SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

9 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

Isn’t the  and  the same thing?

Internally the Rockaway Shuttle is referred to as  but it's displayed as  to customers.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

5 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

If it weren’t due to the  train and lack of proper pocket tracks near Euclid Av, they could extend the  to Euclid Av to transfer to not only the  but also the .

How did the old  service work cause it went all the way to Euclid? Tbf I think both the  and  went past Euclid so maybe there were free tracks;idk

[4 via Mosholu]

53 minutes ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

How did the old  service work cause it went all the way to Euclid? Tbf I think both the  and  went past Euclid so maybe there were free tracks;idk

The Rockaway Shuttle typically ran from East New York (Euclid Avenue) to Beach 116 Street (Rockaway Park) during the weekend and midday hours. There were select afternoon shuttles that ran to Mott Avenue (Far Rockaway). Come to think of it, when it first began, it did not really have it's own letter on the map and it split it's time between Mott and Beach 116 Street middays, nights and weekends. You are right in saying that they had the and signs; they were sometimes marked as such on the trains when it first ran. The use of the red double H began on September 1, 1962 to differentiate the E from the original Rockaway shuttle. Night service was a Rockaway Round Robin that saw the Rockaway run from Euclid to Beach 116, then to Mott via Hammels Wye, and then back to Euclid; those two times were when the train primarily went to 119 Street - Lefferts Avenue (present day Lefferts Boulevard). It's identifier was the aforementioned turquoise E which was used from September 11, 1972 to August 29, 1976 when it changed into the train during the fiscal crisis that saw the train run to Chambers Street - World Trade Center at all times.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

Does anyone else ever get frustrated that the of the large LED screens installed in subway stations, most seem to just display advertisements, and often the few that display helpful arrival times/service changes are clustered together at one part of the station. At the very least, I feel like it'd be worth investigating having the displays cycle between ads, service status, and upcoming arrivals, so that every minute or so any screen would give you an update on the train times.

There should always be some screens that always display the subway map or service changes because often customers need to look at those screens for longer to understand what they need to do. In an ideal world, I think it'd be nice if the subway map could just update live with service changes because even as a native NYer who has a deeply invested interests in the subway, service changes can often be annoying/confusing to figure out. This might mean switching to the newer Vingelli style map and basically do like what the Weekender does with their maps. If they always had one or two people on hand working on the live maps, they should be able to reconstruct live service changes in a matter of minutes. There could even be a timestamp as to when the map was last updated on the screen. Also seems like Vingelli would just read clearer on those screens which honestly aren't amazing resolution.

Finally, I feel like the screens that only display the overall status of all lines are not particularly helpful, since the customer is really only interested in their lines, and when there is a delay or service change on a line they need, the customer still doesn't know specifically what it is.

[Kamen Rider]

Some of the displays are dedicated to advertising and control of them is leased out to our advertising contractors.

[LGA Link N Train]

15 hours ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

Does anyone else ever get frustrated that the of the large LED screens installed in subway stations, most seem to just display advertisements, and often the few that display helpful arrival times/service changes are clustered together at one part of the station. At the very least, I feel like it'd be worth investigating having the displays cycle between ads, service status, and upcoming arrivals, so that every minute or so any screen would give you an update on the train times.

There should always be some screens that always display the subway map or service changes because often customers need to look at those screens for longer to understand what they need to do. In an ideal world, I think it'd be nice if the subway map could just update live with service changes because even as a native NYer who has a deeply invested interests in the subway, service changes can often be annoying/confusing to figure out. This might mean switching to the newer Vingelli style map and basically do like what the Weekender does with their maps. If they always had one or two people on hand working on the live maps, they should be able to reconstruct live service changes in a matter of minutes. There could even be a timestamp as to when the map was last updated on the screen. Also seems like Vingelli would just read clearer on those screens which honestly aren't amazing resolution.

Finally, I feel like the screens that only display the overall status of all lines are not particularly helpful, since the customer is really only interested in their lines, and when there is a delay or service change on a line they need, the customer still doesn't know specifically what it is.

NGL, these new Weekend Service Maps are pretty helpful, would be nice if they replaced the map on Weekends in those Screens that display the map

[darkstar8983]

I wonder how invasive the work along 4 Av has been these past few weekends that even with reduced  service, service has to be curtailed even further and some  trains rerouted via Brighton. What should be done on these weekends is cut the  train out of Brooklyn and run the  local in its place (since it’s already been running local via Lower Manhattan due to other GOs on Culver and the Manhattan Bridge.). As for Bay Ridge, depending on which branch is having work done between West End, Bay Ridge and Sea Beach, replace service on the branch with shuttle buses and reroute trains to the two open branches:

i.e. West End Branch work, reroute  to Bay Ridge and shuttle buses replace West End Service, or cut  from Stillwell Av and reroute to Bay Ridge, and have one direction of west end / sea beach closed, and  trains provide service in the other direction. 
example: Manhattan bound  via West End, Coney Island bound  vía Sea Beach, and  to/from Bay Ridge, and  cut to Whitehall St. No shuttle buses needed and no service reductions along the Manhattan/Bronx/Queens sections of the lines, because headways these past weekends have been closer to 20 minutes between trains.

