Both sides of the tracks strike back

[BreeddekalbL]

read and debate 

http://www.qchron.com/editions/queenswide/both-sides-of-the-tracks-strike-back/article_6103101c-437c-5742-9e26-8c6a04f167f6.html

 

koslowitz has no right to dictate to the rockaway people whats good for them she is beholden to the invader hipsters and the trust for public land   bus service is not enough

[Wallyhorse]

This is more like a cover for the people Koslowiz represents in my opinion being fearful of people "not their kind" showing up in droves and driving prices down, not to mention those who (as previously noted in a lot of places) may have illegally extended their land that they fear losing if the line were re-activated (that they had no business having in the first place).  I still think many of them think of the subways as they were in the 1970's and early-to-mid '80s when it was a much different system and crime was much more rampant and possibly being victims of crime back then, not realizing it's a different time and place (or in some cases children of such victims of that time who are very closed-minded.

The part about losing a little league field is unfortunate, but that is something that can be worked around for the greater good.  

[BreeddekalbL]

did you see this part?

"The councilwoman noted that there is already a Long Island Rail Road line that runs through her district that “causes my constituents grief to no end,” and that adding another one would only exacerbate the problem."

 

her constituents are very ignorant regarding moving towards the train also the train is there and why does she want to behead a big LIRR artery?! she wants to convert that into parkland, i also want to ask i wonder if she wants to join those jagoffs who wanted to shut down sunnyside yard?

[Lance]

Probably. Went from NIMBY to BANANA (Build Absolutely Nothing Anywhere Near Anyone). She is right about one thing though. Reactivating the Rockaway Beach line for any type of rail service will take some time.

[Around the Horn]

This is more like a cover for the people Koslowiz represents in my opinion being fearful of people "not their kind" showing up in droves and driving prices down, not to mention those who (as previously noted in a lot of places) may have illegally extended their land that they fear losing if the line were re-activated (that they had no business having in the first place).  I still think many of them think of the subways as they were in the 1970's and early-to-mid '80s when it was a much different system and crime was much more rampant and possibly being victims of crime back then, not realizing it's a different time and place (or in some cases children of such victims of that time who are very closed-minded.

EXACTLY. Got it in one.

[Union Tpke]

“This short-sightedness is depriving thousands of Queens families of the transportation access they desperately need, and ignores the explosive growth our borough has seen in recent years,” Goldfeder continued. “If it were up to naysayers like Councilmember Koslowitz, our borough would never grow, never provide new opportunities for families to thrive.”

 

Responding to the assemblyman’s comments, Koslowitz said in an emailed statement, “It is unfortunate that Assemblyman Goldfeder is resorting to name calling. I represent the interests of the people of the 29th Councilmanic District, who elected me to serve.”

Councilmember Koslowitz, I think that what he is saying is an accurate representation of your view on this position.

 

In her close to 500-word missive sent out two weeks after the MTA agreed to conduct a feasibility study for reactivating the defunct rail line for trains, Koslowitz said, “spending hundreds of millions of dollars to study and then reconstruct this outdated rail line which last ran more than 50 years ago is not an option that should be considered.”

What would you suggest? The stupid Woodhaven Boulevard SBS that isn't true Bus Rapid Transit, but instead is like putting lipstick on a pig. It appears to be a great idea on paper, but in reality it just is a way to appease the NIMBYs. What is needed is true rail.

 

The councilwoman noted that there is already a Long Island Rail Road line that runs through her district that “causes my constituents grief to no end,” and that adding another one would only exacerbate the problem.

You mean the LIRR Main Line, which is the backbone of the Long Island Rail Road, which allows Nassau and Suffolk Counties to be connected to Manhattan so that people can get to and from work, to visit family, and to get to school. This is selfishness. While your constituents might be annoyed by the noise, the rail line allows other people to live a better life. I bet you would get rid of the rail line if it was up to you. Also, these people moved to Forest Hills and Rego Park knowing that there was an active and heavily used rail line right in your backyards. It is not like you were living here and suddenly a rail line was built. They bought their homes knowing that a rail line was here. They made the decision to be near the rail line.

 

“Reactivation would have a devastating impact upon the people of the 29th Council District, and that is why I steadfastly oppose this disastrous and dangerous plan,” she said in her statement.

