Second Avenue Subway Discussion

[R32 Fan]

Well, it depends on the time, too. The worst delays are when it's not from crowding, actually. One time it took 3 hours to get from Manhattan to the Rockaways on the A, it was late night on a weekend, so local service of course, but then there were multiple delays including a skipped station transfer to a bus to get around 80th Street, the first el/Queens station. All of this somehow took a long time, then for some reason the Shuttle took forever and somehow three hours had passed by the time I was exiting Beach 98 Street. There was a scared couple using the A to get to JFK, instead of taking the E. It took them at least two hours by the time they got there from wherever they came from. I told them it's not always like this, and that late night weekend is prime for long delays from work etc. 

[RailRunRob]

Well, it depends on the time, too. The worst delays are when it's not from crowding, actually. One time it took 3 hours to get from Manhattan to the Rockaways on the A, it was late night on a weekend, so local service of course, but then there were multiple delays including a skipped station transfer to a bus to get around 80th Street, the first el/Queens station. All of this somehow took a long time, then for some reason the Shuttle took forever and somehow three hours had passed by the time I was exiting Beach 98 Street. There was a scared couple using the A to get to JFK, instead of taking the E. It took them at least two hours by the time they got there from wherever they came from. I told them it's not always like this, and that late night weekend is prime for long delays from work etc. 

Hey, next time you fly into Reagan or SFO let me know how the late night service is on the BART or the DC Metro! Cool?

Edited January 3, 2017 by RailRunRob

[cl94]

Hey, next time you fly into Reagan or SFO let me know how the late night service is on the BART or the DC Metro! Cool?

Yeah...there's a reason I don't fly to/from TRB every year and it's not because I'm a railfan. Because there's an overnight shutdown, you really can't take an early flight.

[R32 Fan]

Anyway back on topic, I didn't make the SAS opening, I really thought I would, I mean I knew I would, but as it drew nearer and had the soft opening and everything, I decided not to go out of my way for it. While the HY opening was all about fanfare, this extension is much more about purpose, more utilitarian, it is needed now. HY might be a busy station in a decade, Lex Ave needed relief now. I really hope there's a push to keep it going, first to Harlem, but then to the south. It's a giant subway desert all the way down, at least for N/S service. And it's a very dense area. While it might change some of that yet quaint feel to the "little _" ethnic areas, it would be a busy line in it's own right. And hopefully with great signals/CBTC that could allow for very short headways. Under 2 minutes is possible with CBTC. I mean a minute is possible, but with large trains 90 seconds is sufficient for most cases. 

[Wallyhorse]

The problem is pols don't care about transit. They care about their image. If the line is done while they are in office let's celebrate, but to start a line and cause a disruption to business, that is something very few pols are willing to take. Cuomo didn't start the project, the project finished while he is in office, hence the celebration.

Again, that's now.

 

I'm sure many are shell-shocked by the $6 Billion price tag for Phase 2.  If they can be shown such costs can be brought down sharply by doing the last part of Phase 2 as elevated (perhaps dropping it all the way to $750 Million-$1 Billion) AND it can be shown a modern EL can fit in very nicely, then I think all but the most truly selfish would look at such more seriously, especially given the pressure to get Phase 2 done.

[Lance]

Get it through your thick skull: nobody is building a new elevated line in the Bronx and they are definitely not building one in Manhattan. It doesn't matter how much cheaper an el is; politicians will not commit political suicide by backing an elevated line in their district, regardless of the transit needs. Their constituents will hang them from the rafters if they even thought of trying. What will likely happen if the extension to Harlem proves to be too expensive is that the state will shelve the project indefinitely as they did in the '70s. As I and many others have stated time and again, there is a reason why there hasn't been an elevated line constructed since the '20s and why there aren't any left in Manhattan today. Like CenSin stated previously, for someone who knows the "pols" so much, you sure don't act like it.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Lance

[Bracamonte]

In my opinion, since there are already existing tunnel segments up til 120th Street, it might be possible that during construction of phase 2, 106th and 116th Street stations could be opened to service first, while work is in progress for 125th since that requires constructing new tunnels using TBM's.

 

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[R32 Fan]

Are you sure the tunnels are anywhere near "done" up to 120th Street, or just very small segments? And how many segments? If so much was done, the cost would certainly be lower, and the feasibility would be rated as better. Nobody even seems to mention the existing tunnel segments as a significant step towards phase two. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

Are you sure the tunnels are anywhere near "done" up to 120th Street, or just very small segments? And how many segments? If so much was done, the cost would certainly be lower, and the feasibility would be rated as better. Nobody even seems to mention the existing tunnel segments as a significant step towards phase two.

The tunnels (99-105, already in use, and 110-120) are done and built in the 1970s, but due to the 1970 plans not having a station at 116 St, the area there has to be rebuilt.

