BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Well now somebody is obsessed with the BM5... Don't you have access to the QM15 too? 

Yeah. Like the same thing could be said to people north of Avenue K/ Ocean Avenue on the BM1/3/4, and the residents west of 188 on Union Tpke with the QM1/5/6. We all would like to keep all the service we can. They are used differently, and most have a nice load.

Edited July 4, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Cait Sith]

As per the latest code updates for MTA Bus, they now have shuttle codes for subway lines like the 7 to Queensboro Plaza and so on and so forth.

[East New York]

As per the latest code updates for MTA Bus, they now have shuttle codes for subway lines like the 7 to Queensboro Plaza and so on and so forth.

 

I think I saw a 2 shuttle sign on a Spring Creek bus not too long ago. I assumed it was a Gleason bus till it got closer. 

[Calvin]

Does MTA BUS and NYC BUS have different fareboxes?

[East New York]

Does MTA BUS and NYC BUS have different fareboxes?

 

Same type of farebox, but programmed different for each division

Edited July 4, 2014 by East New York

[NYSubwayBuff]

@ENY Really? I thought the farevoxes were different. The bottom of each farebox is different and the openings for which you stick the vacuum in to collect to coins is different on MTAB and NYCT

[mta B43]

4956 is on the B24 now if anyone is interested.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

@ENY Really? I thought the farevoxes were different. The bottom of each farebox is different and the openings for which you stick the vacuum in to collect to coins is different on MTAB and NYCT

The one thing I do like about the Bus express bus is that in the past there was more room to get on the bus in comparison to the old school MCI's that NYCT had. Now that's probably changed, as the Prevosts are easy to get on and seem to have enough room to get by the farebox with bags, etc.

[B35 via Church]

Which bus has a less cost per rider, you tell me: a bus with a 50 minute run time with 2 passengers, or one with a 70 minute runtime with 4 passengers.

 

If I did it right (Per Rider)

               Wkday Cost                       Saturday Cost             6 day cost

QM4       $9.73                                  ~ $40.00                     $13.62

BM5       $10.06                                  $36.63                       $13.39

 

 

Which is gonna be cut first

Those weekday numbers doesn't help your argument... just sayin....

[SevenEleven]

The one thing I do like about the Bus express bus is that in the past there was more room to get on the bus in comparison to the old school MCI's that NYCT had. Now that's probably changed, as the Prevosts are easy to get on and seem to have enough room to get by the farebox with bags, etc.

The setup of the stanchions are different around the farebox on the Bus MCIs, thus the extra space.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

The setup of the stanchions are different around the farebox on the Bus MCIs, thus the extra space.

Yeah, why the difference?

[ttcsubwayfan]

Do any D60s run on routes near Times Square?

[XcelsiorBoii4888]

Do any D60s run on routes near Times Square?

Nope, all the crosstown routes and uptown routes near Times Square use regular 40ft buses. The closest crosstown route that use D60s is the M23 on 23st, and the closest uptown routes that use D60s are the M101, 102, and 103.

Edited July 5, 2014 by XcelsiorBoii4888

[ttcsubwayfan]

Damn, that sucks. Oh well, thanks for the info anyway.

 

What about near Battery Park?

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Damn, that sucks. Oh well, thanks for the info anyway.

 

What about near Battery Park?

M15 runs D60s. And further up by City Hall you can check out the M103 if you're downtown.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Thanks, much appreciated!

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Those weekday numbers doesn't help your argument... just sayin....

Sure it doesn't. The point I'm trying to make is, which has the least fluctuation and better overall cost (better bang for the buck, essentially). In addition did tally up results on annual ridership (cost per rider) for the QM4 and BM5, and they were $28.06 and $18.00, respectively.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Sure it doesn't. The point I'm trying to make is, which has the least fluctuation and better overall cost (better bang for the buck, essentially). In addition did tally up results on annual ridership (cost per rider) for the QM4 and BM5, and they were $28.06 and $18.00, respectively.