Going back to the argument I was making earlier, these people living in Rego Park and Forest Hills bought their homes along an abandoned railroad right-of-way. If there is a railroad ROW, there is a good chance that it would be reactivated. It is not out fault that these people were ignorant when they were deciding to live along the ROW. There definitely would be more noise if the rail line would be reactivated. However, more people would benefit from the line's reactivation then the amount of people who would suffer with an increase of noise. What do you people expect? It is New York City. It is a noisy place. This line would allow people in Rego Park, Woodhaven, Glendale and Ozone Park to have quicker commutes, allowing them to ditch their cars, or use the train instead of the bus. In addition, the line would provide another option for the people living in the Rockaways, whom have long commutes. Currently it is hard to get the Rockaways from other parts of Queens and this line would shorten the travel time, and it would allow people to avoid going through Manhattan. The line, whether served by Long Island Rail Road or the subway would allow residents of the Rockaways to get to Midtown Manhattan in less time. This saving of time allows people to have more time to be with family and friends. It allows people to have more leisure time and it reduces stress. This additional time can be used for going to buy stuff from the local corner store and contributing to the local economy. Having a rail line in a community makes the community more accessible. It would benefit local businesses as it would be easier for people to get there. Property values would go up, and if these people really want to leave because of the rail line, they would get even more money from selling their homes. 

 

Putting a train back on the line, which would connect Rego Park — part of Koslowitz’s district — to Ozone Park and the Rockaways — which Goldfeder represents — would require the taking of land in parts of the councilwoman’s district, including the Fleet Street baseball fields used by the Forest Hills Little League.

 

It would take over the land where the Fleet Street baseball fields are. This cannot be disputed. However, more people will benefit from the line's reactivation than the few people who would benefit by maintaining the status quo.

 

“Residents of Southern Queens should never have their interests put against the interests of those people living in other Queens neighborhoods,” Koslowitz said.

If you were being consistent then the Long Island Railroad shouldn't be running through your community because it does little to benefit Forest Hills as there are already subway stations in your district. This is a democracy. These projects would benefit the many not the few NIMBYs who are making it hard for New York City to grow.

 

She threw her support behind other transportation improvements for those living in Goldfeder’s district.

“That is why I actively support the introduction of bus routes to the nearest subway station, expansion of express bus service into Manhattan and subsidies to support full-time ferry service for Southern Queens commuters looking for new and better transportation options that have an actual opportunity to reach service sooner rather than later,” Koslowitz noted.

They have express bus service. It isn't affordable for everyone and it is infrequent and it doesn't transform a community like a rail line does. Ferry service only operates along the waterfront and isn't quick.

 

The councilwoman isn’t so sure of that.

She pointed out that, even if the MTA decides to go ahead with putting trains back on the line, there will still need to be environmental impact studies, preliminary designs done and property acquisitions worked out.

“Indeed, another 50 years might pass before all this happens,” she said. “Focusing on other actual and achievable transportation alternatives would be more helpful.”

Yes, it will take 50 years if people like you stand in the way of the project.

Koslowitz has expressed support in the past for using the right-of-way where the train used to be as a 3.5-mile stretch of parkland known as the QueensWay.

If you have read my other responses, you know what I have to say about this garbage proposal.

[BreeddekalbL]

apparently her ideas of improving transportation for goldfeder's district is more bus to subway stations expanding express bus service and that ferry that deblasio wants

[Around the Horn]

^Damn. Union hitting hard with the cold hard facts... +1

[Union Tpke]

thanks!

 

^Damn. Union hitting hard with the cold hard facts... +1

[Trainmaster5]

I'd like to add my two cents to the councilwoman and any other resident of Downstate New York. In 90% or more of these cases where resident's complaints are brought up I would like the people who are not affected to stop and look at the big picture. The railroad tracks, El tracks, subway tracks, train yards, and bus (trolley) depots were there before you purchased your home. If you didn't do your research about the neighborhood and it's surroundings too bad. In the case of the LIRR Rockaway Branch ROW even though the line hasn't been in operation for 50 years, 10 years, or 100 years, was there anything written that stated this line will never be re-activated ? If there wasn't I don't think some of these people have a valid complaint or a leg to stand on if it went to the courts. This councilwoman and some of her constituents seem to want the Woodhaven SBS and a park over the ROW re-activation and electric trains. ADD more surface busing while slowing down ALL modes of surface transportation so we can build an environmentally healthy park in the same area? I remember reading about another group of Queens residents complaining about train noise in the area of the LIRR Long Island City station and yard. People who purchased condos with a view of the train yard complaining about noise? Give me a break. Carry on.

