Mayor de Blasio to Propose Streetcar Line Linking Brooklyn and Queens 0

[BDNQ2345]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/nyregion/mayor-de-blasio-to-propose-streetcar-line-linking-brooklyn-and-queens.html?referer=http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1384015

[RailRunRob]

Could work! 

[Union Tpke]

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/02/04/nyregion/mayor-de-blasio-to-propose-streetcar-line-linking-brooklyn-and-queens.html?referer=http://www.subchat.com/read.asp?Id=1384015

 

I like this proposal but there are greater transit needs. Perhaps funding the second phase of the SAS or THE RBB!

[N6 Limited]

I could see it working, poor train.

[Transitfan007]

I could see it working, poor train.

Yep poor , the yuppies would camp out waiting for opening day...lol

[MHV9218]

I like this proposal but there are greater transit needs. Perhaps funding the second phase of the SAS or THE RBB!

 

The SAS is a radically, radically more expensive project with significant federal involvement. And the RBB is probably less important, on a practical scale.

[Around the Horn]

The SAS is a radically, radically more expensive project with significant federal involvement. And the RBB is probably less important, on a practical scale.

$2B could get you the to Springfield Blvd or the to Springfield Gardens... I think that's worth it...

[Union Tpke]

$2B could get you the to Springfield Blvd or the to Springfield Gardens... I think that's worth it...

 

those are much more useful projects! The latter would certainly help people in transit starving Southeast Queens and it would also provide an opportunity to get rid of the horrible terminal that is Jamaica Center.

 

[RailRunRob]

to Southeast Queens would definitely help alot of people and wouldn't be that hard to implement.

[BDNQ2345]

those are much more useful projects! The latter would certainly help people in transit starving Southeast Queens and it would also provide an opportunity to get rid of the horrible terminal that is Jamaica Center.

 

Their's another map that extended to Braclay Ctr

[NewFlyer 230]

Would such line like this take many years to complete? It seems like it would be much easier to build than a subway line.

[bobtehpanda]

The SAS is a radically, radically more expensive project with significant federal involvement. And the RBB is probably less important, on a practical scale.

 

RBB is fairly important; there is no good Brooklyn-Queens link (I question the value of the Queens-Bronx segment), nor is there a good crosstown option in that section of Brooklyn anyways.

 

Why should we be footing the bill for a transplant's or property developer's wet dream instead of serving the local commuters who have been paying local taxes towards the MTA since 1968?

[Tokkemon]

The dumb is great with this one.

[MysteriousBtrain]

Fox 5 talked about this a few minutes ago, and one of the main problems that were pointed out is rhe width of the streets and if streets would be able to accommodate the deblasio version of an NYC Lightrail. I also wonder how the streets will take this line, especially Downtown Brooklyn.

[itmaybeokay]

I mean, my initial reactions to this are two-fold: 

 

1) The line strongly duplicates the G train. Wouldn't improved service on the G line help too? 

 

2) Streetcars are going to be stuck in traffic with regular cars, no? 

[ttcsubwayfan]

2) Streetcars are going to be stuck in traffic with regular cars, no? 

 

Well, there are two schools of thought when it comes to this. Either they can go for the European styling, which, on narrower streets, involves having a single lane for traffic, and a single lane for streetcars, and no parking, and having a dedicated right of way with stop islands on wider streets. There is also the option to run it in a ROW on either side of the street, but that's dependent on whether there are any buildings there and whether private property owners are cool with a streetcar ROW cutting across their property.

 

Or you can go down the Toronto route, in which streetcars are fully "integrated" with traffic and it can take years and years to actually get anywhere useful. Many people have tried to suggest the European 1 lane for traffic, 1 lane for streetcars concept, but the motorists and merchants have had hissy fits every time this was brought up, and I don't expect New York to be very different in that sense.

 

So, unless you go for option 1, a streetcar would be as good as useless, and the money would be much better spent elsewhere.

 

Also, I'm calling bullshit on the conceptual drawings Union Turnpike posted right now. A streetcar in the rightmost lane would not be able to easily make a right turn onto a different street, as streetcars have a far larger turning circle than buses and cars do. If they do build a streetcar, expect it in the left hand lane.

