TransitJusticeForAll Posted November 5, 2015 Share #1 Posted November 5, 2015 http://www.nyc.gov/html/brt/html/routes/south-brooklyn.shtml Please feel free to discuss, all. ???????? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fanrailerz Posted November 5, 2015 Share #2 Posted November 5, 2015 Does the MTA really keep thinking that select bus service is the solution to everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuyorican Posted November 5, 2015 Share #3 Posted November 5, 2015 What kills the B82 is the double parking on Kingshighway between Ocean Parkway & Coney Island Ave Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 5, 2015 Share #4 Posted November 5, 2015 I was hoping it was going to be the B1, but I can understand why it's the B82. Bus is slow as hell. I used to use it here and there when I lived in Midwood for shopping along Kings Highway, and even for short distances it wasn't that reliable or quick. Usually just walked unless I had bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetSMART45 Posted November 5, 2015 Share #5 Posted November 5, 2015 Does the MTA really keep thinking that select bus service is the solution to everything? Sure is! Didn't delve into that 2009 "study" right now, but that tells you something immense: They studied things, had findings, but did nothing in successive years to get some, even interim, changes to see what would happen. Now that they can get the Feds to foot a majority of the bills, NYCDOT and MTA can wave their magic wand and get people off their backs. All of this is starting to smell more of DOT's attempts to hide their shortcomings, and less of MTA's. Road funding nationwide isn't where it really needs to be, and these projects rely on most investment being on the DOT-side anyways, so they can get an injection of money under the guise of improving/relieving congestion and air quality through CMAQ, as well as other Federal grants. MTA similarly can apply for those type of funds. MAP-21 has changed a lot of things recently, and some are more competitively awarded, but hey -- it's NYC, and there's gotta be some bit of "priority" sent to the nation's largest city. MTA does share some of the blame, nonetheless. They also have had close to 7 years to make their own changes, but when it's easier to let things deteriorate so that at a future date you can look like such a good guy -- and get it paid for to boot -- so much the better. As BrooklynBus has mentioned so many times, the MTA still doesn't really "come clean" regarding how the current SBS services stack-up to their own claims of efficiency, and almost purposely muddies the waters with their "interpretations" of the figures that are released. But this, "Trust us! It'll be soooo much better! We're the experts and you don't know as much as we do, so shut up" mentality won't just be accepted when there's a bunch of SBS routes that don't perform up to the claims made by the real judges: the customers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted November 5, 2015 Share #6 Posted November 5, 2015 I believe there was a separate thread for this. MTA projects tend to win on any sort of cost-effectiveness basis, since due to having such high mode share and ridership, ok MTA projects are bound to outcompete great projects in other cities. The federal funding formulas actually disadvantage the region for this very reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 5, 2015 Share #7 Posted November 5, 2015 Sure is! Didn't delve into that 2009 "study" right now, but that tells you something immense: They studied things, had findings, but did nothing in successive years to get some, even interim, changes to see what would happen. Now that they can get the Feds to foot a majority of the bills, NYCDOT and MTA can wave their magic wand and get people off their backs. All of this is starting to smell more of DOT's attempts to hide their shortcomings, and less of MTA's. Road funding nationwide isn't where it really needs to be, and these projects rely on most investment being on the DOT-side anyways, so they can get an injection of money under the guise of improving/relieving congestion and air quality through CMAQ, as well as other Federal grants. MTA similarly can apply for those type of funds. MAP-21 has changed a lot of things recently, and some are more competitively awarded, but hey -- it's NYC, and there's gotta be some bit of "priority" sent to the nation's largest city. MTA does share some of the blame, nonetheless. They also have had close to 7 years to make their own changes, but when it's easier to let things deteriorate so that at a future date you can look like such a good guy -- and get it paid for to boot -- so much the better. As BrooklynBus has mentioned so many times, the MTA still doesn't really "come clean" regarding how the current SBS services stack-up to their own claims of efficiency, and almost purposely muddies the waters with their "interpretations" of the figures that are released. But this, "Trust us! It'll be soooo much better! We're the experts and you don't know as much as we do, so shut up" mentality won't just be accepted when there's a bunch of SBS routes that don't perform up to the claims made by the real judges: the customers. That is exactly why I don't trust them with this B82 SBS nonsense.The route doesn't need it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion VII 4 Life Posted November 7, 2015 Share #8 Posted November 7, 2015 Theyre coming up with so much SBS now I wanna know how they're gonna keep enforcing the fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransitJusticeForAll Posted November 7, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted November 7, 2015 Theyre coming up with so much SBS now I wanna know how they're gonna keep enforcing the fare. They should. I mean, if they going to keep coming up with more +SBS routes they should be fare inspectors along the route. Last week, while I was on the M60 in Harlem, fare inspectors popped out of nowhere on 2nd Av, inspecting tickets, so they will enforce the fare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aemoreira81 Posted November 8, 2015 Share #10 Posted November 8, 2015 What kills the B82 is the double parking on Kingshighway between Ocean Parkway & Coney Island Ave In Midwood, I would make these traffic changes: 1. Kings Highway would become a one-way street eastbound from McDonald Avenue to East 13 Street, and again from East 16 Street to its merger with Avenue P. Quentin Road would become a one-way westbound street between East 13 Street and McDonald Avenue, with speed humps placed along the street to prevent speeding. 2. Traffic eastbound on Avenue P between Coney Island Avenue and Ocean Avenue would be reduced to one lane. 3. A dedicated left-turn lane would be established at East 16 Street and again at Coney Island Avenue to permit easier left turns without backing up traffic in other lanes. 4, Approximately 10-12 parking spaces would be eliminated on the west side of East 16 Street before Kings Highway (to establish a right-turn lane). These spots would be replaced elsewhere on Kings Highway where it is turned into a one-way street. The portion between East 13 and East 16 Streets could still be problematic, but that is because there is no way to make Kings Highway one-way there without missing the subway. The other major B82 SBS complication will be Spring Creek Towers, where every stop is busy and where the last stop would need a significant lengthening to accommodate articulated buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TransitJusticeForAll Posted November 10, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted November 10, 2015 In Midwood, I would make these traffic changes: 1. Kings Highway would become a one-way street eastbound from McDonald Avenue to East 13 Street, and again from East 16 Street to its merger with Avenue P. Quentin Road would become a one-way westbound street between East 13 Street and McDonald Avenue, with speed humps placed along the street to prevent speeding. 2. Traffic eastbound on Avenue P between Coney Island Avenue and Ocean Avenue would be reduced to one lane. 3. A dedicated left-turn lane would be established at East 16 Street and again at Coney Island Avenue to permit easier left turns without backing up traffic in other lanes. 4, Approximately 10-12 parking spaces would be eliminated on the west side of East 16 Street before Kings Highway (to establish a right-turn lane). These spots would be replaced elsewhere on Kings Highway where it is turned into a one-way street. The portion between East 13 and East 16 Streets could still be problematic, but that is because there is no way to make Kings Highway one-way there without missing the subway. The other major B82 SBS complication will be Spring Creek Towers, where every stop is busy and where the last stop would need a significant lengthening to accommodate articulated buses. The MTA is thinking to extend the route to Gateway Mall along with SBS B82. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Culver Posted November 10, 2015 Share #12 Posted November 10, 2015 What kills the B82 is the double parking on Kingshighway between Ocean Parkway & Coney Island Ave Really between McDonald and Ocean Avenue it's a mess of double parking and traffic. In Midwood, I would make these traffic changes: Quentin Road would become a one-way westbound street between East 13 Street and McDonald Avenue, with speed humps placed along the street to prevent speeding. 4, Approximately 10-12 parking spaces would be eliminated on the west side of East 16 Street before Kings Highway (to establish a right-turn lane). These spots would be replaced elsewhere on Kings Highway where it is turned into a one-way street. The folks living in the mansions on Quentin and the general Midwood area would burn alive any MTA or DOT official who dares even think such a thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 10, 2015 Share #13 Posted November 10, 2015 The MTA is thinking to extend the route to Gateway Mall along with SBS B82. What the hell are they thinking? The folks living in the mansions on Quentin and the general Midwood area would burn alive any MTA or DOT official who dares even think such a thing. LMAOOOOO! That's so true its not even funny... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrooklynBus Posted November 11, 2015 Share #14 Posted November 11, 2015 Sure is! Didn't delve into that 2009 "study" right now, but that tells you something immense: They studied things, had findings, but did nothing in successive years to get some, even interim, changes to see what would happen. Now that they can get the Feds to foot a majority of the bills, NYCDOT and MTA can wave their magic wand and get people off their backs. All of this is starting to smell more of DOT's attempts to hide their shortcomings, and less of MTA's. Road funding nationwide isn't where it really needs to be, and these projects rely on most investment being on the DOT-side anyways, so they can get an injection of money under the guise of improving/relieving congestion and air quality through CMAQ, as well as other Federal grants. MTA similarly can apply for those type of funds. MAP-21 has changed a lot of things recently, and some are more competitively awarded, but hey -- it's NYC, and there's gotta be some bit of "priority" sent to the nation's largest city. MTA does share some of the blame, nonetheless. They also have had close to 7 years to make their own changes, but when it's easier to let things deteriorate so that at a future date you can look like such a good guy -- and get it paid for to boot -- so much the better. As BrooklynBus has mentioned so many times, the MTA still doesn't really "come clean" regarding how the current SBS services stack-up to their own claims of efficiency, and almost purposely muddies the waters with their "interpretations" of the figures that are released. But this, "Trust us! It'll be soooo much better! We're the experts and you don't know as much as we do, so shut up" mentality won't just be accepted when there's a bunch of SBS routes that don't perform up to the claims made by the real judges: the customers. What is especially interesting is that riders were asking for the B82 to become a Limited for about three years before the MTA agreed. They kept stating the patronage and headways were not there to justify Limited service. Now because they can get federal money, all of a sudden the B82 is chosen for SBS. Has ridership risen that dramatically to warrant that? I need to see the details before I form an opinion. Originally they were considering using Avenue P as an alternate to Kings Highway where it is two lanes which I used to think made sense. That was back in 2003 when they were talking about using the parking lanes for bus lanes which would have made sense if they would have turned the municipal parking lot near the Brighton Station into a garage to replace the lost parking. But they developed the lot instead replacing it with very expensive privately operated parking for like $4 an hour. The result is that other than Sundays it now takes about 30 minutes to find a parking space in the area and traffic on Avenue P between 4 and 7 PM stands still and is slow on other avenues as well. It can take 15 to 30 minutes just to get 15 blocks from Ocean Avenue to Ocean Parkway at that time. Removing lanes on Avenue P for buses would make it impossible to get across Brooklyn on any avenue that goes through the Brighton Line. Having SBS on Kings Highway on the narrow portion also makes no sense. East west Bus improvements are definitely needed for faster service including service to JFK which I believe would best be accomplished using the Belt Parkway. But judging how once the MTA makes up its mind and because of Operations Plannng's arrogance in listening to outside ideas, I am not optimistic, the final design chosen, whatever that may be will work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted November 12, 2015 Share #15 Posted November 12, 2015 SBS in the southern part of this borough, so what... A typical ride on the bus in this city nowadays has slowed anyway - IDC what service type it is, be it local, LTD, SBS, or express.... SBS on the B82 won't be anymore revolutionary or swift than the other 8-9 lines that it is ran on..... On top of that, using SBS to extend the route to Gateway speaks for itself - Kinda like a pediatrician giving a kid a lollipop after having a shot administered to him/her - only to have the dentist weeks to months later after the check-up inform the parent about the ingestion of sweets & what could occur to the kid's teeth as a result.... It's worse when the dentist gives you the candy after a session w/ the dentist! (which I've experienced as a kid... it was the candy with the retarded looking bunny on it)... But yeah, part of what bothers me is that I predicted this crap years ago of the transformation of the city's bus system, and slowly but surely it is actually happening... Worse than that, it wasn't that hard a prediction to make!!! (like the Mets losing the world series about a week or so ago.. I mean really, did anyone really believe the suits would let the Mets beat the up & coming Royals (from last year).... The fixation of american sports [at least] is another rant for another time, but anyway).... So much so that I don't care much to engage in routefanning anymore here... So much so that I hardly even wanna come on here to talk bus routes anymore.... It's a large reason I haven't been posting much; SBS this & that..... So many are having wool thrown over their eyes, having the MTA spoofing them into believing SBS will/is getting riders to their destinations SO much faster, when again, all I see is slow moving traffic all over this freakin city.... With taxi cab companies "battling" (meaning, in heavier competition) for fares, it's not going to get any better.... Buses are slower, trains are more packed (yes, even off peak trains), what's happening is that more & more people by the day have gotten, and are fed up with mass transit in this city.... This means more vehicles on the road, personal and/or taxi's..... Let's not forget the double decker & other tour buses, because you know, NYC as a city is heavily... I repeat, HEAVILY reliant on the tourist dollar..... Just got off the f***in BM2 that took 75 minutes to get from Rockefeller ctr (well, 48th/5th) to Kensington at 9 o'clock at damn night..... And as of this year alone, that is most certainly not an isolated occurrence..... Tonight though, the amount of full & DH-ing double decker buses I saw along (and were stuck behind, along with other traffic) the way... SMFH.... Oh, and p.s... Wondered if that M103 ever showed up at 23rd/Lex... Been a cool 3 days & some hours (sunday afternoon)... Had wanted to get to Bayard st (Chinatown).... Oh well, Off to glance at some other posts before I log off for the night.