[checkmatechamp13]

 

“That is why I actively support the introduction of bus routes to the nearest subway station, expansion of express bus service into Manhattan and subsidies to support full-time ferry service for Southern Queens commuters looking for new and better transportation options that have an actual opportunity to reach service sooner rather than later,” Koslowitz noted.

 

Bus routes to the nearest subway station, that's what we have now, genius and we see how well that's working out.   Aside from that, the Rockaways is mostly within walking distance of the train anyway. It's just the long travel times on the train itself (and the opening and closing of that Broad Channel drawbridge, which is one of the few legitimate arguments for SBS vs. rail)

 

(Obviously directed at the Councilwoman, not you, Union Tpke). You hit the nail right on the head, bro.

 

And you have to also think in terms of efficiency. If you have the market large enough to justify rail vehicles, rail moves people more efficiently than ferries or buses (local or express)

[NY1635]

Why are the NIMBYs supporting the idea to convert the abandoned rail into a park? There's plenty of parks in Queens, including one somewhere along Woodhaven Blvd.

[GojiMet86]

...Because they are NIMBYs.

[BreeddekalbL]

they need to hold a debate for this and i would easily wipe the floor with this lady 

[46Dover]

^Damn. Union hitting hard with the cold hard facts... +1

And he did it in B35 style too lol

[checkmatechamp13]

Why are the NIMBYs supporting the idea to convert the abandoned rail into a park? There's plenty of parks in Queens, including one somewhere along Woodhaven Blvd.

 

The friggin' ROW passes through a park!

 

Hey, I heard you like parks, so we put a park in your park. 

[JFK Depot]

This is a tad off this topic but still bringing back a line...

I would reopen up the Jamaica Lines access to the Manhattan Bridge

Reopen up that belmouth... Discontinue the Orange M and bring back the Brown M

Have the M go back down 4th Ave via Manhattan Bridge

It would come out of Chambers and make the sharp turn right onto the Broadway side of the Bridge outside of Canal St

I know Queens Blvd riders wouldn't like this but in return they could bring back the V to 2nd Ave to hush up QBL riders

M still services a purpose and helps an underserved 4th Ave local

QBL still gets it 1 seat 6th Ave local still

Everyone wins

[SubwayGuy]

Why are the NIMBYs supporting the idea to convert the abandoned rail into a park? There's plenty of parks in Queens, including one somewhere along Woodhaven Blvd.

 

Because conversion into a park would kill the possibility of the line ever being reactivated.

 

(See...what would happen if someone suggested an elevated line that ran through parts of Central Park)

 

...Which is why that cannot be allowed to happen.

[onthe1train]

This is a tad off this topic but still bringing back a line...

I would reopen up the Jamaica Lines access to the Manhattan Bridge

Reopen up that belmouth... Discontinue the Orange M and bring back the Brown M

Have the M go back down 4th Ave via Manhattan Bridge

It would come out of Chambers and make the sharp turn right onto the Broadway side of the Bridge outside of Canal St

I know Queens Blvd riders wouldn't like this but in return they could bring back the V to 2nd Ave to hush up QBL riders

M still services a purpose and helps an underserved 4th Ave local

QBL still gets it 1 seat 6th Ave local still

Everyone wins

 

If you're going to bring back the V why bother with all that work to reconfigure the bridge? Just reroute the M via Montague and call it a day. Your plan completely disrupts Broadway riders between Brooklyn and Manhattan.

[bobtehpanda]

This is a tad off this topic but still bringing back a line...

I would reopen up the Jamaica Lines access to the Manhattan Bridge

Reopen up that belmouth... Discontinue the Orange M and bring back the Brown M

Have the M go back down 4th Ave via Manhattan Bridge

It would come out of Chambers and make the sharp turn right onto the Broadway side of the Bridge outside of Canal St

I know Queens Blvd riders wouldn't like this but in return they could bring back the V to 2nd Ave to hush up QBL riders

M still services a purpose and helps an underserved 4th Ave local

QBL still gets it 1 seat 6th Ave local still

Everyone wins

 

So, tank combined M-V ridership for the sole purpose of getting an M through Montague?

