Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[NY1635]

When Veolia took over, all of the current routes in the system weren't planned to stay around anyway..... I'm surprised these cuts haven't happened within like the first 6 mos. after the takeover, to be honest.....

 

As for the linked video clip.... What's this about walking from RFM to Westbury due to a bus never showing up.... 

(The b/o of the n24 that ended at RFM (like he was supposed to) in his story, did the right thing... It's out of his/her power to "help out" w/e pax that were left hung out to dry at RFM that needed the n22 - Regardless if it was on a sunday...)

 

The n24 runs hourly on Sundays, which leaves the n22 to handle people between RFM and Hicksville

[Tom Meadow]

The n24 runs hourly on Sundays, which leaves the n22 to handle people between RFM and Hicksville

which leaves pinepower complaining about walking cause a bus went out of service.

[NY1635]

which leaves pinepower complaining about walking cause a bus went out of service.

 

He always complains about the n22, dude seriously expects NICE to somehow grant the same level of service as the n6, even though the n22 has it slightly better than most routes.

[DetSMART45]

The cutbacks talk:

Read the Newsday article, and the "chief" of NICE alleges on one route only 5 people ride. Hmmm, kinda suspect, especially given that if the route was already in operation when Transdev ("experts" in transportation) took over, how did that pass before as OK but now it's a problem?

 

Problem is that Nassau/you-know-who, "genius" that he claims to be, never properly planned the whole thing out when wrenching it from the clutches of the EVIL MTA ("city" folks).  Since the majority of the county's budget hinges on sales tax revenue (ooh boy), why not have the voters pass, like Columbus, Ohio, a renewable minor sales tax that is specifically directed to NICE funding?  Columbus started out with a 0.025 rate in the 1990s, then made it 0.25 permanent -- but that original was only for 10 years, and if COTA wasn't performing, they could turn it down.  Other communities do the same, some with permanent, others with certain term renewals.

 

SMART operates on ~$66 million generated by participating communties' property taxes (close to 60% of its budget income) -- which costs an "average" homeowner around $100/year -- and that was before the 2015 increase voters decided to go forward with.  They operate under 300 buses (fixed route), have no 24 hour service, and serve 1/3 of NICE per-day count.  Total budget: $104 million (2015), $108 million (2016).

 

Pretty pitiful for one of the "affluent" suburban NYC counties to have a budget of only $40-some million, when an area like ours -- chock full of bus-haters ("Motor City", after all) -- funds its bus system over 2.5 times better.

[mac5689]

The cutbacks talk:

Read the Newsday article, and the "chief" of NICE alleges on one route only 5 people ride. Hmmm, kinda suspect, especially given that if the route was already in operation when Transdev ("experts" in transportation) took over, how did that pass before as OK but now it's a problem?

 

I wouldn't find that to much suspect. There have been a few people over the years that claimed that the either the N80/N81 should have been cut or mergered into one route because of low ridership. If I remember correctly someone said once that one N80 run had about 5 people on it. 

[DetSMART45]

I wouldn't find that to much suspect. There have been a few people over the years that claimed that the either the N80/N81 should have been cut or mergered into one route because of low ridership. If I remember correctly someone said once that one N80 run had about 5 people on it. 

One route is not going to break the bank of the entire system.  Heck, just reading through some MTA board meeting materials, and the new QM routing was going to cost an extra $30,000 per year because of drive time going the new way in Manhattan versus the old -- a pittance not only to those three routes' budget, but the overall MTA one.

 

It's suspect to me because, as I said, Transdev was hired because of their expertise in operating bus systems.  It was also a way to skate out from responsibility for the county.  This one route -- if it was already that much of a money drain -- could have been modified a long time ago, whether by cutting hours, removing segments (select trips only), or complete discontinuation.  But you're not doing anyone "favors" if you let it continue being a drain on the system -- and THAT is what Transdev is supposed to be "expert" at.

 

They should have taken advantage of the opportunity presented to them when MTA raised fares a quarter and just got it over and done with.  AND at that time, let it be known that the fare increase was only a minor stop-gap toward resolving the deficit, and other reductions would be coming down the line.

