7LineFan Posted August 11, 2011 Share #876 Posted August 11, 2011 Just saw a video of the Padres stealing home against the Mets in the 9th... runners at the corners, runner on first tries to steal second, then as soon as the catcher throws to second, runner on third breaks for the plate. Definitely with a fast runner on third this can be pulled off... so why not do it more often? It certainly caught Thole and the Mets by surprise. Is it too high-risk of a play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 11, 2011 Share #877 Posted August 11, 2011 Just saw a video of the Padres stealing home against the Mets in the 9th... runners at the corners, runner on first tries to steal second, then as soon as the catcher throws to second, runner on third breaks for the plate. Definitely with a fast runner on third this can be pulled off... so why not do it more often? It certainly caught Thole and the Mets by surprise. Is it too high-risk of a play? I can't speak specifics, since I aint see/don't know the game situation of the game you're referring to..... but generally speaking, you kinda answered your own question.... offensively, it depends who the runner on 3rd is (and if the defense; ie, the catcher, is stupid enough to take the bait & even bother throwing to 2nd; especially if it's someone that's not known for stealing bases).... it's a reactionary type of play.... that's one reason you don't see it more often... it's not that it's so high risk for the offense, per say (esp. in the nat'l league, where teams resort to suicide squeezes, which is far more high risk for an offense).... it depends on the baseball IQ of the catcher, defensively.... knowin that you got a runner ready to break off 3rd, chances are you don't take that risk of throwing out to 2nd, in fear of the ball goin into the OF & that run scoring.... it's the same reason you seldom see pickoff attempts at 3rd base..... it's more of a risk for the defense than it is for the offense.... make sense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 11, 2011 Share #878 Posted August 11, 2011 I can't speak specifics, since I aint see/don't know the game situation of the game you're referring to..... top 9, runners at the corners, two outs, padres at bat and up by 4 but generally speaking, you kinda answered your own question.... offensively, it depends who the runner on 3rd is (and if the defense; ie, the catcher, is stupid enough to take the bait & even bother throwing to 2nd; especially if it's someone that's not known for stealing bases).... it's not that it's so high risk for the offense, per say (esp. in the nat'l league, where teams resort to suicide squeezes, which is far more high risk for an offense).... it depends on the baseball IQ of the catcher, defensively.... knowin that you got a runner on 3rd, chances are you don't take that risk of throwing out to 2nd, in fear of the ball goin into the OF.... it's the same reason you seldom see pickoff attempts at 3rd base..... it's more of a risk for the defense than it is for the offense.... makes sense? Yeah, considering that it forces the defense to make a play. Thole took the bait and the Padres scored a run. But then why doesn't the offense then force the matter and see what happens? If the catcher doesn't throw down to second, there's a stolen base. If he does, well... And yes, we all know that a botched pickoff to third can cost a game... I'm looking at you, James Shields... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 11, 2011 Share #879 Posted August 11, 2011 top 9, runners at the corners, two outs, padres at bat and up by 4...... Yeah, considering that it forces the defense to make a play. Thole took the bait and the Padres scored a run. But then why doesn't the offense then force the matter and see what happens? If the catcher doesn't throw down to second, there's a stolen base. If he does, well... And yes, we all know that a botched pickoff to third can cost a game... I'm looking at you, James Shields... Yeah, and if the catcher doesn't throw to second, then there's no double steal.... it's just a regular stolen base.... Anyway, being up by 4 in the 9th, you don't have near as much to lose from an offensive standpoint, full knowin that a team has to put up a crooked number in the bottom of the 9th in order to tie, or win the game (since the mets were the home team).... that's why the padres even bothered to attempting a double steal of that type.... easiest (or should I say, most successful) double steal, is the one where you have runners from 1st & 2nd advance to 2nd & 3rd..... if the catcher eats the ball, you have still have your 2 men on base..... the only time as an offense you wouldn't