Brooklyn Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[JeremiahC99]

34 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Anyway, back then it are some sense because everyone wanted to go to Kings Plaza. Today, many locals  avoid Kings Plaza, so I don't think the same demand exists today for that extension. The B4 is too long as it is. And yes there should be a direct bus  route from Sheepshead Bay to the Rockaways. Until the early 1960s there was a ferry from the foot of Ocean Avenue to Breezy Point for 25 cents each way. It had lasted many years without any subsidy. So obviously there was demand. 

I agree that there should be a route between Sheepshead Bay and the Rockaway. Any routing between the two areas would have to pass through Kings Plaza and operate along the Knapp Street corridor. On the bright side, Knapp Street would have bus service there, and since the population prefer to the Sheepshead Bay station, this would provide residents east of Batchelder Street with a closer route to the station. No more trudging all the way to Nostrand Avenue to catch an overcrowded B36 in the morning. Now they would have a closer route with seats available. However, headway’s on this new route would be contingent on available resources, since we only have finite buses for tour routes. JFK Depot and Far Rockaway Depot (which operates the routes in the Rockaways) has 289 buses in total, with around 50-55 standard Orion VII OG Hybrids In rotation with Far Rockaway Depot, so taking that into account, headway’s need to be properly determined.

Would it also make sense to have that ferry route to Breezy Point revived alongside this new bus route?

[BrooklynBus]

7 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I agree that there should be a route between Sheepshead Bay and the Rockaway. Any routing between the two areas would have to pass through Kings Plaza and operate along the Knapp Street corridor. On the bright side, Knapp Street would have bus service there, and since the population prefer to the Sheepshead Bay station, this would provide residents east of Batchelder Street with a closer route to the station. No more trudging all the way to Nostrand Avenue to catch an overcrowded B36 in the morning. Now they would have a closer route with seats available. However, headway’s on this new route would be contingent on available resources, since we only have finite buses for tour routes. JFK Depot and Far Rockaway Depot (which operates the routes in the Rockaways) has 289 buses in total, with around 50-55 standard Orion VII OG Hybrids In rotation with Far Rockaway Depot, so taking that into account, headway’s need to be properly determined.

Would it also make sense to have that ferry route to Breezy Point revived alongside this new bus route?

All the ferries require heavy subsidies and I don’t think Breezy Point would want it. I have come up with a better route to Rockaway using the Belt Parkway now that it has been reconstructed. I renumbered it to Q45 from Q51. I would have another route on Knapp St.

[JeremiahC99]

3 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

All the ferries require heavy subsidies and I don’t think Breezy Point would want it. I have come up with a better route to Rockaway using the Belt Parkway now that it has been reconstructed. I renumbered it to Q45 from Q51. I would have another route on Knapp St.

I heard about the heavy subsidies, and even the fare can discourage some people from using it. I mean $2.75 and no free transfer to/from the subway, I wouldn’t ride it if I needed to transfer. It would honestly be justified if fares were integrated into the  system or if I were starting/ending my trip at a terminal at either end.

I also like the idea of a Belt Pkwy route as well, although I feel that the  may need a permit to have the route on the Pkwy, but it does work. I’ll wait for the rest of your route proposals so I can give feedback.

And speaking of the Belt Pkwy, have any plans for better access between Southern Brooklyn and JFK Airport?

[BrooklynBus]

34 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I heard about the heavy subsidies, and even the fare can discourage some people from using it. I mean $2.75 and no free transfer to/from the subway, I wouldn’t ride it if I needed to transfer. It would honestly be justified if fares were integrated into the  system or if I were starting/ending my trip at a terminal at either end.

I also like the idea of a Belt Pkwy route as well, although I feel that the  may need a permit to have the route on the Pkwy, but it does work. I’ll wait for the rest of your route proposals so I can give feedback.

And speaking of the Belt Pkwy, have any plans for better access between Southern Brooklyn and JFK Airport?

Yes, a new route from Bay Ridge.

[aemoreira81]

1 hour ago, BrooklynBus said:

Extending the B36 to Kings Plaza was one of my proposals back in 1978, but the local merchants killed it. They claimed if we make it easier for anyone to get to Kings Plaza it will mean less business for us. So let's not give people more choice so they will be forced to shop in our stores. I hate that type of thinking and the fact they were able to get their way so we never made that proposal to the MTA. 

