BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Just thought I'd share this. Taken at the Avenue A M8 stop.

Well, I wish the best for the family, hope they get the idiot behind bars, even though that won't recompense the family's loss. Sad story regardless, was thinking about this story at the beginning of last week as well.

[B35 via Church]

1/2. The BM5 overall has a lower cost per rider though. I'm not also gonna say that the QM4 is completely useless on Saturdays (for me to say that would be a lie, as there are several trips that carry good loads in the AM and PM to and from Manhattan, respectively). They might look into cutting several trips, but they won't do all at once. 

 

3. The BM5 has a longer runtime (70 minutes, compared to 50 minutes for the QM4), but still, there's less trips, so it's less money spent. I never said that there would be cuts in rush hour express bus service. By least fluctuation I meant which has the least range in service, and which would have the better average in cost per rider. The annual figure is also less because the BM5 runs only 307 days a year, whereas the QM4 runs all 365 days. 

 

4. If it ran like up to 4 PM like it did, then yeah. Because after the 1:23 PM QM15 bus departing 63 Drive, the only route there should be the QM15 (I don't see much ridership coming out from later trips. The QM15 doesn't even pick up much afterward to the fact where the two routes should run. It's not like Union Tpke where the QM6 is needed for coverage.

 

5. Yes, because my whole plan all along was to for the BM5 to run from 5 AM to 11 PM every day on 10 minute frequencies...

 

6. 11:40 AM into Queens. That's all I'll say. And to say that I want the service to go to the BM5 is a lie because I've been on the opposite side before:

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35015-brooklyn-bus-proposalsideas-thread/?p=756913

 

7. I was talking about full time lines or lines with all day service (or throughout most of the day). If it included rush hour only routes, it would be more.

1 & 2 - Again, it's already been established why the BM5 has an "overall" lower cost per rider..... My thing is, I don't know why cutting trips [one at a time] vs.[all at once] is a point of contention here.... If anything, one would think you would be more worried/focused about enhancing BM5 service in & of itself, not looking to cut trips here & there off other routes..... That's what's suspect about your entire spiel as of late; This looking of ways to cut trips off other routes - Case in point, you did that with the BM4 rather recently....

 

3- You didn't have to mention rush hour cuts, as off peak hours pertains to the weekday as well....

 

4- Despite the fact that I don't think you're necessarily being honest about your answer to that question....

The rest of your retort to this particular point fortifies anyone bringing up the running of the BM5 during rush hours only (speaking of which).... Now I agree that the BM5 won't actually become a rush hour route anytime soon, but to say the Qm15 should be the only route running after 1:23 or whatever, says enough about the BM5 usage/importance along Woodhaven (I would also include rush hour service in juxtaposition to what I'm saying with this as well).... Because lIke I said in my last post, Woodhaven doesn't need the BM5 - it is totally supplemental.....

 

In a roundabout way, what you're saying here in these recent comments is one of two things:

- The BM5 shouldn't be running at all (in the off peak direction) after that time period you mention... Which is a testament to its Brooklyn usage.....

- The BM5 should still run, but shouldn't make any stops in Queens (in the off peak direction) after that time period you mention, since you say the only route that should be there is the QM15.....

 

You can't argue both of those above points logically.... It seems to me that's what you're trying to do.... 

 

5- Doesn't have to be 10 min. frequencies throughout that span you mention, for you to support savings from cutting trips off other routes to have it go towards the BM5 (like all the savings have to go to the BM5 for me to make that point).... Your sarcastic retort here doesn't help your case any.....

 

6- Having the QM15 & BM5 combined in a worst case scenario situation isn't exactly being on the opposite side..... Neither is wanting to improve the stop selection & areas served on the BM5....

 

7- It still comes off as unnecessary boasting.....

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 & 2 - Again, it's already been established why the BM5 has an "overall" lower cost per rider..... My thing is, I don't know why cutting trips [one at a time] vs.[all at once] is a point of contention here.... If anything, one would think you would be more worried/focused about enhancing BM5 service in & of itself, not looking to cut trips here & there off other routes..... That's what's suspect about your entire spiel as of late; This looking of ways to cut trips off other routes - Case in point, you did that with the BM4 rather recently....

 

3- You didn't have to mention rush hour cuts, as off peak hours pertains to the weekday as well....

 

4- Despite the fact that I don't think you're necessarily being honest about your answer to that question....

The rest of your retort to this particular point fortifies anyone bringing up the running of the BM5 during rush hours only (speaking of which).... Now I agree that the BM5 won't actually become a rush hour route anytime soon, but to say the Qm15 should be the only route running after 1:23 or whatever, says enough about the BM5 usage/importance along Woodhaven (I would also include rush hour service in juxtaposition to what I'm saying with this as well).... Because lIke I said in my last post, Woodhaven doesn't need the BM5 - it is totally supplemental.....

 

In a roundabout way, what you're saying here in these recent comments is one of two things:

- The BM5 shouldn't be running at all (in the off peak direction) after that time period you mention... Which is a testament to its Brooklyn usage.....

- The BM5 should still run, but shouldn't make any stops in Queens (in the off peak direction) after that time period you mention, since you say the only route that should be there is the QM15.....

 

You can't argue both of those above points logically.... It seems to me that's what you're trying to do....

 

5- Doesn't have to be 10 min. frequencies throughout that span you mention, for you to support savings from cutting trips off other routes to have it go towards the BM5 (like all the savings have to go to the BM5 for me to make that point).... Your sarcastic retort here doesn't help your case any.....

 

6- Having the QM15 & BM5 combined in a worst case scenario situation isn't exactly being on the opposite side..... Neither is wanting to improve the stop selection & areas served on the BM5....

