R211 Discussion Thread

[Bosco]

The Franklin Shuttle can't even handle 300-foot trains.  The shortest platform is about 180 feet, so they'll need either to reconfigure train sets or extend the platform(s) to accommodate at least a 240-foot train.  In the meantime, the  are givens, with the  a possibility for the option cars.  I don't see the  getting them as it's a part-time line.

While it's a discussion for another topic, in an ideal world the Rockaway Park shuttle would be absorbed into the  somehow.  Depending on how many R211s we get, we might be able to do just that.

[R68OnBroadway]

5 hours ago, LGA Link N train said:

I feel like I have a theory about the '211's.

A few will be assigned to the and  

Another group will go to the and  

It could possibly appear on the and  

The (Both rockaway and franklin) could get 211's

Franklin's 68s are fine. No need to make line upgrades when the 68s fit the line fine (single units, permanent side  signs, easy OPTO use) .

[LGA Link N Train]

8 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Franklin's 68s are fine. No need to make line upgrades when the 68s fit the line fine (single units, permanent side  signs, easy OPTO use) .

Well, this was just a prediction so I see your point

[Mysterious2train]

From this month's Capital Program Oversight Committee meeting materials. The contract award is still not ready - it's set for January now. It's been pushed back by 7 months from the original goal of June 2017. And the cost of the first order went up by $400 million for some reason. 

 

Edited December 9, 2017 by Mysterious2train

[rbrome]

Does anyone know why this contract is taking so long to award? It was just a few months ago that Cuomo and the MTA were talking about the need to speed up the delivery of these cars, and here they are dragging their feet. What gives?

[LGA Link N Train]

Somethings not right

[Bosco]

11 hours ago, rbrome said:

Does anyone know why this contract is taking so long to award? It was just a few months ago that Cuomo and the MTA were talking about the need to speed up the delivery of these cars, and here they are dragging their feet. What gives?

It's honestly stupid and at the very least, they should've awarded the base contract months ago.

My educated guess is that Kawasaki will get the engineering award and do some of the production while Alstom will do the rest of the manufacturing (similar to the R160).  Except Alstom and Siemens just merged, and my sense is that the MTA is working out the logistics of how production will be split between the three companies.  And, unlike the R160, Kawasaki will likely still have some M9As in Yonkers while the R211s start to roll in.

[darkstar8983]

On 12/8/2017 at 7:18 PM, LGA Link N train said:

I feel like I have a theory about the '211's.

A few will be assigned to the and  

Another group will go to the and  

It could possibly appear on the and  

The (Both rockaway and franklin) could get 211's

This could be a good projected assignment except that for Queens Blvd CBTC, the R160s will be used, so the first batch of R211s will go to the  and the rest will join the  

[Around the Horn]

3 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

This could be a good projected assignment except that for Queens Blvd CBTC, the R160s will be used, so the first batch of R211s will go to the  and the rest will join the  

The R160s on  are temporary. The long term plan is the R160's currently at Jamaica plus R211s. 

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, Around the Horn said:

The R160s on  are temporary. The long term plan is the R160's currently at Jamaica plus R211s. 

That would be too many cars for Jamaica and would defeat the purpose of every yard having only one car class assigned to it:

 

1. Pitkin/207 St gets all R46, eventually R211

2. Jamaica gets all R160

3. Concourse keeps R68s

4. ENY gets mesh of R143/R160/R179

5. Coney Island gets mesh of R68/R68A, R46, R160, R179, eventually R211

 

but in the end it would be beneficial because that way CBTC is operated with factory fresh cars rather than subway cars that have already had 15 years worth of mileage put on them like the converted R142As on the  

Edited December 10, 2017 by darkstar8983

[Around the Horn]

Again, the long term plan is for Jamaica to keep its current allotment of R160's and replace the R46s with R211s. There is no plan to make Jamaica one car class, except to accelerate CBTC. 

[RR503]

What's more, the  and  could really use those gangways... 

[Lance]

That may be the overarching plan once the open gangway concept is confirmed to be safe and acceptable.

[Art Vandelay]

My guess:
R211T's go to the A D E F 
R211A's Go to the R, and fill out whatever is missing on the A/D. 
The Jamaica R160s that stay in Jamaica end up on the R. The rest end up on the A/B/C/D for 8th ave CBTC.
R68/As end up living the rest of their days on the N/Q/W .