 

When SMART raised fares because of a similar situation in 2009, it was made known that there would be further cuts, and during two years, they got their labor force to agree to cuts of their own -- and if not, severe service cuts would be made, meaning jobs lost either outright or through hour cuts.  In 2011, when funding was getting pretty dicey (since, as I said before, around 60% of the budget comes from taxation derived off property values) because of the recession, some cuts were made -- underperforming routes, and Detroit service outside of weekday AM and PM peak.  The difference was that the underpeforming routes had a two-year window of opportunity to prove themselves, and for accurate decisions to be made.

 

In that light, Transdev has failed YET AGAIN.  In under 6 months of taking the reigns, they made drastic service cuts similar to the ones MTA was going to make, but their hiring was touted as "saving" riders from those types of cuts.  So those last cuts were in 2012.  It's now three years later, and things haven't been any nicer toward NICE out of the Executive's office over this time, and NOW Transdev decides to spring this on its riders.  Transdev should have been making adjustments throughout this period -- once again, because they're the experts -- because this deficit didn't just happen two days ago, it's been an on-going issue. But then again, they've been sure to take their "fees" off the top, irregardless of the service that's actually provided -- pretty good gig.  So why would they do anything but take the leftover cash and divvy it up to run the system, because they obviously don't have a Performance clause in their contract, so they're not out anything in this whole scheme ----- the riders are left holding the bag.

 

Oh, and the Executive office can minimize its culpability.  But then again, hands there wouldn't need to be washed of any NICE problems.  It was all supposed to be handled by the "experts".

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

One route is not going to break the bank of the entire system.  Heck, just reading through some MTA board meeting materials, and the new QM routing was going to cost an extra $30,000 per year because of drive time going the new way in Manhattan versus the old -- a pittance not only to those three routes' budget, but the overall MTA one.

 

It's suspect to me because, as I said, Transdev was hired because of their expertise in operating bus systems.  It was also a way to skate out from responsibility for the county.  This one route -- if it was already that much of a money drain -- could have been modified a long time ago, whether by cutting hours, removing segments (select trips only), or complete discontinuation.  But you're not doing anyone "favors" if you let it continue being a drain on the system -- and THAT is what Transdev is supposed to be "expert" at.

 

They should have taken advantage of the opportunity presented to them when MTA raised fares a quarter and just got it over and done with.  AND at that time, let it be known that the fare increase was only a minor stop-gap toward resolving the deficit, and other reductions would be coming down the line.

 

When SMART raised fares because of a similar situation in 2009, it was made known that there would be further cuts, and during two years, they got their labor force to agree to cuts of their own -- and if not, severe service cuts would be made, meaning jobs lost either outright or through hour cuts.  In 2011, when funding was getting pretty dicey (since, as I said before, around 60% of the budget comes from taxation derived off property values) because of the recession, some cuts were made -- underperforming routes, and Detroit service outside of weekday AM and PM peak.  The difference was that the underpeforming routes had a two-year window of opportunity to prove themselves, and for accurate decisions to be made.

 

In that light, Transdev has failed YET AGAIN.  In under 6 months of taking the reigns, they made drastic service cuts similar to the ones MTA was going to make, but their hiring was touted as "saving" riders from those types of cuts.  So those last cuts were in 2012.  It's now three years later, and things haven't been any nicer toward NICE out of the Executive's office over this time, and NOW Transdev decides to spring this on its riders.  Transdev should have been making adjustments throughout this period -- once again, because they're the experts -- because this deficit didn't just happen two days ago, it's been an on-going issue. But then again, they've been sure to take their "fees" off the top, irregardless of the service that's actually provided -- pretty good gig.  So why would they do anything but take the leftover cash and divvy it up to run the system, because they obviously don't have a Performance clause in their contract, so they're not out anything in this whole scheme ----- the riders are left holding the bag.

 

Oh, and the Executive office can minimize its culpability.  But then again, hands there wouldn't need to be washed of any NICE problems.  It was all supposed to be handled by the "experts".