 

There's also another section near Chatham Square, but too soon to say if it will be used, although unlikely.

Edited January 3, 2017 by ShadeJay

[RailRunRob]

The tunnels (99-105, already in use, and 110-120) are done and built in the 1970s, but due to the 1970 plans not having a station at 116 St, the area there has to be rebuilt.

 

There's also another section near Chatham Square, but too soon to say if it will be used, although unlikely.

They could layup 4 trains north of 96th correct? Edited January 3, 2017 by RailRunRob

[R32 Fan]

Already in use? As a tail track for the SAS? And how could that be a place for a Lex train? 

[Wallyhorse]

Get it through your thick skull: nobody is building a new elevated line in the Bronx and they are definitely not building one in Manhattan. It doesn't matter how much cheaper an el is; politicians will not commit political suicide by backing an elevated line in their district, regardless of the transit needs. Their constituents will hang them from the rafters if they even thought of trying. What will likely happen if the extension to Harlem proves to be too expensive is that the state will shelve the project indefinitely as they did in the '70s. As I and many others have stated time and again, there is a reason why there hasn't been an elevated line constructed since the '20s and why there aren't any left in Manhattan today. Like CenSin stated previously, for someone who knows the "pols" so much, you sure don't act like it.

I never said they would actually do it.  I said they would have to seriously look at it. 

 

Not that they would actually build an elevated line, but the cost savings might open a few eyes. Again, the stretch that actually would be elevated would only be about five-eighths of a mile with ONE elevated station, and that could even be shortened if they went to cut-and-cover as far as they can before they would have to go back to deep boring otherwise.

 

If there is as much pressure to get Phase 2 done as I think there will be, there might actually be some compromise.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Wallyhorse

[R10 2952]

The trolling is strong with this one...

[cl94]

The trolling is strong with this one...

 

This is Wally we're talking about...

[Porter]

Think of it this way, Wally:

 

If the Transit Fairy were to offer to magically construct an elevated line instantaneously and without costing even a single penny or demolishing even a single structure, the majority of politicians and residents would still respond with a resounding "no" anyway. You couldn't even give something like that away, and I doubt that you could even sufficiently bribe everyone either. It's not merely a less ideal option or compromise; it's disastrously negative.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Skipper

[CTK246]

via 2nd Avenue has signage that reads

CONEY ISLAND

BWAY / 4 AV EXP

VIA SEA BEACH

 

http://imgur.com/a/0aFcO

Edited January 3, 2017 by CTK246

[RailRunRob]

Already in use? As a tail track for the SAS? And how could that be a place for a Lex train? 

Are you asking me? I was talking about the tail tracks north of 96TH street (SAS) station I was referring to the amount of the trains that could be stored in that space. I'm lost on everything else.

[Bracamonte]

In 96th Street today, I was told by a rail enthusiast that he heard from Trevor Logan that R68's are banned from Second Avenue until they get new rollsigns indicating the new route. Can anyone confirm this? Also, I saw a Q train coming out from the layup tracks north of 96th Street today.

 

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[cl94]

Are you asking me? I was talking about the tail tracks north of 96TH street (SAS) station I was referring to the amount of the trains that could be stored in that space. I'm lost on everything else.

 

Yes, the tail tracks can hold 4 trains, 2 per side.

[Around the Horn]

Well the whole via Sea Beach thing fell flat on its face...

 

Of the three trains I saw, all of them expect for one were using the 57th Street program and manually calling out stops.

[Union Tpke]

With the opening of the first phase of the Second Avenue Subway, Mayor DeBlasio has no excuse not to use the subway to get where he needs to go from Gracie Mansion.

[pr1nyc1]

With the opening of the first phase of the Second Avenue Subway, Mayor DeBlasio has no excuse not to use the subway to get where he needs to go from Gracie Mansion.

He'll most likely still use da choppa.

[Union Tpke]

He'll most likely still use da choppa.

 

Probably, but he might have some more explaining to do.

[CenSin]

With the opening of the first phase of the Second Avenue Subway, Mayor DeBlasio has no excuse not to use the subway to get where he needs to go from Gracie Mansion.

His excuse would be: ”I wouldn’t want to inconvenience fellow New Yorkers with my security detail.”

[cl94]

Well the whole via Sea Beach thing fell flat on its face...

 

Of the three trains I saw, all of them expect for one were using the 57th Street program and manually calling out stops.

 

There's an issue with the 96th Street programs, at least heading NB. The automated announcements crap out at Lex/63rd.

 

He'll most likely still use da choppa.

 

 

Probably, but he might have some more explaining to do.

 

 

His excuse would be: ”I wouldn’t want to inconvenience fellow New Yorkers with my security detail.”

 

Even Emperor Bloomberg used the Subway. Granted, he took a limo to Lex/59th and got on there, but still, he at least stepped in the tunnels on a daily basis.