You really need to stop advocating for cutting other people's express bus service while shouting to keep yours. Really a double standard to say the least... 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

You really need to stop advocating for cutting other people's express bus service while shouting to keep yours. Really a double standard to say the least...

When did I say I wanted to cut it? All I trying to prevail was that since the cuts service (especially the express) outta nowhere, which would get a reduction first.

 

You don't see me advocating for the QM18, QM3, QM21, or even the BxM4 to get a reduction in service (and that has similar ridership to the QM4). Hell, I would just leave it as it is. To me, however, it comes down to two points:

1.Ridership

2. Potential Growth of Ridership over time.

 

Now that you bring it up, if a significant amount of runs have very low ridership (< 5by my standards) over prolonged periods of time, then a reduction should be looked at or something (unless the route meets my previous point of growth or if ridership is just sporadic enough).

[Via Garibaldi 8]

When did I say I wanted to cut it? All I trying to prevail was that since the cuts service (especially the express) outta nowhere, which would get a reduction first.

 

You don't see me advocating for the QM18, QM3, QM21, or even the BxM4 to get a reduction in service (and that has similar ridership to the QM4). Hell, I would just leave it as it is. To me, however, it comes down to two points:

1.Ridership

2. Potential Growth of Ridership over time.

 

Now that you bring it up, if a significant amount of runs have very low ridership (< 5by my standards) over prolonged periods of time, then a reduction should be looked at or something (unless the route meets my previous point of growth or if ridership is just sporadic enough).

lol... You and a few others keep harping on a non issue.  There are very few express buses that have this issue that have not had trips cut or haven't been cut entirely, and the buses that have trips with a only a few riders are far and few in between.  If you cut those runs, you would start cutting into the core ridership and deter ridership.  That's why no cuts were made on any Bus express buses for the summer pick.  This argument could be made for some local buses too. The only difference is their cost, so if those buses are around then the same should be the case for express buses.  There will be times when ridership will be low on both local buses and express buses and that's just the way it is.  The only way to encourage more ridership is stop harping on cutting service and focus more on better and more reliable service, even during periods when ridership is not high.  I think the has finally realized this and is trying to right a wrong.  Hopefully it isn't too late.

 

I of all people do a lot of travel during off-peak periods usually on purpose to avoid the crowds, so I see what express buses and local buses carry, and in a lot of cases, you have regulars that use those buses that would be left stranded or would have to find an alternate way around.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

lol... You and a few others keep harping on a non issue.  There are very few express buses that have this issue that have no had trips cut or haven't been cut entirely, and the buses that have trips with a only a few riders are far and few in between.  If you cut those runs, you would start cutting into the core ridership and deter ridership.  That's why no cuts were made on any Bus express buses for the summer pick.  This argument could be made for some local buses too. The only difference is their cost, so if those buses are around then the same should be the case for express buses.  There will be times when ridership will be low on both local buses and express buses and that's just the way it is.  The only way to encourage more ridership is stop harping on cutting service and focus more on better and more reliable service, even during periods when ridership is not high.  I think the has finally realized this and is trying to right a wrong.  Hopefully it isn't too late.

 

I of all people do a lot of travel during off-peak periods usually on purpose to avoid the crowds, so I see what express buses and local buses carry, and in a lot of cases, you have regulars that use those buses that would be left stranded or would have to find an alternate way around.

 

There are some runs that could be cut in general, but with a cut, you would do it one run at a time, not several at a time (which is what the MTA has done all along, how do you think they got away with the cuts to the BxM3/BxM4 and the BM's all this time). The only exception with the BM's is, they both raised the headways and cut trips at the same time, so it looks like it wasn't drastically hit (which, to me, was unjustified for the Kips Bay, Mill Basin, and Canarsie express. From those three, the current trips right now should be saved). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few trips with few riders, there's at least one on many routes. The only exception would be Staten Island, since they do use the express buses there.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

There are some runs that could be cut in general, but with a cut, you would do it one run at a time, not several at a time (which is what the MTA has done all along, how do you think they got away with the cuts to the BxM3/BxM4 and the BM's all this time). The only exception with the BM's is, they both raised the headways and cut trips at the same time, so it looks like it wasn't drastically hit (which, to me, was unjustified for the Kips Bay, Mill Basin, and Canarsie express. From those three, the current trips right now should be saved). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few trips with few riders, there's at least one on many routes. The only exception would be Staten Island, since they do use the express buses there.

