How to alleviate overcrowding on the Lex lines with enhanced bus service

[AndrewJC]

Who said anything about SBS on Amsterdam or Lenox would alleviate overcrowding on a subway line on Lex????

 

 

The title of this thread is "How to alleviate overcrowding on the Lex lines with enhanced bus service." I suggested that doing so was impossible, and Via Garibaldi 8 (who initiated the thread) responded, "Depending on how far you have to walk to the versus the bus that may not necessarily be true since the Lex. lines don't run on Lex the entire time." I wasn't sure (and still aren't sure) what that has to do with the topic at hand, and checkmatechamp13 suggested, "I think when he said that they don't run on Lexington Avenue the entire time, he's referring to the fact that the M101/102 go on and serve other corridors besides 3rd/Lex."

 

If that's really what he meant, I'm asking what it has to do with the subject line.

 

The M15SBS was created by the TA to move people faster and take a little tension off Lex.

 

 

Take a little tension off Lex? In what MTA, NYCT, or DOT document did was that stated as an objective of SBS on the M15? If that really was an objective, then M15 SBS has failed miserably, since the Lex is no less crowded than it was prior to SBS.

 

Trying to reduce subway crowding by running more buses is like trying to drain the ocean with a thimble. It won't work but it will still require a lot of manpower ($$$).

[B35 via Church]

It's obvious you did not read gorgor's post.

It's obvious you still don't consider using the multiquote feature....

 

Really, two separate posts to tell GC that he didn't read gorgor's post & to point out to GC that there's bus service on 5th & madison ?

 

 

It is not more important that SAS but it fills a current transit gap while putting those DHs to use even if they are from SI some of em.

 

Fixing gaps in the network are more important than the unrealistic dream of getting subway riders onto a bus. However for lex line there may be a wierd solution to this allow open door MNRR use from 125th to grand central. Plus the crowds are there but on weekends you guys are overblowing the problem it is not as bad as you think.

 

- It aint as minor as you think either.... Just because you think a topic on a transit forum qualifies as "stupid unrealistic BS" doesn't make actual overcrowding on the lex any less important..... Instead of being dismissive regarding this discussion, how about standing down if you're not gonna contribute to it.... I mean, there's a thought....

 

- Fixing gaps in a network is more important? Depends on the situation.... You said it yourself, a west side hwy route isn't more important than SAS.... Since SAS aint coming no time soon, whoever started this thread felt like asking how can we alleviate overcrowding on the lex, w/ bus service (as opposed to SAS)....

 

(i.e. - Now if the M20 and the M11 had M15 or M101 type ridership for example, THEN I would maybe consider your point here about fixing gaps being more important.... Otherwise, No.)

 

- As far as getting subway riders onto a bus....

I'm not exactly defending that notion, so telling me how much of a dream that is, is immaterial...

[Grand Concourse]

Yup, smh. Not like I didn't think of 5th and Madison, but that's not 'close' to where the Lexington av is. Ideally the SBS should be closer to the subway, but everyone is so opposed to Lexington because of the current traffic problem like it's elsewhere or nothing. What if there were stricter enforcement? Keep the road clear. For someone that has so many 'ideas' it seems like anything contrary to what he thinks is 'no won't work' or 'don't bother to post'. Who died and made him dictator of the boards? Irt express is right about him, nuff said.

 

I think it must be a mass mentality because they say it won't work, then don't even bother. How about try it out first and then determine if it's a failure or not. I'll say this for the last time because it seems it's the subway, or anywhere that's not on Lexington av for SBS: this is not to be a 4th subway line, the idea is to help the 'spillover' of riders mainly for short distances. The subway can't carry everyone and you need a supplement service. How is it a bad thing to have a partial alternative? No one is saying 'take the bus if you are going from 125th to City Hall' or something. Of course the bus isn't the answer, but what else can you do with limited track space? Who's to say a person wants to walk an extra 2-3 blocks away just for the SBS if where they want to go us along Lexington av?

 

@ENY or the other mods: just close the thread. It's all become a circular argument with 2 opposing sides and some personal attacks. I don't see there being any resolution or close middle ground happening.