engage in this type of play, is if you're too far behind in a game, and you need baserunners.... also, there's that unwritten rule about not making the last out at 3rd or w/e..... otherwise, it's a safe play for an offense pretty much, in any other situation..... however, the double steal involving a man on 1st & a man on 3rd.... there's not near as many times in a game where an offense would even bother doing this... maybe if you're down by 2 or 3 runs in the 6th or 7th inning, you try to pull this off to catch the defense off guard - again, if you have the right guy on 3rd.... pretty much what it boils down to.... as an offense, you don't want to make an out at home plate due to a no throw (or even worse, a bluff) by a catcher.... even if the catcher doesn't receive the pitch cleanly, chances are you're still gonna get tagged out at home...... the play is too reliant on what the defense does (as opposed to the double steal involving men on 1st & 2nd)..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 11, 2011 Share #880 Posted August 11, 2011 Yeah, and if the catcher doesn't throw to second, then there's no double steal.... it's just a regular stolen base.... Anyway, being up by 4 in the 9th, you don't have near as much to lose from an offensive standpoint, full knowin that a team has to put up a crooked number in the bottom of the 9th in order to tie, or win the game (since the mets were the home team).... that's why the padres even bothered to attempting a double steal of that type.... easiest (or should I say, most successful) double steal, is the one where you have runners from 1st & 2nd advance to 2nd & 3rd..... if the catcher eats the ball, you have still have your 2 men on base..... the only time as an offense you wouldn't engage in this type of play, is if you're too far behind in a game, and you need baserunners.... also, there's that unwritten rule about not making the last out at 3rd or w/e..... otherwise, it's a safe play for an offense pretty much, in any other situation..... however, the double steal involving a man on 1st & a man on 3rd.... there's not near as many times in a game where an offense would even bother doing this... maybe if you're down by 2 or 3 runs in the 6th or 7th inning, you try to pull this off to catch the defense off guard - again, if you have the right guy on 3rd.... pretty much what it boils down to.... as an offense, you don't want to make an out at home plate due to a no throw (or even worse, a bluff) by a catcher.... even if the catcher doesn't receive the pitch cleanly, chances are you're still gonna get tagged out at home...... the play is too reliant on what the defense does (as opposed to the double steal involving men on 1st & 2nd)..... So then I can make the assumption that most times the catcher shouldn't throw, knowing there's the possibility of a run scoring? The question then becomes why Thole threw in the first place, knowing his team was down by four runs... but I guess we'll never know the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 11, 2011 Share #881 Posted August 11, 2011 I'm too lazy to quote posts now, but I'll comment: B35, good point about the walk not making a difference at that point. To me Tony Paige for the overnights is the best. He's got that nice easy going personality that you can drift off to sleep to. Lol. Well he doesn't seem like he's full of himself and is respectful to the callers even though the callers could be friggin wacked out nuts. Nova is becoming a nearly well rounded pitcher. They'll need him like this since I still cross my fingers on Colon and Garcia since I don't know how long their 'magic' can last this late in the season. Burnett, just stick a fork in him, and use him as a long reliever till he can get his act together [if that's possible]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 11, 2011 Share #882 Posted August 11, 2011 So then I can make the assumption that most times the catcher shouldn't throw, knowing there's the possibility of a run scoring? I wouldn't quite make that assumption, simply b/c the majority of the league isn't filled w/ burners; speed guys (the gardner's, pierre's, reyes', etc....).... Unless you're a catcher w/ a subpar throwing arm, that is.... as to why Thole threw it, you're right... none of us don't know..... my best guess is that he truly felt as if he could nail the guy at 2nd, whoever that was.... I don't follow the Mets (or hear much about him otherwise) to know how good a defensive catcher he is.... I'm too lazy to quote posts now, but I'll comment:B35, good point about the walk not making a difference at that point. To me Tony Paige for the overnights is the best. He's got that