Random Thoughts Thread - Nassau Inter-County Express (NICE)

[Joel Up Front]

I'm still trying to wrap my head around the fact that the old RFM terminal was so close to Macy's.

 

Edited February 8, 2017 by Joel Up Front

[NY1635]

That was RFM before they built the multi-story parking garage at JCPenny, Macys, and later by Neiman Marcus. Honestly, the area around RFM, Mineola, and Uniondale north of the Turnpike is doomed to become what it hates the most: Queens.

[Joel Up Front]

GA Mall has already become Queens (Center Mall at Valley Stream).  I'm glad I've never spent any more than 30 minutes near RFM at a time.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

GA Mall has already become Queens (Center Mall at Valley Stream). I'm glad I've never spent any more than 30 minutes near RFM at a time.

It doesn't help that they opened the Commons there.

 

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[Joel Up Front]

Did the MSBA ever stop by GA Cinema or did they not have a route there back then?  I think for a while when the route was new, the N8 made a stop by Target but this didn't last too long.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

 Honestly, the area around RFM, Mineola, and Uniondale north of the Turnpike is doomed to become what it hates the most: Queens.

 

Nassau County itself used to be the eastern 2/3 of Queens. It seceded in 1899, after the western third of Queens voted to become part of New York City.

[Joel Up Front]

And it seems like Queens is coming back, with a vengeance.

[IAlam]

Nassau County itself used to be the eastern 2/3 of Queens. It seceded in 1899, after the western third of Queens voted to become part of New York City.

That seems to explain why the subway doesn't go very far into Queens

[Mtatransit]

That seems to explain why the subway doesn't go very far into Queens

Subway doesn't go far is not because it was part of Nassau County, it was because Queens when the Line was built was still farmland (sunny side, Jackson Heights) I guess the subway planners figured that it's plenty of space for people to occupy for the next 50 years so they didn't built further.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/nice-bus-to-give-free-metrocards-to-low-income-residents-1.13082312 Just came across this.

 

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There have been plans to expand the system further into Queens. A lot of opposition from communities and, of course, money have not permitted this to come to fruition.

 

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Edited February 12, 2017 by N4 Via Merrick Rd

[67thAve]

http://www.newsday.com/long-island/transportation/nice-bus-to-give-free-metrocards-to-low-income-residents-1.13082312 Just came across this.

 

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There have been plans to expand the system further into Queens. A lot of opposition from communities and, of course, money have not permitted this to come to fruition.

 

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I don't think this idea to give low-income families some level of discounted (or even free) rides is a smart move financially. While I do understand that these people do need cheaper transport, the issue is that NICE does not have money to throw around. The first priority of the network should be to retain as much service as possible, especially considering the budget constraints that the system currently faces.

 

However, I have heard that some other systems (one example being King County Metro in Washington State) do have some form of discounted fares if a household is below a certain income threshold, those systems tend to have one thing in common: a reliable source of funding. NICE does not have that.

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

I don't think this idea to give low-income families some level of discounted (or even free) rides is a smart move financially. While I do understand that these people do need cheaper transport, the issue is that NICE does not have money to throw around. The first priority of the network should be to retain as much service as possible, especially considering the budget constraints that the system currently faces.

 

However, I have heard that some other systems (one example being King County Metro in Washington State) do have some form of discounted fares if a household is below a certain income threshold, those systems tend to have one thing in common: a reliable source of funding. NICE does not have that.

Yes, I'll concur, they need to prioritize funding for the system.

 

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[NY1635]

Perhaps the Mercy Medical Shuttle can be axed to save the n78/79 from being eliminated. The hospital can be served by slightly enhancing the n16 to 20 minutes during Rush Hours, and diverting some trips off Franklin Street to the Hospital via Graham/Peninsula/North Village Ave on it way to RVC.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

Perhaps the Mercy Medical Shuttle can be axed to save the n78/79 from being eliminated. The hospital can be served by slightly enhancing the n16 to 20 minutes during Rush Hours, and diverting some trips off Franklin Street to the Hospital via Graham/Peninsula/North Village Ave on it way to RVC.

However you're adding service to the n16 that was used for the n17 (not in terms of frequency, but resource-wise). 

 

What I would do, in order to maintain the n79 (You likely can't save both, so the n79 is the one I'd rather save) would be as follows:

 

n1: Saturday & Sunday service eliminated between Green Acres and Hewlett; service runs every 60 minutes.

n15: Sunday service no more frequent than every 30 minutes

n21: Weekend service eliminated (since n27 buses will not need to interline anymore, see below).

n27: Service south of Roosevelt Field Eliminated

n31: Saturday service eliminated (see n32)

n32: Service runs every 30 minutes on Saturdays instead of 40 minutes

n48: Shuttle service eliminated

n71: Service eliminated (leaves the n70 as the only bus route, would be a service cut as buses would not be replaced)

 

If all of this is more than enough to save the n79, I would keep the n21 as to not leave Northern Boulevard with hourly service on weekends. If it is not enough, I would save Weekday service and as much Weekend service as possible.

