East New York Posted April 10, 2011 Share #151 Posted April 10, 2011 They did one bus... and its that a waste? Explain why they swapped out that engine, and you will have the answer to your question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Up Front Posted April 10, 2011 Share #152 Posted April 10, 2011 Did a specific company make the cast iron rims I see on the RTS all the time? They appear on trucks as well and I like how they seem to go with the simple white and blue stripe scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 10, 2011 Share #153 Posted April 10, 2011 Screw that, bring them back home where they were raised all their lives But seriously, why were they retired first? Something about the engines not meeting up with EPA regulations I think. I'm not 100% sure about it so dont quote me on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted April 17, 2011 Share #154 Posted April 17, 2011 When those M11Es get repaired, they should send them to Quill! (not going to happen, I know) They know how to take care of them buses for an extended period of time, prime example, the 8600s & the New Looks they had way back in the early/mid-90s, they were the last to get retired! RIP, 8600s I still feel they would've been much better than what JFK has with their O5s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R42 M Train Posted April 17, 2011 Share #155 Posted April 17, 2011 What is so special about the 8600s? and why are they so missed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cait Sith Posted April 17, 2011 Share #156 Posted April 17, 2011 What is so special about the 8600s? and why are they so missed? Pretty much the best TMCs to ever run in revenue service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T J Trainman Posted April 17, 2011 Share #157 Posted April 17, 2011 Agreed!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted April 23, 2011 Share #158 Posted April 23, 2011 Something about the engines not meeting up with EPA regulations I think. I'm not 100% sure about it so dont quote me on it. In a way yes. But mostly because it was their time. They are definitely missed. I still remember saying to myself back in '04 that I could never see ENY or MJQ being willing to trade those buses out. Tey didn't either! The 8600's served those two depots for 16 years flawlessly. I think only one bus was pulled from service. All the '94 series of TMC's may go down in history as some of their best. And not just MTA's, but the ones from Green Lines, Boston, Detroit, Fairfax, and Stocton, CA as well. Some of them are still in service to this day. RIP, 8600s I still feel they would've been much better than what JFK has with their O5s. Correct, and JFK had a couple of them before they went to ECH IIRC. I think they should have used those alongside the Bee's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R32 3838 Posted May 4, 2011 Share #159 Posted May 4, 2011 if the RTS high floor made a comeback, How much I bet Orion would Bring Back the Orion V. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted May 6, 2011 Share #160 Posted May 6, 2011 if the RTS high floor made a comeback, How much I bet Orion would Bring Back the Orion V. That's not gonna happen. The Orion V model was discontinued, which is why we have Orion VIIs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted May 6, 2011 Share #161 Posted May 6, 2011 That's not gonna happen. The Orion V model was discontinued, which is why we have Orion VIIs the Orion v's weren't discontinued until 2 years ago. we have orion vii's b/c TA was duped into thinking that they were buying a futuristic more fuel efficient "Hybrid" bus which was not the case. in my opinion, TA should have just kept ordering OV's and RTS's up until they were discontinued. there is no way they are going to get the same amount of life out of these new buses as they did with the old ones. They would have saved money in the long run as well...to do a GOH on an OV or an RTS cost about 30k. throw in a repower with a current emissions certified engine, another 100k...to me spending 130k on a tried and true platform makes more sense than spending 500k on an unproven bus... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted May 9, 2011 Share #162 Posted May 9, 2011 The MTA wasn't 'duped' - they have been actively trying to stay in the forefront of the development of new transit bus technologies. That is why they bought the hybrids, it is why they spent millions on the Design Line buses, and it is why they now are buying 90-bus test fleets from multiple builders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 10, 2011 Share #163 Posted May 10, 2011 the Orion v's weren't discontinued until 2 years ago. we have orion vii's b/c TA was duped into thinking that they were buying a futuristic more fuel efficient "Hybrid" bus which was not the case. in my opinion, TA should have just kept ordering OV's and RTS's up until they were discontinued. there is no way they are going to get the same amount of life out of these new buses as they did with the old ones. They would have saved money in the long run as well...to do a GOH on an OV or an RTS cost about 30k. throw in a repower with a current emissions certified engine, another 100k...to me spending 130k on a tried and true platform makes more sense than spending 500k on an unproven bus... I agree. The TA should have gotten like 50 of them. It would have been a good investment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova RTS 9147 Posted May 10, 2011 Share #164 Posted May 10, 2011 the Orion v's weren't discontinued until 2 years ago. we have orion vii's b/c TA was duped into thinking that they were buying a futuristic more fuel efficient "Hybrid" bus which was not the case. in my opinion, TA should have just kept ordering OV's and RTS's up until they were discontinued. there is no way they are going to get the same amount of life out of these new buses as they did with the old ones. They would have saved money in the long run as well...to do a GOH on an OV or an RTS cost about 30k. throw in a repower with a current emissions certified engine, another 100k...to me spending 130k on a tried and true platform makes more sense than spending 500k on an unproven bus... Though I agree that we should have ordered more Orion Vs (instead of buying Bee-Line's has-bens), what will this GOH entail asides from a repowering? Changing engines/transmissions shouldn't be that expensive.