[Lawrence St]

4 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I wonder how invasive the work along 4 Av has been these past few weekends that even with reduced  service, service has to be curtailed even further and some  trains rerouted via Brighton. What should be done on these weekends is cut the  train out of Brooklyn and run the  local in its place (since it’s already been running local via Lower Manhattan due to other GOs on Culver and the Manhattan Bridge.). As for Bay Ridge, depending on which branch is having work done between West End, Bay Ridge and Sea Beach, replace service on the branch with shuttle buses and reroute trains to the two open branches:

i.e. West End Branch work, reroute  to Bay Ridge and shuttle buses replace West End Service, or cut  from Stillwell Av and reroute to Bay Ridge, and have one direction of west end / sea beach closed, and  trains provide service in the other direction. 
example: Manhattan bound  via West End, Coney Island bound  vía Sea Beach, and  to/from Bay Ridge, and  cut to Whitehall St. No shuttle buses needed and no service reductions along the Manhattan/Bronx/Queens sections of the lines, because headways these past weekends have been closer to 20 minutes between trains.

The  is one of those lines that are often controlled by council people in the NY government. I'm sure Justin Brannon would have a field day with the TA if they cut the  to be in favor of the  and . I hate what politics does to our transit system.

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The  is one of those lines that are often controlled by council people in the NY government. I'm sure Justin Brannon would have a field day with the TA if they cut the  to be in favor of the  and . I hate what politics does to our transit system.

Yeah which is why I suggested keeping the bay ridge branch open with a rerouted  or  and having the other route serve Stillwell Av (via West End to Manhattan and to Coney Island via Sea Beach). This way we don’t need bus substitution on Bay Ridge since it always seems to get the short end of the stick due to running a shuttle overnight

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

2 hours ago, LGA Link N Train said:

NGL, these new Weekend Service Maps are pretty helpful, would be nice if they replaced the map on Weekends in those Screens that display the map

The new weekend service maps are also hard to find on MTA website itself.

[Around the Horn]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

The  is one of those lines that are often controlled by council people in the NY government. I'm sure Justin Brannon would have a field day with the TA if they cut the  to be in favor of the  and . I hate what politics does to our transit system.

Actually I think he would approve of that given the alternative, as long as the remains as frequent as it usually is. The shuttle buses on 4th get universally panned by politicians and residents in the neighborhood alike.

[Kamen Rider]

Remember that as a state controlled agency, the councilors can go on all they want, but the MTA doesn’t have to listen to them. Transit answers to Albany long before it gives city hall the time of day.

[R32 3838]

Rode the R179 on the today and the AC was pure ass, I know 2 years ago I rode one and the AC was ass.

[trainfan22]

16 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

Rode the R179 on the today and the AC was pure ass, I know 2 years ago I rode one and the AC was ass.

It wasn't cold today, it was damn near Hoodie weather so IDK why you was expecting good A/C on a 70 degree day.

 

No car class I rode today was pumping out cold air, no need to as it wasn't hot outside.

 

 

[R32 3838]

9 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

It wasn't cold today, it was damn near Hoodie weather so IDK why you was expecting good A/C on a 70 degree day.

 

No car class I rode today was pumping out cold air, no need to as it wasn't hot outside.

 

 

nah it was ass, I rode an R160 on the and and the A/C was fine and worked. The r179 felt muggy as hell.

[Calvin]

The  train seems to be 50:50 with the R46 and R68/A from what I'm seeing when going from point A to B in observation. Even on weekends, they put mostly the R68/As on the line. During weekends, the layup does have at least 1-2 on either City Hall or at Astoria. 

[Wallyhorse]

18 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

Remember that as a state controlled agency, the councilors can go on all they want, but the MTA doesn’t have to listen to them. Transit answers to Albany long before it gives city hall the time of day.

That is true.  Pols at the state level are more important in that regard.  

