Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[BrooklynBus]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 6:27 AM, B22viaAtlanticAv said:

Could you elaborate on the new route the community was recommending back then?

They wanted a route halfway between Penn and Fountain. I think it was one-way on Miller and the street next to it in the opposite direction. Below New Lots on Van Siclen. The MTA did not want routes on one-way streets, as if they don't have any now, and claimed it would be too much additional mileage.

[BrooklynBus]

On ‎12‎/‎29‎/‎2017 at 11:57 AM, Future ENY OP said:

Buses on the Belt Parkway notion is pretty stupid. I've seen Ulmer Park and FB buses deadhead on the Belt Parkway in all my years driving in Brooklyn. 

However, a study is surely needed for the B83 to fully travel down Penn Avenue without introducing any new bus routes to cover that portion of Penn Avenue. That part of East New York is tricky. 

I never saw Ulmer Park buses on the Belt before 2004. Once the reconstruction is completed, they could make the shoulder into a bus lane and then buses on the Belt would be quite feasible.

[B35 via Church]

On 12/29/2017 at 12:13 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Once a upon of time. I mentioned about having the B84 work along side the B6 or B82 to provide Canarsie coverage. However, there was no such market for the B84 to help out with the B6 or B82 along Flatlands or Cozine Avenues. 

Right the 84 is the biggest step child to the MTA and there's no possible solution to the problem. Something tells me it's going to have the same fate like the B18 which was the other step child which eventually got eliminated in 2010 unless improvements are made either within East New York or East New York to Canarsie or even East New York to Cypress Hills as there's no bus service fully covering Liberty Avenue.. 

I agree with you in regards to the B13 and B15. I'd also put the B14 in the same category since those 3 buses are the most sought in East New York. B20, and B6 are close 2nd and 3rd. 

As much as I think the MTA should do away w/ the route, I'm inclined to believe, out of sheer stubbornness, they're going to eventually find a way to merge that route with something (to then dub it as some kind of success or something)..... Don't remember who it was, but someone on here had an idea of having the B6 run over to Gateway... Having the B13 run along Flatlands to get to Gateway II, to terminate (instead of going through Gateway I) would not be far-fetched to expect either....

I should've been more specific with what I meant.... I was referring to ENY around the Cypress Hills houses (Linden Blvd side), Pink houses & Linden Plaza complex.... But unspecified (meaning, ENY, in general), you're right....

17 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

 The MTA did not want routes on one-way streets, as if they don't have any now, and claimed it would be too much additional mileage.

Smh... Never heard this one before; news to me.....

I abhor this line of thinking for several reasons (the obvious one being, a 1-way street is still a street)... Jackson Heights, for instance, would barely have bus service if such a foolish ideology was followed to the letter..... Manhattan's bus network would be practically non-existent south of 110th (unless of course, the major north-south roads were to be turned into 2-way again)....

What I would refrain from, are the putting of buses on real narrow two way streets - the ones where a bus in one direction has (no choice but) to hug the curb, just so that a bus heading in the other direction can pass..... The Q40 & the Q41 has to put up with that crap.... To me, that is NOT worth it to keep a bus on a 2-way street for the simple sake of doing so.... Only real exception to that I can think of off-top, is with the case of the Q59 over the Grand st. bridge....

[Future ENY OP]

19 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I never saw Ulmer Park buses on the Belt before 2004. Once the reconstruction is completed, they could make the shoulder into a bus lane and then buses on the Belt would be quite feasible.

Before 2004. How did the x27, x28 and x29 deadhead to Bay Ridge and Seagate/Bensonhurst/Coney Island? 

[Future ENY OP]

42 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

As much as I think the MTA should do away w/ the route, I'm inclined to believe, out of sheer stubbornness, they're going to eventually find a way to merge that route with something (to then dub it as some kind of success or something)..... Don't remember who it was, but someone on here had an idea of having the B6 run over to Gateway... Having the B13 run along Flatlands to get to Gateway II, to terminate (instead of going through Gateway I) would not be far-fetched to expect either....

I should've been more specific with what I meant.... I was referring to ENY around the Cypress Hills houses (Linden Blvd side), Pink houses & Linden Plaza complex.... But unspecified (meaning, ENY, in general), you're right....