I know all of this because I was affected by some of those cuts, as were others. That's the whole point... Of course more trips can be cut.  They're kept for a reason which I've already stated.  You keep harping on it though.  It's a broken record.  The same could be said for several local bus trips as well.  More service cuts deters ridership.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

Sure it doesn't. The point I'm trying to make is, which has the least fluctuation and better overall cost (better bang for the buck, essentially).

In addition did tally up results on annual ridership (cost per rider) for the QM4 and BM5, and they were $28.06 and $18.00, respectively.

What do you mean "sure it doesn't"? Your entire counter-argument is centered around which bus had a lower cost per rider....

 

The figures you calculated & shown yourself here.... Debunks your own argument - Unless you're really trying to convey that the QM4 would perhaps be cut first, because it has a lower cost per rider on saturdays.....

 

The rest of this about least fluctuation (whatever that's supposed to mean, as it pertains to cost per rider) & better overall cost is nonsense, due to the fact that the vast majority of commuters ride express buses during the weekday, compared to the weekend.... You can't skate around that like that's a non-factor......

 

Far as those annual figures there.... They're based off of the amount of riders per trip of both those routes throughout the year..... Being that the BM5 has less trips/day, I should hope the annual figure for the BM5 is lower......

 

The real question is, if the BM5 had as many trips as the QM4 does, would you be on here advocating for BM5 cuts......

 

You really need to stop advocating for cutting other people's express bus service while shouting to keep yours. Really a double standard to say the least... 

What it looks like he tries to do is worse IMO.... read reply below...

 

There are some runs that could be cut in general, but with a cut, you would do it one run at a time, not several at a time (which is what the MTA has done all along, how do you think they got away with the cuts to the BxM3/BxM4 and the BM's all this time). The only exception with the BM's is, they both raised the headways and cut trips at the same time, so it looks like it wasn't drastically hit (which, to me, was unjustified for the Kips Bay, Mill Basin, and Canarsie express. From those three, the current trips right now should be saved). I'm pretty sure there's more than a few trips with few riders, there's at least one on many routes. The only exception would be Staten Island, since they do use the express buses there.

Yeah... some runs that could be cut in general... So those savings can go towards improving BM5 service, I suppose.....

That's what it's been looking like with all this recent BM5/QM15 talk out of you.... 

 

You act like this few trips with a few riders thing doesn't apply to the BM5....

 

The QM4 performs better than the BM5. You can tell that the BM5 is struggling if it has to make stop in Queens instead of Brooklyn only. Take away that Queens portion and watch how much it hurts the BM5. In my opinion the QM15 has Woodhaven covered it's just the reliability that needs to be fixed.

If the Qm4 had the same/similar amount of trips as the BM5, I'd agree with your first statement 100%.... As is though, there are more emptier QM4 trips than there are emptier BM5 trips (so by default, BM5 Woodhaven can easily argue that the BM5 "performs" better than the QM4)..... Personally, I wouldn't be as quick to say one outperforms the other, either way.....

 

Your other point is spot on.... Woodhaven doesn't need the BM5 making those select few stops along it; To this day I still think that they had BM5's make a couple stops off in Queens, as to not boost QM15 service.... Whereas the BM5 sorely needed that secondary riderbase, and people like BM5 Woodhaven should be grateful that the route is still intact, not sitting up here looking for ways to cut trips off other routes so they can go towards the BM5.....

