Planned Subway Service Changes

[Lawrence St]

20 minutes ago, Lex said:

The solution is to run the  on its truncated route as a local outside of Midtown.

Then run it to Forest Hills. 

And end it where? 2nd?

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

The solution is to run the  on its truncated route as a local outside of Midtown.

Then run it to Forest Hills. 

I’d be all for the  running it’s full route but if the issue is lack of train crews, then just end the train at 57 St and reverse back to Brooklyn. We now know that only 10  trains are needed for service to 57 St-6 Av every 10 minutes weekdays, and currently, the  to Essex St every 8 minutes needs 9 train sets for service every 8 minutes. If you cut the weekend  to 12 minutes then maybe those same 9  trains could run to 57 St, and immediately have another crew there ready to take the train back to Brooklyn.

[Wallyhorse]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

I fully support an  extension but want it to 145th St & CPW on weekends to help out the .

I was going to say the same things.  Running the to 145 on weekends in place of the would work.

Yes, I know it would mean a different terminal on weekends as opposed to during the week, but this is a case where it could be worth doing.  

[Lex]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

And end it where? 2nd?

Why don't you read what I said more carefully and think about what my word choice is hinting at?

[Lawrence St]

14 minutes ago, Lex said:

Why don't you read what I said more carefully and think about what my word choice is hinting at?

Why don’t you just straight out say it, this isn’t wheel of fortune…

[Lawrence St]

58 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

I’d be all for the  running it’s full route but if the issue is lack of train crews, then just end the train at 57 St and reverse back to Brooklyn. We now know that only 10  trains are needed for service to 57 St-6 Av every 10 minutes weekdays, and currently, the  to Essex St every 8 minutes needs 9 train sets for service every 8 minutes. If you cut the weekend  to 12 minutes then maybe those same 9  trains could run to 57 St, and immediately have another crew there ready to take the train back to Brooklyn.

The problem with running the  to 57th or even 96th is the constant switching and bottle necking. I’d rather just send the  to 145th for minimal impact to operations.

[Kamen Rider]

Which creates a problem with any time we use 145 lower for turning the C or shortlineing the D.

 

which given the whole situation with the concourse line… is not currently feasible.

[Lex]

3 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Why don’t you just straight out say it, this isn’t wheel of fortune…

Exactly how much do you know about the ?

[Jemorie]

On 2/10/2024 at 11:42 PM, Lex said:

Exactly how much do you know about the ?

Forget him. He’s always saying stuff without thinking critically and logically.

Anyways, I agree that the weekend  should run to Forest Hills, not 145th. But then you also got other individuals proposing to have the  run to Forest Hills on weekends, and it’s a whole bunch of back and fourth if one side does not see eye to eye with the other. But hey.

[Kamen Rider]

and these arguments never seem to consider the issue of manpower. 

making a line longer, means you need more people to run it. 

let's take an example of all the claims the J or at least the Z, should go via the Montague tube.

The J/Z operates on what we can call a "single base" model. with the exception of the crews that report to East New York Yard and one crew whose day ends at Broad Street, everyone starts and ends their day at Parsons/Archer. this is because the J's length makes it tolerable. a full round trip, including relaying the train at broad street, is just about two hours, with the possibility of a quick "comfort" (read; bathroom break) at Broad if we need it, and two hours is about the limit of our average physical tolerance to continus work.

 

Now, most J jobs are three round trips and most fit into a standard 8 hour working day. you start making the line longer, You will ether start having to dig into more jobs with built in automatic overtime OR, cut it down to two trips, meaning you need MORE crews to keep service levels the same. 

[Wallyhorse]

13 minutes ago, Kamen Rider said:

and these arguments never seem to consider the issue of manpower. 

making a line longer, means you need more people to run it. 

let's take an example of all the claims the J or at least the Z, should go via the Montague tube.

The J/Z operates on what we can call a "single base" model. with the exception of the crews that report to East New York Yard and one crew whose day ends at Broad Street, everyone starts and ends their day at Parsons/Archer. this is because the J's length makes it tolerable. a full round trip, including relaying the train at broad street, is just about two hours, with the possibility of a quick "comfort" (read; bathroom break) at Broad if we need it, and two hours is about the limit of our average physical tolerance to continus work.

