R211 Discussion Thread

[R32 3838]

On 9/4/2022 at 12:35 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

The MTA doesn't publicly give exact dates when new subway cars enter service.

It may happen in November, it may happen sooner or it may happen later.

It makes more sense for the MTA to fix as many issues as possible before the r211's enter service to avoid a repeat of the r179's.

Let's be patient. The r211's will enter service and the r46's will retire.

 

I don't think they need to retire anything until at least 25% of the R211 base order is in. Esp if they are pushing hard for congestion pricing. NYCT is already short on cars in the B division as it is.

[RandomRider0101]

1 hour ago, R32 3838 said:

 

I don't think they need to retire anything until at least 25% of the R211 base order is in. Esp if they are pushing hard for congestion pricing. NYCT is already short on cars in the B division as it is.

I think @subwaycommuter1983 is referring to when the entire R211 order is delivered and in service.

[zacster]

I was just looking at an ERA bulletin from 1961 I think that had the official full roster of cars slated for retirement and when going out 10 years!  This is from when the R27s first started coming in.  It showed some Standards not to be retired until 1971 I think, but the triplexes by 1963.  I only bring this up because at least back then there was some planning behind this.  They started pulling the oddball cars immediately as the R27s came. I would think they'd start pulling the worst of the R46s as the R211s come in, not immediately but as soon as they have about 200 or so.  That may mean the Pitkin cars get transferred to CI as I'm somehow assuming the R211 will go to the A.  As long as they have storage space they won't scrap them, just pull them off the line.

[subwaycommuter1983]

On 9/6/2022 at 1:26 PM, RandomRider0101 said:

I think @subwaycommuter1983 is referring to when the entire R211 order is delivered and in service.

Exactly.

 

16 hours ago, zacster said:

I was just looking at an ERA bulletin from 1961 I think that had the official full roster of cars slated for retirement and when going out 10 years!  This is from when the R27s first started coming in.  It showed some Standards not to be retired until 1971 I think, but the triplexes by 1963.  I only bring this up because at least back then there was some planning behind this.  They started pulling the oddball cars immediately as the R27s came. I would think they'd start pulling the worst of the R46s as the R211s come in, not immediately but as soon as they have about 200 or so.  That may mean the Pitkin cars get transferred to CI as I'm somehow assuming the R211 will go to the A.  As long as they have storage space they won't scrap them, just pull them off the line.

The smartest thing the MTA should do is not to scrap the r46's right away.

Yes, they should retire the worst performing r46's first, but they should be temporarily stored as emergency fleet until most of the base order of the r211's is in service and performing well.

[trainfan22]

17 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

 

Yes, they should retire the worst performing r46's first, but they should be temporarily stored as emergency fleet until most of the base order of the r211's is in service and performing well.

The MTA sort of already does this.

 

With the Redbirds and R32-R42 cars replaced by the R160s. After a train set is removed from passenger service the cars are put in storage at Concourse yard and after a while they are scrapped, and more retired cars replace the scrap cars at Concourse. 

 

They simply don't have the yard space to keep most of the R46s in storage AND have the entire base order of R211s on the property at the same time.

 

 

[RandomRider0101]

3 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The MTA sort of already does this.

 

With the Redbirds and R32-R42 cars replaced by the R160s. After a train set is removed from passenger service the cars are put in storage at Concourse yard and after a while they are scrapped, and more retired cars replace the scrap cars at Concourse. 

 

They simply don't have the yard space to keep most of the R46s in storage AND have the entire base order of R211s on the property at the same time.

 

 

I agree, yard space is already limited as it is.

Since they're expanding the fleet, all yards must be upgraded to handle extra capacity. Otherwise, they won't be able to store that many cars after retirement.

[trainfan22]

51 minutes ago, RandomRider0101 said:

I agree, yard space is already limited as it is.

Since they're expanding the fleet, all yards must be upgraded to handle extra capacity. Otherwise, they won't be able to store that many cars after retirement.

It's highly unlikely they will expand any of the yards. Only B div yard with space to expand is Jamaica and it wasn't done for reasons I can't remember. The other yards are in densely populated areas. It would be a hard sell to acquire land to store decommissioned subway cars. Most NYC residents would be like, why take away property to add yard space to store subway cars that aren't needed anymore, scrap them!

 

 

 

[RandomRider0101]

17 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

It's highly unlikely they will expand any of the yards. Only B div yard with space to expand is Jamaica and it wasn't done for reasons I can't remember. The other yards are in densely populated areas. It would be a hard sell to acquire land to store decommissioned subway cars. Most NYC residents would be like, why take away property to add yard space to store subway cars that aren't needed anymore, scrap them!

 

 

 

Oh, alright. Well then in that case, they can only save a limited amount of cars after retirement.

The only other real solution is that when a new subway car is having major problems, they temporarily halt deliveries until all serious issues are resolved. 

They kinda did this with the R179s, but they didn't do enough as they still continued (or continue) to be riddled with issues.

 

 

 

 

[Bill from Maspeth]

18 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

It's highly unlikely they will expand any of the yards. Only B div yard with space to expand is Jamaica and it wasn't done for reasons I can't remember. The other yards are in densely populated areas. It would be a hard sell to acquire land to store decommissioned subway cars. Most NYC residents would be like, why take away property to add yard space to store subway cars that aren't needed anymore, scrap them!

