Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[NY1635]

I wonder if the Transit Committee is going to approve of the cuts that NICE proposes this Thursday, or if they're going to block them in an attempt to find the money to keep routes a float.

[Mtatransit]

I wonder if the Transit Committee is going to approve of the cuts that NICE proposes this Thursday, or if they're going to block them in an attempt to find the money to keep routes a float.

Unfortunately they will approve the cuts this time around, it would jeopardize the Entire system and irresponsible if they don't.

[Joel Up Front]

How little, if anything, they've mentioned of ridership figures after 2012 is sad.  It might be tucked very cleverly into a paragraph of a statement or into one of their Powerpoint presentations or something.

[Amtrak7]

Two quick ridership plots I made using NTD data a couple days ago...

 

[67thAve]

Two quick ridership plots I made using NTD data a couple days ago...

 

 

Well, that's what happens when a lot of routes get cut, to say the least.

 

In fact, it's probably easier to speculate what routes have gotten BUSIER in the last five or so years.

[RtrainBlues]

Does 25M mean the number of times a person boards a bus?  If a person uses 2 buses in the morning and 2 at night for 300 days a year, that person is counted 1200 times?

[Amtrak7]

Does 25M mean the number of times a person boards a bus?  If a person uses 2 buses in the morning and 2 at night for 300 days a year, that person is counted 1200 times?

 

Unlinked passenger trips, so that example would be correct.

[NY1635]

I found this article, though I wonder where the 7 million of the county's undesignated fund is coming from.

http://liherald.com/stories/NICE-to-cut-reduce-routes,88140

[N6 Limited]

I found this article, though I wonder where the 7 million of the county's undesignated fund is coming from.

http://liherald.com/stories/NICE-to-cut-reduce-routes,88140

They show the N6 in the pic with a caption "The Elmont Flexi of the Nassau Inter-County Express is one line among several routes expected to be reduced because of budget constraints."

 

The Elmont Flexi line, which transports residents back and forth from Green Acres Mall along Hempstead Turnpike, is one of the lines that could see reduced service - from a bus every half-hour to one every hour -- in both the morning and afternoon.

 

Inaccurate

[Gotham Bus Co.]

I'm not buying the county's excuse that it doesn't have the money to fund it's own bus service. 

 

Nassau County may well be able to pay for more service, but it's not willing to pay for that service. First, the County wanted the to cover the bills, and now it wants Transdev to pay.  (Nassau is probably the only client anywhere that demands subsidies from its contractors.)

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

I remember the county voted not to raise parking tickets. That's what created this mess.

 

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Edited February 18, 2017 by N4 Via Merrick Rd

[Mtatransit]

I remember the county voted not to raise parking tickets. That's what created this mess.

 

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Its all because Ed mangano refused to raise property taxes. The parking ticket was because he wanted to tack a Public Safety fee ($105)  ON TOP OF the regular ticket price ($100)

Nassau County may well be able to pay for more service, but it's not willing to pay for that service. First, the County wanted the to cover the bills, and now it wants Transdev to pay.  (Nassau is probably the only client anywhere that demands subsidies from its contractors.)

Nassau County is trying to make everybody pay but themselves (State, MTA, Transdev profits)                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  BTW do anyone know which stop in Queens does the n22/n24 stops to pick up pax west of Francis Lewis? I was trying to board the bus at 189 St/Hillside where the sign only says n1/n6 and the n22/24 both bypassed the stop despite transit app saying they would stop. I ended up transferring at Hempstead Transit center

Edited February 18, 2017 by Mtatransit

[NY1635]

The n6 will get articulated buses on April to alleviate the crowding on the route during rush hours. According to the article, NICE is using the Nassau Coliseum parking lot to train bus drivers to operate them.