[Gorgor]

Yup, smh. Not like I didn't think of 5th and Madison, but that's not 'close' to where the Lexington av is. Ideally the SBS should be closer to the subway, but everyone is so opposed to Lexington because of the current traffic problem like it's elsewhere or nothing. What if there were stricter enforcement? Keep the road clear. For someone that has so many 'ideas' it seems like anything contrary to what he thinks is 'no won't work' or 'don't bother to post'. Who died and made him dictator of the boards? Irt express is right about him, nuff said.

 

I think it must be a mass mentality because they say it won't work, then don't even bother. How about try it out first and then determine if it's a failure or not. I'll say this for the last time because it seems it's the subway, or anywhere that's not on Lexington av for SBS: this is not to be a 4th subway line, the idea is to help the 'spillover' of riders mainly for short distances. The subway can't carry everyone and you need a supplement service. How is it a bad thing to have a partial alternative? No one is saying 'take the bus if you are going from 125th to City Hall' or something. Of course the bus isn't the answer, but what else can you do with limited track space? Who's to say a person wants to walk an extra 2-3 blocks away just for the SBS if where they want to go us along Lexington av?

 

@ENY or the other mods: just close the thread. It's all become a circular argument with 2 opposing sides and some personal attacks. I don't see there being any resolution or close middle ground happening.

 

 

Having SBS near a subway line defeats the purpose because anyone wanting speed will take the subway.

 

1st/2nd Avenues aren't near the subway, hence why the M15 SBS is always packed. If you ever take a look at M101 LTDs running down Lex then you can see that, at least during the AM rush, there's buses that have seats available.

[Mysterious2train]

Also, if SBS is the answer, WHICH COMPONENTS WILL HELP BUS SERVICE?

The M101 already has:

- limited service

- bus lanes

- from what I see, not that many people boarding buses (maybe around 5 per stop, 10 max)

 

 

SBS on Lexington Av isn't the answer.

 

Improved SBS on the M15 to make it reliable would help. Waiting 10+ minutes for a bus during rush hour because of bunching issues is ridiculous.

 

The extension of the M15 SBS to Lex isn't a bad idea either, although it should use 124th/126th Streets to avoid heavy traffic and turn around like the M35 does. That would also help riders from MetroNorth going to/from the East Side avoid the )

 

 

Bus lane aside, wasn't the M15 Limited pretty similar? I mean, before SBS started on the M15 the local and the Limited had pretty even ridership. [Here's my sauce, page 16] Now the SBS ridership far exceeds the local, and it's clear why. I'd argue it's the same for the M101. Not too many people wait specifically for the M101, like you say. I notice the 102 and 103 have pretty solid loads, and part of that is likely because the 101 is perceived as not saving much time, and people can just take whatever comes first. With the 15. it's still do-able, just not as conventional.

 

Put SBS on the 101 and I can almost guarantee that will change. Maybe there'll even be some riders emigrating from the M15. I imagine some 101/102/103 riders flocked to the 15 when SBS started.

 

SBS can only save but so much time, but the perception of saving time would be very attractive, and we'll see M15-style loads waiting for the 101, instead of the 102 or 103. Let's say there's an offset bus lane from 96th St down to 60th St added, with bus bulbs. On a good day, an average trip from 86th St down to 34th St would only save 4 minutes over the Limited. Honestly, I think that's pretty reasonable. It's not subway-tier, but it doesn't have to be.

 

On weekdays, the 101/102/103 combined would probably have around 35-40K riders a day (I'm only guesstimating, since we have no idea how many riders are on the upper portions of the 101 and 102. All I know is, the 101 gets around 7, 800 riders on 125th St, and the M100 get around 6,800.) But 35-40K isn't bad, that's 7th or 8th in the city. It just looks small compared to the busier line next to it (and I guess lines on the other side of it) and the subway below it. And I don't know how the 98 figures in, since it lost a lot of ridership after 2010, around 1300-1500 daily).

 

I'm not against improving the 15 but with the 101 and 103 at 125/Lex the 15 would only serve to take riders from them. As for bus bunching, is it a problem, but it's pretty par for the course with something so frequent with the 15 SBS, and things like SAS construction and traffic getting onto the Queensboro Bridge only makes things worse. I mean, the traffic along the 15 isn't going away anytime soon, but it's accepted and I don't think anyone thinks SBS wouldn't be useful because of that. Also talking about the 15, we're not gonna see any service terminating below 125th St any time soon, as long as the route is out of 126th St Depot anyway.

 

The traffic on Lex is pretty bad but how exactly are things going to get any better if we maintain the status quo?