 

 

 

JYD can't be expanded because the ground is too soft

[T to Dyre Avenue]

On 9/7/2022 at 3:40 PM, trainfan22 said:

The MTA sort of already does this.

 

With the Redbirds and R32-R42 cars replaced by the R160s. After a train set is removed from passenger service the cars are put in storage at Concourse yard and after a while they are scrapped, and more retired cars replace the scrap cars at Concourse. 

 

They simply don't have the yard space to keep most of the R46s in storage AND have the entire base order of R211s on the property at the same time.

 

 

I presume that’s once the pilot set(s) of the new fleet is/are accepted into passenger service. They have to have a substantial amount of the old cars on hand in case the new cars begin experiencing mechanical problems before the base order is complete.

Edited September 10, 2022 by T to Dyre Avenue

[Kamen Rider]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:24 PM, Bill from Maspeth said:

JYD can't be expanded because the ground is too soft

last I heard they were still talking about doing it. 

[LTA1992]

On 9/10/2022 at 1:19 AM, Kamen Rider said:

last I heard they were still talking about doing it. 

He also never mentioned WHY it's too soft.

You can't just say something and expect us to take it...

[RandomRider0101]

On 9/8/2022 at 2:24 PM, Bill from Maspeth said:

JYD can't be expanded because the ground is too soft

 

On 9/10/2022 at 1:19 AM, Kamen Rider said:

last I heard they were still talking about doing it. 

 

2 hours ago, LTA1992 said:

He also never mentioned WHY it's too soft.

You can't just say something and expect us to take it...

Well in that case, WHY is the ground at Jamaica Yard too soft?

AND if they're still considering expanding it, how will they address this issue?

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

 

 

Well in that case, WHY is the ground at Jamaica Yard too soft?

AND if they're still considering expanding it, how will they address this issue?

I think it’s the marshland next to Flushing Meadows Park. There’s a lake right there 

Edited September 11, 2022 by darkstar8983

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

I think it’s the marshland next to Flushing Meadows Park. There’s a lake right there 

Yeah, I just looked at Jamaica Yard on Google Maps; and it is a tight space. Maybe they'll figure something out, or they're just gonna have to work with what they have.

I think they can store extra cars at Coney Island since it's the largest yard in the system anyway. The  runs to Coney Island- Stillwell Ave. as well, so it wouldn't be out of the way for that line.

 

[darkstar8983]

5 hours ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Yeah, I just looked at Jamaica Yard on Google Maps; and it is a tight space. Maybe they'll figure something out, or they're just gonna have to work with what they have.

I think they can store extra cars at Coney Island since it's the largest yard in the system anyway. The  runs to Coney Island- Stillwell Ave. as well, so it wouldn't be out of the way for that line.

 

Yeah I think Coney Island has space since the  isn’t there anymore (on the  side) and neither has the since 2010 on the West End   side

Edited September 11, 2022 by darkstar8983

[zacster]

It doesn't really matter which yard you are talking about.  There is only so much room in the combined yard space.  It is highly unlikely that any expansion would be ready in time for the R46s to be stored somewhere that isn't already in place.  They'll put them wherever they can if they decide to keep them until they completely run out of room.  And for that matter you probably need some extra space for some flexibility within the yard.  You can't have every spare track occupied either.

Where are the R32s that are still around?  I've seen a lot of R42s at 38th St yard as I drive by the cemetery but probably not as many as I think.

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, zacster said:

It doesn't really matter which yard you are talking about.  There is only so much room in the combined yard space.  It is highly unlikely that any expansion would be ready in time for the R46s to be stored somewhere that isn't already in place.  They'll put them wherever they can if they decide to keep them until they completely run out of room.  And for that matter you probably need some extra space for some flexibility within the yard.  You can't have every spare track occupied either.

Where are the R32s that are still around?  I've seen a lot of R42s at 38th St yard as I drive by the cemetery but probably not as many as I think.

Yeah there’s not enough yard space - I mean look at Jamaica - the Queens Blvd Express tracks are stacked with trains evenings and weekends and the yard is full

[LGA Link N Train]

So could things come to a point where would need to consider building a New Yard by any chance in order to handle Rolling Stock Expansion?

[subwaycommuter1983]

Something to keep in mind is that not ALL r46's will be stored when all the r211's are delivered. They will gradually be scrapped as more r211's enter service.

The MTA should definitely wait until the base order of r211's are in service before scrapping r46's and it should be done gradually.

Ridership is increasing and the MTA needs to avoid a fleet shortage. There was a fleet shortage in 2020 due to issues on the r179's. Fortunately, ridership was low at that time due to COVID.

 

[RandomRider0101]

24 minutes ago, subwaycommuter1983 said:

Something to keep in mind is that not ALL r46's will be stored when all the r211's are delivered. They will gradually be scrapped as more r211's enter service.

The MTA should definitely wait until the base order of r211's are in service before scrapping r46's and it should be done gradually.

Ridership is increasing and the MTA needs to avoid a fleet shortage. There was a fleet shortage in 2020 due to issues on the r179's. Fortunately, ridership was low at that time due to COVID.

 

Agreed.

[Vulturious]

[Amiri the subway guy]

Will they be enough room the R68s

[trainfan22]

2 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

LMAO tagged before the train even entered service..

[jon2305]

54 minutes ago, Vulturious said:

Hmm........ Well, it was bound to happen I guess.