 

The n14 originally ran all day weekdays, running every 10 minutes during weekdays, and I forgot how often it ran middays. Midday service was since cut, and rush hour service has been cut to run every 20-25 minutes. However I believe that will do nothing, besides cut most of the waste (the route in reality is a waste in general). 

 

NICE has tried cutting corners, but I think that's biting them in the ass with the breakdowns, and the needs for maintenance and NICE vehicles having to report to these sites. There's also that the system is not run properly, as some account mentioned fare beating on the bus, which may have to partially do with this.

 

While one poor bus route will not break NICE's bank, there are more of these routes than more productive routes (productive routes meaning that they have a farebox recovery of 60% by my terms).

Edited September 20, 2015 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[MTA Orion Bus]

Does anyone here work for NICE?

[Tom Meadow]

Gee I wonder where the phony John from flushing is.I am really sure that he is a troll constantly asking questions about nice than disappeared.

[Hound]

Does anyone here work for NICE?

NICE sucks.

[Tom Meadow]

Rest in peace foothill bus 1001 and 1016 and unknown bus.

[MTA Orion Bus]

A NICE dispatcher rearended his Ford SUV into some sort of sedan today in Westbury.

[Armandito]

Here's a new NICE route I came up with: http://mapq.st/1LugRUt

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I don't see the need of the route north of Lake Success. The n25/26 have that are on lock. I'm not sure on Nassau Blvd needing bus service (nor the residents there wanting them run), so I can't comment on that. In the south, the fact that this doesn't serve a major transfer point, either RVC or Lynbrook, will lead to low ridership, and that's guaranteed. If such a route was hypothethically created, I would prefer it to go to Lynbrook. Now, the problem is that this route duplicates both the LIRR and the n15. At best I would keep it as an LIJ to Lynbrook route, but even then, I still think the route will not have decent ridership. NICE doesn't even have the equipment for another route, in addition.

[FamousNYLover]

As part of Car Free Day LI, I took n2/8 Green Acres Loop, and I took 11:15 n2 Green Acres Loop at 11:18 at Meecham Av/Hempstead Turnpike and NICE Bus made mistake. n2/8 is busy at midday, so is n81 bus which is lifeline for Briarclfif College student.

[NY1635]

As part of Car Free Day LI, I took n2/8 Green Acres Loop, and I took 11:15 n2 Green Acres Loop at 11:18 at Meecham Av/Hempstead Turnpike and NICE Bus made mistake. n2/8 is busy at midday, so is n81 bus which is lifeline for Briarclfif College student.

But the n1 is way more direct at getting people to/from Green Acres than the n2/8. I don't think the folks who live at Meacham Ave, or Hook Creek need the n2/8.

[FamousNYLover]

But the n1 is way more direct at getting people to/from Green Acres than the n2/8. I don't think the folks who live at Meacham Ave, or Hook Creek need the n2/8.

They do. Some folks don't live close to n1. n2/8 serves major schools and some business area.

[N6 Limited]

I don't see the need of the route north of Lake Success. The n25/26 have that are on lock. I'm not sure on Nassau Blvd needing bus service (nor the residents there wanting them run), so I can't comment on that. In the south, the fact that this doesn't serve a major transfer point, either RVC or Lynbrook, will lead to low ridership, and that's guaranteed. If such a route was hypothethically created, I would prefer it to go to Lynbrook. Now, the problem is that this route duplicates both the LIRR and the n15. At best I would keep it as an LIJ to Lynbrook route, but even then, I still think the route will not have decent ridership. NICE doesn't even have the equipment for another route, in addition.

But what you're suggesting duplicates the N25.

 

But the n1 is way more direct at getting people to/from Green Acres than the n2/8. I don't think the folks who live at Meacham Ave, or Hook Creek need the n2/8.

Meacham Ave is far from the n1,  there are people who use the n2/8 it during rush hours. The N2 carried good loads to/from Jamaica before it was cut. 

 

Some of these routes may actually see an increase in ridership as information about real-time information spreads. I've actually been using the bus more since real-time information became available. 

 

According to the new NICE Command Center they know when buses are "full" in real time so I wonder if they'll let the public know somehow.