 

Yeh. That B6 to gateway was definitely a no-go. Bad enough the local is fully a 90+ minute route from Bensonhurst to East New York. So running that to Gateway1 wasn't happening.  With the B13. I could possibly see that running that towards Gateway II.  However, what's the market looking like for that area?.

The 84 would be better suited for that. Also, that should be a route to run direct to Broadway-East New York.  Hence, I don't like calling that area (Broadway Junction) simply b/c that part of East New York doesn't resemble as a Junction. 

The real issue at hand is how to run the 84? Again, I feel the 84 is the unofficial stepchild to the   unless they make changes. I got some sorry news for that line.  

Edited January 1, 2018 by Future ENY OP

[BrooklynBus]

On January 1, 2018 at 5:09 PM, B35 via Church said:

As much as I think the MTA should do away w/ the route, I'm inclined to believe, out of sheer stubbornness, they're going to eventually find a way to merge that route with something (to then dub it as some kind of success or something)..... Don't remember who it was, but someone on here had an idea of having the B6 run over to Gateway... Having the B13 run along Flatlands to get to Gateway II, to terminate (instead of going through Gateway I) would not be far-fetched to expect either....

I should've been more specific with what I meant.... I was referring to ENY around the Cypress Hills houses (Linden Blvd side), Pink houses & Linden Plaza complex.... But unspecified (meaning, ENY, in general), you're right....

Smh... Never heard this one before; news to me.....

I abhor this line of thinking for several reasons (the obvious one being, a 1-way street is still a street)... Jackson Heights, for instance, would barely have bus service if such a foolish ideology was followed to the letter..... Manhattan's bus network would be practically non-existent south of 110th (unless of course, the major north-south roads were to be turned into 2-way again)....

What I would refrain from, are the putting of buses on real narrow two way streets - the ones where a bus in one direction has (no choice but) to hug the curb, just so that a bus heading in the other direction can pass..... The Q40 & the Q41 has to put up with that crap.... To me, that is NOT worth it to keep a bus on a 2-way street for the simple sake of doing so.... Only real exception to that I can think of off-top, is with the case of the Q59 over the Grand st. bridge....

It was obviously a nonsense reason just so they wouldn't have to provide the service. 

[BrooklynBus]

On January 1, 2018 at 5:37 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Before 2004. How did the x27, x28 and x29 deadhead to Bay Ridge and Seagate/Bensonhurst/Coney Island? 

I don't know, but would guess they used Cropsey Ave. 

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

It was obviously a nonsense reason just so they wouldn't have to provide the service. 

With the MTA, yes, they look for any type of "out" wherever they can... At the same time however, you have others on these parts that adhere to such an ideology...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 1/1/2018 at 5:37 PM, Future ENY OP said:

Before 2004. How did the x27, x28 and x29 deadhead to Bay Ridge and Seagate/Bensonhurst/Coney Island? 

The X28 doesn't need to use the Belt since the route runs right past the depot. They just come from the depot following the X28 route Southbound to Sea Gate. When I wait down in Coney Island they always deadhead right along Surf Avenue and then come around. Takes 15 minutes tops.  

Edited January 3, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[checkmatechamp13]

14 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

With the MTA, yes, they look for any type of "out" wherever they can... At the same time however, you have others on these parts that adhere to such an ideology...

Reminds me of back when they were attempting to refute my arguments about a local bus along Goethals/Fahy/Lamberts. They said that since the streets are one-way and divided by the expressway, they wouldn't be able to provide bidirectional service, so why bother. (If that was an issue, I suggested either a continuous loop like the LGA routes, or something similar to the present-day pattern with the QM Midtown routes, where buses would terminate at Richmond & Lamberts, but start from Goethals & Richmond).

Of course, that ignores the obvious....the X17J stops along those same streets with no issues.

[Armandito]

Been inactive for a very long time, but I once again revisited my bus proposal from last year: 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1Ihsdq5WuYypnT-MXJ1zu0iBaBVOs8dLH&ll=40.662376396486266%2C-73.90158830904772&z=14

Note that I modified the routing from my original proposal this time. What are your thoughts on it?

Old: via Foster Avenue and Linden Boulevard

New: via Foster Avenue, Avenue D, and New Lots Avenue

 

Edited March 12, 2018 by lara8710

[Brillant93]

30 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

Been inactive for a very long time, but I once again revisited my bus proposal from last year: 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1Ihsdq5WuYypnT-MXJ1zu0iBaBVOs8dLH&ll=40.662376396486266%2C-73.90158830904772&z=14

Note that I modified the routing from my original proposal this time. What are your thoughts on it?