[NY1635]

However you're adding service to the n16 that was used for the n17 (not in terms of frequency, but resource-wise). 

 

What I would do, in order to maintain the n79 (You likely can't save both, so the n79 is the one I'd rather save) would be as follows:

 

n1: Saturday & Sunday service eliminated between Green Acres and Hewlett; service runs every 60 minutes.

n15: Sunday service no more frequent than every 30 minutes

n21: Weekend service eliminated (since n27 buses will not need to interline anymore, see below).

n27: Service south of Roosevelt Field Eliminated

n31: Saturday service eliminated (see n32)

n32: Service runs every 30 minutes on Saturdays instead of 40 minutes

n48: Shuttle service eliminated

n71: Service eliminated (leaves the n70 as the only bus route, would be a service cut as buses would not be replaced)

 

If all of this is more than enough to save the n79, I would keep the n21 as to not leave Northern Boulevard with hourly service on weekends. If it is not enough, I would save Weekday service and as much Weekend service as possible.

 

I just feel that Mercy Medical Center could be better served if the n16 was to stop in front of the Hospital instead of Molloy during Rush  Hours on Weekdays. Very few riders would be impacted by the change since many of them are riding thru Franklin/Hempstead Ave to get to RVC and the college itself does have a shuttle. It helps that the people who take the MMC shuttle are just regular n16 riders just impatient in waiting for the route to come from Rooselvet Field/NCC.

 

60 minute weekend service on the n1 could make it's schedule more consistent, and hopefully improve connections to the n6 if done right. The current 45 minute headway just makes it random, even Transit App have a little trouble tracking the mythical route that roams around Elmont. I would still keep service south of the mall since there's some people taking it, though I have a hunch most of those people are coming from Gibson and not Hewlett.

 

I'm still confused about your suggestion to eliminate the n71. Would the n70 alone run 30 minutes to Farmingdale on Weekends?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I just feel that Mercy Medical Center could be better served if the n16 was to stop in front of the Hospital instead of Molloy during Rush  Hours on Weekdays. Very few riders would be impacted by the change since many of them are riding thru Franklin/Hempstead Ave to get to RVC and the college itself does have a shuttle. It helps that the people who take the MMC shuttle are just regular n16 riders just impatient in waiting for the route to come from Rooselvet Field/NCC.

 

60 minute weekend service on the n1 could make it's schedule more consistent, and hopefully improve connections to the n6 if done right. The current 45 minute headway just makes it random, even Transit App have a little trouble tracking the mythical route that roams around Elmont. I would still keep service south of the mall since there's some people taking it, though I have a hunch most of those people are coming from Gibson and not Hewlett.

 

I'm still confused about your suggestion to eliminate the n71. Would the n70 alone run 30 minutes to Farmingdale on Weekends?

The n16 increase would likely be more expensive instead of leaving the services as it is. I mean, I don't like having routes that serve for one primary group, but there's nothing you could do at the moment. 

 

For the n1, anyone needing Mill Road, Roosevelt Avenue, and parts of Cochran Place can walk from either stops near Green Acres or near Valley Stream LIRR. The riders affected would be those in Gibson primarily, as they would have the farthest walks (more than 15 minutes, up to 25 minutes). 

 

I realized that (I thought service on Hempstead Turnpike ran every 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes). Yes, on weekends, the n70 would run every 30 minutes.

Edited February 12, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[NY1635]

The n16 increase would likely be more expensive instead of leaving the services as it is. I mean, I don't like having routes that serve for one primary group, but there's nothing you could do at the moment. 

 

For the n1, anyone needing Mill Road, Roosevelt Avenue, and parts of Cochran Place can walk from either stops near Green Acres or near Valley Stream LIRR. The riders affected would be those in Gibson primarily, as they would have the farthest walks (more than 15 minutes, up to 25 minutes). 

 

I realized that (I thought service on Hempstead Turnpike ran every 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes). Yes, on weekends, the n70 would run every 30 minutes.

 

No one living South of Valley Stream is going to walk to the mall just to catch the n1. They will most likely head north towards Merrick to catch the n4, or the LIRR station at Hicks for the n1. Green Acres isn't a major transfer point like Roosevelt Field for the suggestion to work. Local residents just don't like the Mall enough to use it as a bus stop cause it attracts people from Queens and the controversy surrounding the expansion of the Mall. (Despite parts of Valley Stream being more or less an extension of Rosedale,Cambria Heights, and Queens Village with it's West Indian population).