 

I kinda wish the DOT really would make an extra driving lane in Midtown during Rush Hour on the left-most lane of the street, and set up that lane for taxi-dropoffs [and I guess pick-ups too.] I especially like the idea of an offset bus lane here, because as you mentioned many buses run on Lexington so stationary buses at stops would be an obstacle.

 

On the topic of bus lanes, the M101 only has bus lanes in the heart of Midtown, whereas the M15 has them from 125th all the way down to Houston [save the SAS construction zones] so they're not quite the same.

 

As for the subway vs. the bus, I think that's not the best argument because it leads to a slippery slope. Why is there Limited service on the 101 when the subway is underneath? You could use the same 'speed' argument against that.

 

I also think the L-shaped part of the route is important too and it would really benefit from a faster option but I won't re-tread that ground.

 

As for 5th and Madison it is pretty busy but I can't really figure out how the logistics of it would work. Right now the routes only use 40' foot buses and they can't really be converted to artics without increasing their headaways. I mean, outside Rush Hour only one of the four routes could really reasonably become SBS and how would that route run above 110th St?

[Grand Concourse]

Bus lane aside, wasn't the M15 Limited pretty similar? I mean, before SBS started on the M15 the local and the Limited had pretty even ridership. [Here's my sauce, page 16] Now the SBS ridership far exceeds the local, and it's clear why. I'd argue it's the same for the M101. Not too many people wait specifically for the M101, like you say. I notice the 102 and 103 have pretty solid loads, and part of that is likely because the 101 is perceived as not saving much time, and people can just take whatever comes first. With the 15. it's still do-able, just not as conventional.

 

Put SBS on the 101 and I can almost guarantee that will change. Maybe there'll even be some riders emigrating from the M15. I imagine some 101/102/103 riders flocked to the 15 when SBS started.

 

SBS can only save but so much time, but the perception of saving time would be very attractive, and we'll see M15-style loads waiting for the 101, instead of the 102 or 103. Let's say there's an offset bus lane from 96th St down to 60th St added, with bus bulbs. On a good day, an average trip from 86th St down to 34th St would only save 4 minutes over the Limited. Honestly, I think that's pretty reasonable. It's not subway-tier, but it doesn't have to be.

 

On weekdays, the 101/102/103 combined would probably have around 35-40K riders a day (I'm only guesstimating, since we have no idea how many riders are on the upper portions of the 101 and 102. All I know is, the 101 gets around 7, 800 riders on 125th St, and the M100 get around 6,800.) But 35-40K isn't bad, that's 7th or 8th in the city. It just looks small compared to the busier line next to it (and I guess lines on the other side of it) and the subway below it. And I don't know how the 98 figures in, since it lost a lot of ridership after 2010, around 1300-1500 daily).

 

I'm not against improving the 15 but with the 101 and 103 at 125/Lex the 15 would only serve to take riders from them. As for bus bunching, is it a problem, but it's pretty par for the course with something so frequent with the 15 SBS, and things like SAS construction and traffic getting onto the Queensboro Bridge only makes things worse. I mean, the traffic along the 15 isn't going away anytime soon, but it's accepted and I don't think anyone thinks SBS wouldn't be useful because of that. Also talking about the 15, we're not gonna see any service terminating below 125th St any time soon, as long as the route is out of 126th St Depot anyway.

 

The traffic on Lex is pretty bad but how exactly are things going to get any better if we maintain the status quo?

 

I kinda wish the DOT really would make an extra driving lane in Midtown during Rush Hour on the left-most lane of the street, and set up that lane for taxi-dropoffs [and I guess pick-ups too.] I especially like the idea of an offset bus lane here, because as you mentioned many buses run on Lexington so stationary buses at stops would be an obstacle.

 

On the topic of bus lanes, the M101 only has bus lanes in the heart of Midtown, whereas the M15 has them from 125th all the way down to Houston [save the SAS construction zones] so they're not quite the same.

 

As for the subway vs. the bus, I think that's not the best argument because it leads to a slippery slope. Why is there Limited service on the 101 when the subway is underneath? You could use the same 'speed' argument against that.

 

I also think the L-shaped part of the route is important too and it would really benefit from a faster option but I won't re-tread that ground.

 

As for 5th and Madison it is pretty busy but I can't really figure out how the logistics of it would work. Right now the routes only use 40' foot buses and they can't really be converted to artics without increasing their headaways. I mean, outside Rush Hour only one of the four routes could really reasonably become SBS and how would that route run above 110th St?