I've seen like 15-20 people at Springfield Blvd get passed by n6 buses, I still can't believe they had the n6x bypass that stop when it was first implemented. 

[JFK Depot]

NICE isn't so NICE... NICE has went downhill since the split from MTA... And if ANYONE out in Nassau was smart they would've fought to SAVE MTA Long Island Bus... That Mangano guy is an idiot

Blame him for why NICE isn't so NICE

Edited September 23, 2015 by JFK Depot

[FamousNYLover]

NICE isn't so NICE... NICE has went downhill since the split from MTA... And if ANYONE out in Nassau was smart they would've fought to SAVE MTA Long Island Bus... That Mangano guy is an idiot

Blame him for why NICE isn't so NICE

Cindy the former TWU Local/MTA Long Island Bus/Veolia NICE Bus from Coalition to Save Long Island Bus and Nassau County Legislator Solages fought against private bus company.

[N6 Limited]

NICE isn't so NICE... NICE has went downhill since the split from MTA... And if ANYONE out in Nassau was smart they would've fought to SAVE MTA Long Island Bus... That Mangano guy is an idiot

Blame him for why NICE isn't so NICE

People will always complain, LIB had TONS of complaints. Now with revisionist history, MTA Long Island Bus was "super awesome". 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

But what you're suggesting duplicates the N25.

That is true, hence why I said that I still don't see much ridership coming from it.

[Joel Up Front]

NICE isn't so NICE... NICE has went downhill since the split from MTA... And if ANYONE out in Nassau was smart they would've fought to SAVE MTA Long Island Bus... That Mangano guy is an idiot

Blame him for why NICE isn't so NICE

I hated riding LIB with all my heart, believe me.

[N6 Limited]

I hated riding LIB with all my heart, believe me.

Right. With LIB buses broke down all the time, especially in the summer. I've been on several buses that have broken down and we had to wait for the next one to pick us up, IF there was room.

 

Buses were late, and sometimes there were missing runs.  The maintenance of these OLD buses comes down to how they were taken care of from the beginning under LIB. LIB had poor maintenance and their older fleet is showing the results of their poor maintenance. 

 

Doesn't anyone remember when over 50% of MTA LONG ISLAND BUS buses failed inspection? 

 

This article shows that it wasn't just LIB buses that the MTA failed to properly inspect/maintain:

DiNapoli: MTA failed to properly inspect buses: http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/dinapoli-mta-failed-to-properly-inspect-buses-1.2642974

Then you have those like pinepower saying "just cough up the money". How about you write checks directly to NICE because it's just that easy to come up with tens of millions of dollars.  Lets not forget that the NICE is still offering more services for the amount of money that they receiving relative to LIB.

 

Also, essentially every year the MTA asks for more money and for more taxes and fees to be created for their coffers, but then there is an audit or investigation that reveals tens to hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted someway somehow. 

 

This is just to add some perspective to these arguments.

[Armandito]

Right. With LIB buses broke down all the time, especially in the summer. I've been on several buses that have broken down and we had to wait for the next one to pick us up, IF there was room.

 

Buses were late, and sometimes there were missing runs. The maintenance of these OLD buses comes down to how they were taken care of from the beginning under LIB. LIB had poor maintenance and their older fleet is showing the results of their poor maintenance.

 

Doesn't anyone remember when over 50% of MTA LONG ISLAND BUS buses failed inspection?

 

This article shows that it wasn't just LIB buses that the MTA failed to properly inspect/maintain: DiNapoli: MTA failed to properly inspect buses: http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/dinapoli-mta-failed-to-properly-inspect-buses-1.2642974

Then you have those like pinepower saying "just cough up the money". How about you write checks directly to NICE because it's just that easy to come up with tens of millions of dollars. Lets not forget that the NICE is still offering more services for the amount of money that they receiving relative to LIB.

 

Also, essentially every year the MTA asks for more money and for more taxes and fees to be created for their coffers, but then there is an audit or investigation that reveals tens to hundreds of millions of dollars being wasted someway somehow.

 

This is just to add some perspective to these arguments.

Why do buses break down?