Anyway, back then it are some sense because everyone wanted to go to Kings Plaza. Today, many locals  avoid Kings Plaza, so I don't think the same demand exists today for that extension. The B4 is too long as it is. And yes there should be a direct bus  route from Sheepshead Bay to the Rockaways. Until the early 1960s there was a ferry from the foot of Ocean Avenue to Breezy Point for 25 cents each way. It had lasted many years without any subsidy. So obviously there was demand. 

Someone else mentioned how Knapp Street has no service, but the B4 doesn't run that often. With the B36 to Kings Plaza, I would suggest that perhaps the B36 should run down Avenue X and Knapp Street, before reaching Avenue U. (Avenue Z does not reach Knapp Street.) With the use of Avenue X, there is direct service to the eastern part of the Sheepshead-Nostrand housing projects and Sheepshead Bay High School.

[Interested Rider]

6 hours ago, aemoreira81 said:

Someone else mentioned how Knapp Street has no service, but the B4 doesn't run that often. With the B36 to Kings Plaza, I would suggest that perhaps the B36 should run down Avenue X and Knapp Street, before reaching Avenue U. (Avenue Z does not reach Knapp Street.) With the use of Avenue X, there is direct service to the eastern part of the Sheepshead-Nostrand housing projects and Sheepshead Bay High School.

The B/36 does not need to be re-routed as the Nostrand Avenue corridor is where it gets the bulk of its riders and almost all of the riders that transfer from the B/44 transfer at Avenue U and not further down the route. The B/36 is already crowded by the time it reaches the Avenue X stop and in many cases during the non-rush hour loaded with standees. 

As far as the  Sheepshead-Nostrand houses are concerned, those closest to Avenue V they take the B/3 on Avenue U or walk to either the B/36 or B/44 local on Nostrand Avenue as they  have for many years. Those closest to Avenue X go to either the B/36 or the B/44 local and SBS stop. There is another reason as on the corner of Nostrand Avenue and Avenue X there is a Dunkin donuts/Baskin Robbins where many of these riders pick up Coffee and other things prior to boarding the bus. 

As far as the high school (there are two schools as the high school is at Batchelder Street and there is a Junior High School at Brown Street) , many of the students take advantage of the Baskin Robbins/Dunkin  Donuts in the morning and many of the fast food places in the afternoon. If you look at the B/44 Local and  SBS schedules, there is a large number of buses that terminate at Avenue X that are available for the students. What this does for this community is that it provides reverse service in the morning (to the Plaza in the morning and from there in the afternoon .

When others say that this community needs or will benefit from something be added to this community, they fail to understand how this community has changed over the years. First of all, it has the highest percentage of seniors in Brooklyn and and second many of the young people who live in this community now drive either to and from work or to go to other places. This provides the added mobility that enables the person to go to places outside the community. If you compare the B/36 schedule from 20 years ago wit today, you will notice how the ridership has changed since that time.

For those who want further information on what I just wrote see my previous post on the subject and look at google maps for Nostrand Evenue (#s 3500 -3700) and then compare it with Knapp Street (2200 on down).

 

 

 

[Lex]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

The B/36 does not need to be re-routed as the Nostrand Avenue corridor is where it gets the bulk of its riders and almost all of the riders that transfer from the B/44 transfer at Avenue U and not further down the route. The B/36 is already crowded by the time it reaches the Avenue X stop and in many cases during the non-rush hour loaded with standees. 

As far as the  Sheepshead-Nostrand houses are concerned, those closest to Avenue V they take the B/3 on Avenue U or walk to either the B/36 or B/44 local on Nostrand Avenue as they  have for many years. Those closest to Avenue X go to either the B/36 or the B/44 local and SBS stop. There is another reason as on the corner of Nostrand Avenue and Avenue X there is a Dunkin donuts/Baskin Robbins where many of these riders pick up Coffee and other things prior to boarding the bus. 

As far as the high school (there are two schools as the high school is at Batchelder Street and there is a Junior High School at Brown Street) , many of the students take advantage of the Baskin Robbins/Dunkin  Donuts in the morning and many of the fast food places in the afternoon. If you look at the B/44 Local and  SBS schedules, there is a large number of buses that terminate at Avenue X that are available for the students. What this does for this community is that it provides reverse service in the morning (to the Plaza in the morning and from there in the afternoon .

