R211 Discussion Thread

[texassubwayfan555]

21 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Their signal system last I heard are very old and in need of an upgrade anyway

Then why not just put in a new fixed block signaling system?

[LGA Link N Train]

42 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Why the hell is the  getting CBTC?

It’s signals are 80+ Years old already, plus it’ll be sandwiched in between 2 CBTC Lines, those being Queens Blvd and Culver (once the section between Church Avenue and West 8th Street-NY Aquarium is complete) so it only makes sense to upgrade the line with CBTC

[JustTheSIR]

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

Funny you bring this up, LIRR sort of planned this with the M7 (it was originally planned look like the M3s do before they changed the design, rendering below)

 

 

 

 

I love the M1/M3 cars but I'm glad the M7s ended up with its current design. The SMEE's are my favorite group of subway cars but I wouldn't want the NTT to look like them... I'm satisfied with the design of the current NTT, just wish the R211 doors were the same size as the R160s doors, my only complaint.

Why does it look like an R44/46 from the front

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

I don't l like to stand, bigger doors = less seating capacity. 

 

 

I backtrack to 8th Ave and Hudson Yards so I don't have to stand on and trains 

 

 

It always irks me whenever there's a news report about the R211 they always tout the bigger doors as some kind of improvement but never mention the reduced seating capacity due to those bigger doors. 

Yep I knew it; the smaller windows and reduced seating are the main complaints that people have about the R211s.

They purposely don't mention the reduced seating because they know there will be ppl that won't be too happy to hear that.

I'm with you on the backtrack thing; I do the same thing whenever I'm close to a terminal. 

[Around the Horn]

2 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Then why not just put in a new fixed block signaling system?

No point in doing that when you can just standardize equipment with Queens Blvd and Culver

[rbrome]

3 hours ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Then why not just put in a new fixed block signaling system?

Because that is ancient. inefficient, inflexible technology. All new metro signal systems are CBTC. When done correctly, it's easier to maintain and more reliable. 

[trainfan22]

According to this source, the R211s revenue service is expected by spring 2023..

 

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/metros/new-york-exercises-option-with-kawasaki-for-640-metro-cars/?fbclid=IwAR0H5kbTzQ_wPPwVgxGdWFcQM6w3GrtQpUVFew0kVRD6L1nG-jXhLn4kObU

 

Edited October 28, 2022 by trainfan22

[texassubwayfan555]

Wow, things are actually going fast. Have the R211T Cars arrived yet?

[rbrome]

1 hour ago, trainfan22 said:

According to this source, the R211s revenue service is expected by spring 2023..

 

https://www.railjournal.com/passenger/metros/new-york-exercises-option-with-kawasaki-for-640-metro-cars/?fbclid=IwAR0H5kbTzQ_wPPwVgxGdWFcQM6w3GrtQpUVFew0kVRD6L1nG-jXhLn4kObU

 

The "source" in this case is an MTA press release: 

https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-votes-order-hundreds-more-cutting-edge-r211-subway-cars

So... is this for open-gangway cars, or is that still to be decided? I assume and hope that open-gangway is still on the table for this option batch....

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, rbrome said:

The "source" in this case is an MTA press release: 

https://new.mta.info/press-release/mta-votes-order-hundreds-more-cutting-edge-r211-subway-cars

So... is this for open-gangway cars, or is that still to be decided? I assume and hope that open-gangway is still on the table for this option batch....

"Qualification testing on the R211s already delivered is underway with passenger service expected by the spring."

Looks like the date for the R211A revenue service entry was pushed back again. Didn't see a mention of the R211T delivery, so maybe it'll come by next month.

Either way, patience is a virtue. I'll just take the advice I received recently about taking things with a grain of salt.

[RedLine]

1st option is closed end cars.

[Reptile]

On 10/26/2022 at 10:25 PM, JustTheSIR said:

Why does it look like an R44/46 from the front

Designed by the same people at the same time. The R44/46 design is so different to prior cars because it was modeled after commuter rail

[subwaycommuter1983]

3 hours ago, RedLine said:

1st option is closed end cars.

I guess the 1st option order will go to the B, C, D due to 8th and 6th Avenue CBTC, while the 2nd option order (most likely r211Ts) will go to Jamaica with the 8 car trains going to ENY.