[LTA1992]

People are saying the width of the streets are an issue like parking spaces need to be taken. My god people, look outside the United effing States for once. This isn't even a new thing to this city. For the sections where streets are "too small", run the trains in mixed traffic and aggressively enforce a no double parking rule. The only parking spaces lost would be at the areas with stations.

 

And a streetcar in the right lane definitely COULD make a right turn onto another street. Again, LOOK ELSEWHERE.

 

A little research will not hurt at all.

[ttcsubwayfan]

 

 

People are saying the width of the streets are an issue like parking spaces need to be taken. My god people, look outside the United effing States for once. This isn't even a new thing to this city. For the sections where streets are "too small", run the trains in mixed traffic and aggressively enforce a no double parking rule. The only parking spaces lost would be at the areas with stations.

 

And a streetcar in the right lane definitely COULD make a right turn onto another street. Again, LOOK ELSEWHERE.

 

A little research will not hurt at all.

 

Then why is it that no system that runs in mixed traffic has done so? In all the years that streetcars have run in Toronto, no one has ever decided running them in the right hand lane was a feasible idea. A streetcar can make a right turn, yes. But only if it has sufficient space to do so within the intersection. Again, a streetcar has a larger turning circle, which is why you don't see them running in the right hand lanes in downtown Toronto, or almost anywhere for that matter, and you won't see them running in the right hand lanes in New York, should this project go ahead.

 

If you don't believe me, you need look only to your northern neighbors in Toronto, who have some of the tighest curves:

 

 

Look at how close the turning tracks are to the sidewalk. Don't tell me that they would be able to make this turn, without making the curve even sharper, if they were in the right hand lane?

 

Also, parking is only part of the issue. Even if there is no parking to contend with, period, the streetcar will get stuck in mixed traffic. See: highways. No parking to be found there, and yet traffic screeches to a halt frequently. The only way to make a streetcar run efficiently is to do the European segregated lane idea, but the roadway will lose capacity for motor vehicles, and to suggest such a thing in car oriented North America would be nothing short of political suicide.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Wide streets should not be an excuse for streetcars not to be implemented.  I lived in Florence, Italy, which has some of the narrowest streets around.  In both Milan and Rome, there are streetcars and they are quite effective in moving people around.  Surely something could be worked out here.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Of course, many European cities do have very efficient streetcar systems. A narrow street is not, in and of itself, a reason why streetcars shouldn't be implemented, but unless you want to piss off a lot of motorists, no one is going to suggest segregated lanes for the streetcars. And if you have a streetcar running in mixed traffic, it is slow, painful and takes forever to get anywhere. With all that, you might as well not bother at all.

 

Or the alternative is to close off streets to traffic all together, which is also a European thing, as seen in the following views:

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Obchodn%C3%A1,+811+06+Bratislava,+Slovakia/@48.1472927,17.1098793,3a,75y,43.45h,86.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxyBttYBi5P8j1HtmPYiGBQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DxyBttYBi5P8j1HtmPYiGBQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D53.751545%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x476c8944cf0f91f9:0x17a42d96b2f80cfd

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@48.1448961,17.1048009,3a,75y,49.07h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHLho7u6P5tZ78jTgIcXawA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/N%C3%A1m.+I.+P.+Pavlova,+120+00+Praha+2,+Czech+Republic/@50.0818642,14.4255946,3a,75y,42.63h,86.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNnEzl4SMynHzl3gOA1bLMQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DNnEzl4SMynHzl3gOA1bLMQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D188.35628%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x470b948c6b54df3f:0xc73133c5db489428

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@59.9108837,10.7492343,3a,41y,37.26h,78.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1DrEQBC5bt9lPYVr-RKSBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

But those ideas wouldn't get much support either.

 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Of course, many European cities do have very efficient streetcar systems. A narrow street is not, in and of itself, a reason why streetcars shouldn't be implemented, but unless you want to piss off a lot of motorists, no one is going to suggest segregated lanes for the streetcars. And if you have a streetcar running in mixed traffic, it is slow, painful and takes forever to get anywhere. With all that, you might as well not bother at all.