When others say that this community needs or will benefit from something be added to this community, they fail to understand how this community has changed over the years. First of all, it has the highest percentage of seniors in Brooklyn and and second many of the young people who live in this community now drive either to and from work or to go to other places. This provides the added mobility that enables the person to go to places outside the community. If you compare the B/36 schedule from 20 years ago wit today, you will notice how the ridership has changed since that time.

For those who want further information on what I just wrote see my previous post on the subject and look at google maps for Nostrand Evenue (#s 3500 -3700) and then compare it with Knapp Street (2200 on down).

 

 

 

Not to mention that the bulk of people already living on or near Knapp Street between Avenue X and Gerritsen Avenue (it doesn't directly meet Avenue U) are in reasonably close proximity to the B31 and can take it to Kings Highway if they're looking for  service (instead of more substantial backtracking by going to the Sheepshead Bay station).

[DetSMART45]

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

The B/36 does not need to be re-routed as the Nostrand Avenue corridor is where it gets the bulk of its riders and almost all of the riders that transfer from the B/44 transfer at Avenue U and not further down the route. The B/36 is already crowded by the time it reaches the Avenue X stop and in many cases during the non-rush hour loaded with standees. 

As far as the  Sheepshead-Nostrand houses are concerned, those closest to Avenue V they take the B/3 on Avenue U or walk to either the B/36 or B/44 local on Nostrand Avenue as they  have for many years. Those closest to Avenue X go to either the B/36 or the B/44 local and SBS stop. There is another reason as on the corner of Nostrand Avenue and Avenue X there is a Dunkin donuts/Baskin Robbins where many of these riders pick up Coffee and other things prior to boarding the bus. 

As far as the high school (there are two schools as the high school is at Batchelder Street and there is a Junior High School at Brown Street) , many of the students take advantage of the Baskin Robbins/Dunkin  Donuts in the morning and many of the fast food places in the afternoon. If you look at the B/44 Local and  SBS schedules, there is a large number of buses that terminate at Avenue X that are available for the students. What this does for this community is that it provides reverse service in the morning (to the Plaza in the morning and from there in the afternoon .

When others say that this community needs or will benefit from something be added to this community, they fail to understand how this community has changed over the years. First of all, it has the highest percentage of seniors in Brooklyn and and second many of the young people who live in this community now drive either to and from work or to go to other places. This provides the added mobility that enables the person to go to places outside the community. If you compare the B/36 schedule from 20 years ago wit today, you will notice how the ridership has changed since that time.

For those who want further information on what I just wrote see my previous post on the subject and look at google maps for Nostrand Evenue (#s 3500 -3700) and then compare it with Knapp Street (2200 on down).

 

4 minutes ago, Lex said:

Not to mention that the bulk of people already living on or near Knapp Street between Avenue X and Gerritsen Avenue (it doesn't directly meet Avenue U) are in reasonably close proximity to the B31 and can take it to Kings Highway if they're looking for  service (instead of more substantial backtracking by going to the Sheepshead Bay station).

All points that I very easily discerned just by studying the Google Maps' satellite of the area. I didn't go rummaging through the Census data (something that ANY transit planner [or "planner", on these threads] spends plenty of time doing when trying to bring a route idea to financially-feasible fruition) for the area between Nostrand Av and Gerritsen Av, but in the 2018 NYCHA Fact Book, Sheepshead has 1056 units (2399 residents) and Nostrand has 1148 units (2362 residents). So around 4700 residents in a two block square, and maybe something edging north of that figure for the remaining "unserved area" bisected by Knapp St. And then no real "draw" points along Knapp St (commercial) between the Little League and the sewer plant.

So, peel a few folks off the B44, convince some not to walk up to Av U (for the B3), add in some off the B31, and just hope that those who use their cars (plenty of those in driveways/on the streets seen on the satellite pic) decide, "Ya know, I'm gonna take the bus now". Mighty big expectations for such a concentrated area.

[B35 via Church]

Let's call a spade a spade.... Knapp st. as a routing choice for some Sheepshead-Rockaway route or (now) some B36 extension to Kings Plaza to take, has less to do with serving anyone along/around it & more to do with being an unofficial bypass to (minimally & inclusively) get b/w Sheepshead Bay proper & Kings Plaza... In laymens, it's a quicker route to take between those two points.... That's all & that's it....