The base order and the 1st option order should be used to make the A,B,C and D trains fully NTT's. B and D trains often get rerouted via 8th Avenue, so both lines will need NTTs once 8th Avenue CBTC is active.

[sheep]

5 hours ago, RedLine said:

1st option is closed end cars.

where does it say that? the MTA does not mention this anywhere.

[Reptile]

2 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

I guess the 1st option order will go to the B, C, D due to 8th and 6th Avenue CBTC, while the 2nd option order (most likely r211Ts) will go to Jamaica with the 8 car trains going to ENY.

The base order and the 1st option order should be used to make the A,B,C and D trains fully NTT's. B and D trains often get rerouted via 8th Avenue, so both lines will need NTTs once 8th Avenue CBTC is active.

Agreed but I think the 1st option order rather than going to the will go to Jamaica along with the 2nd order, so they can displace R160s to Coney Island for the

[R32 3838]

Damn i just saw the press release and oof. So we got to wait until the spring for these to do their 30 day in revenue service test Smfh. I understand they want to make sure things work but these R46's can barely run as it is and now the R68s are starting to run like shit. I rode an R46 on the today and the floors were shot and mind you this car was SMS'ed back in 2008-2009 when it received a new floor. The R32s and R42s had their floors completely replaced in 2001-2004 and they didn't sag even during their last days.

I rode an R68A on the and the thing could barely run, Once in a while they would be slow but i took 2 R68A trains and they were dogs. I know it wasn't the T/O because even with full power the the train was slow.

[texassubwayfan555]

Just how much more testing do the possibly need to do? They started testing the R211 over a year ago!

[R32 3838]

10 minutes ago, texassubwayfan555 said:

Just how much more testing do the possibly need to do? They started testing the R211 over a year ago!

keep in mind all things are subject to change and the train can enter service earlier than the spring. As of now it's just a projected date. They had to replace certain parts and etc. So they are now testing the cars to make sure they work. This is normal and why it's always good to test a train before throwing it in service.

[subwaycommuter1983]

12 hours ago, Reptile said:

Agreed but I think the 1st option order rather than going to the will go to Jamaica along with the 2nd order, so they can displace R160s to Coney Island for the

That's also a possibility. 

Either way, the B will get NTTs before the NQW due to CBTC and the bulk of the first option order will go to 207 and Concourse.

[darkstar8983]

7 hours ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

That's also a possibility. 

Either way, the B will get NTTs before the NQW due to CBTC and the bulk of the first option order will go to 207 and Concourse.

Yeah. The Base Order and option 1 will ensure the  and  are all set and likely transfer the R179 8-car units out to ENY, with maybe a few sets starting to fill up NTTs on the , which Is still in the air as to whether it will be R211s or R160s. Option 2 will fill up the  and probably leave a few sets available for the Broadway Line, while finally dealing with the 8-car special ordering fiascos

[darkstar8983]

19 hours ago, R32 3838 said:

Damn i just saw the press release and oof. So we got to wait until the spring for these to do their 30 day in revenue service test Smfh. I understand they want to make sure things work but these R46's can barely run as it is and now the R68s are starting to run like shit. I rode an R46 on the today and the floors were shot and mind you this car was SMS'ed back in 2008-2009 when it received a new floor. The R32s and R42s had their floors completely replaced in 2001-2004 and they didn't sag even during their last days.

I rode an R68A on the and the thing could barely run, Once in a while they would be slow but i took 2 R68A trains and they were dogs. I know it wasn't the T/O because even with full power the the train was slow.

Coney Island will also need to permanently improve its spare factor, regardless of which cars they get in the end. Remember that when the R160s were in the three yards ENY, Jamaica, and Coney Island, the Coney Island ones may have been the cleanest, but they had the lowest MDBFs because of low spare factors and having to run on full-time lines that have similar service frequencies all 7 days of the week. When subway lines provide an equal amount of service all 7 days of the week, their cars spend very little if any time in the yard, hence probably why lines like the  and  have lower MDBFs compared to lines in the A division 

[zacster]