That said, it's no secret pols in Bay Ridge wanted the split a few years ago, hence my plan of moving the  to Nassau as part of essentially a split run with the /  that would run from/to 95th-Bay Ridge from/to Jamaica Center with the transfer point (a simple cross-platform transfer) going south at Canal Street (which I would have as the  terminal on what currently is mainly the northbound track/"old southbound express" track at Canal, save for yard runs that would continue in-service from/to Broadway Junction on the  while late nights and weekends this  would continue to Metropolitan Avenue and absorb the shuttles and also would run to Metropolitan during times the currently would be running to Chambers) and going north at Chambers Street (which I would have as the  terminal full-time as it has been in the past on weekends when the was not running to Broad, this would be save for a few  /  runs during peak hours that would continue to Broad and terminate there). 

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 5/30/2023 at 12:17 AM, Around the Horn said:

Actually I think he would approve of that given the alternative, as long as the remains as frequent as it usually is. The shuttle buses on 4th get universally panned by politicians and residents in the neighborhood alike.

He and three other Bay Ridge pols suggested back in 2019 that Transit split the  like so - 

Wonder if Brannan and Andrew Gounardes would want to have another go at it. Unfortunately Max Rose and Mathylde Frontus are out of office having lost to Republicans, at least one of whom is not quiet about her distaste for mass transit, especially for congestion pricing.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

Does anyone know what software MTA uses to create their subway map PDF? I was tried several PDF editors but they all struggled to recognize certain elements of the official NYC subway map.

Edited May 31, 2023 by ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

He and three other Bay Ridge pols suggested back in 2019 that Transit split the  like so - 

Wonder if Brannan and Andrew Gounardes would want to have another go at it. Unfortunately Max Rose and Mathylde Frontus are out of office having lost to Republicans, at least one of whom is not quiet about her distaste for mass transit, especially for congestion pricing.

And this is why I came up with my plan of moving the to Nassau and becoming the  as quoted below:

17 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

That said, it's no secret pols in Bay Ridge wanted the split a few years ago, hence my plan of moving the  to Nassau as part of essentially a split run with the /  that would run from/to 95th-Bay Ridge from/to Jamaica Center with the transfer point (a simple cross-platform transfer) going south at Canal Street (which I would have as the  terminal on what currently is mainly the northbound track/"old southbound express" track at Canal, save for yard runs that would continue in-service from/to Broadway Junction on the  while late nights and weekends this  would continue to Metropolitan Avenue and absorb the shuttles and also would run to Metropolitan during times the currently would be running to Chambers) and going north at Chambers Street (which I would have as the  terminal full-time as it has been in the past on weekends when the was not running to Broad, this would be save for a few  /  runs during peak hours that would continue to Broad and terminate there). 

As for the Broadway Line, with the  on Nassau:

The  becomes a 19/7 line from Whitehall to 71st-Continental (with during rush hours some trains ending southbound and beginning northbound on the tunnel level of Canal Street.

The  and running as they do now, however, there would be additional service as needed that would end southbound and begin northbound at 9th Avenue or Bay Parkway on the  and run via the tunnel as a 4th Avenue and Broadway local.  This could be assigned a different letter to avoid confusion from those who would not get what " via tunnel" and " via bridge" meant.

This to me solves the issue with the  by having THAT on Nassau since the only merger would mostly be with a small number of trains running via the tunnel (to supplement the main trains) and during peak hours a handful of  /  trains that end and begin at Broad Street.  

 

 

[CenSin]

3 hours ago, ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ said:

Does anyone know what software MTA uses to create their subway map PDF? I was tried several PDF editors but they all struggled to recognize certain elements of the official NYC subway map.

PDFs were not made to be editable other than those produced by Adobe Illustrator which deliberately embed enough information to enable lossless editing.

The PDFs you find floating around are almost always “finalized” by subsetting fonts, flattening shapes, clipping invisible parts of objects, and/or encryption.

That said, when I was editing the MTA map many years ago, the greatest difficulty I ran into was finding substitute fonts for the text and letter bullets. The lines themselves are fairly easy to manipulate but cutting, changing colors, and/or creating parallel lines (i.e., to add your own fantasy route running with an existing differently colored route).