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted November 12, 2015 Share #16 Posted November 12, 2015 SBS in the southern part of this borough, so what... A typical ride on the bus in this city nowadays has slowed anyway - IDC what service type it is, be it local, LTD, SBS, or express.... SBS on the B82 won't be anymore revolutionary or swift than the other 8-9 lines that it is ran on..... On top of that, using SBS to extend the route to Gateway speaks for itself - Kinda like a pediatrician giving a kid a lollipop after having a shot administered to him/her - only to have the dentist weeks to months later after the check-up inform the parent about the ingestion of sweets & what could occur to the kid's teeth as a result.... It's worse when the dentist gives you the candy after a session w/ the dentist! (which I've experienced as a kid... it was the candy with the retarded looking bunny on it)... But yeah, part of what bothers me is that I predicted this crap years ago of the transformation of the city's bus system, and slowly but surely it is actually happening... Worse than that, it wasn't that hard a prediction to make!!! (like the Mets losing the world series about a week or so ago.. I mean really, did anyone really believe the suits would let the Mets beat the up & coming Royals (from last year).... The fixation of american sports [at least] is another rant for another time, but anyway).... So much so that I don't care much to engage in routefanning anymore here... So much so that I hardly even wanna come on here to talk bus routes anymore.... It's a large reason I haven't been posting much; SBS this & that..... So many are having wool thrown over their eyes, having the MTA spoofing them into believing SBS will/is getting riders to their destinations SO much faster, when again, all I see is slow moving traffic all over this freakin city.... With taxi cab companies "battling" (meaning, in heavier competition) for fares, it's not going to get any better.... Buses are slower, trains are more packed (yes, even off peak trains), what's happening is that more & more people by the day have gotten, and are fed up with mass transit in this city.... This means more vehicles on the road, personal and/or taxi's..... Let's not forget the double decker & other tour buses, because you know, NYC as a city is heavily... I repeat, HEAVILY reliant on the tourist dollar..... Just got off the f***in BM2 that took 75 minutes to get from Rockefeller ctr (well, 48th/5th) to Kensington at 9 o'clock at damn night..... And as of this year alone, that is most certainly not an isolated occurrence..... Tonight though, the amount of full & DH-ing double decker buses I saw along (and were stuck behind, along with other traffic) the way... SMFH.... Oh, and p.s... Wondered if that M103 ever showed up at 23rd/Lex... Been a cool 3 days & some hours (sunday afternoon)... Had wanted to get to Bayard st (Chinatown).... Oh well, Off to glance at some other posts before I log off for the night.... It's sad to say it but I don't see what else the can do to deal with the traffic crisis aside from making more routes SBS. We really need congestion pricing in this city, but who knows when that will happen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted November 12, 2015 Share #17 Posted November 12, 2015 SBS in the southern part of this borough, so what... A typical ride on the bus in this city nowadays has slowed anyway - IDC what service type it is, be it local, LTD, SBS, or express.... SBS on the B82 won't be anymore revolutionary or swift than the other 8-9 lines that it is ran on..... On top of that, using SBS to extend the route to Gateway speaks for itself - Kinda like a pediatrician giving a kid a lollipop after having a shot administered to him/her - only to have the dentist weeks to months later after the check-up inform the parent about the ingestion of sweets & what could occur to the kid's teeth as a result.... It's worse when the dentist gives you the candy after a session w/ the dentist! (which I've experienced as a kid... it was the candy with the retarded looking bunny on it)... But yeah, part of what bothers me is that I predicted this crap years ago of the transformation of the city's bus system, and slowly but surely it is actually happening... Worse than that, it wasn't that hard a prediction to make!!! (like the Mets losing the world series about a week or so ago.. I mean really, did anyone really believe the suits would let the Mets beat the up & coming Royals (from last year).... The fixation of american sports [at least] is another rant for another time, but anyway).... 1. 100% agree.This won't help the B82 at all,if anything it will be worse... 2.Don't even get me started with the media's BS coverage of the WS...(They were all sucking the Royals' you-know-whats ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UTC Bus Roster Posted November 13, 2015 Share #18 Posted November 13, 2015 Where would they be getting the additional artics from? They'd have to wrap 40 footers until they decide to buy more artics. The current artic order is slated for MTA Bus only. Maybe they'll wrap the new Excelsiors?