B36's on Knapp, smfh.... As if it isn't enough that an unfounded Sheepshead-Rockaway route has been discussed ad nauseam on here & the B36 to Kings Plaza idea in & of itself has been resurrected....

2 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

The B/36 does not need to be re-routed as the Nostrand Avenue corridor is where it gets the bulk of its riders and almost all of the riders that transfer from the B/44 transfer at Avenue U and not further down the route. The B/36 is already crowded by the time it reaches the Avenue X stop and in many cases during the non-rush hour loaded with standees.

Bu.. bbu... but the EB B36 starts to tank, the minute it turns onto Nostrand....

Edited May 5, 2019 by B35 via Church

[Lex]

29 minutes ago, DetSMART45 said:

 

All points that I very easily discerned just by studying the Google Maps' satellite of the area. I didn't go rummaging through the Census data (something that ANY transit planner [or "planner", on these threads] spends plenty of time doing when trying to bring a route idea to financially-feasible fruition) for the area between Nostrand Av and Gerritsen Av, but in the 2018 NYCHA Fact Book, Sheepshead has 1056 units (2399 residents) and Nostrand has 1148 units (2362 residents). So around 4700 residents in a two block square, and maybe something edging north of that figure for the remaining "unserved area" bisected by Knapp St. And then no real "draw" points along Knapp St (commercial) between the Little League and the sewer plant.

So, peel a few folks off the B44, convince some not to walk up to Av U (for the B3), add in some off the B31, and just hope that those who use their cars (plenty of those in driveways/on the streets seen on the satellite pic) decide, "Ya know, I'm gonna take the bus now". Mighty big expectations for such a concentrated area.

Exactly why I and B35 have basically said that anyone insisting that Knapp Street desperately needs a bus route is full of it.

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, DetSMART45 said:

 

All points that I very easily discerned just by studying the Google Maps' satellite of the area. I didn't go rummaging through the Census data (something that ANY transit planner [or "planner", on these threads] spends plenty of time doing when trying to bring a route idea to financially-feasible fruition) for the area between Nostrand Av and Gerritsen Av, but in the 2018 NYCHA Fact Book, Sheepshead has 1056 units (2399 residents) and Nostrand has 1148 units (2362 residents). So around 4700 residents in a two block square, and maybe something edging north of that figure for the remaining "unserved area" bisected by Knapp St. And then no real "draw" points along Knapp St (commercial) between the Little League and the sewer plant.

So, peel a few folks off the B44, convince some not to walk up to Av U (for the B3), add in some off the B31, and just hope that those who use their cars (plenty of those in driveways/on the streets seen on the satellite pic) decide, "Ya know, I'm gonna take the bus now". Mighty big expectations for such a concentrated area.

Funny how no one mentions the UA multiplex theater, the only movie theater left in southern Brooklyn, or the three nursing homes as draws. 

[bwwnyc123]

B36 doesn't need to serve Kings Plaza because it connects with B3 at Avenue U. Riders from Kings Plaza that needs the Brighton Line or service could take B3 to Avenue U Subway Stop or B2 to Kings Hwy or B9 to Avenue M.

 

[JeremiahC99]

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Funny how no one mentions the UA multiplex theater, the only movie theater left in southern Brooklyn, or the three nursing homes as draws. 

I forgot about them, but they can draw a huge ridership, especially during blockbuster season at the movie theater, when big movies come out. Avengers: Endgame came out a few weeks ago (don't grill me on it) and in August 2018, one of the biggest movies of that season, Crazy Rich Asians, also came out to much fanfare. Both drew in really huge crowds eager to see these movies. If the Knapp Street bus route had existed in both 2018 and 2019, then that can draw even more theater goers to the movies.

[Future ENY OP]

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Funny how no one mentions the UA multiplex theater, the only movie theater left in southern Brooklyn, or the three nursing homes as draws. 

Those 3 nursing homes are serviced by the B4 and 44 and as for the UA Theater. Mostly car centric people go to that theater, but also the B4 services that area. 