Old: via Foster Avenue and Linden Boulevard

New: via Foster Avenue, Avenue D, and New Lots Avenue

 

I don’t think this would work. For one the B82 SBS is launching in July so another limited service wouldn’t be so helpful. The route probably wouldn’t service a purpose going to JFK from midwood. It’s not a place that can get a lot of people to ride it to jfk in my opinion. Maybe have the route along 65th street in BK making key transfer stops      at the F train, B and Q, then go onto kings Hwy in to linden Blvd, and on its way to JFK. Also I think the B15 is also under consideration for SBS. 

[Armandito]

30 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I don’t think this would work. For one the B82 SBS is launching in July so another limited service wouldn’t be so helpful. The route probably wouldn’t service a purpose going to JFK from midwood. It’s not a place that can get a lot of people to ride it to jfk in my opinion. Maybe have the route along 65th street in BK making key transfer stops      at the F train, B and Q, then go onto kings Hwy in to linden Blvd, and on its way to JFK. Also I think the B15 is also under consideration for SBS. 

Wouldn't that be too long?

[Brillant93]

3 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

Wouldn't that be too long?

I think at some point jfk access from bay ridge was proposed. It might be too long but I wouldn’t let it go past the mta. 

[Armandito]

42 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

I think at some point jfk access from bay ridge was proposed. It might be too long but I wouldn’t let it go past the mta. 

Long ago I remember another user proposed the Midwood-JFK route I mapped, and said there were some people from the Midwood area who worked at JFK. But then you said there's no purpose for the route serving the airport, even though I don't plan to have all buses serve the full route. Rather, some trips would begin or end at Drew Street under my proposal. And I don't think the B15 needs SBS...

Edited March 12, 2018 by lara8710

[Brillant93]

15 minutes ago, lara8710 said:

Long ago I remember another user proposed the Midwood-JFK route I mapped, and said there were some people from the Midwood area who worked at JFK. But then you said there's no purpose for the route serving the airport, even though I don't plan to have all buses serve the full route. Rather, some trips would begin or end at Drew Street under my proposal. And I don't think the B15 needs SBS...

It’s under consideration so I think at some point it will be. I believe the Q10 is also under consideration for sbs. 

[Armandito]

2 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

It’s under consideration so I think at some point it will be. I believe the Q10 is also under consideration for sbs. 

Anyway I'd stick with my Midwood-JFK bus proposal. The route, at least in theory, would have the potential to provide better connection between southern and eastern Brooklyn and relieve some crowding on the B6 and B82 buses.

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, lara8710 said:

Anyway I'd stick with my Midwood-JFK bus proposal. The route, at least in theory, would have the potential to provide better connection between southern and eastern Brooklyn and relieve some crowding on the B6 and B82 buses.

I see. I think the B82 sbs is supposed to articulated shortly after its impletation. It’s starting off with 40 footers though.

[EastFlatbushLarry]

7 hours ago, lara8710 said:

Been inactive for a very long time, but I once again revisited my bus proposal from last year: 

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=1Ihsdq5WuYypnT-MXJ1zu0iBaBVOs8dLH&ll=40.662376396486266%2C-73.90158830904772&z=14

Note that I modified the routing from my original proposal this time. What are your thoughts on it?

Old: via Foster Avenue and Linden Boulevard

New: via Foster Avenue, Avenue D, and New Lots Avenue

 

Years ago, when East NY depot ran the B60, snediker avenue was used as the pull in route for the B17, B60 & B42. Transit changed the pull in routing away from snediker to avoid community complaints and accidents. Children love to play in the street on those residential blocks. If this route were to exist, snediker would not be a good option. Just a friendly suggestion from a B/O who has used snediker, and it's not safe to run a bus line on those blocks. 

[EastFlatbushLarry]

5 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

It’s under consideration so I think at some point it will be. I believe the Q10 is also under consideration for sbs. 