[T to Dyre Avenue]

This is a tad off this topic but still bringing back a line...

I would reopen up the Jamaica Lines access to the Manhattan Bridge

Reopen up that belmouth... Discontinue the Orange M and bring back the Brown M

Have the M go back down 4th Ave via Manhattan Bridge

It would come out of Chambers and make the sharp turn right onto the Broadway side of the Bridge outside of Canal St

I know Queens Blvd riders wouldn't like this but in return they could bring back the V to 2nd Ave to hush up QBL riders

M still services a purpose and helps an underserved 4th Ave local

QBL still gets it 1 seat 6th Ave local still

Everyone wins

Actually no, not everyone wins because line ridership would drop like a rock if the reverts back to the pre-2010 separate and services, which in turn would cause many of those riders to transfer either to the at Myrtle-Wyckoff or the at Essex-Delancey. You'd also once again have trains delaying , and trains at 36th St and running empty along the West End Line. Sounds to me like it would do more harm than good to revert back to the old separate services.

 

Also, what does any of this have to do with putting trains back on the Rockaway Beach Branch? Would there happen to be something in your plan about running the train on the Rockaway Branch?

[SubwayGuy]

If you want to send one of those trains to Brooklyn, send the J.

 

Leave the M alone. It's fine as is.

[JFK Depot]

Actually no, not everyone wins because line ridership would drop like a rock if the reverts back to the pre-2010 separate and services, which in turn would cause many of those riders to transfer either to the at Myrtle-Wyckoff or the at Essex-Delancey. You'd also once again have trains delaying , and trains at 36th St and running empty along the West End Line. Sounds to me like it would do more harm than good to revert back to the old separate services.

 

 

Also, what does any of this have to do with putting trains back on the Rockaway Beach Branch? Would there happen to be something in your plan about running the train on the Rockaway Branch?

#1 If the Nassau Line as direct access to the Broadway side of the Bridge then how does that effect the 6th Ave side ?

 

#2 if you look at the headways on the R.... The return of the M to help out local service isn't such a BAD idea...

 

#3 regardless of whatever you'll still have people getting off at major transfer points... So your Myrtle-Wyckoff and Essex-Delancy St argument isn't really that valid...

 

Look at the track maps... Then study the headways and once you do that... My argument kinda of makes sense

4th Ave is underserved by the R... No matter how you wanna put it

[RollOver]

#1 If the Nassau Line as direct access to the Broadway side of the Bridge then how does that effect the 6th Ave side ?

 

#2 if you look at the headways on the R.... The return of the M to help out local service isn't such a BAD idea...

 

#3 regardless of whatever you'll still have people getting off at major transfer points... So your Myrtle-Wyckoff and Essex-Delancy St argument isn't really that valid...

 

Look at the track maps... Then study the headways and once you do that... My argument kinda of makes sense

4th Ave is underserved by the R... No matter how you wanna put it

 

I think I remember that guy T to Dyre Avenue saying that the local 4th Avenue stations south of 36th Street need more service, not just the ones north of 36th Street...

 

So, therefore, sending the to Bay Parkway makes little sense. It was cut from Lower Manhattan and South Brooklyn back in 2010 for a reason. Almost no one used it and almost everybody wanted the express train via the bridge to Chinatown and Midtown. Also, isn't the 6 to 8 minute rush hour headways on the  enough (unless the line is "always late and behind schedule" as everyone says...)? I doubt middays, evenings, and weekends (when the is suppose to run every 10 minutes), the 4th Avenue Local needs more service at those times either. Generally, seeing how useless the old   was, I still don't even think there's a need for a second 4th Avenue Local service...yet at least...

 

As for your #1, it's obviously because riders on the Myrtle Avenue and Broadway-Brooklyn lines have direct 6th Avenue service, so why should you now have them waste more time transferring to other lines (which are already overcrowded as they are) to reach Midtown? This isn't just 6th Avenue, we're talking about Chelsea and Midtown in general. The needs to stay buried and leave the current as it is.

[RollOver]

I meant to say that's part of the reason why sending the  back to Bay Parkway makes little sense. Sorry about that. It's too late for me to edit it.