nice easy going personality that you can drift off to sleep to. Lol. Well he doesn't seem like he's full of himself and is respectful to the callers even though the callers could be friggin wacked out nuts. Nova is becoming a nearly well rounded pitcher. They'll need him like this since I still cross my fingers on Colon and Garcia since I don't know how long their 'magic' can last this late in the season. Burnett, just stick a fork in him, and use him as a long reliever till he can get his act together [if that's possible]. Tony Paige is still on... lol... haven't heard him in a while..... Anyway, it's settled.... Nova should take over as the Yankees #2 starter.... Far as last night, Nova should pay for Soriano's dinner the way he beautifully bailed him out..... I'm really not worried about Colon & Garcia, to tell the truth.... I have faith in either one of them as a 3..... My worries are confined to Hughes & Burnett.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 11, 2011 Share #883 Posted August 11, 2011 Surprised no one here posted this. Hope i am not 'jinxing' him lol. The Braves Dan Uggla has now hit in 31 straight games, longest in several years. It's doubtful he reach Joe. D '56' but it be nice if he could get to at least 40 games though.:eek: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2011-08-10-uggla-continues-streak_n.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejr88 Posted August 11, 2011 Share #884 Posted August 11, 2011 Yankees win series. That Robinson Cano grand slam sure helped. Russell Branyan loves Yankee Stadium. Time to take on Tampa Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Locomotion69 Posted August 11, 2011 Share #885 Posted August 11, 2011 Surprised no one here posted this. Hope i am not 'jinxing' him lol. The Braves Dan Uggla has now hit in 31 straight games, longest in several years. It's doubtful he reach Joe. D '56' but it be nice if he could get to at least 40 games though.:eek: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/nl/2011-08-10-uggla-continues-streak_n.htm It gets much harder for him from here on out. Uggla is one of 46 players in Major League history to record a hitting streak of at least 30 games. Of the previous 45 players, 17 saw their streak end at 30 games. The Mets have had 2 players hit in 30 straight games, both got no further then that. Hubie Brooks(1984) Moises Alou(2007) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted August 11, 2011 Share #886 Posted August 11, 2011 Yankees win series. That Robinson Cano grand slam sure helped. Russell Branyan loves Yankee Stadium. Time to take on Tampa Bay. Time to kill any hope for the Rays making the postseason. Does anyone on here see the Phillies winning 105+ games this regular season? That would place them among the best all time for NL teams in the regular season. The '72 Reds and '86 Mets who each won 108 games (tied for best all-time in the National League) finished as World Series champions so a great season may be moot for the 2011 Phillies without a championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 11, 2011 Share #887 Posted August 11, 2011 Time to kill any hope for the Rays making the postseason. Does anyone on here see the Phillies winning 105+ games this regular season? That would place them among the best all time for NL teams in the regular season. The '72 Reds and '86 Mets who each won 108 games (tied for best all-time in the National League) finished as World Series champions so a great season may be moot for the 2011 Phillies without a championship. Are you sure it's the '72 Reds and not the '75 Reds? I think I read somewhere the 1975 Big Red Machine is the one with that all victory total. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JubaionBx12+SBS Posted August 11, 2011 Share #888 Posted August 11, 2011 Are you sure it's the '72 Reds and not the '75 Reds? I think I read somewhere the 1975 Big Red Machine is the one with that all victory total. I made a mistake. It is the '75 Reds that won 108 games and the World Series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 11, 2011 Share #889 Posted August 11, 2011 I made a mistake. It is the '75 Reds that won 108 games and the World Series. No problem. In 1975 i was still in diapers lol so i don't remember either. What made that '75 world series so great is how the Red Sox nearly pulled one of the greatest upsests ever in that year's fall classic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alejr88 Posted August 11, 2011 Share #890 Posted August 11, 2011 Time to kill any hope for the Rays making the postseason. Does anyone on here see the Phillies winning 105+ games this regular season? That would