 

7- It still comes off as unnecessary boasting.....

1/2. Still doesnt prove though that I'm trying to enhance the BM5. Unless Im wrong, I never once (for an express, local is a different story) proposed improving service by more than 4 each way, especially in my area.I haven't even done that with the BM5. If I've tried improvong the span or anything, it was always from within itself.

 

3/4. You can believe what you want. But I still stand by what I've said.

1:23 PM is the departure of the last QM15 before its all just QM15's to Manhattan. In other words, Im saying retaining all off peak service as it is. You'd still have more riders from Spring Creek taking the BM5. Most people still get on the QM15 anyways, but for the most part, both trips have suitable loads heading into the city. (BM5 @ 8, and QM15 @ 10).

 

5. (In Bold) But I'm not.

 

6. How is the first point not on the opposite side. If one does poorly, then the other takes hold the position of both. May relieve several buses (although add a bus or two). For the second, still the same fares are collect (and people would still opt for the QM15). The point is to encourage overall ridership on te corridor, not to take away ridership from one to the other. The BM5 had an increase in ridership (a good one too) from 2010 to 2011, specifically on Weekdays. However, that's from the sporadic QM23 riders( although most went to the QM15), and I'll even argue that some QM12 riders that ride it in the South during midday hours decided to hop on the BM5 or QM15. As for the rest, yes they probably came QM15 riders, but I'll argue that the numbers weren't so high compared from other routes, because in any way, the QM15 ridership increased during the same time period (Rego Park also lost the QM10 midday hours, mainly because of the sharp decline in ridership). Quite frankly, that's the main reason I decided in improving the stop selection for the QM15.

 

7. Im not boasting about it, I'm just stating if the BM5 were considered for such a cut, those would be looked as well.

Edited July 6, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[MHV9218]

Until 6742 gets repainted (soon), Manhattan has two buses running around like that: 6429 and 6742.

[B35 via Church]

1/2. Still doesnt prove though that I'm trying to enhance the BM5. Unless Im wrong, I never once (for an express, local is a different story) proposed improving service by more than 4 each way, especially in my area.I haven't even done that with the BM5. If I've tried improvong the span or anything, it was always from within itself.

 

3/4. You can believe what you want. But I still stand by what I've said.

1:23 PM is the departure of the last QM15 before its all just QM15's to Manhattan. In other words, Im saying retaining all off peak service as it is. You'd still have more riders from Spring Creek taking the BM5. Most people still get on the QM15 anyways, but for the most part, both trips have suitable loads heading into the city. (BM5 @ 8, and QM15 @ 10).

 

5. (In Bold) But I'm not.

 

6. How is the first point not on the opposite side. If one does poorly, then the other takes hold the position of both. May relieve several buses (although add a bus or two). For the second, still the same fares are collect (and people would still opt for the QM15). The point is to encourage overall ridership on te corridor, not to take away ridership from one to the other. The BM5 had an increase in ridership (a good one too) from 2010 to 2011, specifically on Weekdays. However, that's from the sporadic QM23 riders( although most went to the QM15), and I'll even argue that some QM12 riders that ride it in the South during midday hours decided to hop on the BM5 or QM15. As for the rest, yes they probably came QM15 riders, but I'll argue that the numbers weren't so high compared from other routes, because in any way, the QM15 ridership increased during the same time period (Rego Park also lost the QM10 midday hours, mainly because of the sharp decline in ridership). Quite frankly, that's the main reason I decided in improving the stop selection for the QM15.

 

7. Im not boasting about it, I'm just stating if the BM5 were considered for such a cut, those would be looked as well.

1,2, & 5 - It lends credence to it...

 

You say but you're not (supporting cutting trips of other routes to have those savings enhance BM5 service).....

So what IS your end game with your focus on cutting trips here & there as of late on other routes then? You haven't made that clear at all..... Combine that with the fact that you've been at it quite a bit w/ the BM5 & QM15 talk; what do you expect someone to conclude......

 

4- I will believe whatever I want - Because you're throwing up smokescreens, instead of stating your real motives (you did this in your reply to VG8 & you're doing it here now)....

 

...and I'm not doubting that point about 1:23pm on the QM15..... and of course the BM5 will still have its Brooklyn riders....

What's being talked about here is the BM5's usage along Woodhaven during off peak hours.... Most people getting on QM15's over BM5's is NewFlyer's very point.... You yourself even say here that most still get on the QM15 anyways, so what's really the deal here....

 

6- You posted a link to an old post of yours that links to one of your maps combining the QM15 & BM5.....

How is that being on the opposite side of wanting service to go to the BM5, BM5 Woodhaven? "If one does poorly, then the other holds the position of both?" How are you gonna sit there & try to redefine what the word opposite means, to suit your point..... The opposite side would have nothing to do with wanting any service enhancements to the BM5.... A combination of the two routes still entails the BM5's routing... You're just doing it with the QM15, instead of the BM5 itself - you aint slick...... And it's a wonder why VG8 brought up that you still have the QM15 at your arsenal (paraphrasing).....

 

Also, what is the rest of this stuff you're bringing up in this part of the retort...... I'm not questioning your wanting to encourage ridership (on the BM5), the BM5's increase in ridership with the addition of Woodhaven stops, anything about fares being collected, any QM15 passenger activity, anything involving the QM10, QM12, or the old QM23, ... I'm questioning your logic with this whole "opposite side" bit....

 

See, what you're doing here is trying to argue sending QM15's to cover the BM5 portion (during off peak hours) by improving the stop selection (as you put it) - as being one in the same with you being on the opposite side of wanting the service to go to the BM5.....