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/nassau/nice-to-roll-out-first-articulated-double-buses-in-april-1.13142399

Edited February 18, 2017 by NY1635

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

Its all because Ed mangano refused to raise property taxes. The parking ticket was because he wanted to tack a Public Safety fee ($105) ON TOP OF the regular ticket price ($100)

 

Nassau County is trying to make everybody pay but themselves (State, MTA, Transdev profits) BTW do anyone know which stop in Queens does the n22/n24 stops to pick up pax west of Francis Lewis? I was trying to board the bus at 189 St/Hillside where the sign only says n1/n6 and the n22/24 both bypassed the stop despite transit app saying they would stop. I ended up transferring at Hempstead Transit center

187th PL.

 

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[Mtatransit]

187th PL.

 

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So its 187 Pl and then Francis Lewis? I don't know why those buses  don't just make all local stops like the n6

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

So its 187 Pl and then Francis Lewis? I don't know why those buses don't just make all local stops like the n6

I was looking on Google Street View I see the 187 PL stop it says n22 and n24 but, you proceed East, the stops only say n1 and n6. So, I guess that's the way it is. On that note, It seems they got rid of the Dalny Road stop going west. The clever device doesn't announce the stop and it disappeared from the transit app..

 

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Edited February 18, 2017 by N4 Via Merrick Rd

[NY1635]

So its 187 Pl and then Francis Lewis? I don't know why those buses  don't just make all local stops like the n6

 

Very few people use the stops between 187th/188th and Francis Lewis Blvd. Plus it's probably done to avoid confusion.

[Mtatransit]

On the transit app EB it states between 188 St- Francis Lewis there are the following stop  189 St,193 St,195 pl, 199 St,202 St, and francis Lewis. They need to eliminate these stp from transit app

Edited February 18, 2017 by Mtatransit

[NY1635]

It still amazes me that Hempstead remains unaffected by route cuts.

[checkmatechamp13]

It still amazes me that Hempstead remains unaffected by route cuts.

 

I mean, which corridors would you cut service on, considering Hempstead is a major hub and ridership generator? If you cut service on a corridor, it'll affect people further out. I mean, what can you do, cut n35 service to Henry/Greenwich instead of continuing to the HTC itself? Or cut the n31/32 to the West Hempstead LIRR station? All that would do is reduce ridership further and force remaining riders to transfer. you cut a route like the n54/55 combo, yeah, maybe some riders can take the n48/49 or n40/41, but you strand people going to/from North Merrick & North Bellmore.

[NY1635]

I mean, which corridors would you cut service on, considering Hempstead is a major hub and ridership generator? If you cut service on a corridor, it'll affect people further out. I mean, what can you do, cut n35 service to Henry/Greenwich instead of continuing to the HTC itself? Or cut the n31/32 to the West Hempstead LIRR station? All that would do is reduce ridership further and force remaining riders to transfer. you cut a route like the n54/55 combo, yeah, maybe some riders can take the n48/49 or n40/41, but you strand people going to/from North Merrick & North Bellmore.

 

I can see the n54/55 being reduced since not that many people travel out east and I'm hearing that Sunrise Mall isn't doing too good. Plus all the people on the n54/55 are coming directly from Jerusalem Ave.The n48 Saturday Service might be eliminated because many riders are traveling thru North Bellmore and Merrick to get to Hicksville, plus the jail is closed on weekends. The n16 Saturday Service could be cut because despite being hourly because folks on South Franklin don't seem to have that much of a patience to wait for the route.

The n31/32 are fine as is since there's virtually nothing in West Hempstead by the LIRR station and no one uses NWL as the major transfer point to the n6.

 

Anyways, I was mostly wondering where folks were getting the idea that these cuts are going to affect the poor riders when low income neighborhoods like Hempstead, Roosevelt, and parts of Freeport remain unaffected by the cuts.

[FamousNYLover]

How about keeping n19 bus and extend n19 bus to Lynbrook Station from Freeport Station via n36 route, eliminating Sunday service since there's no S20 on Sunday that goes to/from Montauk Highway.