 

Or the alternative is to close off streets to traffic all together, which is also a European thing, as seen in the following views:

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Obchodn%C3%A1,+811+06+Bratislava,+Slovakia/@48.1472927,17.1098793,3a,75y,43.45h,86.83t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sxyBttYBi5P8j1HtmPYiGBQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo0.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DxyBttYBi5P8j1HtmPYiGBQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D53.751545%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x476c8944cf0f91f9:0x17a42d96b2f80cfd

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@48.1448961,17.1048009,3a,75y,49.07h,87.28t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sHLho7u6P5tZ78jTgIcXawA!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/N%C3%A1m.+I.+P.+Pavlova,+120+00+Praha+2,+Czech+Republic/@50.0818642,14.4255946,3a,75y,42.63h,86.27t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1sNnEzl4SMynHzl3gOA1bLMQ!2e0!6s%2F%2Fgeo2.ggpht.com%2Fcbk%3Fpanoid%3DNnEzl4SMynHzl3gOA1bLMQ%26output%3Dthumbnail%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26thumb%3D2%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D188.35628%26pitch%3D0!7i13312!8i6656!4m2!3m1!1s0x470b948c6b54df3f:0xc73133c5db489428

 

https://www.google.ca/maps/@59.9108837,10.7492343,3a,41y,37.26h,78.9t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s1DrEQBC5bt9lPYVr-RKSBw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656!6m1!1e1

 

But those ideas wouldn't get much support either.

If anything, I would think that the de Blasio administration would look abroad at firms for suggestions of who can come up with the best designs for such a project.  I've been working with the city on one project that is using a Scandinavian firm (Danish) with a proven track record of planning and developing large scale projects, along with some local firms as well, but overall, Europe has a history of using street cars successfully, and they should be looked at because they have a model that efficiently utilizes and maximizes a limited amount of space on their streets.  In addition to such a plan, the city MUST do something to curb car usage.  It is simply out of control and it needs to be regulated.  

[ttcsubwayfan]

I agree. The Europeans have a lot to offer as far as transportation solutions go, and there is no shortage of ideas which could be utilized here. But as long as the tail (car) wags the dog (city), we can forget about having private streetcar lanes.

 

I hardly think a single streetcar line would do much to curb car usage, but that being said, we do have to start somewhere, and separating the vehicles from other traffic is a good stepping stone. Streetcars in mixed traffic hasn't been a viable solution since the 1950s.

[Around the Horn]

those are much more useful projects! The latter would certainly help people in transit starving Southeast Queens and it would also provide an opportunity to get rid of the horrible terminal that is Jamaica Center.

 

Are they really gonna call this thing the (X)?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I agree. The Europeans have a lot to offer as far as transportation solutions go, and there is no shortage of ideas which could be utilized here. But as long as the tail (car) wags the dog (city), we can forget about having private streetcar lanes.

 

I hardly think a single streetcar line would do much to curb car usage, but that being said, we do have to start somewhere, and separating the vehicles from other traffic is a good stepping stone. Streetcars in mixed traffic hasn't been a viable solution since the 1950s.

Aside from that it would be good for NYC to institute something that we had when I lived in Italy.  Milan suffers terribly from smog and so there were days in which folks were heavily encouraged to leave their cars at home and use public transit.  They did that with a tiered system.  That's why I support that here because for those who see the car as "the thing" the subway is not going to do it.  You need something that is acceptable for those folks.  A street car that was clean and offered some sort of tiered pricing could work.

[TheNewYorkElevated]

I mean, my initial reactions to this are two-fold:

 

1) The line strongly duplicates the G train. Wouldn't improved service on the G line help too?

 

2) Streetcars are going to be stuck in traffic with regular cars, no?

 

Here's a simple answer.

 

1) Yes. These are prosperous neighborhoods (Williamsburg, Greenpoint, etc.) the and this proposed streetcar line go through so it makes sense to improve service.

2) I don't see that happening. We would mainly see something that's in use in Toronto (one lane dedicated to vehicular traffic, the other for streetcar service).