As for this Knapp Street bus service: The NIMBY people in that area would prefer NO bus service on that stretch of Sheepshead Bay. Sheepshead is mostly car centric.  Although, you have Nostrand Avenue, Avenue U, Avenue Z bus service that should stay the way it is. The only thing Knapp Street should be used is for deadheads and detours. That is it. 

The same is felt with Gerristen Beach. Although you have the B31 and BM4, they don’t have as much issues as Sheepshead. 

Plain and simple. It boils down to politics in Southern Brooklyn. Delegation doesn’t care about transit. However, the first to complain when it comes to service cuts. 

[BrooklynBus]

3 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Those 3 nursing homes are serviced by the B4 and 44 and as for the UA Theater. Mostly car centric people go to that theater, but also the B4 services that area. 

As for this Knapp Street bus service: The NIMBY people in that area would prefer NO bus service on that stretch of Sheepshead Bay. Sheepshead is mostly car centric.  Although, you have Nostrand Avenue, Avenue U, Avenue Z bus service that should stay the way it is. The only thing Knapp Street should be used is for deadheads and detours. That is it. 

The same is felt with Gerristen Beach. Although you have the B31 and BM4, they don’t have as much issues as Sheepshead. 

Plain and simple. It boils down to politics in Southern Brooklyn. Delegation doesn’t care about transit. However, the first to complain when it comes to service cuts. 

Your last sentence is very true. Yes this area is car centric but I think of all those without access to cars specially the kids who can hardly afford an Uber. As far as NIMBYs, I have no use for them unless their objections are based on sound reasoning. Gerritsen Beach is another story. They resent outsiders and don’t want easy access to their community, but would like better connections for themselves. 

3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I forgot about them, but they can draw a huge ridership, especially during blockbuster season at the movie theater, when big movies come out. Avengers: Endgame came out a few weeks ago (don't grill me on it) and in August 2018, one of the biggest movies of that season, Crazy Rich Asians, also came out to much fanfare. Both drew in really huge crowds eager to see these movies. If the Knapp Street bus route had existed in both 2018 and 2019, then that can draw even more theater goers to the movies.

Especially since the theaters at Kings Plaza closed.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

23 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

I agree that there should be a route between Sheepshead Bay and the Rockaway. Any routing between the two areas would have to pass through Kings Plaza and operate along the Knapp Street corridor. On the bright side, Knapp Street would have bus service there, and since the population prefer to the Sheepshead Bay station, this would provide residents east of Batchelder Street with a closer route to the station. No more trudging all the way to Nostrand Avenue to catch an overcrowded B36 in the morning. Now they would have a closer route with seats available. However, headway’s on this new route would be contingent on available resources, since we only have finite buses for tour routes. JFK Depot and Far Rockaway Depot (which operates the routes in the Rockaways) has 289 buses in total, with around 50-55 standard Orion VII OG Hybrids In rotation with Far Rockaway Depot, so taking that into account, headway’s need to be properly determined.

Would it also make sense to have that ferry route to Breezy Point revived alongside this new bus route?

 

23 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

All the ferries require heavy subsidies and I don’t think Breezy Point would want it. I have come up with a better route to Rockaway using the Belt Parkway now that it has been reconstructed. I renumbered it to Q45 from Q51. I would have another route on Knapp St.

I don’t know why anyone brings up Breezy Point for. It’s a private cooperative and they don’t want any insiders coming there, so they are content driving to the QM16 at Riis Park or driving in general.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

Your last sentence is very true. Yes this area is car centric but I think of all those without access to cars specially the kids who can hardly afford an Uber. As far as NIMBYs, I have no use for them unless their objections are based on sound reasoning. Gerritsen Beach is another story. They resent outsiders and don’t want easy access to their community, but would like better connections for themselves. 

Especially since the theaters at Kings Plaza closed.

I can agree with the Gerritsen Beach comment. I grew up hanging up with the folks down there. The other thing that is left out is that a lot of these folks work for the City as policeman, firefighters, etc, so they tend to drive. The people that work in Manhattan will take the B31 to Kings Highway for the train, or BM4 express bus.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[JeremiahC99]

1 minute ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

I don’t know why anyone brings up Breezy Point for. It’s a private cooperative and they don’t any insiders coming there, so they are content driving to the QM16 at Riis Park or driving in general.