 

Thank you! ^

[Gorgor]

Bus lane aside, wasn't the M15 Limited pretty similar? I mean, before SBS started on the M15 the local and the Limited had pretty even ridership. [Here's my sauce, page 16] Now the SBS ridership far exceeds the local, and it's clear why. I'd argue it's the same for the M101. Not too many people wait specifically for the M101, like you say. I notice the 102 and 103 have pretty solid loads, and part of that is likely because the 101 is perceived as not saving much time, and people can just take whatever comes first. With the 15. it's still do-able, just not as conventional.

 

Put SBS on the 101 and I can almost guarantee that will change. Maybe there'll even be some riders emigrating from the M15. I imagine some 101/102/103 riders flocked to the 15 when SBS started.

 

SBS can only save but so much time, but the perception of saving time would be very attractive, and we'll see M15-style loads waiting for the 101, instead of the 102 or 103. Let's say there's an offset bus lane from 96th St down to 60th St added, with bus bulbs. On a good day, an average trip from 86th St down to 34th St would only save 4 minutes over the Limited. Honestly, I think that's pretty reasonable. It's not subway-tier, but it doesn't have to be.

 

On weekdays, the 101/102/103 combined would probably have around 35-40K riders a day (I'm only guesstimating, since we have no idea how many riders are on the upper portions of the 101 and 102. All I know is, the 101 gets around 7, 800 riders on 125th St, and the M100 get around 6,800.) But 35-40K isn't bad, that's 7th or 8th in the city. It just looks small compared to the busier line next to it (and I guess lines on the other side of it) and the subway below it. And I don't know how the 98 figures in, since it lost a lot of ridership after 2010, around 1300-1500 daily).

 

I'm not against improving the 15 but with the 101 and 103 at 125/Lex the 15 would only serve to take riders from them. As for bus bunching, is it a problem, but it's pretty par for the course with something so frequent with the 15 SBS, and things like SAS construction and traffic getting onto the Queensboro Bridge only makes things worse. I mean, the traffic along the 15 isn't going away anytime soon, but it's accepted and I don't think anyone thinks SBS wouldn't be useful because of that. Also talking about the 15, we're not gonna see any service terminating below 125th St any time soon, as long as the route is out of 126th St Depot anyway.

 

The traffic on Lex is pretty bad but how exactly are things going to get any better if we maintain the status quo?

 

I kinda wish the DOT really would make an extra driving lane in Midtown during Rush Hour on the left-most lane of the street, and set up that lane for taxi-dropoffs [and I guess pick-ups too.] I especially like the idea of an offset bus lane here, because as you mentioned many buses run on Lexington so stationary buses at stops would be an obstacle.

 

On the topic of bus lanes, the M101 only has bus lanes in the heart of Midtown, whereas the M15 has them from 125th all the way down to Houston [save the SAS construction zones] so they're not quite the same.

 

As for the subway vs. the bus, I think that's not the best argument because it leads to a slippery slope. Why is there Limited service on the 101 when the subway is underneath? You could use the same 'speed' argument against that.

 

I also think the L-shaped part of the route is important too and it would really benefit from a faster option but I won't re-tread that ground.

 

As for 5th and Madison it is pretty busy but I can't really figure out how the logistics of it would work. Right now the routes only use 40' foot buses and they can't really be converted to artics without increasing their headaways. I mean, outside Rush Hour only one of the four routes could really reasonably become SBS and how would that route run above 110th St?

 

 

You're right; even though it's not that much time saved it seems like a lot for people. Before SBS came to the M15, I would've never even considered taking the limited between Midtown and the Upper East Side.

 

Lexington Avenue is narrow. Currently there are only three travel lanes, one of which always has double parked cars and trucks making deliveries, so there's really only two usable lanes. Putting in an offset bus lane would cause the number of usable lanes to go down to one, which means double the amount of traffic than before, which will certainly cause much more chaos and gridlock, which affects all other bus routes.

 

You certainly raise valid points for why there should be M101 SBS, but this won't take any riders off the ; it will just move M102/M103 riders onto the M101 SBS.