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted May 10, 2011 Share #165 Posted May 10, 2011 Though I agree that we should have ordered more Orion Vs (instead of buying Bee-Line's has-bens), what will this GOH entail asides from a repowering? Changing engines/transmissions shouldn't be that expensive.... General Overhaul includes: paint and body work, replacing all suspension components, replacing the floor if need, cutting out and replacing the rear and front bulkheads, new rear differential and axles, and wheels and tires. i saw the work order for an artic that just got back from its 8 year GOH and it right around 40k for the whole thing minus the repower. and if the repower just includes rebuilt units than its not that expensive. but if they are gonna use a brand new engine and a brand new trans...that will put the price into that 100k range.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 10, 2011 Share #166 Posted May 10, 2011 Though I agree that we should have ordered more Orion Vs (instead of buying Bee-Line's has-bens), what will this GOH entail asides from a repowering? Changing engines/transmissions shouldn't be that expensive.... The RTS' won't even need to be re-powered. How many engines sound this good after more than 14 years and a half million miles???:cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted May 10, 2011 Share #167 Posted May 10, 2011 The RTS' won't even need to be re-powered. How many engines sound this good after more than 14 years and a half million miles???:cool: most RTS's were already repowered in the late 90's and early 2000's. most of them, when they were brand new, were powered by the Detroit Diesel 6V71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 10, 2011 Share #168 Posted May 10, 2011 most RTS's were already repowered in the late 90's and early 2000's. most of them, when they were brand new, were powered by the Detroit Diesel 6V71 Those however were TMC's, and GMC's. This is a Nova. None of those were repowered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted May 16, 2011 Share #169 Posted May 16, 2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tlcohen Posted June 10, 2011 Share #170 Posted June 10, 2011 By chance, I recently met a former, long-time exec with Calgary Transit. I asked him why the RTS was never built in Canada. He said that in 1977/78, the RTS was more expensive than the fishbowl. US transit operators were getting Federal funds, so they were OK with the more expensive model. Canadian operators were not getting any Federal money from their government. So, Calgary and other operators were not willing to pony up the extra dough for the RTS. Besides, they were quite happy with their fishbowls. So, GM Canada had very little market for the RTS. They continued to produce the fishbowl, and later the Classic. Has anyone heard this before? Any other reasons the RTS wasn't produced up north?:confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted June 10, 2011 Share #171 Posted June 10, 2011 There wasn't a market for the RTS up there until Nova took over. When they discontinued the TDS Classic, they offered the the RTS in it's place. The final assembly on these buses was performed in the Nova plant in Quebec, so they got a nice amount of Canadian operators to purchase the bus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailBus63 Posted June 10, 2011 Share #172 Posted June 10, 2011 By chance, I recently met a former, long-time exec with Calgary Transit. I asked him why the RTS was never built in Canada. He said that in 1977/78, the RTS was more expensive than the fishbowl. US transit operators were getting Federal funds, so they were OK with the more expensive model. Canadian operators were not getting any Federal money from their government. So, Calgary and other operators were not willing to pony up the extra dough for the RTS. Besides, they were quite happy with their fishbowls. So, GM Canada had very little market for the RTS. They continued to produce the fishbowl, and later the Classic. Has anyone heard this before? Any other reasons the RTS wasn't produced up north?:confused: That’s pretty much the story. The Feds had pushed the Advanced Design Buses like the RTS and the 870 (and the Transbus program before that), so they had an interest in trying to convince U.S. transit agencies to buy these new buses. These buses were more expensive, though, so UMTA used a document called the White Book which stipulated how bids involving federal funds had to be conducted, and it allowed certain offsets that helped make GMC and Grumman Flxible more competitive aginst manufacturers like GM-Canada and Flyer that otherwise had a lower bus price for their models. Canadian agencies went strictly by low bid, though, so the RTS and 870 simply were not cost-competitive to buy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TFNetwork Posted July 4, 2011 Share #173 Posted July 4, 2011 A little question, Are there are GM RTS' left in te city of NY??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
East New York Posted July 4, 2011 Share #174 Posted July 4, 2011 A little question, Are there are GM RTS' left in te city of NY??? Long gone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blitz Posted July 4, 2011 Share #175 Posted July 4, 2011 A little question, Are there are GM RTS' left in te city of NY??? At Amsterdam or ENY restoration shop maybe...but not in passenger service Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.