The ferry dock at the foot of the Bridge near the neighborhood is the closest landing for any viable reincarnation of a Sheepshead Bay-Rockaway route without interference with the NYC Ferry route at Beach 108th Street. The NYC Ferry route will continue to serve Beach 108th Street for Manhattan-bound commuters.

However, ferries do require heavy subsidies and I doubt the fare would be incorporated with the NYC Bus and Subways. If not incorporated, then they are just better off with a new bus route.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

On 5/4/2019 at 9:06 PM, BrooklynBus said:

Extending the B36 to Kings Plaza was one of my proposals back in 1978, but the local merchants killed it. They claimed if we make it easier for anyone to get to Kings Plaza it will mean less business for us. So let's not give people more choice so they will be forced to shop in our stores. I hate that type of thinking and the fact they were able to get their way so we never made that proposal to the MTA. 

Anyway, back then it are some sense because everyone wanted to go to Kings Plaza. Today, many locals  avoid Kings Plaza, so I don't think the same demand exists today for that extension. The B4 is too long as it is. And yes there should be a direct bus  route from Sheepshead Bay to the Rockaways. Until the early 1960s there was a ferry from the foot of Ocean Avenue to Breezy Point for 25 cents each way. It had lasted many years without any subsidy. So obviously there was demand. 

The B36 is problematic as it is, and I say this as someone whose home lines were the B4, B36 and B49, but the B36 ran around the corner from the street I lived on. An extension to Kings Plaza... LMAO... Today? Please. That is not a destination place for people in the area, not to mention that the demographics have changed in that immediate area anyway. It’s like going to the hood, and it was turning into that even when I still lived in Brooklyn. All of my friends that I grew up with in Mill Basin, Gerritsen Beach, Sheepshead Bay, etc.  All started going to the malls on Staten Island, or like myself, started going to NJ for civilized shopping. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The ferry dock at the foot of the Bridge near the neighborhood is the closest landing for any viable reincarnation of a Sheepshead Bay-Rockaway route without interference with the NYC Ferry route at Beach 108th Street. The NYC Ferry route will continue to serve Beach 108th Street for Manhattan-bound commuters.

However, ferries do require heavy subsidies and I doubt the fare would be incorporated with the NYC Bus and Subways. If not incorporated, then they are just better off with a new bus route.

I don’t think you’re understanding. The people in Breezy Point like being secluded and it is not a coincidence that there is no bus service there. As I said, they are content driving to Riis Park for the QM16. They are insular bunch, so they do not want public transportation there. People don’t know the history of Breezy Point, but it is a very clickish area. You won’t get to move in there unless you have three references from residents already living there. That should tell you all you need to know. One way in and one way out... No outsiders, which is what bus service would bring. 

There are plenty of other examples where cooperatives or other small communities exclude public transit to either keep outsiders out or remain exclusive. North Shore Towers does this as well. They only allow the QM6 express bus in there private grounds so that their residents have direct access to Manhattan for work or mantinées. No local bus though.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

8 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I can agree with the Gerritsen Beach comment. I grew up hanging up with the folks down there. The other thing that is left out is that a lot of these folks work for the City as policeman, firefighters, etc, so they tend to drive. The people that work in Manhattan will take the B31 or BM4 express bus.

But, God forbid if they need to go somewhere else in Brooklyn and there is no car available,  most trips are three buses and two fares.

5 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

The ferry dock at the foot of the Bridge near the neighborhood is the closest landing for any viable reincarnation of a Sheepshead Bay-Rockaway route without interference with the NYC Ferry route at Beach 108th Street. The NYC Ferry route will continue to serve Beach 108th Street for Manhattan-bound commuters.

However, ferries do require heavy subsidies and I doubt the fare would be incorporated with the NYC Bus and Subways. If not incorporated, then they are just better off with a new bus route.

Agree.

2 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

The B36 is problematic as it is, and I say this as someone whose home lines were the B4, B36 and B49, but the B36 ran around the corner from the street I lived on. An extension to Kings Plaza... LMAO... Today? Please. That is not a destination place for people in the area, not to mention that the demographics have changed in that immediate area anyway. It’s like going to the hood, and it was turning into that even when I still lived in Brooklyn. All of my friends that I grew up with in Mill Basin, Gerritsen Beach, Sheepshead Bay, etc.  All started going to the malls on Staten Island, or like myself, started going to NJ for civilized shopping. 