[qjtransitmaster]

 

 

 

 

Bus lane aside, wasn't the M15 Limited pretty similar? I mean, before SBS started on the M15 the local and the Limited had pretty even ridership. [Here's my sauce, page 16] Now the SBS ridership far exceeds the local, and it's clear why. I'd argue it's the same for the M101. Not too many people wait specifically for the M101, like you say. I notice the 102 and 103 have pretty solid loads, and part of that is likely because the 101 is perceived as not saving much time, and people can just take whatever comes first. With the 15. it's still do-able, just not as conventional.

 

Put SBS on the 101 and I can almost guarantee that will change. Maybe there'll even be some riders emigrating from the M15. I imagine some 101/102/103 riders flocked to the 15 when SBS started.

 

SBS can only save but so much time, but the perception of saving time would be very attractive, and we'll see M15-style loads waiting for the 101, instead of the 102 or 103. Let's say there's an offset bus lane from 96th St down to 60th St added, with bus bulbs. On a good day, an average trip from 86th St down to 34th St would only save 4 minutes over the Limited. Honestly, I think that's pretty reasonable. It's not subway-tier, but it doesn't have to be.

 

On weekdays, the 101/102/103 combined would probably have around 35-40K riders a day (I'm only guesstimating, since we have no idea how many riders are on the upper portions of the 101 and 102. All I know is, the 101 gets around 7, 800 riders on 125th St, and the M100 get around 6,800.) But 35-40K isn't bad, that's 7th or 8th in the city. It just looks small compared to the busier line next to it (and I guess lines on the other side of it) and the subway below it. And I don't know how the 98 figures in, since it lost a lot of ridership after 2010, around 1300-1500 daily).

 

I'm not against improving the 15 but with the 101 and 103 at 125/Lex the 15 would only serve to take riders from them. As for bus bunching, is it a problem, but it's pretty par for the course with something so frequent with the 15 SBS, and things like SAS construction and traffic getting onto the Queensboro Bridge only makes things worse. I mean, the traffic along the 15 isn't going away anytime soon, but it's accepted and I don't think anyone thinks SBS wouldn't be useful because of that. Also talking about the 15, we're not gonna see any service terminating below 125th St any time soon, as long as the route is out of 126th St Depot anyway.

 

The traffic on Lex is pretty bad but how exactly are things going to get any better if we maintain the status quo?

 

I kinda wish the DOT really would make an extra driving lane in Midtown during Rush Hour on the left-most lane of the street, and set up that lane for taxi-dropoffs [and I guess pick-ups too.] I especially like the idea of an offset bus lane here, because as you mentioned many buses run on Lexington so stationary buses at stops would be an obstacle.

 

On the topic of bus lanes, the M101 only has bus lanes in the heart of Midtown, whereas the M15 has them from 125th all the way down to Houston [save the SAS construction zones] so they're not quite the same.

 

As for the subway vs. the bus, I think that's not the best argument because it leads to a slippery slope. Why is there Limited service on the 101 when the subway is underneath? You could use the same 'speed' argument against that.

 

I also think the L-shaped part of the route is important too and it would really benefit from a faster option but I won't re-tread that ground.

 

As for 5th and Madison it is pretty busy but I can't really figure out how the logistics of it would work. Right now the routes only use 40' foot buses and they can't really be converted to artics without increasing their headaways. I mean, outside Rush Hour only one of the four routes could really reasonably become SBS and how would that route run above 110th St?

 

You just revealed why SBS lexington is a waste of money plus not all SBS lines need artics.

 

Gorgor has a point though.

[checkmatechamp13]

You got the tl, dr version?

 

Anyway....

 

Put SBS on the 101 and I can almost guarantee that will change. Maybe there'll even be some riders emigrating from the M15. I imagine some 101/102/103 riders flocked to the 15 when SBS started.

 

 

I'd imagine that as well. Ridership on those lines has continued to decrease, while ridership on the M15 has increased.

 

On weekdays, the 101/102/103 combined would probably have around 35-40K riders a day (I'm only guesstimating, since we have no idea how many riders are on the upper portions of the 101 and 102. All I know is, the 101 gets around 7,800 riders on 125th St, and the M100 get around 6,800.) But 35-40K isn't bad, that's 7th or 8th in the city. It just looks small compared to the busier line next to it (and I guess lines on the other side of it) and the subway below it. And I don't know how the 98 figures in, since it lost a lot of ridership after 2010, around 1300-1500 daily).