 

The n16 rerouted to run in front Mercy Medical with a slight increase wouldn't be that expensive since it's one of the well utilized routes in the system and serves multiple groups of people. (RVC<->HTC, HTC<-> 60 Charles Lindbergh/NCC, and a small minority of folks going to RFM). Perhaps this can be compensated by eliminating Saturday Service on the 16, and let the n27 handle Westbury Blvd since the college isn't busy on the weekends.

Edited February 12, 2017 by NY1635

[checkmatechamp13]

60 minute weekend service on the n1 could make it's schedule more consistent, and hopefully improve connections to the n6 if done right. The current 45 minute headway just makes it random, even Transit App have a little trouble tracking the mythical route that roams around Elmont. I would still keep service south of the mall since there's some people taking it, though I have a hunch most of those people are coming from Gibson and not Hewlett.

 

I think the main reason the n1 travels south of Green Acres is for the connection to the n31/32.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The n16 rerouted to run in front Mercy Medical with a slight increase wouldn't be that expensive since it's one of the well utilized routes in the system and serves multiple groups of people. (RVC<->HTC, HTC<-> 60 Charles Lindbergh/NCC, and a small minority of folks going to RFM). Perhaps this can be compensated by eliminating Saturday Service on the 16, and let the n27 handle Westbury Blvd since the college isn't busy on the weekends.

You would need more buses than you're eliminating, which does add up. With such a cash-strapped agency, that is cutting service, that adds service that has to be decreased elsewhere. That way, you're not saving any resources (that are not being cut) that will go to the n79). If run on hourly headways, two buses will be needed, and one if running on 90 minute headways.

 

Furthermore, I wouldn't eliminate n16 Saturday service. The 35 provides some alrernative, but certain areas would have no weekend bus service.

Edited February 12, 2017 by BM5 via Woodhaven Bl

[67thAve]

After much thinking, here's what I think should be done to make the network more "efficient" (this list includes some ideas I had previously). This list does NOT include the routes that have already been listed for elimination, because in my mind, those routes WILL be gone come April, bar none.

 

n1: Weekend service every hour; service eliminated between Jamaica and Elmont.

n4/n4x: No changes.

n6/n6x: Reduce local rush hour service from every 10 to every 12 minutes by placing artics into service; cut overnight frequencies from every 30 minutes to every 45 minutes.

n15: Reduce Sunday service to every 30 minutes.

n16: Eliminate Saturday service between Hempstead and Roosevelt Field.

n20G: Reduce midday Saturday and eastbound AM Sunday frequencies to every 20 minutes.

n20H: Every other trip midday weekdays begins/ends at LIU Post.

n21: Eliminate weekend service.

n22/n22a/n22x: Eliminate n22a service; replace around half of n22a trips with n22/n22x trips.

n23: Reduce mid-day weekday service to every 40 minutes.

n24: Eliminate East Meadow service.

n25: No changes.

n26: Eliminate.
n31/n32: Eliminate Saturday n31 service; increase Saturday n32 service from every 40 to every 30 minutes.

n33: Attempt to sell off the route to the city of Long Beach, otherwise, do not change.

n35: Reduce Saturday service to every 40 minutes.

n40/n41: No changes. (I believe that back in the LIB days, the farebox recovery ratio on the route was actually above 100%!)

n43: No changes.

n48/n49: Combine the n48 Jericho Quad shuttle with the new n80/n81; reduce combined Saturday frequencies to every 40 minutes.

n54/n55: Eliminate service between Amityville and Sunrise Mall.

n58: Reduce service north of the Merchant Marine Academy to rush hours only.

n70/n71/n72: Eastbound weekday AM peak service is reduced to every 15 minutes; Saturday AM peak service is reduced to every 20 minutes.

Mercy Medical Shuttle: Extend service southwards to Merrick Road/Park Ave.

Elmont Flexi: Eliminate some deviations.

[NY1635]

You would need more buses than you're eliminating, which does add up. With such a cash-strapped agency, that is cutting service, that adds service that has to be decreased elsewhere. That way, you're not saving any resources (that are not being cut) that will go to the n79). If run on hourly headways, two buses will be needed, and one if running on 90 minute headways.

 

Furthermore, I wouldn't eliminate n16 Saturday service. The 35 provides some alrernative, but certain areas would have no weekend bus service.

 

I'm not buying the county's excuse that it doesn't have the money to fund it's own bus service. I believe that short sighted business decisions, like renovating the Coliseum with no plausible way to bring the Islanders back from Barclays might've contributed to the financial problems.