It’s really ironic what happened with Kings Plaza. Before 1971, the place to shop in. Brooklyn was Downtown Brooklyn where all the fine stores were. Then Kings Plaza came and it became the in place to shop, single handedly killing Downtown Brooklyn which turned into shlock stores. Then Kings Plaza started to decline and Downtown Brooklyn began a resurgence starting with MetroTech. Now Kings Plaza is viewed as a slum.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, BrooklynBus said:

But, God forbid if they need to go somewhere else in Brooklyn and there is no car available,  most trips are three buses and two fares.

Agree.

It’s really ironic what happened with Kings Plaza. Before 1971, the place to shop in. Brooklyn was Downtown Brooklyn where all the fine stores were. Then Kings Plaza came and it became the in place to shop, single handedly killing Downtown Brooklyn which turned into shlock stores. Then Kings Plaza started to decline and Downtown Brooklyn began a resurgence starting with MetroTech. Now Kings Plaza is viewed as a slum.

You can blame that on Old Mill Basin changing. The demographic changes started it. I used to hang out a lot a short ways away in Mill Basin, so I saw the shift happening in Old Mill Basin. Bergen Beach and Mill Basin have remained relatively the same in terms of demographics only because both are quite expensive (Mill Basin is just as pricey as your neighborhood in parts of Manhattan Beach), but Old Mill Basin was cheaper and thus the demographics changed. That is mainly who goes to the mall now. I think I visited that place a few times after we moved briefly to Midwood via the B9 or the B2 depending on the circumstances, and it was very clear that it wasn’t the same place. The same quality of stores wasn’t there either. We moved to Staten Island shortly after.

[BrooklynBus]

3 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You can blame that on Old Mill Basin changing. The demographic changes started it. I used to hang out a lot a short ways away in Mill Basin, so I saw the shift happening in Old Mill Basin. Bergen Beach and Mill Basin have remained relatively the same in terms of demographics only because both are quite expensive (Mill Basin is just as pricey as your neighborhood in parts of Manhattan Beach), but Old Mill Basin was cheaper and thus the demographics changed. That is mainly who goes to the mall now. I think I visited that place a few times after we moved briefly to Midwood via the B9 or the B2 depending on the circumstances, and it was very clear that it wasn’t the same place. The same quality of stores wasn’t there either. We moved to Staten Island shortly after.

It still gets many users from the B41 and B41 and I assume the B47 around the corner which I really don’t see much. Forget about any of the other bus routes serving it. Not nearly as in the old days. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

But, God forbid if they need to go somewhere else in Brooklyn and there is no car available,  most trips are three buses and two fares.

Agree.

It’s really ironic what happened with Kings Plaza. Before 1971, the place to shop in. Brooklyn was Downtown Brooklyn where all the fine stores were. Then Kings Plaza came and it became the in place to shop, single handedly killing Downtown Brooklyn which turned into shlock stores. Then Kings Plaza started to decline and Downtown Brooklyn began a resurgence starting with MetroTech. Now Kings Plaza is viewed as a slum.

Your car comment is interesting though. I always felt like Knapp Street was closely aligned with Gerritsen Beach in terms of the demographic living there. More insular and also more of the type that would work for the City. They tend to have multiple cars too. Whenever I would hang out in Gerritsen Beach, there’s a street that you can cut over to get to it from Sheepshead Bay. You can’t really tell the difference between that part of Sheepshead Bay and old Gerritsen Beach (you know why I’m calling it that being that we’re from Southern Brooklyn), but that area is similar in terms of housing too. The newer part of Gerrtisen near Avenue U is more built up.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

5 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

It still gets many users from the B41 and B41 and I assume the B47 around the corner which I really don’t see much. Forget about any of the other bus routes serving it. Not nearly as in the old days. 

Of course it does. You had elderly whites that lived there that basically died off or sold for what they could get for their houses and moved to Florida. They used the bus service to some extent, but now you have younger families moving in there that maybe have one car so they have their kids use the local buses or whatever. To be honest, the only reason Mill Basin hasn’t changed is because like Manhattan Beach, it is waterfront property, so it will remain expensive. That said, in 20 years, I think that area may change a bit.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Via Garibaldi 8