Sunrise Mall-bound will leave from current n19 bus stop. And Lynbrook-bound n19 bus will leave from n4/4X bus stop at Freeport Station.

Edited February 21, 2017 by FamousNYLover

[NY1635]

How about keeping n19 bus and extend n19 bus to Lynbrook Station from Freeport Station via n36 route, eliminating Sunday service since there's no S20 on Sunday that goes to/from Montauk Highway.

Sunrise Mall-bound will leave from current n19 bus stop. And Lynbrook-bound n19 bus will leave from n4/4X bus stop at Freeport Station.

 

I was worried that something like this would be proposed. I don't think that NICE can realistically replicate the success of combining the n35 and the n37 into one route, or even extending the n24 to Hicksville via Old Country Road to cover for the n78/79 being scaled back to the RR station by combining the n36 and the n19 into one long super route traveling from Lynbrook all the way over to the edge of Suffolk. The route will still be overshadowed by the n4 on Merrick Road

Edited February 21, 2017 by NY1635

[checkmatechamp13]

I can see the n54/55 being reduced since not that many people travel out east and I'm hearing that Sunrise Mall isn't doing too good. Plus all the people on the n54/55 are coming directly from Jerusalem Ave.The n48 Saturday Service might be eliminated because many riders are traveling thru North Bellmore and Merrick to get to Hicksville, plus the jail is closed on weekends. The n16 Saturday Service could be cut because despite being hourly because folks on South Franklin don't seem to have that much of a patience to wait for the route.

The n31/32 are fine as is since there's virtually nothing in West Hempstead by the LIRR station and no one uses NWL as the major transfer point to the n6.

 

Anyways, I was mostly wondering where folks were getting the idea that these cuts are going to affect the poor riders when low income neighborhoods like Hempstead, Roosevelt, and parts of Freeport remain unaffected by the cuts.

 

Yeah, you could cut those routes and it would affect some Hempstead residents (both those using it within Hempstead and those using it to reach further out places like North Merrick, South Hempstead, RVC, etc) but at the same time it would also affect residents of areas like North Merrick, South Hempstead, RVC, etc.

 

And poor people live in areas besides Hempstead, Roosevelt, and Freeport. Somebody could be living in an area like Levittown, and lose their job or otherwise have a low income. There's ways to get into a generally middle-class neighborhood even if you're poor (you know somebody and rent out their basement apartment, or somehow get in on a Section 8 voucher or something).

 

Basically, a typical rider of say, the n73 (or Hicksville-Wantagh shuttle) may not be much wealthier than a rider of say, the n40/41.

 

Take a look at page 44 of this survey.

 

At the time of the survey (and of course, taking into account that the different sample sizes), the n81 had 50% of survey respondents with incomes of less than $15,000 per year and the n73 had 48.6%, compared to 36% on the n40 and 44.3% on the n41.

 

The thing is that in the poorer areas, at least the service is somewhat usable. The frequency is tolerable and the span is decent, so you have some working-class and middle-class riders using it (maybe instead of owning a car, maybe as a supplement to the one car they have in the family). Compared to some of these hourly routes that end before 7PM that you'll find in more middle- and upper-class areas. (And if you think about it, if you leave work around 6PM, and catch a 6:30PM LIRR train, you already missed the last connecting bus on some of these routes by the time you get to your stop around say, 7:15PM-7:30PM or so).

 

I was worried that something like this would be proposed. I don't think that NICE can realistically replicate the success of combining the n35 and the n37 into one route, or even extending the n24 to Hicksville via Old Country Road to cover for the n78/79 being scaled back to the RR station by combining the n36 and the n19 into one long super route traveling from Lynbrook all the way over to the edge of Suffolk. The route will still be overshadowed by the n4 on Merrick Road

 

Agreed.

[67thAve]

Does anyone else think that NICE should charge some sort of transfer fee for riders transferring from the MTA (such as 25 cents)? It would still be significantly cheaper for riders compared to the LIRR, and could help to fill the budget gap a bit.