I've never heard any legit discussions about the b15 or q10 being considered for SBS at any point in the near future. I don't even think either line is considered a SBS "priority corridor" on the DOT website. Artics have been discussed for the B15 for awhile now. That's it. And for the record, SBS bus lanes wouldn't work on the B15 or Q10. The only aspects that may work are off board payment & TSP (if Trottenberg and the DOT finally pull their heads out of their asses) 

[Brillant93]

15 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

I've never heard any legit discussions about the b15 or q10 being considered for SBS at any point in the near future. I don't even think either line is considered a SBS "priority corridor" on the DOT website. Artics have been discussed for the B15 for awhile now. That's it. And for the record, SBS bus lanes wouldn't work on the B15 or Q10. The only aspects that may work are off board payment & TSP (if Trottenberg and the DOT finally pull their heads out of their asses) 

With the bus forward presentation it is still proposed.

Link

The B15 is called Brooklyn access to jfk and Q10 Queens access to jfk. I feel that it would probably be a no brainer to have a bus from Brooklyn and or Queens that goes straight to JFK. Like the Q70 it would probably give people more options. But at this point I don't think as well its a priority. I also read around on the forums the B15 is being talked for artic conversion, not sure if its still being looked into. But I agree that the best aspects for routes like the B15 is off board payment and TSP. But what about all door boarding? Hopefully in future when they start to phase out the metrocard they can start doing so.  

[EastFlatbushLarry]

2 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

With the bus forward presentation it is still proposed.

Link

The B15 is called Brooklyn access to jfk and Q10 Queens access to jfk. I feel that it would probably be a no brainer to have a bus from Brooklyn and or Queens that goes straight to JFK. Like the Q70 it would probably give people more options. But at this point I don't think as well its a priority. I also read around on the forums the B15 is being talked for artic conversion, not sure if its still being looked into. But I agree that the best aspects for routes like the B15 is off board payment and TSP. But what about all door boarding? Hopefully in future when they start to phase out the metrocard they can start doing so.  

Alright, well... I still contend that SBS-ing the B15, letalone the Q10, is of any priority to DOT or transit in the immediate future. Aside from the B82, i can't think of what direction they're going next... The M14? 

[Brillant93]

13 minutes ago, EastFlatbushLarry said:

Alright, well... I still contend that SBS-ing the B15, letalone the Q10, is of any priority to DOT or transit in the immediate future. Aside from the B82, i can't think of what direction they're going next... The M14? 

It’s funny because when I look it up in various presentations yes it’s considered for the L train shut down but when I go to the Wikipedia page it says a separate route would be implemented along side the M14. It’s confusing tbh. 

[MysteriousBtrain]

B22 between Sunset Park (39 and 1 Av) and Kings Plaza. Runs via 39 St, Cortelyou Rd, and Flatbush Av. Weekdays: 6-11:30, Saturday 7-11, Sunday 8-10. Every 15 minutes rush hours, 20 midday and evening, 30 weekends.

Probably not useful because of duplication of other routes but this was on my mind just now.

[Future ENY OP]

On 3/12/2018 at 8:37 PM, Brillant93 said:

With the bus forward presentation it is still proposed.

Link

The B15 is called Brooklyn access to jfk and Q10 Queens access to jfk. I feel that it would probably be a no brainer to have a bus from Brooklyn and or Queens that goes straight to JFK. Like the Q70 it would probably give people more options. But at this point I don't think as well its a priority. I also read around on the forums the B15 is being talked for artic conversion, not sure if its still being looked into. But I agree that the best aspects for routes like the B15 is off board payment and TSP. But what about all door boarding? Hopefully in future when they start to phase out the metrocard they can start doing so.  

I got a chance to briefly read the bus forward presentation and here is what I can gather:

Personal observation: I really don't think the B15 should be an SBS candidate for the following reasons.

• The complex route that it travels between East New York and Bed-Stuy. The current route is a complete chokepoint and I mean this in true sincerely. Between New Lots Avenue, Ralph Avenue, Lewis Avenue and Woodhull are your main chokepoints. Just too much congestion to even think about creating an SBS route. A true BRT has to have a north-south route with very limited stops. 

 

• Another area that the B15 travels is in Crown Heights- Dean Street b/w Albany and Rochester Aves. At times Dean street traffic is on a standstill b/c there are 4 schools that service that route and between the hours of 1:30pm and 6:00PM is where most of the congestion lies. Unless an streamline of the route changes lets not put any thought of having the B15SBS+