 

It isn't.

 

7- From an outsider, it looks more like you'd want those routes to get cut before the BM5.....

If I knew the route I used was struggling, why in the world would I care which other routes would get looked at (for cuts) as well....

Edited July 6, 2014 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1,2, & 5 - It lends credence to it...

 

You say but you're not (supporting cutting trips of other routes to have those savings enhance BM5 service).....

So what IS your end game with your focus on cutting trips here & there as of late on other routes then? You haven't made that clear at all..... Combine that with the fact that you've been at it quite a bit w/ the BM5 & QM15 talk; what do you expect someone to conclude......

 

4- I will believe whatever I want - Because you're throwing up smokescreens, instead of stating your real motives (you did this in your reply to VG8 & you're doing it here now)....

 

...and I'm not doubting that point about 1:23pm on the QM15..... and of course the BM5 will still have its Brooklyn riders....

What's being talked about here is the BM5's usage along Woodhaven during off peak hours.... Most people getting on QM15's over BM5's is NewFlyer's very point.... You yourself even say here that most still get on the QM15 anyways, so what's really the deal here....

 

6- You posted a link to an old post of yours that links to one of your maps combining the QM15 & BM5.....

How is that being on the opposite side of wanting service to go to the BM5, BM5 Woodhaven? "If one does poorly, then the other holds the position of both?" How are you gonna sit there & try to redefine what the word opposite means, to suit your point..... The opposite side would have nothing to do with wanting any service enhancements to the BM5.... A combination of the two routes still entails the BM5's routing... You're just doing it with the QM15, instead of the BM5 itself - you aint slick...... And it's a wonder why VG8 brought up that you still have the QM15 at your arsenal (paraphrasing).....

 

Also, what is the rest of this stuff you're bringing up in this part of the retort...... I'm not questioning your wanting to encourage ridership (on the BM5), the BM5's increase in ridership with the addition of Woodhaven stops, anything about fares being collected, any QM15 passenger activity, anything involving the QM10, QM12, or the old QM23, ... I'm questioning your logic with this whole "opposite side" bit....

 

See, what you're doing here is trying to argue sending QM15's to cover the BM5 portion (during off peak hours) by improving the stop selection (as you put it) - as being one in the same with you being on the opposite side of wanting the service to go to the BM5.....

 

It isn't.

 

7- From an outsider, it looks more like you'd want those routes to get cut before the BM5.....

If I knew the route I used was struggling, why in the world would I care which other routes would get looked at (for cuts) as well....

2/4. Still doesn't mean I am asking to improve service. Besides, any QM15 posts I have started indentified bunching, which has no correlation whatsoever to enhancing the amount of service on the QM15.

 

As for the BM5, I've never came here and said that it needs more trips. I've never mentioned it at all. So I don't know how Im suggesting that service should be enhanced on both routes.

 

6. Extend the QM15 via the BM5 requires less buses overall than running both routes together. When I made this proposal, the stop selection off peak hours would not improve at all, as the QM15 makes every stop already. All the stops on Madison would also be unserved as well. So this is by no means an enhancement in service for anyone overall.

 

 

7. It was brought up earlier in a comment, so I replied stating that there were other routes that would also fall the category as well.

 

My point this whole time was that both routes should be left as they are during its operating hours. I just brought up the fact that there are routes with similar characteristics and situations as the BM5, which (under NewFlyer's proposal) was to be eliminated during off peak hours.

Edited July 6, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1,2, & 5 - It lends credence to it...

 

You say but you're not (supporting cutting trips of other routes to have those savings enhance BM5 service).....

So what IS your end game with your focus on cutting trips here & there as of late on other routes then? You haven't made that clear at all..... Combine that with the fact that you've been at it quite a bit w/ the BM5 & QM15 talk; what do you expect someone to conclude......

 

4- I will believe whatever I want - Because you're throwing up smokescreens, instead of stating your real motives (you did this in your reply to VG8 & you're doing it here now)....

 

...and I'm not doubting that point about 1:23pm on the QM15..... and of course the BM5 will still have its Brooklyn riders....

What's being talked about here is the BM5's usage along Woodhaven during off peak hours.... Most people getting on QM15's over BM5's is NewFlyer's very point.... You yourself even say here that most still get on the QM15 anyways, so what's really the deal here....

 

6- You posted a link to an old post of yours that links to one of your maps combining the QM15 & BM5.....

How is that being on the opposite side of wanting service to go to the BM5, BM5 Woodhaven? "If one does poorly, then the other holds the position of both?" How are you gonna sit there & try to redefine what the word opposite means, to suit your point..... The opposite side would have nothing to do with wanting any service enhancements to the BM5.... A combination of the two routes still entails the BM5's routing... You're just doing it with the QM15, instead of the BM5 itself - you aint slick...... And it's a wonder why VG8 brought up that you still have the QM15 at your arsenal (paraphrasing).....

 

Also, what is the rest of this stuff you're bringing up in this part of the retort...... I'm not questioning your wanting to encourage ridership (on the BM5), the BM5's increase in ridership with the addition of Woodhaven stops, anything about fares being collected, any QM15 passenger activity, anything involving the QM10, QM12, or the old QM23, ... I'm questioning your logic with this whole "opposite side" bit....

 

See, what you're doing here is trying to argue sending QM15's to cover the BM5 portion (during off peak hours) by improving the stop selection (as you put it) - as being one in the same with you being on the opposite side of wanting the service to go to the BM5.....

 

It isn't.

 

7- From an outsider, it looks more like you'd want those routes to get cut before the BM5.....