place them among the best all time for NL teams in the regular season. The '72 Reds and '86 Mets who each won 108 games (tied for best all-time in the National League) finished as World Series champions so a great season may be moot for the 2011 Phillies without a championship. The Phils can win that much amount of games with that pitching staff. I'm just waiting for Vance Worley's regression to the mean. He is not that good. He is pitching the way mediocre pitchers like Kyle Kendrick and J.A. Happ pitched in their rookie seasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 12, 2011 Share #891 Posted August 12, 2011 forgot the yanks had a day game today.... Cano hit a GS, cool beans.... What did Russell Branyan do though? knowin the type of player he is, I'm guessin some monster HR or some'n..... as far as the phillies.... that team should have more wins then what they would do now.... I see them ending up like the '01 mariners... the way that team was built is almost the exact opposite of this year's phillies..... they had hitters & sluggers all over the damn place (even moreso than any yankee team I can remember), while the phillies have 4 studs in the rotation..... You would think the phillies offense would score more runs for their starters..... if I were a phillies fan, I would be irate when my SP goes out & gets 10+ k's, and lose by some isht like 2-1 or 1-0..... didn't that happen to cliff lee like twice this season already? The phils should actually be more dominant than what they are.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 12, 2011 Share #892 Posted August 12, 2011 forgot the yanks had a day game today.... Cano hit a GS, cool beans.... What did Russell Branyan do though? knowin the type of player he is, I'm guessin some monster HR or some'n..... First pitch he sees from Mo he hits it about 15 miles high in the air and it lands a couple rows back in right center. Three run homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeesPwnMets Posted August 12, 2011 Share #893 Posted August 12, 2011 Another shaky outing. Meh.. if I were Giradi, I'd give him three days off and let him regroup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7LineFan Posted August 12, 2011 Share #894 Posted August 12, 2011 Another shaky outing. Meh.. if I were Giradi, I'd give him three days off and let him regroup It was the first pitch he threw... and the other day wasn't a save situation, and he performs significantly worse in non-save situations... cut the guy some slack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shortline Bus Posted August 12, 2011 Share #895 Posted August 12, 2011 Today 16 years ago, the darkest moment in MLB History occured. August 12, 1994 was the first day of then longest work stoppage in pro sports history (not counting soccer leagues in Europe/South America cancelling games due to World War II) as Baseball went on strike. The result was the end of the regular season and of course the cancellation of the 1994 World Series. The '5' big changes that occured after the strike. 1)Start of the biggest 'in game scandal' in the sport's long history the "Steriods Era." The so called "Juicing Era" has arguably only ended recently around 2005-'06. 2)The gap between the elite teams i.e Yankees & Red Sox and the lower revenue teams i.e A's, Pirates, Marlins, Rays, Royals, etc. has got bigger than ever. 3)The Montreal Expos who had the best record at start of the strike in August 1994 suffered the most. 8 years due to terrible fan support and most important the City of Montreal and Quebec refusing to pay for a new ballpark, the Expos moved to Washington, DC. They are now known as the Washington Nationals. 4)Start of Expanded playoff spots aka 'wild cards.' Also the start of Interleague games. 5) Fox-TV taking over in 1996 from long time partners ABC-TV and NBC-TV as the primary station in America broadcasting the All Star Game and the World Series. CBS did also briefly held the national TV rights to MLB between 1990-'93. Thus little did sports fans know at that time, that on August 12, 1994 MLB would be changed forever. :eek: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeesPwnMets Posted August 12, 2011 Share #896 Posted August 12, 2011 It was the first pitch he threw... and the other day wasn't a save situation, and he performs significantly worse in non-save situations... cut the guy some slack. Since July 24, Rivera has allowed five runs and nine hits in eight innings with a blown save and a loss. Included in that are three consecutive games this week in which the closer has allowed at least a run: Sunday's blown save vs. Boston, Tuesday's go-ahead, two-run home run by Los Angeles' Bobby