 

If we're thinking about costs, I believe the following can believe the following cuts can be done to save the n79:

 

n1: Weekend Service runs every 60 minutes

Elmont Flexi: Eliminate Hendrickson Park, Valley Stream Blvd, and Rockaway/Wheeler Flexi Stops. Route uses Rockaway Parkway/Avenue to Corona.

n6: midday service between NCC and HTC reduced to 30 minutes.

n20H: Weekday Rush Hour trips remain on Northern Blvd and skip the Clock Tower. n20H buses stop outside of NYIT and CW Post during the semester break.

n20G: Uses Roosevelt Avenue and Bowne Street in both directions.

n22a: Eliminate and let the n22/22x/and n24 handle service between RFM and Jamaica

n24: Discontinue the East Meadow Trips and make them RFM short turns instead.

n27: Stops at 60 Charles Lindbergh during Weekday Rush Hours. Midday and Weekend Trips continue on Oak towards Commercial.

n31:This one is an ideal solution: short turn buses at Mott Ave and Beach 21st Street.  Far Rockaway Buses will turn left on Mott from Central, Right on Cornaga, and another right on Beach 21st  and terminate in front of the station.

n48: Saturday Service Eliminated. n49: 40 minutes on Saturday

n70: Weekday Service to Farmingdale State. Weekend and Off peak Trips terminate at Conklin/110.

Edited February 13, 2017 by NY1635

[RtrainBlues]

If any n22a trips are cut, they should be made into n22x's between RFM and 165th/179th, since many (most?) n22x's are deadheads that now have the extra benefit of taking on passengers.

 

If the n27 continues via the Oak St bypass, then the 60 Charles Lindbergh passengers just have to walk to the corner to catch the bus instead of having the bus loop around to detour to them.  The loop causes a 6 minute delay = likely an extra bus driver per day needed.  That's major money.

[NY1635]

If any n22a trips are cut, they should be made into n22x's between RFM and 165th/179th, since many (most?) n22x's are deadheads that now have the extra benefit of taking on passengers.

 

If the n27 continues via the Oak St bypass, then the 60 Charles Lindbergh passengers just have to walk to the corner to catch the bus instead of having the bus loop around to detour to them.  The loop causes a 6 minute delay = likely an extra bus driver per day needed.  That's major money.

 

The n16 should be the only route that service that place. Despite it's indirect routing between the RFM and HTC, the n27 is usually behind the n15/35, but arrives before the n16 in RFM.

Edited February 13, 2017 by NY1635

[N4 Via Merrick Rd]

The n16 should be the only route that service that place. Despite it's indirect routing between the RFM and HTC, the n27 is usually behind the n15/35, but arrives before the n16 in RFM.

Yes because light at Clinton/Stewart is a choke point during peak hours.

 

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Edited February 13, 2017 by N4 Via Merrick Rd

[Amtrak7]

A slightly modified version of my big post from several pages back, including the edits that I sprinkled in since:

 

Remember, if NICE follows typical transit agency economics, saving peak buses is a LOT more beneficial than saving off-peak buses. So rush hour service needs to be trimmed where possible.

-n1 eliminate Green Acres-Hewlett. Hourly off peak service. Reduce span of Jamaica service.
-n4 rush hours locals short turn at RVC / n4X make all stops FPT-RVC.
-n19 eliminate on weekends.
-n20H turn back all off peak and most peak trips at Glen Cove Road or CW Post.
-n21 reroute via n27 at rush hours / eliminate at other times.
-n24 No East Meadow service
-n27 Hourly all day long
-n31 Lynbrook to Far Rockaway only, rush hours only. n32 30min headway Saturdays
-n33 Transfer to City of Long Beach (like the Point Lookout route); if not possible, operate a 40 minute headway all day long using 1 bus Far Rock to the Long Beach city line.
-n35 Eliminate Westbury service. Terminate NCC when in session, else Hempstead.
-n36 Eliminate.
-n45 Eliminate.
-n46 Restore. Go down Newbridge Road to Bellmore Avenue.
-n47 Eliminate.
-n48 Eliminate Saturday service and Jericho Quad shuttle.
-n49 30-40min Saturday headway. Extend all trips to SUNY Old Westbury.
-n51 Eliminate.
-n54/55 No n54 Amityville service.
-n57 Keep, convert to minibus.
-n58 Eliminate north of USMMA.
-n70 Eliminate designation.
-n71 Operate n81 route to Sunrise Mall (leaving Hempstead Tpk at Merrits Rd)
-n72 Combined with the hourly n71, 15min peak/30min off peak headway. Terminate at Republic Airport shopping plaza and divert trips into SUNY Farmingdale to provide a 30min headway there during the hours campus is open
-n78 Eliminate.
-n79 Keep.
-n80 Eliminate.
-n81 Minibus, hourly weekdays only. Operate via Rt 107 route to Central Avenue, then Central up to Stewart, then divert up to Bethpage LIRR, then Stewart to Hempstead Turnpike and terminate.
-Shuttles: Eliminate all.
-Elmont Flexi: Keep, hourly, dropping all Flex stops except for Fletcher/Dutch Broadway.