If I knew the route I used was struggling, why in the world would I care which other routes would get looked at (for cuts) as well....

LMAO... I think he's being serious about 10 minute headways... In all honesty, what he wants is express bus service like we have in Riverdale throughout the day, where the BxM1 & BxM2 combined has headways of 15 minutes off-peak until late at night, which I don't see happening over there anytime soon on the BM5.  The demographics (and I don't mean race per se either) aren't such in those areas to garner that type of service.  Riverdale is a very unique situation in that you have a large amount of Manhattanites that move there that are used to not driving and want to use public transportation and the easiest set up is the express bus.  It just so happens that many of them have the luxury of having express bus service practically outside of their door, especially down in Spuyten Duyvil with all of co-ops down there.  The other thing is the types of people using the service.  There is a large elderly group, along with families and young folks in Riverdale such that there is always a market for usage, and oddly enough, the hilly topography makes the express bus even moreso a draw because it provides a one seat ride and cuts down on the schlepping which makes the neighborhood much more doable than say the bus to the subway with numerous transfers.  Ridership may not be through the roof during off-peak, but it's enough so that the service is kept.  I've been on several 23:00 BxM2's on Saturdays that get a good 10+ people going to the city (mainly females (middle aged or older, and the young types like myself heading the city for the night and some workers that work in Riverdale too (i.e. doormen or nurses, etc.), and the Sunday 22:00 BxM2's can carry 10 - 15 riders especially during the warm months.  You also have people just over the border in Westchester that use the service too.  The BM5 doesn't have these factors.  Just a whole different type of living.  Riverdale is pretty much a bedroom community where people go to Manhattan regularly and it isn't seen as a schlepp by any means, thus facilitating travel via the express bus much more so than the area that he is in.  During late nights, I can be home on the express bus in 30 minutes.  It is WAYYY faster than the subway, not to mention the safety factor.  That's another reason too.  In his area, if the safety issue comes up, those folks would rather drive than use the express bus during late nights, as that would be quicker, vs driving from Manhattan to Riverdale which wouldn't save but maybe 10-15 minutes or so.  Even if you compare Staten Island, which is a schlepp, there is much more dependence on the express bus because of the lack of rail service and partially topography too (hills again), such that even though it's a schlepp, it's still the fastest way to get to the city from Staten Island, though driving is quickest, but the high tolls to some extent deter that going to and from Manhattan, but given that you have a large demographic to choose from of people using the express bus on Staten Island, it gives you much more options than the pool in his area.  The fact the LIRR serves some portions of Queens and is readily accessible in most cases also doesn't help his case because in the (MTA)'s minds they would rather push people to the LIRR than to the express bus.  

Edited July 6, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

LMAO... I think he's being serious about 10 minute headways... In all honesty, what he wants is express bus service like we have in Riverdale throughout the day, blah blah blah,  service too.  The BM5 doesn't have these factors. Blah blah blah blah,  the fact the LIRR serves some portions of Queens and is readily accessible in most cases also doesn't help his case because in the (MTA)'s minds they would rather push people to the LIRR than to the express bus.  

It was sarcasm...

How much do you want me to give Union Tpke if I give Woodhaven 10 minute headways...

 

It isn't helping your case if the trip just to get to the LIRR is just as time consuming as getting to the city itself.

 

A basic trip log:

 

Let's say I typically leave my house at 1:20 PM, to give myself 8-10 extra time waiting for the BM5 at 63 Drive on a Saturday. Bus gets there at 1:52 PM (although it's slated to pass at 46). If I want, let's say, Madison and 48, arrives at 2:19 PM.

 

With the LIRR:

 

Let's say I leave my house at the exact same time. I go wait for the Q47 on 80/Eliot, slated to pass at 1:37 PM. Bus arrives at 69 street and Roosevelt at 1:51 PM. I walk to Woodside LIRR, arriving there at 1:56 PM (least amount of time walked). I take the train at 2:13 PM, and arrives Penn Station at 2:24 PM. I would still need to transfer to a subway line, and walk. I already spent more time then with simply with the express bus. Hell, the would be faster anyways.

 

If I was so self conceided on the transit in my own area, I wouldn't be using the service, nor give two shits about the transit service outside my area, period. 

Edited July 7, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It was sarcasm...

Well if your 10 minute headways comment was sarcasm, then surely having it run until 23:00 was sarcasm.... It will be a cold day in hell before that happens...   Just not enough ridership for that. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well if your 10 minute headways comment was sarcasm, then surely having it run until 23:00 was sarcasm.... It will be a cold day in hell before that happens...   Just not enough ridership for that. 

It already does (towards Queens that is).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

It already does (towards Queens that is).

Yeah but not towards Manhattan, which was my point.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Yeah but not towards Manhattan, which was my point.

That's what the Q67 is for (in my case).

[B35 via Church]

2/4. Still doesn't mean I am asking to improve service. Besides, any QM15 posts I have started indentified bunching, which has no correlation whatsoever to enhancing the amount of service on the QM15.

 

As for the BM5, I've never came here and said that it needs more trips. I've never mentioned it at all. So I don't know how Im suggesting that service should be enhanced on both routes.

 

6. Extend the QM15 via the BM5 requires less buses overall than running both routes together. When I made this proposal, the stop selection off peak hours would not improve at all, as the QM15 makes every stop already. All the stops on Madison would also be unserved as well. So this is by no means an enhancement in service for anyone overall.

 

 

7. It was brought up earlier in a comment, so I replied stating that there were other routes that would also fall the category as well.

 

My point this whole time was that both routes should be left as they are during its operating hours. I just brought up the fact that there are routes with similar characteristics and situations as the BM5, which (under NewFlyer's proposal) was to be eliminated during off peak hours.