 

 

BTW, not doubting you, but do you have a source for the 125th Street numbers? (Is it from one of those presentations about improving the M60 on 125th Street?)

 

As for 5th and Madison it is pretty busy but I can't really figure out how the logistics of it would work. Right now the routes only use 40' foot buses and they can't really be converted to artics without increasing their headaways. I mean, outside Rush Hour only one of the four routes could really reasonably become SBS and how would that route run above 110th St?

 

 

I never thought of articulated buses as a requirement for SBS service. I mean, yeah maybe it helps when you need to inspect tickets on a crowded bus, but I don't think it's really that big a deal (Plus, you could always add artics later).

 

I think the M2 would be the best candidate for SBS, since it's already a full-time limited route.

 

I'm just throwing it out there, but maybe they could just run it as an SBS-only route, with no corresponding local along Clayton Powell Blvd. I mean, the M10 & M7/M102 are roughly 0.15 mile in either direction for those who want local service in that area. It's no worse than a lot of areas in the outer boroughs, and for that matter, it's no worse than the distance between a lot of crosstown routes (most of them are 0.5 miles apart, which means you could end up having to walk 0.25 miles to access them). Then you could just install stops where buses only stop during late nights. For the northernmost part of the route, maybe the M1 could cover the local stops north of 145th Street. (Just a slight reroute away from 146th/147th Street)

 

The other thing you could do is reroute the M102 from Lenox to Clayton Powell, though that might not work out too well, since it would have to function as a local for both the M2 & M101, which could be problematic in terms of delays.

 

While you're at it, you might as well make the M1 limited into an SBS route. Even though it only runs during rush hours, I don't think it would cost a whole lot to just install a few more machines along the route north of 110th Street.

 

As I said before, I agree with those that say that SBS on the buses can help a little (and should be done), but ultimately, the only thing that will take any significant loads of the Lexington Avenue Line will be SAS.

[Turbo19]

You got the tl, dr version?

 

Anyway....

 

 

 

I'd imagine that as well. Ridership on those lines has continued to decrease, while ridership on the M15 has increased.

 

 

 

BTW, not doubting you, but do you have a source for the 125th Street numbers? (Is it from one of those presentations about improving the M60 on 125th Street?)

 

 

 

I never thought of articulated buses as a requirement for SBS service. I mean, yeah maybe it helps when you need to inspect tickets on a crowded bus, but I don't think it's really that big a deal (Plus, you could always add artics later).

 

I think the M2 would be the best candidate for SBS, since it's already a full-time limited route.

 

I'm just throwing it out there, but maybe they could just run it as an SBS-only route, with no corresponding local along Clayton Powell Blvd. I mean, the M10 & M7/M102 are roughly 0.15 mile in either direction for those who want local service in that area. It's no worse than a lot of areas in the outer boroughs, and for that matter, it's no worse than the distance between a lot of crosstown routes (most of them are 0.5 miles apart, which means you could end up having to walk 0.25 miles to access them). Then you could just install stops where buses only stop during late nights. For the northernmost part of the route, maybe the M1 could cover the local stops north of 145th Street. (Just a slight reroute away from 146th/147th Street)

 

The other thing you could do is reroute the M102 from Lenox to Clayton Powell, though that might not work out too well, since it would have to function as a local for both the M2 & M101, which could be problematic in terms of delays.

 

While you're at it, you might as well make the M1 limited into an SBS route. Even though it only runs during rush hours, I don't think it would cost a whole lot to just install a few more machines along the route north of 110th Street.

 

As I said before, I agree with those that say that SBS on the buses can help a little (and should be done), but ultimately, the only thing that will take any significant loads of the Lexington Avenue Line will be SAS.

 

Would an 5th AV SBS variant and a limited M2 survive together, or would only one have to be operated.

[qjtransitmaster]

Would an 5th AV SBS variant and a limited M2 survive together, or would only one have to be operated.

 

Err huh why not M2 SBS? Just upgrade the LTD.

[checkmatechamp13]

Would an 5th AV SBS variant and a limited M2 survive together, or would only one have to be operated.

 

 

I don't think they could both survive. You'd probably have to operate one or the other.

[Far Rock Depot]

Why does it seem like the ONLY solution is lex/3rd when there's no obvious consensus? How about enhancing a bus service, connecting to the Lex that, instead of providing an "option", provide a "convenience" to a percentage of riders to get off the Lex and free up some space?