On 10/26/2022 at 5:46 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

Did you overlook the obvious  and  situations concerning the reliability of those lines ? Those two lines were chosen as test beds for the CBTC technology because they were isolated from the rest of the system. It was a test of the new signal, period. A very knowledgeable person recently posted in a thread about CBTC something that we were taught long before CBTC was a thought. As long as a train is moving riders are satisfied. CBTC, with less signals than the older wayside system, gives the impression of speed but the running time between terminals remains basically unchanged. I know that many of my former colleagues stopped posting on the forums because they were reading things that were not true or being inaccurate. I’ve personally given up on postings about the junction between lines on the IRT in Brooklyn. My coworkers realize that the average rider or rail fan has absolutely no idea what the timetable, aka “ the Bible “, means or calls for and those that do have stopped being active . They also see the widespread misconception that CBTC means more service running. In theory that’s possible but the  never promised that. We were told that in our refresher courses even before the  CBTC test launched. We all hope that the rollout is successful in both divisions because the signal system is the most important component of RTO, not NTT, and is obsolete. BTW a train is only late after five minutes of the scheduled arrival time. My opinion. YMMV. Carry on 

 

No, I did not overlook the obvious.  I explicitly stated that QBL is different for the reasons you state above.  Did you read my post or just react to it?  "Also, unlike the other two lines, QBL is running in a mixed mode with trains only going into CBTC on that line but running in block mode elsewhere.  And on top of that it is the first line with interlined trains."

And actually the MTA IS saying more service is possible.  Just read the CBTC page on MTA.Info.  But then you need the money to do it.

 

[subwaycommuter1983]

16 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Coney Island will also need to permanently improve its spare factor, regardless of which cars they get in the end. Remember that when the R160s were in the three yards ENY, Jamaica, and Coney Island, the Coney Island ones may have been the cleanest, but they had the lowest MDBFs because of low spare factors and having to run on full-time lines that have similar service frequencies all 7 days of the week. When subway lines provide an equal amount of service all 7 days of the week, their cars spend very little if any time in the yard, hence probably why lines like the  and  have lower MDBFs compared to lines in the A division 

Coney Island needs to utilize all the r68's from the B for the NQ trains during the weekends to give the r46s some rest. Same with Pitkin/207, they need to utilize all the r179's during the weekends as well. All three yards need to give the r46's as much rest as possible. 207 should consider loaning a few r179's from ENY until there's a good number of the base order of r211's in service.

[R32 3838]

51 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Coney Island needs to utilize all the r68's from the B for the NQ trains during the weekends to give the r46s some rest. Same with Pitkin/207, they need to utilize all the r179's during the weekends as well. All three yards need to give the r46's as much rest as possible. 207 should consider loaning a few r179's from ENY until there's a good number of the base order of r211's in service.

 

Pitkin doesn't have enough R179s for the to do that. 130 cars is not enough for a line that needs about 60% of it's fleet during the off peak hours. Plus the R179s have to go through inspections as well.

 

CI is a different story since they have nothing but 75 footers and their fleet is old now.

 

Also Loaning R179s from ENY is a dumb idea since that would require transfers on Friday night and Sunday night and the is no where near ENY to warrant a loan unless its for a brief time like the R32 and R160 swap between 2013-2014.

17 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Coney Island will also need to permanently improve its spare factor, regardless of which cars they get in the end. Remember that when the R160s were in the three yards ENY, Jamaica, and Coney Island, the Coney Island ones may have been the cleanest, but they had the lowest MDBFs because of low spare factors and having to run on full-time lines that have similar service frequencies all 7 days of the week. When subway lines provide an equal amount of service all 7 days of the week, their cars spend very little if any time in the yard, hence probably why lines like the  and  have lower MDBFs compared to lines in the A division 

Before the swap, CI was alright since they had the R160's to balance things out, Now that they got the R46s in return, It makes things more complicated since the R46s require more spares due to it's age compared to the R160s that require a lower spare factor.

Edited October 30, 2022 by R32 3838

[zacster]

They seem to be taking the approach with the R46s to run 'em till they drop.  The cars are a mess.  Let's just hope they last long enough for the R211s to come in. I can't see them spending any money on them either.

They are ordering more but after over a year the first set hasn't had a passenger step foot in it yet.  The 1100 cars on order will be enough to retire the R46 fleet with some spares (16 10 car train sets by my calc).  But that leaves the R68s in service for the foreseeable future even with option 2. 

Maybe CI can utilize the R160s from the F and R that end up there on the weekend.  Just a thought, don't know if it is practical.

Edited October 30, 2022 by zacster