2 & 4 - Again, what is your end game with your focus on cutting trips here & there as of late on other routes then....

 

6 - Of course you're gonna say that about a combination of sorts requiring less buses now, because your wanting to add service to the BM5 is under scrutiny.....

 

LMAO... I think he's being serious about 10 minute headways... In all honesty, what he wants is express bus service like we have in Riverdale throughout the day, where the BxM1 & BxM2 combined has headways of 15 minutes off-peak until late at night, which I don't see happening over there anytime soon on the BM5.  The demographics (and I don't mean race per se either) aren't such in those areas to garner that type of service.  Riverdale is a very unique situation in that you have a large amount of Manhattanites that move there that are used to not driving and want to use public transportation and the easiest set up is the express bus.  It just so happens that many of them have the luxury of having express bus service practically outside of their door, especially down in Spuyten Duyvil with all of co-ops down there.  The other thing is the types of people using the service.  There is a large elderly group, along with families and young folks in Riverdale such that there is always a market for usage, and oddly enough, the hilly topography makes the express bus even moreso a draw because it provides a one seat ride and cuts down on the schlepping which makes the neighborhood much more doable than say the bus to the subway with numerous transfers.  Ridership may not be through the roof during off-peak, but it's enough so that the service is kept.  I've been on several 23:00 BxM2's on Saturdays that get a good 10+ people going to the city (mainly females (middle aged or older, and the young types like myself heading the city for the night and some workers that work in Riverdale too (i.e. doormen or nurses, etc.), and the Sunday 22:00 BxM2's can carry 10 - 15 riders especially during the warm months.  You also have people just over the border in Westchester that use the service too.  The BM5 doesn't have these factors.  Just a whole different type of living.  Riverdale is pretty much a bedroom community where people go to Manhattan regularly and it isn't seen as a schlepp by any means, thus facilitating travel via the express bus much more so than the area that he is in.  During late nights, I can be home on the express bus in 30 minutes.  It is WAYYY faster than the subway, not to mention the safety factor.  That's another reason too.  In his area, if the safety issue comes up, those folks would rather drive than use the express bus during late nights, as that would be quicker, vs driving from Manhattan to Riverdale which wouldn't save but maybe 10-15 minutes or so.  Even if you compare Staten Island, which is a schlepp, there is much more dependence on the express bus because of the lack of rail service and partially topography too (hills again), such that even though it's a schlepp, it's still the fastest way to get to the city from Staten Island, though driving is quickest, but the high tolls to some extent deter that going to and from Manhattan, but given that you have a large demographic to choose from of people using the express bus on Staten Island, it gives you much more options than the pool in his area.  The fact the LIRR serves some portions of Queens and is readily accessible in most cases also doesn't help his case because in the (MTA)'s minds they would rather push people to the LIRR than to the express bus.  

I took that bit about 10 minutes as sarcasm, and I can understand why he'd choose to ride the BM5 over the QM15..... But this whole exchange involving the 4 of us (incl. NewFlyer), his (BM5's) retorts has an air of disingenuity to me... Like he's purposely keeping his true intentions with the cutting of trips on other routes under wraps....

 

"Still doesnt prove though that I'm trying to enhance the BM5"

"Still doesn't mean I am asking to improve service"

 

^^ Imagine asking someone a question & someone responds like this..... It's like someone being accused of something, and the first thing out their mouth is a "prove it" type of response.... To me, it sounds guilty as hell, but whatever....

 

As far as him wanting the pick of the litter (so to speak), similar to the BxM1 & BxM2,  I don't get the sense that he wants to deal with Qm15's though.... The BM5 has less severe problems that plagues the QM15, so I'm concluding that he's in it to improve service on the BM5....

Edited July 7, 2014 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 & 4 - Again, what is your end game with your focus on cutting trips here & there as of late on other routes then....

 

6 - Of course you're gonna say that about a combination of sorts requiring less buses now, because your wanting to add service to the BM5 is under scrutiny.....

 

I took that bit about 10 minutes as sarcasm, and I can understand why he'd choose to ride the BM5 over the QM15..... But this whole exchange involving the 4 of us (incl. NewFlyer), his (BM5's) retorts has an air of disingenuity to me... Like he's purposely keeping his true intentions with the cutting of trips on other routes under wraps....

 

"Still doesnt prove though that I'm trying to enhance the BM5"

"Still doesn't mean I am asking to improve service"

 

^^ Imagine asking someone a question & someone responds like this..... It's like someone being accused of something, and the first thing out their mouth is a "prove it" type of response.... To me, it sounds guilty as hell, but whatever....

 

As far as him wanting the pick of the litter (so to speak), similar to the BxM1 & BxM2,  I don't get the sense that he wants to deal with Qm15's though.... The BM5 has less severe problems that plagues the QM15, so I'm concluding that he's in it to improve service on the BM5....

Well there is no doubt in my mind that he wants to improve the BM5, but he wants to do so at the expense of f*cking over other people's service, which is a huge no no in my book.  In a way the already does this by cutting service on one line and adding to another line that needs it more or will use it more.  That's precisely what was done when they axed the weekend X27 and X28 service.  You better believe that Staten Island got some of that service on the X10 for example on weekends. I know for sure it happens with NYCT, but I wonder if they have the ability to cut Bus express bus runs (or local runs for that matter) and then keep that money and shift it over to other lines or is that not the case since the city reimburses them for any loses?

Edited July 7, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

2 & 4 - Again, what is your end game with your focus on cutting trips here & there as of late on other routes then....