Now, most J jobs are three round trips and most fit into a standard 8 hour working day. you start making the line longer, You will ether start having to dig into more jobs with built in automatic overtime OR, cut it down to two trips, meaning you need MORE crews to keep service levels the same. 

And this was partially why originally I had said on weekends about terminating the at West 4th and using the crossover in the express tunnel to turn while the runs on the local tracks from Broadway-Lafayette to 34th before crossing back at 42nd Street.  I was in that scenario talking about only two additional stops for the , but both are critical transfer points as riders on the  can then transfer to the at Broadway-Lafayette (yes, you can also transfer to the  at Essex-Delancey but Broadway-Lafayette is same platform) and West 4th for the .  Maybe it can be done where on weekends the goes to 42nd and terminate on the southbound express track there with a crew ready to go at 42nd and have the train go right back southbound since that would have two more key transfer points at 34th and 42nd as well.   

[zacster]

34 minutes ago, Wallyhorse said:

And this was partially why originally I had said on weekends about terminating the at West 4th and using the crossover in the express tunnel to turn while the runs on the local tracks from Broadway-Lafayette to 34th before crossing back at 42nd Street.  I was in that scenario talking about only two additional stops for the , but both are critical transfer points as riders on the  can then transfer to the at Broadway-Lafayette (yes, you can also transfer to the  at Essex-Delancey but Broadway-Lafayette is same platform) and West 4th for the .  Maybe it can be done where on weekends the goes to 42nd and terminate on the southbound express track there with a crew ready to go at 42nd and have the train go right back southbound since that would have two more key transfer points at 34th and 42nd as well.   

Too much crossing over to work even on a weekend.  If anything just send it to Chambers on the weekend so riders can get the Canal St transfer.

[Kamen Rider]

yeah, chambers would make more sense than west 4th... which is not equipped to be a terminal. 

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

yeah, chambers would make more sense than west 4th... which is not equipped to be a terminal. 

I believe before the express tunnel was built, West 4th used to terminate trains on the "express" tracks.  I would think they could use some of the mezzanine at West 4th as crew quarters if necessary if W4 began terminating the  on weekends.

And you could also do it where the  remains express on 6th Avenue with if a train gets to Broadway-Lafayette at the same time as an (M), the  goes through first and then the  crosses over to terminate at West 4th,  This again is about providing additional transfer points off the to other lines on weekends.  The two extra stops on the  provide this to those riders. 

[TDL]

2 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I believe before the express tunnel was built, West 4th used to terminate trains on the "express" tracks.  I would think they could use some of the mezzanine at West 4th as crew quarters if necessary if W4 began terminating the  on weekends.

And you could also do it where the  remains express on 6th Avenue with if a train gets to Broadway-Lafayette at the same time as an (M), the  goes through first and then the  crosses over to terminate at West 4th,  This again is about providing additional transfer points off the to other lines on weekends.  The two extra stops on the  provide this to those riders. 

This has too many points of failure with the switches.
 

If it must go past Essex, it must go to 57th, 96th, or 145th.

Heres how I’d run things on weekday AND weekend 

-Brighton Beach-Forest Hills via. Brighton Express/6th Ave Express/63rd St/QBL Local

-Lefferts Blvd-Forest Hills, via, Fulton LCL/8th EXP/QBL Local
-unchanged

-Metropolitan Ave-145th St/BPB via 8th Ave LCL

-unchanged

-Rockaway Pk-190th St. Stops at 155th St and 163rd St. 

[Kamen Rider]

This plan of yours, Wally, requires a dispatcher at west 4th and “switch” train operators. Not everyone is comfortable being in a relay with people who refuse to get off the trains. And the train operator has to walk through the train, possibly endangering themselves, unless every train is cleaned out every time. 
 

and the plan also includes more points of failure. Having to make all these unnecessary moves.

And… Like… given this is the service change thread:
last weekend, the A and C were running via Rutgers. There would be no room for the M.

[TDL]

15 hours ago, TDL said:

This has too many points of failure with the switches.
 

If it must go past Essex, it must go to 57th, 96th, or 145th.

