route are u talking about and their a direct or indirect replacement.

[mikecintel]

3 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

I which route are u talking about and their a direct or indirect replacement.

I am talking about the Q34 that will make it to Q61.  Maybe the final draft the Q34 will not be replace but who knows. We will find out soon so right now I am not worried about it.

Edited July 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[limitednyc]

Ok u R in the  current  weekday only zone right?

[mikecintel]

26 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

Ok u R in the  current  weekday only zone right?

Yes the bus is currently only on the weekday zone.  Your are right.  The Q34 bus used to be on the weekday also during the 90's era.  Then in early 2000's they cut the weekends and only made it for the weekday and now they will have to discontinue the Q34 bus.  The current Q34 bus goes to the Jamaica LIRR station.

Edited July 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[limitednyc]

I know , also the sister route Q25 will be cut back to flushing and extended along merrick blvd.

[mikecintel]

3 minutes ago, limitednyc said:

I know , also the sister route Q25 will be cut back to flushing and extended along merrick blvd.

Yes right so I am not worried about it now like I said.  I have to see what the final draft will be.  I see so the Q25 will be extended to where the Q44/20 currently last stop  is.

Edited July 14, 2023 by mikecintel

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, limitednyc said:

Please elaborate on which routes, do u mean  disseminated or dismantled?

Swap of terminals for the Q39/Q67.  There are lots of students from Ridgewood who use Thompson Ave. and they lose direct service.  

The B57 runs like crap like it is due to Flushing Ave. traffic.  Now they want to extend it to Jackson Hts.  And yes, it ran like crap when the terminal was in Downtown Brooklyn too.  Going back to that will do no good.  

Loss of the Q29.  No more service along Dry Harbor Road.

Loss of 80th St. service to Woodside.  80th St. bus rerouted toward Grand Ave./Queens Blvd.

B62 to Astoria, yes that is in the Queens plan.  It runs like crap to Queens Plaza and now they're extending it to Astoria!  

Who the hell needs a route starting at B'way Jct., then taking the place of the B32 and further up taking the place of the B24 along Greenpoint Ave. in Queens?

Just plain dumb to combing the Q101 with the Brooklyn portion of the B24 to the Willy B Plaza. I see not thru ridership.  Send to Q101 to Columbus Circle.  With congestion pricing coming, we need more local bus routes to Manhattan, not less.  

Look, I am not looking fora war with youse guys.  Because we all have our opinions on what should be done.  These are some of mine.

[limitednyc]

So if they would keep the current span that the Q34 runs weekday, It would be ok with u?

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

Yes I know.  I am not happy that they will discontinue my route and make it "rush hour" only which is ridiculous.   I understand your concern but I got this from another group joined that is how I know.  I don't know which routes but we will find out when the MTA posts the final draft which will be coming soon and we have the public engagement I think you should join the meeting and make your voice heard.  On the first public engagement did you voice your concern?

I personally spoke to one of the planners in front of Maspeth Savings Bank when they had an official presentation.  The man listened and took notes.

[limitednyc]

I agree with u on the b'way jct -Greenpoint  make no sense the same for the b62 to astoria. I like the split of the b24.  Mabe  re route the b32 via Greenpoint ave and extended on roservelt to woodside.