 

6 - Of course you're gonna say that about a combination of sorts requiring less buses now, because your wanting to add service to the BM5 is under scrutiny.....

 

I took that bit about 10 minutes as sarcasm, and I can understand why he'd choose to ride the BM5 over the QM15..... But this whole exchange involving the 4 of us (incl. NewFlyer), his (BM5's) retorts has an air of disingenuity to me... Like he's purposely keeping his true intentions with the cutting of trips on other routes under wraps....

 

Well there is no doubt in my mind that he wants to improve the BM5, but he wants to do so at the expense of f*cking over other people's service, which is a huge no no in my book.  In a way the   already does this by cutting service on one line and adding to another line that needs it more or will use it more.  That's precisely what was done when they axed the weekend X27 and X28 service.  You better believe that Staten Island got some of that service on the X10 for example on weekends. I know for sure it happens with NYCT, but I wonder if they have the ability to cut   Bus express bus runs (or local runs for that matter) and then keep that money and shift it over to other lines or is that not the case since the city reimburses them for any loses?

 

4/6. So just because I propose cutting a trip from a bus route automatically means I'm trying to make it towards my benefit. Is there an option that reads "I can cut a service because it just doesn't have enough ridership or is extremely redundant (in terms of ridership patterns)"? I can't voice my opinion, or something without being accused of something (and rather falsely)? If someone else had said the exact same things, would this total outcome have been different?

 

I've been constantly saying that I'm not doing this for the benefit of the BM5, yet, I've been told the exact same thing the past several times. What more am I gonna say, I said I don't want to enhance the amount of service on the BM5, yet it's the same thing over and over again. What more do you want me to say. If you want to prove me wrong, then go ahead, but I'm not going to sit here and be accused of something that I'm not.

Edited July 7, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4/6. So just because I propose cutting a trip from a bus route automatically means I'm trying to make it towards my benefit. Is there an option that reads "I can cut a service because it just doesn't have enough ridership or is extremely redundant (in terms of ridership patterns)"? I can't voice my opinion, or something without being accused of something (and rather falsely)? If someone else had said the exact same things, would this total outcome have been different?

 

I've been constantly saying that I'm not doing this for the benefit of the BM5, yet, I've been told the exact same thing the past several times. What more am I gonna say, I said I don't want to enhance the amount of service on the BM5, yet it's the same thing over and over again. What more do you want me to say. If you want to prove me wrong, then go ahead, but I'm not going to sit here and be accused of something that I'm not.

Really? You haven't only done this with the BM5.  You've done the same crappola with the QM24 too.  You bemoaned about how you didn't like the fact that service ended later and then started calling for service on the QM during the week to end earlier.  Are you telling me that was also just a coincidence?? LOL  Come on now.  Just own up to it!  I have no problem with you advocating for more service on the routes that you use, but it shouldn't be done on the backs of other express bus riders.  

Edited July 7, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Really? You haven't only done this with the BM5.  You've done the same crappola with the QM24 too.  You bemoaned about how you didn't like the fact that service ended later and then started calling for service on the QM during the week to end earlier.  Are you telling me that was also just a coincidence?? LOL  Come on now.  Just own up to it!  I have no problem with you advocating for more service on the routes that you use, but it shouldn't be done on the backs of other express bus riders.  

And what QM's did I want to end earlier? Because I only stated how I didn't like the fact that they eliminated the 9:45 AM trip.

Edited July 7, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

And what QM's did I want to end earlier? Because I only stated how I didn't like the fact that they eliminated the 9:45 AM trip.

That post should've said QM1... Must've been deleted by me accidentally... Anywho, you made a point to bring up how you monitored the route (the QM1 that is) on several occasions, and how you felt that there was too much service, and then talked about how they keep QM1 service running longer during the weekdays despite the QM5 and QM6 being options, but cut the QM24 service earlier.

[B35 via Church]

4/6. So just because I propose cutting a trip from a bus route automatically means I'm trying to make it towards my benefit. Is there an option that reads "I can cut a service because it just doesn't have enough ridership or is extremely redundant (in terms of ridership patterns)"? I can't voice my opinion, or something without being accused of something (and rather falsely)? If someone else had said the exact same things, would this total outcome have been different?

 

I've been constantly saying that I'm not doing this for the benefit of the BM5, yet, I've been told the exact same thing the past several times. What more am I gonna say, I said I don't want to enhance the amount of service on the BM5, yet it's the same thing over and over again. What more do you want me to say. If you want to prove me wrong, then go ahead, but I'm not going to sit here and be accused of something that I'm not.

Now you wanna play the innocent victim..... This isn't about someone else, this isn't about what I "want", this isn't about you not being able to voice an opinion, this isn't about you taking an accusation lying on the chin.....

 

More disingenuousness here.... It is not just cutting a trip from "a bus route" with you, and with the way you've been going on & on & on about the BM5 lately, it most certainly leads credence to it being to your benefit....

 

You wanna know why it's the same thing over & over again? Because your simple saying of not doing it for the BM5 has no backing to it... It's empty words - Especially when you've twice been asked why have you been as focused on cutting trips off other routes then (if not for the BM5).... No answer... 

 

Well there is no doubt in my mind that he wants to improve the BM5, but he wants to do so at the expense of f*cking over other people's service, which is a huge no no in my book.  In a way the already does this by cutting service on one line and adding to another line that needs it more or will use it more.  That's precisely what was done when they axed the weekend X27 and X28 service.  You better believe that Staten Island got some of that service on the X10 for example on weekends. I know for sure it happens with NYCT, but I wonder if they have the ability to cut Bus express bus runs (or local runs for that matter) and then keep that money and shift it over to other lines or is that not the case since the city reimburses them for any loses?