[Trainmaster5]

I’ve been touching base with my buddies from RTO and a CED MS1. I call us “the Dinosaurs” because of our age and our transit training history. Sometimes I point out a group of posts and ask for their opinions. Sometimes it is reversed and they see something that I overlooked. The posts about the new R211 NTT are really revealing to my crew. I’m of the opinion that the NTT class of equipment is shiny and has some interesting features. I’m also part of the generation of T/O- M/M and C/Rs who were told that the idea was to blind the public with BS. Those of us who were based around East 180th Street yard when the R110A was tested remembered that it usually died once or twice a week in the station while in service. It became a joking matter amongst the regular  and  crews up there. Luckily the shop was right there. I was just happy that they kept it on the  and not inflict on the Dyre line. Finally they introduced the R142 cars to the  and, eventually, the  line. My first impression was that it had a nice operating cab. Having been operating Pre-Redbird SMEE since coming to RTO all I could say was that it was different. I also operated an R62A car daily on the  and remember a TSS telling me that the R142 was better than the R62A and that it was the future for RTO. I told him that it might be the future but it definitely wasn’t better. I left Dyre headed S/B and showed him that at every stop the TOD screen said that I had overrun the station by 40 feet or more. Never mind that I had made perfect 10 car stops. The next day while leaving Morris Park the display and side signs went out. I entered East 180th Street and two Motor Instructors , my regular guys heading home, got on and I told them that I would fix the problem. The TSS got scared when I opened the cabinet and I reset two circuit breakers. By the time we left Simpson St everything was fine. The motor instructors asked the TSS if I was supposed to operate all the way to Flatbush if the problem continued and he told them that neither he, I, or they were allowed to do what I did. That was my defining moment about the NTT equipment. The motor instructors and I were taught to use our training to overcome problems before a supervisor or RCI was on the scene. The newer TSS guys were telling us to sit tight and wait for help to arrive. I’m sure that Bill from Maspeth, RTOman, and a few others from that era know exactly where I’m coming from. If we sat still and took no action we would be out of service in a heartbeat. Even Kamen Rider gave you guys a hint a few days ago. Like my dinosaur folks say it’s obvious if you step back and look at the big picture. Give me a SMEE train and I’ll be on the move while you’re stuck on an NTT waiting for help because the crew wasn’t taught how to overcome a breakdown. My rant and my opinion. Carry on.

[ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ]

52 minutes ago, CenSin said:

PDFs were not made to be editable other than those produced by Adobe Illustrator which deliberately embed enough information to enable lossless editing.

The PDFs you find floating around are almost always “finalized” by subsetting fonts, flattening shapes, clipping invisible parts of objects, and/or encryption.

That said, when I was editing the MTA map many years ago, the greatest difficulty I ran into was finding substitute fonts for the text and letter bullets. The lines themselves are fairly easy to manipulate but cutting, changing colors, and/or creating parallel lines (i.e., to add your own fantasy route running with an existing differently colored route).

Yeah it's quite annoying. Here's an attempt I made at SAS Phase II. There are a ton of problems:

1. The PDF software doesn't recognize the wheelchair accessible symbol so rip

2. "East Harlem" label wasn't moveable for some reason so 116th is right on top of it

3. Idk why but that segment of 1rst Avenue was being stubborn

4. While I was ultimately able to do it, creating a new round bullet for 96th St and moving the square bullet from 96th to 125th St was annoying

Constructing the actual path and doing stations isn't that bad as you said. The bullets are very annoying but doable. The worst is the order and layering, with some things being randomly connected to others

Edited June 1, 2023 by ABCDEFGJLMNQRSSSWZ

[Trainmaster5]

Before I go too far on the subject of the R211 equipment and my personal feelings let me try to explain where I’m coming from. My generation of RTO folks in either division were taught that the tree started with the trackage. Nothing comes before the tracks. Next up is the third rail. Power Distribution department. With power supply and tracks connected we come to the Signal system. Signals and switches will determine the routes that are available. I’m a firm believer that CBTC is the most important thing related to train movement these days. Not NTT nor old school equipment. The safety of train movement will always depend on the signal system. Fixed block or CBTC it doesn’t matter. The problem I foresee is ATO. Does the CBTC infrastructure override the train crew ? It seems to me that the equipment manufacturers would have to have an extremely large presence in the system to ensure the safe operation of the trains. If there’s no training of the road crews to overcome problems encountered without waiting for manufacturers or RTO supervision then everything comes to a halt. Maybe some present day RTO crews can explain how they are taught these days. Don’t mind me asking because I’m definitely old school. If I have a chance to use a ticket machine or a self checkout line vs an old school cashier I pick the human every time. I’m guaranteed to get my purchase and my change every time. When that machine gobbles up your cash or credit card and gives you nothing in return and takes your last $10 or $20 shame on you. 😄😄😄 Carry on. 

[Kamen Rider]

They must have changed their tune in the past 20 years because the only rule with circuit breakers that I was taught is if you reset it and it trips again at some point, the train is OOS. Everything else is fair game.
 

Had to take and pass a troubleshooting quiz during Schoolcar and both the major written tests came with “which circuit breaker on (insert car class here) controls (insert function here)?” questions on it.

 

Hell, there is one problem I encountered that requires me to flip the breaker twice intentionally to overcome.