Abreu and Thursday's shaky save vs. the Angels in which he allowed a three-run home run (of which one run was charged to him). I would still be a little careful. It isn't just three outings. This has been going on for a little while now. Rivera is also old now. If this were a say 30 year old Rivera, then I wouldn't be too concerned, but he's 41, which makes the problem a little bigger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 12, 2011 Share #897 Posted August 12, 2011 yesterday, as I saw the yankees rewind, while watchin the Branyan HR..... 1) that pitch was a cutter.... that didn't cut (same w/ the abreu homerun btw).... Mo's fastball naturally cuts in (and when it's at its best, in & JUST off the plate to lefties).... the cut fastball is not some'n he 'tries' to do, so it's not mechanics.... So, the fact that his fastball isn't cutting, to me, says it's a fatigue issue.... 2) yeah, it was the first pitch he threw... branyan jumped on it. if I saw a fastball in the low 90's on a flat plane in the inner part of the plate, as a lefty, I'd jump on it too.... don't know what it is, but that ball anything below middle in(side) is an easier pitch for a lefty to handle... same is so when I bat lefty when I play baseball (not softball, like this one character... lmao).... whenever I bat right handed, I hate inside fastballs b/c I can't extend my arms, esp. w/ an 81" wingspan..... but none of that is neither here nor there..... 3) judging by the look on Mo's face.... never mind the fact that it was a HR, I seriously think he didn't expect branyan to swing... ------ Look, Mo's been used in 3 of their last 4 games..... He's been overworked as of late.... How many closers are as effective when they're appearing in games every other day..... that fact that he's in his 40's makes THAT issue more of a problem.... I mean yeh, as yankee fans we get spoiled to expect greatness every single time, but I'm not worried about Mo.... and I'm a pessimist.... When he starts blowing games left & right in September, then I'll start worrying.... next we'll start hearin the "maybe it's time to consider Robertson as the closer" talks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YankeesPwnMets Posted August 12, 2011 Share #898 Posted August 12, 2011 Robertson or Soriano would be good replacers. Soriano has more experience though. We'll see with Rivera. This is a time of year, you really want your closer to be automatic. The Yanks need to watch his innings. He's gonna become more fragile has the years go on. His next major injury probably marks the end of his career Rest Rivera. Use Robertson for a while or something. Let Rivera regroup and rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grand Concourse Posted August 12, 2011 Share #899 Posted August 12, 2011 next we'll start hearin the "maybe it's time to consider Robertson as the closer" talks.... That or 'this is why they got Soriano' talks.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted August 12, 2011 Share #900 Posted August 12, 2011 Robertson or Soriano would be good replacers. Soriano has more experience though. We'll see with Rivera. This is a time of year, you really want your closer to be automatic. The Yanks need to watch his innings. He's gonna become more fragile has the years go on. His next major injury probably marks the end of his career Rest Rivera. Use Robertson for a while or something. Let Rivera regroup and rest ...and that is where Girardi's managing skills (or lack thereof) comes into play. Way I see it, he's gonna keep on using Mo.... b/c if & whenever he puts Soriano or Robertson in the 9th to get a save (especially a 1 run or 2 run save), and they blow it, the media's gonna have his head.... ....but yeh, in general, if it's that 3 out save, I would suggest puttin in one of those guys more often, also...... That or 'this is why they got Soriano' talks.... Good Point... I gotta say though, Soriano's been handlin his biz' as of late.... and he does it so effortlessly, like he's un-nerved.... that signifies a good pitcher, hell, a person that's good at what he does, period..... someone all emotional & flailing all over the place, I'd stay away from.... that's the one thing that worries me about Joba @ times.... Don't you feel like punching Jose Valverde (same w/ K-Rod) in the face .. I hate those antics of (Valverde's) whenever he gets a strikeout.... it just screams "yeah, look at me, I got a strikeout"... http://www.y*utube.com/watch?v=KVzeyyeppWkhttp://www.y*utube.com/watch?v=GA4WHbzQwpwhttp://www.y*utube.com/watch?v=ZDLquTPeJQY No confidence whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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