"Cost neutrality"...

 

Sometimes, the above practice (if you wanna call it that) isn't even done.... Trips would be combined with some other trip (which is more or less a cut)/cut without the displacement of some resource (a bus) to some other route....

 

Really? You haven't only done this with the BM5.  You've done the same crappola with the QM24 too.  You bemoaned about how you don't like the fact that service ends later and then started called for service on the QM1 midday to end earlier.  Are you telling me that was also just a coincidence?? LOL  Come on now.  Just own up to it!  

 

I have no problem with you advocating for more service on the routes that you use, but it shouldn't be done on the backs of other express bus riders.  

That's the #1 problem I have with his entire spiel.... His fixation with cutting trips off other routes, but somehow the BM5 automatically becomes immune/exempt by him, to having cuts for the same/similar reasons he feels other routes should have some trips cut on them.....

 

I don't have a problem with enhancing the BM5, but when I see this bit about cutting 6 trips from off the BM4 on a whim like that - with as much as he's being going on about the BM5, the dots become easy to connect & things start to make a little more sense..... Don't feel some type of way because you have readers putting two & two together..... And again, the nature of just how he's defending himself comes across as someone guilty.....

Edited July 7, 2014 by B35 via Church

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

That post should've said QM1... Must've been deleted by me accidentally... Anywho, you made a point to bring up how you monitored the route (the QM1 that is) on several occasions, and how you felt that there was too much service, and then talked about how they keep QM1 service running longer during the weekdays despite the QM5 and QM6 being options, but cut the QM24 service earlier.

Oh, I remember that one. Those (QM1) buses were virtually empty (and this was like one year ago). However, the QM1 proposal from me (I still feel the same way about the QM1 as I did back then) was around for way longer than before. This was like since I first came here, or something afterward.

Now you wanna play the innocent victim..... This isn't about someone else, this isn't about what I "want", this isn't about you not being able to voice an opinion, this isn't about you taking an accusation lying on the chin.....

 

More disingenuousness here.... It is not just cutting a trip from "a bus route" with you, and with the way you've been going on & on & on about the BM5 lately, it most certainly leads credence to it being to your benefit....

 

You wanna know why it's the same thing over & over again? Because your simple saying of not doing it for the BM5 has no backing to it... It's empty words - Especially when you've twice been asked why have you been as focused on cutting trips off other routes then (if not for the BM5).... No answer... 

 

I don't have a problem with enhancing the BM5, but when I see this bit about cutting 6 trips from off the BM4 on a whim like that - with as much as he's being going on about the BM5, the dots become easy to connect & things start to make a little more sense..... Don't feel some type of way because you have readers putting two & two together..... And again, the nature of just how he's defending himself comes across as someone guilty.....

(In Bold) The answer is literally in the post you quoted.

 

4/6. So just because I propose cutting a trip from a bus route automatically means I'm trying to make it towards my benefit. Is there an option that reads "I can cut a service because it just doesn't have enough ridership or is extremely redundant (in terms of ridership patterns)"? I can't voice my opinion, or something without being accused of something (and rather falsely)? If someone else had said the exact same things, would this total outcome have been different?

In my opinion.

 

And yeah, everyone notices that I cut trips from the BM4 and think I'm doing it for the BM5 (another proposal I've had for QUITE a while), yet nobody seems to notice:

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35015-brooklyn-bus-proposalsideas-thread/?p=779189

 

 

And to say I've focused on the BM5 and that I've been fixated on it is a flat out lie, because I've spent much more time on the other BM's (all 1-4) and tried to see ways to improve ridership, especially as of late.

Edited July 7, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Now you wanna play the innocent victim..... This isn't about someone else, this isn't about what I "want", this isn't about you not being able to voice an opinion, this isn't about you taking an accusation lying on the chin.....

 

More disingenuousness here.... It is not just cutting a trip from "a bus route" with you, and with the way you've been going on & on & on about the BM5 lately, it most certainly leads credence to it being to your benefit....

 

You wanna know why it's the same thing over & over again? Because your simple saying of not doing it for the BM5 has no backing to it... It's empty words - Especially when you've twice been asked why have you been as focused on cutting trips off other routes then (if not for the BM5).... No answer... 

 

That's the #1 problem I have with his entire spiel.... His fixation with cutting trips off other routes, but somehow the BM5 automatically becomes immune/exempt by him, to having cuts for the same/similar reasons he feels other routes should have some trips cut on them.....

 

I don't have a problem with enhancing the BM5, but when I see this bit about cutting 6 trips from off the BM4 on a whim like that - with as much as he's being going on about the BM5, the dots become easy to connect & things start to make a little more sense..... Don't feel some type of way because you have readers putting two & two together..... And again, the nature of just how he's defending himself comes across as someone guilty.....

Exactly... I'm sorry but I've seen plenty of empty BM5's in the city both to Manhattan and Brooklyn bound, so the notion that somehow the BM5 is doing oh so great suddenly is just preposterous.  It's slightly better than a few other routes in terms of ridership, but the exaggeration that is being used is a bit much to say the least.  It only serves 34th to 57th street in the city anyway, so it has fewer places to gather ridership from then say the BM4 which has a Midtown and Downtown pick-up and drop-off segment.  The same is true of the BxM4 which serves 125th street to 23rd street.  The BM5 is essentially a Super Express route which is more likely to see cuts than routes that make more stops because it does have alternatives in some parts... The BM2 and the QM15.

 

 

Oh, I remember that one. Those (QM1) buses were virtually empty (and this was like one year ago). However, the QM1 proposal from me (I still feel the same way about the QM1 as I did back then) was around for way longer than before. This was like since I first came here, or something afterward.

