MTA Capital Plan Falls Short On 2nd Ave Subway Expansion, But Will Connect The L & 3 In Brownsville

[Q113 LTD]

The pared down its five-year capital budget by 10 percent ahead of the city and state agreeing on funding it earlier this month, but has agreed to tack on a handful of projects in the weeks since. The 's board approved the plan and touted its savings today [pdf]. The scraps tacked on include a common-sense connection between the Livonia Avenue and Junius Street stations, a desolate block apart in Brownsville, and a $5 million study of the century-old common-sense idea of running a subway line down Utica Avenue . All told, the Mayor's Office is crowing about $300 million in city-requested projects that got added onto the $29 billion plan. Other new features include improvements to the following stations: Boadway Junction, Flushing Main Street, Vernon-Jackson Avenues, 86th Street Lexington Avenue, Sutphin/Archer/JFK, 149th/Grand Concourse, Jamaica Center Parsons-Archer, Marcy Avenue, Union Street, and Fordham Road.

 

Also: $80 million in studies of topics including transit-oriented development, and a potential bus facility in Flushing, Queens. In a statement, Mayor de Blasio called the assorted additions "a huge win for NYC riders across the five boroughs."

The missing Livonia-Junius connection, one of many vestiges of the days when the city's subways were operated by competing companies, forces Brooklyn commuters to swipe a second time to transfer—it'd be somewhat less noticeable if the and tracks didn't actually cross each other—and the desolate block separating the elevated stations has frustrated and frightened for years. The Livonia-Junius connector is projected to cost $30 million and be built in conjunction with $15 million worth of work to make the stations Americans with Disabilities Act compliant. Brooklyn Borough President Eric Adams, who had asked that the prioritize the link, also declared its inclusion a win. "Today represents victory for the long-struggling straphangers of Brownsville and East New York," he said in a statement. The need to run a subway line down Utica Avenue is also well-established, so much so that it was first proposed in 1910. The latest of many studies of the idea would look at the engineering requirements for such a subway line, and crucially given that the governor and mayor are still hazy on how they plan to pay for the repairs and improvements they just agreed on after a half-year of bickering, where the money will come from. (A Mayor's Office spokeswoman told us $1.9 billion of the city's $2.5 billion share will come out of higher-than-projected tax revenues and bonds, and the remainder would come from other sources including "value capture from joint City- real estate," but that she could not get more specific.)  The plan still includes a laundry list of overdue fixes, such as bringing the subway and commuter rail systems' signals into the 21st century, spiffing up stations, and replacing old subway cars. It also funds some long-term construction projects, including the Second Avenue subway line. The next phase of the Second Avenue project is supposed to extend the line from 96th Street to 125th, and an earlier iteration of the capital plan funded digging the tunnel but not building the stations, meaning the end of the decades-old project has never been in sight. However, under the trimmed-down plan, not even the tunnel-digging is funded. The earth-moving came to be ditched "over [the] last several months as we looked for efficiencies, and especially over [the] last few weeks as the final funding deal made clear what numbers we had to hit," spokesman Adam Lisberg told us. What's left in the lite version of the capital plan is money to do the digging necessary to prepare to tunnel, meaning preparing to move utility lines, and creating access points for work crews and a boring machine, Lisberg said. The squabble between Mayor de Blasio and Gov. Cuomo over how much the city would commit versus the state made for good political theater, but as Citizens Budget Commission head Carol Kellermann wrote in an op-ed earlier this year, "The choice between the City and the State is a false one," because what New York City residents pay makes up a disproportionate share of the state's tax revenue. Kellermann argues, and the brains behind the Move NY congestion-pricing plan agree, that "the real choice in funding mass transit" is between general taxpayers, transit riders' fares, and motorists. The Move NY proposal, which calls for adding tolls to the East River Bridges and lowering other bridge and tunnel tolls, would generate a projected $1.5 billion in annual revenue to put towards public transit. Gov. Cuomo called an earlier version of the capital budget "bloated," and his chairman described Move NY as "not politically feasible." Where he plans to find the $8.3 billion he pledged to fund the 's capital needs without raising taxes remains to be seen.

 

Source:http://gothamist.com/2015/10/28/subway_mta_second_ave.php

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Sorry guys, didn't know someone already post a similar thread like this a few minutes ago. This what happens when I take forever to add photos and make some adjustments before I press submit. lol Just delete this or lock this thread or merge it or something. (－‸ლ) Just go over to this one instead, posted by Union Tpke.

[TransitJusticeForAll]

There should be three connections

1.) Between Lorimer Street & Broadway Stations

2.) Between Livonia Av & Junis St <2>

3.) Between Lafayette Av , Fulton St , & Atlantic-Barclays

[S78 via Hylan]

3.) Between Lafayette Av , Fulton St , & Atlantic-Barclays

This is asking for too much considering that these transfers are available:

Hoyt-Schermerhorn

Jay St-Metrotech

4 Av-9 St

[MysteriousBtrain]

There should be three connections

1.) Between Lorimer Street & Broadway Stations

2.) Between Livonia Av & Junis St <2>

3.) Between Lafayette Av , Fulton St , & Atlantic-Barclays

All except the Barclays I agree on.

[trainfanrod]

Barclays is long it have to b walking transfer

[Wallyhorse]

There should be three connections

1.) Between Lorimer Street & Broadway Stations

2.) Between Livonia Av & Junis St

3.) Between Lafayette Av , Fulton St , & Atlantic-Barclays

Agree on Lorimer and Broadway with the .  It was previously suggested elsewhere Lorimer and another stop be consolidated into a single stop for this purpose.

 

Livonia & Junius is obvious and has been obvious for years.  I used to ride that way on the years ago and always wondered why they never built that connection.

 

I have suggested the Lafayette-Fulton-Barclays connections, but to do that, I think you'd have to somehow convert Lafayette Avenue from a local to an express stop so the and both stop there.  Also, as noted you now have the connection to the at Jay Street-Metrotech and of course the at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, so it's not as necessary as other connections even though it would make it easier for people coming to and leaving events at the Barclays Center.

[Fresh Pond]

There's absolutely no need to connect Lafayette Av & Fulton St as the very next stop is a transfer point for them.

[Art Vandelay]

I think his idea is to connect both to the Atlantic Ave complex. The point of the connection wouldn't be to connect either to the other, but to connect both to the Fulton Street complex. 

[Around the Horn]

Agree on Lorimer and Broadway with the .  It was previously suggested elsewhere Lorimer and another stop be consolidated into a single stop for this purpose.

 

Livonia & Junius is obvious and has been obvious for years.  I used to ride that way on the years ago and always wondered why they never built that connection.

 

I have suggested the Lafayette-Fulton-Barclays connections, but to do that, I think you'd have to somehow convert Lafayette Avenue from a local to an express stop so the and both stop there.  Also, as noted you now have the connection to the at Jay Street-Metrotech and of course the at Hoyt-Schermerhorn, so it's not as necessary as other connections even though it would make it easier for people coming to and leaving events at the Barclays Center.

They suggested consolidating Lorimer and Hewes      into a Union Avenue station and connecting with Broadway    which is virtually impossible without using eminent domain on the corner of Broadway and Union Avenue

[Union Tpke]

They suggested consolidating Lorimer and Hewes      into a Union Avenue station and connecting with Broadway    which is virtually impossible without using eminent domain on the corner of Broadway and Union Avenue

then use it!

[Fresh Pond]

then use it!

Good luck with that

[R10 2952]

Kind of pathetic that they're gutting funding for Phase 2.  If anything, Second Avenue Subway should be at the top of their priorities list, as opposed to some trivial BS... 

[BrooklynBus]

That Gotamist article is incorrect. The Utica Avenue extension could not have been proposed in 1910 because the Utica Avenue station did not open until 1920 and I doubt it took ten years to build.

[Wallyhorse]

Kind of pathetic that they're gutting funding for Phase 2.  If anything, Second Avenue Subway should be at the top of their priorities list, as opposed to some trivial BS... 

Actually, from what I'm reading, by the time bidding and so forth for Phase 2 takes place, much of that would be in the next capital budget anyway, so that may explain some of this.

[bobtehpanda]

That Gotamist article is incorrect. The Utica Avenue extension could not have been proposed in 1910 because the Utica Avenue station did not open until 1920 and I doubt it took ten years to build.

 

A lot of stuff got proposed in the 1900s and 1910s, but never came to fruition due to politicking by the IRT and BMT; it was in their best interests to stuff existing facilities as much as possible and not invest in new stuff, so often times they just refused to do so. That's the entire reason the BMT got brought along; the IRT didn't want to build anything other than the original subway, so the city brought them in and said "Either you can build it, or this competitor can build it on your turf."

 

Connecting the with Atlantic is way more important because that would make the actually useful as a Crosstown Line. Connecting the would be kinda useful for people from East New York and points east trying to get to the south Brooklyn lines.

[Fresh Pond]

A lot of stuff got proposed in the 1900s and 1910s, but never came to fruition due to politicking by the IRT and BMT; it was in their best interests to stuff existing facilities as much as possible and not invest in new stuff, so often times they just refused to do so. That's the entire reason the BMT got brought along; the IRT didn't want to build anything other than the original subway, so the city brought them in and said "Either you can build it, or this competitor can build it on your turf."

 

Connecting the with Atlantic is way more important because that would make the actually useful as a Crosstown Line. Connecting the would be kinda useful for people from East New York and points east trying to get to the south Brooklyn lines.

But the Franklin does just that, and you don't have to go all the way downtown for it

[AndrewJC]

That Gotamist article is incorrect. The Utica Avenue extension could not have been proposed in 1910 because the Utica Avenue station did not open until 1920 and I doubt it took ten years to build.

 

http://bklyn.newspapers.com/image/58334659/

[bobtehpanda]

But the Franklin does just that, and you don't have to go all the way downtown for it

 

It doesn't easily get you to the West End Line or the Sea Beach Line, and transferring at Metrotech would require an additional transfer as well. Better to just cut one train out of the equation completely.

[Wallyhorse]

Connecting the with Atlantic is way more important because that would make the actually useful as a Crosstown Line. Connecting the would be kinda useful for people from East New York and points east trying to get to the south Brooklyn lines.

That would make sense.  Yes, it would be a bit of a walk (and there probably would be clamoring to also have a connection from the at Lafayette Avenue), but it would make sense if you can do it where the connects to the other IRT and BMT/IND lines at Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center.

[Fresh Pond]

It doesn't easily get you to the West End Line or the Sea Beach Line, and transferring at Metrotech would require an additional transfer as well. Better to just cut one train out of the equation completely.

 

That would make sense. Yes, it would be a bit of a walk (and there probably would be clamoring to also have a connection from the at Lafayette Avenue), but it would make sense if you can do it where the connects to the other IRT and BMT/IND lines at Atlantic Avenue-Barclays Center.

That transfer walk would be AT LEAST triple the length of the Times Sq transfer, building one there would be damn near impractical, and a waste of money, especially when other options exist already

[Art Vandelay]

Actually, the shortest possible connection without tunneling under private buildings, from the G at Fulton/Lafayette to the B/Q at Atlantic terminal is about 850 feet. The NB NQR to the NB ACE at Times Square is about 1600 feet. Potentially 2000 if you need to be at the north end of the ACE and south end of NQR. 

[R10 2952]

I'll tell you one thing they won't be building anytime soon- the 10th Avenue Station on the .  Shame...

[Union Tpke]

I'll tell you one thing they won't be building anytime soon- the 10th Avenue Station on the .  Shame...

It would be really useful as the PABT would be rebuilt right next to it.

[Grand Concourse]

For a $10 billion bus terminal, you would think they are going to build two 1wtc towers on that spot. Just ridiculous about the port authority and the waste. Smh.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

For a $10 billion bus terminal, you would think they are going to build two 1wtc towers on that spot. Just ridiculous about the port authority and the waste. Smh.

Well unfortunately this is what happens when you wait too long to replace something that should've been replaced years ago...