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fresh Pond Posted November 13, 2015 Share #19 Posted November 13, 2015 Where would they be getting the additional artics from? They'd have to wrap 40 footers until they decide to buy more artics. The current artic order is slated for MTA Bus only. Maybe they'll wrap the new Excelsiors?? There's 2 orders of artics. -The MTA bus order of 70-ish (or somewhere in that ballpark) XD60s (1 running...barely lol) -NYCT order of 230 artics (with an option to bump it up to 301) which hasn't been awarded yet which will replace the D60s plus extras for fleet expansion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R3216068E Posted November 13, 2015 Share #20 Posted November 13, 2015 They are thinking about extending the B82 SBS to gatewaymall? That's a good Idea now I have an easier way to get to Flatlands ave/Flatbush ave when I'm at gateway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetSMART45 Posted November 14, 2015 Share #21 Posted November 14, 2015 Still don't get the whole idea of wrapping SBS buses. This "idea" has been around ... what, at least three to four YEARS, and if you've got your head up your behind too busy checking how many "Likes" you've got on FedBook for your latest breakfast order instead of knowing how to get around the city with SBS being out there on so many routes, too farking bad. You guys have the most transit-centric place in the US, and if any real New Yorker who travels by bus doesn't know about SBS by now, they should just get it overwith and take a dirt nap. Just MAYBE instead of spending money on this absolute piddly-crap, and instead "investing" it into righting the system, the MTA could actually get people to ride their buses. A funky design is NOT going to convince someone who doesn't use them to all of a sudden change their commute pattern. You're SERIOUSLY going to tell me that a great number of bus commuters DON'T know about SBS? I'm sure even Bee-Line or NICE commuters living in those primary service areas know about it. And until they come into NYCT/MTAB territory, they're not exposed to it on a daily basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobtehpanda Posted November 14, 2015 Share #22 Posted November 14, 2015 Still don't get the whole idea of wrapping SBS buses. This "idea" has been around ... what, at least three to four YEARS, and if you've got your head up your behind too busy checking how many "Likes" you've got on FedBook for your latest breakfast order instead of knowing how to get around the city with SBS being out there on so many routes, too farking bad. You guys have the most transit-centric place in the US, and if any real New Yorker who travels by bus doesn't know about SBS by now, they should just get it overwith and take a dirt nap. Just MAYBE instead of spending money on this absolute piddly-crap, and instead "investing" it into righting the system, the MTA could actually get people to ride their buses. A funky design is NOT going to convince someone who doesn't use them to all of a sudden change their commute pattern. You're SERIOUSLY going to tell me that a great number of bus commuters DON'T know about SBS? I'm sure even Bee-Line or NICE commuters living in those primary service areas know about it. And until they come into NYCT/MTAB territory, they're not exposed to it on a daily basis. It's entirely possible. Some people only work or go to school within a certain geographic area and may not be familiar with it; for example, there are no SBS routes in Eastern Queens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetSMART45 Posted November 14, 2015 Share #23 Posted November 14, 2015 It's entirely possible. Some people only work or go to school within a certain geographic area and may not be familiar with it; for example, there are no SBS routes in Eastern Queens. OK, I'll accept that possibility. But I dunno since there's so much shuffling of buses, I think wraps have made appearances pretty much citywide at some point. That's basically what I was referring to. Not everyone has actually used an SBS route itself, but has had some type of contact with it via the buses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DetSMART45 Posted November 14, 2015 Share #24 Posted November 14, 2015 Here's a side question: MTA says it doesn't decal because those supposedly don't hold up as good, which is why everything is painted. When it comes to wraps, that material isn't as durable as decal, yet it holds up effectively? IIRC from the MTA's video of wrapping buses, it takes around 5 hours per bus to complete. Wouldn't it be easier to just do a paint job (maybe with a simpler design) or even a different color scheme? Additionally, are ads allowed on SBS-wrapped buses? In all the pictures, I can't recall seeing any. With a different color scheme, more ad buys could be seen on these "faster" routes, especially if they're like the Bx12 where it is said 30-40 people board at one location alone on the route. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Future ENY OP Posted November 14, 2015 Share #25 Posted November 14, 2015 Here's a side question: Additionally, are ads allowed on SBS-wrapped buses? In all the pictures, I can't recall seeing any. With a different color scheme, more ad buys could be seen on these "faster" routes, especially if they're like the Bx12 where it is said 30-40 people board at one location alone on the route. I think that rule varies by bus depot. With the Manhattan Division. There are ads on the most of their buses with the exception of some MJQ buses. For Bronx and Brooklyn. Most don't have ads on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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