(In Bold) The answer is literally in the post you quoted.

 

In my opinion.

Like BM5's aren't running virtually empty at times... Nice try though... LOL

Edited July 7, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

 

1. Exactly... I'm sorry but I've seen plenty of empty BM5's in the city both to Manhattan and Brooklyn bound, so the notion that somehow the BM5 is doing oh so great suddenly is just preposterous.  It's slightly better than a few other routes in terms of ridership, but the exaggeration that is being used is a bit much to say the least.  It only serves 34th to 57th street in the city anyway, so it has fewer places to gather ridership from then say the BM4 which has a Midtown and Downtown pick-up and drop-off segment.  The same is true of the BxM4 which serves 125th street to 23rd street.  The BM5 is essentially a Super Express route which is more likely to see cuts than routes that make more stops because it does have alternatives in some parts... The BM2 and the QM15.

 

 

2. Like BM5's aren't running virtually empty at times... Nice try though... LOL

 

1. The BM2 is in no way an alternative to the BM5. The QM15 yeah, but good luck trying to get anyone on the 2.

 

2. Of course, almost every express bus line has several. I've even admitted it before 

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/36363-247-express-bus-service/?p=568342 (in which one post down, you agreed with me on that point).

Edited July 7, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[B35 via Church]

(In Bold) The answer is literally in the post you quoted.

 

In my opinion.

 

And yeah, everyone notices that I cut trips from the BM4 and think I'm doing it for the BM5 (another proposal I've had for QUITE a while), yet nobody seems to notice:

 

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35015-brooklyn-bus-proposalsideas-thread/?p=779189

 

 

And to say I've focused on the BM5 and that I've been fixated on it is a flat out lie, because I've spent much more time on the other BM's (all 1-4) and tried to see ways to improve ridership, especially as of late.

- So now I see... Your answer to a question, is a question....

Alright then, the evasive tactics continue.....

 

You haven't been fixated on the Bm5 as of late? Really..... Explain your sig' then......

You have talked more about the Bm5 more than you've talked about the other BM's... especially ever since you've changed your forum handle....

 

Exactly... I'm sorry but I've seen plenty of empty BM5's in the city both to Manhattan and Brooklyn bound, so the notion that somehow the BM5 is doing oh so great suddenly is just preposterous.  It's slightly better than a few other routes in terms of ridership, but the exaggeration that is being used is a bit much to say the least.  It only serves 34th to 57th street in the city anyway, so it has fewer places to gather ridership from then say the BM4 which has a Midtown and Downtown pick-up and drop-off segment.  The same is true of the BxM4 which serves 125th street to 23rd street.  The BM5 is essentially a Super Express route which is more likely to see cuts than routes that make more stops because it does have alternatives in some parts... The BM2 and the QM15.

The embellishment of the BM5 is just plain crazy.... Has it seen increased ridership since the addition of stops along Woodhaven, yeah... But with the way he's talking about the route, you'd have thought (off peak ridership) is seeing much more than 8-10 riders.....

Edited July 7, 2014 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1. The BM2 is in no way an alternative to the BM5. The QM15 yeah, but good luck trying to get anyone on the 2.

Seeing that the BM2 and BM5 both terminate at the same place, the BM2 is an alternative, which some may choose not to use, but it's still an alternative in some cases.

 

 

I'm not resorting to answering riddles to find an answer to a prior question.....

 

You haven't been fixated on the Bm5 as of late? Really..... Explain your sig' then......

You have talked more about the Bm5 more than you've talked about the other BM's... especially ever since you've changed your forum handle....

 

The embellishment of the BM5 is just plain crazy.... Has it seen increased ridership since the addition of stops along Woodhaven, yeah... But with the way he's talking about the route, you'd have thought (off peak ridership) is seeing much more than 8-10 riders.....

LMAO... Not only the signature, but the BM5 "ad" as well.... 

Edited July 7, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. I'm not resorting to answering riddles to find an answer to a prior question.....

 

2. You haven't been fixated on the Bm5 as of late? Really..... Explain your sig' then......

You have talked more about the Bm5 more than you've talked about the other BM's... especially ever since you've changed your forum handle....

 

3. The embellishment of the BM5 is just plain crazy.... Has it seen increased ridership since the addition of stops along Woodhaven, yeah... But with the way he's talking about the route, you'd have thought (off peak ridership) is seeing much more than 8-10 riders.....

1. It was not a riddle. It was a rhetorical question.

 

2. Yeah, the BM5 is one of my most prefered routes to take, but that doesn't mean I'm fixated on it. Outside of this general conversation, when in the last few weeks or so have made a statement of the BM5, or that it's gold. If anything, I've been talking about how I've ridden the route and the ridership patterns on occasion. However, the BM5 is not the subject of my day. My signature is only one thing, and I haven't been rumbling on about the BM5. Maybe a post here or two.

 

 

3. Yeah, most trips to Manhattan during off peak hours do 7-8 riders, sometimes up to even 13. It had a 20,000 ridership increase from 2010-2011 (annual ridership). Going to Queens, I can't say the same thing, you'll have your 2 riders.

 

1. Seeing that the BM2 and BM5 both terminate at the same place, the BM2 is an alternative, which some may choose not to use, but it's still an alternative in some cases.

 

 

2. LMAO... Not only the signature, but the BM5 "ad" as well.... 

 

1.The BM2 to Midtown originates in Canarsie, while the BM5 originates within Starett City. You might as well take the B82 to the . 

 

2. The sig and the "ad" are the same thing.

Edited July 7, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven