R211 Discussion Thread

[Art Vandelay]

1 minute ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Staten Island won't take up much of the R211 fleet (if those numbers turn out to be even true), only 60-80 cars are needed. 

75. 

[LGA Link N Train]

1 hour ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

Staten Island won't take up much of the R211 fleet (if those numbers turn out to be even true), only 60-80 cars are needed. 

I was referring to the whole order on average If all options are exercised. 

Staten Island will have 75 cars. That I'm aware of. I was talking about the POTENTIAL maximum amount that we could have. 

2,130-75= 2,055 left for the subway 

Under your 80 car scenario we'd have 2,050 cars left for the subway. Again, it may not be true, but it's the potential amount of R211's that we could have. Thus giving us a chance to retire a few R68's early 

[darkstar8983]

3 hours ago, RR503 said:

Fleet expansion much? We're facing a B div car shortage... 

The expansion is probably to increase the spare factor to an acceptable level per subway line to allow proper car maintenance and to have provisions to increase service where capacity warrants. This might be the only car order done before phase 2 of the second avenue subway opens, and a lot of extra cars will be needed to provide that new service. 

[LGA Link N Train]

2 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

The expansion is probably to increase the spare factor to an acceptable level per subway line to allow proper car maintenance and to have provisions to increase service where capacity warrants. This might be the only car order done before phase 2 of the second avenue subway opens, and a lot of extra cars will be needed to provide that new service. 

So is my prediction stepping in the right direction?

[VIP]

Do we even have ample storage space for all these extra trains? 

[LGA Link N Train]

1 minute ago, VIP said:

Do we even have ample storage space for all these extra trains? 

I'm not sure, but you bring up a good point. I'd suggest building a yard at Astoria if there's no room at other yards. But then we can go from having a B division shortage to a B division Surplus so. ......

Retire a few R68's early??

[Art Vandelay]

I don't believe there is any consideration of ordering more than 1612 cars. Where is anybody getting a higher number from?

[Bosco]

6 minutes ago, VIP said:

Do we even have ample storage space for all these extra trains? 

IIMN, as part of SAS Phase 3, 36th-38th St Yard would be expanded to accommodate the .  Remember, as it is the extra R211 cars are designed to supplement SAS (although it's not likely that even Phase 2 will be online by the time this order wraps up).

Just now, Art Vandelay said:

I don't believe there is any consideration of ordering more than 1612 cars. Where is anybody getting a higher number from?

Any higher number is pure speculation ATM, but additional options would/could be added in the event that the R68s retire at the tail end of the second option order.  The MTA will be issuing an RFP at that point anyway, so it would make sense just to do it in one shot instead of going through the whole bidding process again.

 

Edited January 22, 2018 by Bosco

[RR503]

In terms of yard, there’s some wording in the SAS FEIS about expanding 38th street to include facilities for revenue cars, and I know Jamaica is slated to be expanded in some way too. Also remember that if you increase service on lines or add new lines, you reduce the number of cars that have to be stored, somewhat lessening the need for yard space.

I’d say that the biggest concern will probably be with maintenance facilities. With fleet expansion and the greater technical complexity of these newer cars, repairs/SMSs will probably take longer, and will be much more involved than present. This will of course require more shop space and time, something that is, well, limited. 

[Art Vandelay]

1612(R211)+300(R179)-222(R32)-50(R42) -940(R46) -80(R44)= 620

You could start to retire the R68/R68A fleet if all the options are taken. Yes, you could probably find space for most of that equipment, although you might have to start getting creative.

My guess is:
Option 1 is intended to finish the retirement of the R46
Option 2 is intended for SAS Phase II/other growth. 

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, Art Vandelay said:

1612(R211)+300(R179)-222(R32)-50(R42) -940(R46) -80(R44)= 620

You could start to retire the R68/R68A fleet if all the options are taken. Yes, you could probably find space for most of that equipment, although you might have to start getting creative.

My guess is:
Option 1 is intended to finish the retirement of the R46
Option 2 is intended for SAS Phase II/other growth. 

In fact, earlier in this thread the proposed assignments that @East New York had posted indicated as such... The was slated to get option cars

 

[Art Vandelay]

That is the Q, not the T. The T isn't happening anytime soon. 

[RailRunRob]

12 hours ago, Bosco said:

IIMN, as part of SAS Phase 3, 36th-38th St Yard would be expanded to accommodate the .  Remember, as it is the extra R211 cars are designed to supplement SAS (although it's not likely that even Phase 2 will be online by the time this order wraps up).

What's the routing to get trains from the 36th street yard onto Second Ave trackage for the ?  63rd is linked to the Lower SAS from the plans so Jamaica I could understand that. Wouldn't it be easier to maybe move the   to an expanded 36th street yard? 