 

I mean, I wouldn't be sitting up here making some inane point that the express bus I use, is used more than a whopping grand total of 4 other exp. routes on weekdays.... Bear in mind that there are 63 express routes in our system..... How did moral victories pan out for routes like the the x90? the x29? the x18?

[Cait Sith]

 

Just thought I'd share this. Taken at the Avenue A M8 stop.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1. What do you mean "sure it doesn't"? Your entire counter-argument is centered around which bus had a lower cost per rider....

 

2. The figures you calculated & shown yourself here.... Debunks your own argument - Unless you're really trying to convey that the QM4 would perhaps be cut first, because it has a lower cost per rider on saturdays.....

 

3.The rest of this about least fluctuation (whatever that's supposed to mean, as it pertains to cost per rider) & better overall cost is nonsense, due to the fact that the vast majority of commuters ride express buses during the weekday, compared to the weekend.... You can't skate around that like that's a non-factor......

 

Far as those annual figures there.... They're based off of the amount of riders per trip of both those routes throughout the year..... Being that the BM5 has less trips/day, I should hope the annual figure for the BM5 is lower......

 

4. The real question is, if the BM5 had as many trips as the QM4 does, would you be on here advocating for BM5 cuts......

 

5.Yeah... some runs that could be cut in general... So those savings can go towards improving BM5 service, I suppose.....

That's what it's been looking like with all this recent BM5/QM15 talk out of you.... 

 

6. You act like this few trips with a few riders thing doesn't apply to the BM5....

 

If the Qm4 had the same/similar amount of trips as the BM5, I'd agree with your first statement 100%.... As is though, there are more emptier QM4 trips than there are emptier BM5 trips (so by default, BM5 Woodhaven can easily argue that the BM5 "performs" better than the QM4)..... Personally, I wouldn't be as quick to say one outperforms the other, either way.....

 

Your other point is spot on.... Woodhaven doesn't need the BM5 making those select few stops along it; To this day I still think that they had BM5's make a couple stops off in Queens, as to not boost QM15 service.... Whereas the BM5 sorely needed that secondary riderbase, and people like BM5 Woodhaven should be grateful that the route is still intact, not sitting up here looking for ways to cut trips off other routes so they can go towards the BM5.....

 

I mean, I wouldn't be sitting up here making some inane point that the express bus I use, is used more than a whopping grand total of 4 other exp. routes on weekdays.... Bear in mind that there are 63 express routes in our system..... How did moral victories pan out for routes like the the x90? the x29? the x18?

1/2. The BM5 overall has a lower cost per rider though. I'm not also gonna say that the QM4 is completely useless on Saturdays (for me to say that would be a lie, as there are several trips that carry good loads in the AM and PM to and from Manhattan, respectively). They might look into cutting several trips, but they won't do all at once. 

 

3. The BM5 has a longer runtime (70 minutes, compared to 50 minutes for the QM4), but still, there's less trips, so it's less money spent. I never said that there would be cuts in rush hour express bus service. By least fluctuation I meant which has the least range in service, and which would have the better average in cost per rider. The annual figure is also less because the BM5 runs only 307 days a year, whereas the QM4 runs all 365 days. 

 

4. If it ran like up to 4 PM like it did, then yeah. Because after the 1:23 PM QM15 bus departing 63 Drive, the only route there should be the QM15 (I don't see much ridership coming out from later trips. The QM15 doesn't even pick up much afterward to the fact where the two routes should run. It's not like Union Tpke where the QM6 is needed for coverage.

 

5. Yes, because my whole plan all along was to for the BM5 to run from 5 AM to 11 PM every day on 10 minute frequencies...

 

6. 11:40 AM into Queens. That's all I'll say. And to say that I want the service to go to the BM5 is a lie because I've been on the opposite side before:

http://www.nyctransitforums.com/forums/topic/35015-brooklyn-bus-proposalsideas-thread/?p=756913

 

7. I was talking about full time lines or lines with all day service (or throughout most of the day). If it included rush hour only routes, it would be more.

Edited July 6, 2014 by BM5 via Woodhaven