East Side Access and Penn Station Access

[Jamall Hayden]

1.) I just wish more people looked at Grand Central Madison from the operational aspect in terms of flexibility. The current Amtrak owned east river tunnels are due for repairs and would drastically reduce Lirr’s service to Penn station, riders can still have direct Manhattan service via East side access! The current unfortunate East Bronx residents would also indirectly benefit from East side access via the Penn station access a project that would bring Metro North to Penn station via Amtrak’s Hell Gate Line. 
 

2.) Is it possible for Metro North to Access Grand Central Madison from the Hell Gate Line once Penn station access opens? I know it would kinda defeat the purpose of Penn station Access but it still gives East Bronx residents quick and direct service into Midtown. If Grand Central Madison continues to be as underutilized as people say it is then maybe the M.T.A (if it’s possible) could send some Metro North trains to G.C.M and reroute more Lirr trains to Penn Station that way G.C.M gets utilized more and L.I residents can get more service to Penn station.

[Lawrence St]

…what?

[trainfan22]

Metro North can't go to GCM because the M8s wouldn't fit in the tunnels. 

[Cait Sith]

43 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

Metro North can't go to GCM because the M8s wouldn't fit in the tunnels. 

On top of that....it's designated solely as an LIRR terminal.

[40MntVrn]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:59 PM, Jamall Hayden said:

2.) Is it possible for Metro North to Access Grand Central Madison from the Hell Gate Line once Penn station access opens? I know it would kinda defeat the purpose of Penn station Access but it still gives East Bronx residents quick and direct service into Midtown. If Grand Central Madison continues to be as underutilized as people say it is then maybe the M.T.A (if it’s possible) could send some Metro North trains to G.C.M and reroute more Lirr trains to Penn Station that way G.C.M gets utilized more and L.I residents can get more service to Penn station.

On point two, I'm assuming your thought process is to route MNR trains to GCM purely for optics? So that GCM can have better utilization?

[IAlam]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:59 PM, Jamall Hayden said:

2.) Is it possible for Metro North to Access Grand Central Madison from the Hell Gate Line once Penn station access opens? I know it would kinda defeat the purpose of Penn station Access but it still gives East Bronx residents quick and direct service into Midtown. If Grand Central Madison continues to be as underutilized as people say it is then maybe the M.T.A (if it’s possible) could send some Metro North trains to G.C.M and reroute more Lirr trains to Penn Station that way G.C.M gets utilized more and L.I residents can get more service to Penn station.

From Google Maps it appears that the tracks allow a train from GCM to go via Hells Gate. However, as also mentioned by @trainfan22 I highly doubt an M8 could fit in the tunnels due to additional clearance required by the equipment on top of those trains.

[darkstar8983]

On 7/3/2023 at 6:59 PM, Jamall Hayden said:

1.) I just wish more people looked at Grand Central Madison from the operational aspect in terms of flexibility. The current Amtrak owned east river tunnels are due for repairs and would drastically reduce Lirr’s service to Penn station, riders can still have direct Manhattan service via East side access! The current unfortunate East Bronx residents would also indirectly benefit from East side access via the Penn station access a project that would bring Metro North to Penn station via Amtrak’s Hell Gate Line. 
 

2.) Is it possible for Metro North to Access Grand Central Madison from the Hell Gate Line once Penn station access opens? I know it would kinda defeat the purpose of Penn station Access but it still gives East Bronx residents quick and direct service into Midtown. If Grand Central Madison continues to be as underutilized as people say it is then maybe the M.T.A (if it’s possible) could send some Metro North trains to G.C.M and reroute more Lirr trains to Penn Station that way G.C.M gets utilized more and L.I residents can get more service to Penn station.

To comment 1:

This would be the push the LIRR / MTA can do to get more people to use GCM, since a closure of even one East river Tunnel to/from Penn Station would force riders to go to Grand Central (even if they dont want to), since NJT still needs to get its train through to Penn. Similar to how we had the "summer of hell" in 2016/2017/2018 (I forget which year(s)) where LIRR service was cut by about 20-25% to Penn Station, and most trains were sent to Atlantic Terminal or Hunterspoint Av, this closure will bring more demand to GCM and maybe some riders will stick with it once they see how convenient it is rather than backtrack on the  from Penn Station to Lexington Av-53 St o 5 Av-53 St. 

 

To Comment 2:

The Penn Station access planned for MNRR would help the Hudson and New Haven Lines get their trains into Manhattan should the Park Avenue Tunnel be scheduled for any repairs, since they could use LIRR / NJT / Amtrak track to get into the East River tunnel. If I'm not mistaken, stations planned for the Penn Access for the New Haven Line are at Co-op city, Parkchester, and Hunts Point. Maybe a station in Astoria/Woodside could also be considered (not necessarily a connection to Ditmars Blvd for the  due to engineering feats that would be needed to construct a station there), but maybe closer to Steinway St or near 31 Av and 58 St, where the elevated structure isn't as high. just a thought.

[xD4nn]

21 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

To comment 1:

This would be the push the LIRR / MTA can do to get more people to use GCM, since a closure of even one East river Tunnel to/from Penn Station would force riders to go to Grand Central (even if they dont want to), since NJT still needs to get its train through to Penn. Similar to how we had the "summer of hell" in 2016/2017/2018 (I forget which year(s)) where LIRR service was cut by about 20-25% to Penn Station, and most trains were sent to Atlantic Terminal or Hunterspoint Av, this closure will bring more demand to GCM and maybe some riders will stick with it once they see how convenient it is rather than backtrack on the  from Penn Station to Lexington Av-53 St o 5 Av-53 St. 

 

To Comment 2:

The Penn Station access planned for MNRR would help the Hudson and New Haven Lines get their trains into Manhattan should the Park Avenue Tunnel be scheduled for any repairs, since they could use LIRR / NJT / Amtrak track to get into the East River tunnel. If I'm not mistaken, stations planned for the Penn Access for the New Haven Line are at Co-op city, Parkchester, and Hunts Point. Maybe a station in Astoria/Woodside could also be considered (not necessarily a connection to Ditmars Blvd for the  due to engineering feats that would be needed to construct a station there), but maybe closer to Steinway St or near 31 Av and 58 St, where the elevated structure isn't as high. just a thought.

Hudson line is not apart of Penn Access...

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, xD4nn said:

Hudson line is not apart of Penn Access...

Thanks for the correction 😁

[Lawrence St]

On 8/15/2023 at 10:59 AM, xD4nn said:

Hudson line is not apart of Penn Access...

Yes it is. It's part of Phase 2.

[Nitro]

Penn Station Access. That shit has FAIL all over it. AMTRAK mostly owns the ROW along with CSX from New York City to Buffalo it would rob ridership from AMTRAK who does not want any bullshit from the Metro North Railroad in their territory.

[Mtatransit]

3 minutes ago, Nitro said:

Penn Station Access. That shit has FAIL all over it. AMTRAK mostly owns the ROW along with CSX from New York City to Buffalo it would rob ridership from AMTRAK who does not want any bullshit from the Metro North Railroad in their territory.

How would it rob ridership from Amtrak when these two carrier serve different ridership segment? I doubt MNR is going to Albany anytime soon.

plus Amtrak wouldn’t even stop at those local stations anyways

[Nitro]

The proposed stops would only slow the speed of the EC Trains because they would be stalled behind Metro North Trains. Amtrak & Metro North Railroad both stop at Yonkers with AMTRAK owning most of the ROW except for most of the stations which are owned by the Metro North Railroad. AMTRAK Trains serve as the super express from NYC to Poughkeepsie. Merging the Metro North Railroad into Penn Station will only cause merging conflicts/delays=bottlenecks. Also you have to consider the logistics of Penn Station. Penn Station uses overrunning 3rd rail while the Metro North Railroad & AMTRAK use underrunning 3rd rail. Which goes back to the days of the Pennsylvania Railroad & the New York Central Railroad before the merger of 

Penn Central/CONRAIL/AMTRAK.

[Nitro]

25 minutes ago, Mtatransit said:

How would it rob ridership from Amtrak when these two carrier serve different ridership segment? I doubt MNR is going to Albany anytime soon.

plus Amtrak wouldn’t even stop at those local stations anyways

Also the Empire Connection is not electrified despite this project being feasible for double tracking & electrification.

[xD4nn]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Yes it is. It's part of Phase 2.

It is not... Never was and never has been.

[Mtatransit]

1 hour ago, Nitro said:

The proposed stops would only slow the speed of the EC Trains because they would be stalled behind Metro North Trains. Amtrak & Metro North Railroad both stop at Yonkers with AMTRAK owning most of the ROW except for most of the stations which are owned by the Metro North Railroad. AMTRAK Trains serve as the super express from NYC to Poughkeepsie. Merging the Metro North Railroad into Penn Station will only cause merging conflicts/delays=bottlenecks. Also you have to consider the logistics of Penn Station. Penn Station uses overrunning 3rd rail while the Metro North Railroad & AMTRAK use underrunning 3rd rail. Which goes back to the days of the Pennsylvania Railroad & the New York Central Railroad before the merger of 

Penn Central/CONRAIL/AMTRAK.

They stop at Poughkeepsie for the benefit of people coming from further north. The primary purpose of Amtrak is not to serve passengers between Poughkeepsie and NYC. I am also pretty sure MNR owns the track from Grand Central up to Poughkeepsie as well

[Lawrence St]

4 hours ago, xD4nn said:

It is not... Never was and never has been.

It is…

[xD4nn]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

It is…

It's not though....

[Lawrence St]

3 hours ago, xD4nn said:

It's not though....

But it is. How you gonna tell me and I work here 😂

[xD4nn]

10 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

But it is. How you gonna tell me and I work here 😂

How you gonna say it exists when it doesn't exist anywhere on paper. The only thing mentioning Hudson Line to Penn is some troll map from a satire news article.

[Trainmaster5]

Didn’t the Governor and the  announce and produce a map showing Penn Station access from the Hudson line with stops at  West 125th St and somewhere in the West Seventies a while back ? Just asking. Carry on .

[Lex]

22 minutes ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Didn’t the Governor and the  announce and produce a map showing Penn Station access from the Hudson line with stops at  West 125th St and somewhere in the West Seventies a while back ? Just asking. Carry on .

You're thinking of 62nd Street.

The Empire Connection aspect isn't currently funded, but it did undergo at least a bit of consideration. It'll probably undergo more consideration once the New Haven connection is operational.

[xD4nn]

7 hours ago, Trainmaster5 said:

Didn’t the Governor and the  announce and produce a map showing Penn Station access from the Hudson line with stops at  West 125th St and somewhere in the West Seventies a while back ? Just asking. Carry on .

That was the map from the satire news company...

[46Dover]

On 8/26/2023 at 12:49 AM, Lawrence St said:

But it is. How you gonna tell me and I work here 😂

Oh this is news to me.  Get with me offline please 😁

[46Dover]

19 hours ago, xD4nn said:

How you gonna say it exists when it doesn't exist anywhere on paper. The only thing mentioning Hudson Line to Penn is some troll map from a satire news article.

Now that’s disappointing.  That it even made it to publication for all the world to see is disgusting