Heres how I’d run things on weekday AND weekend 

-Brighton Beach-Forest Hills via. Brighton Express/6th Ave Express/63rd St/QBL Local

-Lefferts Blvd-Forest Hills, via, Fulton LCL/8th EXP/QBL Local
-unchanged

-Metropolitan Ave-145th St/BPB via 8th Ave LCL

-unchanged

-Rockaway Pk-190th St. Stops at 155th St and 163rd St. 

-unchanged. Skip stop service eliminated. Express in peak direction between Marcy Ave and Broadway Jct.

-Broadway Junction-Bay Ridge. 

[TDL]

Just now, TDL said:

-unchanged. Skip stop service eliminated. Express in peak direction between Marcy Ave and Broadway Jct.

-Broadway Junction-Bay Ridge. 

-Eliminated. 

[Lawrence St]

21 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

yeah, chambers would make more sense than west 4th... which is not equipped to be a terminal. 

I get wanting to keep jobs the same and tolerable, but why hasn’t anything been done about the weekend  cutting out conductors and being opto? Seems like it’s a waste of money and man power to continually keep separating and coupling together cars for two days.

[Maxwell179]

From 11:15 p.m. Friday to 5 a.m. Tuesday,  trains aren't running between Dyckman St and 116 St-Columbia University in either direction, and downtown trains aren't stopping at 207 St. This is because of structural maintenance.

trains are running in two sections: 

Between 242 St-Van Cortlandt Park and Dyckman St, every 12 minutes during the day and evening.

Between 116 St-Columbia University and South Ferry, every 8 minutes during the day and evening.

[Maxwell179]

Just now, Maxwell179 said:

From 11:15 p.m. Friday to 5 a.m. Tuesday,  trains aren't running between Dyckman St and 116 St-Columbia University in either direction, and downtown trains aren't stopping at 207 St. This is because of structural maintenance.

trains are running in two sections: 

Between 242 St-Van Cortlandt Park and Dyckman St, every 12 minutes during the day and evening.

Between 116 St-Columbia University and South Ferry, every 8 minutes during the day and evening.

Can someone explain how the 1 terminates at 116th ?

Edited February 16 by Maxwell179

[Chris89292]

In Queens, Flushing-bound skips Queensboro Plaza 

Beginning Mar 11, Mon 4 AM until Mar 15, Fri 11:59 PM

Astoria-bound  also skips Queensboro Plaza during this time. 

Use nearby Queens Plaza  or Court Sq  

Transfer to/from at Times Sq-42 St/Port Authority   , 5 Av/42 St-Bryant Pk For 74 St/Roosevelt Av  . 

What's happening?

We're making station improvements

[darkstar8983]

4 hours ago, Maxwell179 said:

Can someone explain how the 1 terminates at 116th ?

It dumps off passengers at 116 St then relays at 137 St (likely south of it right before the station, then reverse moves to the center track, then reversed back to the downtown track without fully platforming at 137 St), then back down to 116 St to Pick up passengers.

[Calvin]

"In Brooklyn, no between Brighton Beach and Coney Island-Stillwell Av   

Beginning Feb 16, Fri 9:45 PM until Feb 26, Mon 5 AM

runs between 96 St and Brighton Beach, the last stop. 

Shuttle Bus Free shuttle buses make stops between Brighton Beach and Coney Island.

Transfer between trains and Shuttle Bus at Brighton Beach or Coney Island Accessibility 

Take the  or   instead for direct service between Manhattan/Downtown Brooklyn and Coney Island. 

Transfer stations:

34 St-Herald Sq Accessibility |      

Atlantic Av-Barclays Ctr Accessibility |    

Note: During this time, there is no   service between Kings Hwy and Brighton Beach and no  service between Kings Hwy and Coney Island.   

What's happening?

We're replacing tracks"

Edited February 16 by Calvin

[Snowblock]

22 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

It dumps off passengers at 116 St then relays at 137 St (likely south of it right before the station, then reverse moves to the center track, then reversed back to the downtown track without fully platforming at 137 St), then back down to 116 St to Pick up passengers.

Huh? No, trains stay on tk 4 and then cross over north of 137 to the middle track, change ends and cross to tk 1 to go back south. 125 and 137 station are both closed due to e&e work but the trains are still doing long relays through there