Edited January 22, 2018 by RailRunRob

[Art Vandelay]

I think that is what would actually happen- R moves to 36th street, T to Jamaica. 

[Jemorie]

Wouldn't this entire R211 order be enough to retire the R68/68As as well?

[LGA Link N Train]

3 minutes ago, Jemorie said:

Wouldn't this entire R211 order be enough to retire the R68/68As as well?

That's what I've been saying the whole damn time. 

but it DEFINITELY WON'T replace all of them

[Bosco]

3 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

That's what I've been saying the whole damn time. 

but it DEFINITELY WON'T replace all of them

Between the fact that the  isn't happening for a LONG time (at least at the current rate of things), and the need for more trains for CBTC installation on existing lines, I doubt that the R68s would be touched with the current setup.

Doing the math, and assuming 160 R32s remain after the shutdown, 160 + 940 (for the R46s) = 1100, leaving 512 expansion cars.  Remember, the goal is to expand the current fleet to allow for a better spare factor, and to keep up with service requirements.  I doubt the  will go back to OPTO even after the shutdown, and I wouldn't be surprised if the frequencies on the aren't reduced by much one the  train is restored.  So it's safe to say every line will see more trains in some way.

Even if you wanted to replace the R68s, you would need 625 • (5/4) or 782 more cars, ignoring additions.  While it is something that should be considered in the future, we are a ways from there and a lot can change in terms of technology and requirements.

[Art Vandelay]

20 minutes ago, Bosco said:

Between the fact that the  isn't happening for a LONG time (at least at the current rate of things), and the need for more trains for CBTC installation on existing lines, I doubt that the R68s would be touched with the current setup.

Doing the math, and assuming 160 R32s remain after the shutdown, 160 + 940 (for the R46s) = 1100, leaving 512 expansion cars.  Remember, the goal is to expand the current fleet to allow for a better spare factor, and to keep up with service requirements.  I doubt the  will go back to OPTO even after the shutdown, and I wouldn't be surprised if the frequencies on the aren't reduced by much one the  train is restored.  So it's safe to say every line will see more trains in some way.

Even if you wanted to replace the R68s, you would need 625 • (5/4) or 782 more cars, ignoring additions.  While it is something that should be considered in the future, we are a ways from there and a lot can change in terms of technology and requirements.

Also remember- 80 of those are going to Staten Island. 

[4 via Mosholu]

On 1/21/2018 at 10:27 PM, LGA Link N train said:

I'm not sure, but you bring up a good point. I'd suggest building a yard at Astoria if there's no room at other yards. But then we can go from having a B division shortage to a B division Surplus so. ......

Retire a few R68's early??

It would have to take another car order built upon the 211 tech to retire the 68. As @Bosco said earlier, 782 more cars would be necessary even without the additions mentioned. Besides, things in terms of technology and requirements could completely change. It's anyone's guess regarding what if anything the car order number would be, given that the 62 would be due for retirement before we even begin to talk about what would replace the 68 by the Franco-Germans and Japanese. There is also the fact that a new order for work trains would enter service as well before then.

[LGA Link N Train]

On 1/22/2018 at 11:15 AM, Art Vandelay said:

I think that is what would actually happen- R moves to 36th street, T to Jamaica. 

36-38 Streets yard is designed specifically for work trains

Though if you were to talk about moving the to a new yard then I'd suggest build a new one at Astoria 

[RailRunRob]

2 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

36-38 Streets yard is designed specifically for work trains

Though if you were to talk about moving the to a new yard then I'd suggest build a new one at Astoria 

Wasnt it said it was an extension of the 36th street yard?  Astoria what open land is available? With a connection to the QBL? 

[LTA1992]

1 hour ago, LGA Link N train said:

36-38 Streets yard is designed specifically for work trains

Though if you were to talk about moving the to a new yard then I'd suggest build a new one at Astoria 

It was originally a yard for rapid transit cars on the BMT system. It can be changed back.

[quadcorder]

53 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

It was originally a yard for rapid transit cars on the BMT system. It can be changed back.

Would it be possible for this yard to allow the N and R to switch northern terminals?

[LTA1992]

16 minutes ago, quadcorder said:

Would it be possible for this yard to allow the N and R to switch northern terminals?

Why? The whole reason they switched in the first place was to give the  direct access to a yard. The  had access to Jamaica as well as CIY. No sense in switching it again.

And even before that, taking Broadway Express service from Astoria? lol

[quadcorder]

The decrease in merging on the Broadway Line would allow for increased service is the idea. This was discussed at one point in the 2 Av thread. However it would be moot once the comes online since then increased would not be necessary anymore. Sorry for off-topic.

Re: R211, can someone confirm that the idea is that the subsequent orders can be the open-gangway model if it is determined to be a success, and that is why the order is broken up into several contracts the way it is?