[qjtransitmaster]

Why does it seem like the ONLY solution is lex/3rd when there's no obvious consensus? How about enhancing a bus service, connecting to the Lex that, instead of providing an "option", provide a "convenience" to a percentage of riders to get off the Lex and free up some space?

 

genius more of these please.

[JAzumah]

The easy way to use buses to pull people off the Lex is not SBS. Instead, super express buses would be needed. You would have to run multiple patterns to make this work, but it is doable.

 

For example, these would be the minimum patterns needed:

96-86-57-50

96-86-42-34

79-57-50-42

 

Ideally, buses should be loading directly at 96 and 86 Street and going straight to 42 Street. Those buses would carry a ton.

[Gorgor]

The easy way to use buses to pull people off the Lex is not SBS. Instead, super express buses would be needed. You would have to run multiple patterns to make this work, but it is doable.

 

For example, these would be the minimum patterns needed:

96-86-57-50

96-86-42-34

79-57-50-42

 

Ideally, buses should be loading directly at 96 and 86 Street and going straight to 42 Street. Those buses would carry a ton.

 

 

Nope. Even if these buses run nonstop, the will still easily beat it during rush hour, and the will just simply decimate it. If anything, there should be additional super express buses on the M15 SBS.

 

If people have a choice between the subway and a bus at the exact same location, they'll definitely choose the subway without hesitation if they want to get somewhere fast. If you provide fast bus service to areas away from the subway, then you'll get the people who would've previously walked further to get the subway because the new service will be faster for them.

[qjtransitmaster]

The easy way to use buses to pull people off the Lex is not SBS. Instead, super express buses would be needed. You would have to run multiple patterns to make this work, but it is doable.

 

For example, these would be the minimum patterns needed:

96-86-57-50

96-86-42-34

79-57-50-42

 

Ideally, buses should be loading directly at 96 and 86 Street and going straight to 42 Street. Those buses would carry a ton.

 

please just get real dude people are not that stupid to think a bus will beat the LEX what point of you will never get people off of any subway line onto a bus do you not understand?

 

Nope. Even if these buses run nonstop, the will still easily beat it during rush hour, and the will just simply decimate it. If anything, there should be additional super express buses on the M15 SBS.

 

If people have a choice between the subway and a bus at the exact same location, they'll definitely choose the subway without hesitation if they want to get somewhere fast. If you provide fast bus service to areas away from the subway, then you'll get the people who would've previously walked further to get the subway because the new service will be faster for them.

 

You are one of the few posters in this thread that aren't delusional and completely out of it. You made the most sense here.

[Gorgor]

You are one of the few posters in this thread that aren't delusional and completely out of it. You made the most sense here.

 

 

Because I'm the only one who passes by Lexington Avenue every day to get the . The traffic conditions are terrible, and some of these ideas just don't add up. There's never many people waiting in general for the bus (M101, M102, M103 together), so off board payment won't speed much up and just cause more confusion. Bus lanes aren't enforced, so if anything just get more cops on the scene or install cameras in buses like they have on the M15.

 

I forget who said it, but yes, giving it SBS status would give riders a sense of time savings, but in reality it would be all of two minutes at most. It might attract riders from other bus routes, but it will not get anyone off of the .

[B35 via Church]

This thread has basically turned into a subway vs bus discussion.....

[Threxx]

This thread has basically turned into a subway vs bus discussion.....

 

 

As if it was ever anything but...

[Quill Depot]

What about SBS on a crosstown route to better "feed" the subway. There should be a new design of SBS using turnstiles with a direct connection to the subway! That'll really get people riding.

[qjtransitmaster]

What about SBS on a crosstown route to better "feed" the subway. There should be a new design of SBS using turnstiles with a direct connection to the subway! That'll really get people riding.

 

err huh? is it worth it? turnstiles that will only work for a full scale busway only corridors that can do that are NSR in SI and add a new busway for the BQE to LIE corridor. speeding up SI and queens express buses simultaneously skipping traffic jams.

Manhattan can use more SBS on crosstowns but with turnstiles to the subway not possible unless you want a full scale busway along the henry hudson parkway till GWB?

 

 

This thread has basically turned into a subway vs bus discussion.....

 

pointless isn't it bus will never beat subways side by side. Hence why B18 died. Notice how only a few brooklyn lines duplicate the subway on it's full route. You get the idea

[East New York]

This topic is spent.