[Daniel The Cool]

2 hours ago, Art Vandelay said:

My guess:
R211T's go to the A D E F 
R211A's Go to the R, and fill out whatever is missing on the A/D. 
The Jamaica R160s that stay in Jamaica end up on the R. The rest end up on the A/B/C/D for 8th ave CBTC.
R68/As end up living the rest of their days on the N/Q/W .

It would be years before CBTC will be activated on 8th Avenue. They're nowhere near ready for Queens Blvd right now and the 8th Avenue CBTC work hasn't really started yet.

[Union Tpke]

24 minutes ago, Daniel The Cool said:

It would be years before CBTC will be activated on 8th Avenue. They're nowhere near ready for Queens Blvd right now and the 8th Avenue CBTC work hasn't really started yet.

MTA documents, such as this, have indicated that the R211s will go on Eighth Avenue. See page IV-5.

[Daniel The Cool]

41 minutes ago, Union Tpke said:

MTA documents, such as this, have indicated that the R211s will go on Eighth Avenue. See page IV-5.

I know that the R211s are supposed to go on the  and  Lines. I was saying CBTC wouldn't even be activated yet on 8th Avenue when the R211s come in.

Edited December 12, 2017 by Daniel The Cool

[Bill from Maspeth]

Gee whiz fellas.  2022 for CBTC to be activated along 8th Ave. is a really big stretch.  Based on current CBTC with initial issues on the L and continuing issues on the 7 making implimentation later and later, there is no way IMO you will see CBTC  on Eighth Ave. by the predicted date.  Has transit said 2022?

On a related subject, just because you see those CBTC "thingies" on the roadbed along the Queens IND, don't think CBTC will be ready anytime soon.  There is a lot more to this CBTC stuff than what you see out in the field.

[rbrome]

56 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Gee whiz fellas.  2022 for CBTC to be activated along 8th Ave. is a really big stretch.  Based on current CBTC with initial issues on the L and continuing issues on the 7 making implimentation later and later, there is no way IMO you will see CBTC  on Eighth Ave. by the predicted date.  Has transit said 2022?

On a related subject, just because you see those CBTC "thingies" on the roadbed along the Queens IND, don't think CBTC will be ready anytime soon.  There is a lot more to this CBTC stuff than what you see out in the field.

True, although the MTA is getting a lot of (well-deserved) heat for its insanely slow CBTC implementation plan. They will have to find a way to speed it up sooner or later. Hopefully sooner. 

[jamesman8]

On 12/10/2017 at 1:11 AM, Bosco said:

It's honestly stupid and at the very least, they should've awarded the base contract months ago.

My educated guess is that Kawasaki will get the engineering award and do some of the production while Alstom will do the rest of the manufacturing (similar to the R160).  Except Alstom and Siemens just merged, and my sense is that the MTA is working out the logistics of how production will be split between the three companies.  And, unlike the R160, Kawasaki will likely still have some M9As in Yonkers while the R211s start to roll in.

I thought the M9's were being built and assembled in Lincoln, NE. Not Yonkers.

[Bosco]

21 minutes ago, jamesman8 said:

I thought the M9's were being built and assembled in Lincoln, NE. Not Yonkers.

Nope, the structural carbody is built in Lincoln, with final assembly taking place in Yonkers.  Same as the R160 and R188:
http://web.mta.info/mta/news/books/pdf/171023_0830_MNR&LIRR.pdf, Page 78

In any case, the first production car shells are scheduled to arrive for assembly sometime this spring.

[LGA Link N Train]

In my opinion, CBTC IS NOT THE ANSWER TO INPROVING OUR TRAIN CAPACITY ISSUE

[RailRunRob]

16 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

In my opinion, CBTC IS NOT THE ANSWER TO INPROVING OUR TRAIN CAPACITY ISSUE

So what is? Without building new lines?

[quadcorder]

23 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

In my opinion, CBTC IS NOT THE ANSWER TO INPROVING OUR TRAIN CAPACITY ISSUE

I'm sorry. LOL. What? Do you disgaree with the fact, "CBTC increases the maximum number of trains per hour that can safely be run on one track in one direction"?

[rbrome]

23 minutes ago, LGA Link N train said:

In my opinion, CBTC IS NOT THE ANSWER TO INPROVING OUR TRAIN CAPACITY ISSUE

It may not be the be-all and end-all. But it can add not-insignificant capacity to existing lines with no other changes. It's vastly cheaper than new lines. The MTA would be crazy to not do it. 

It's also the current best practice and effective world standard. Fixed-block is ancient technology that will only be more difficult to maintain in the future. That's true of any fixed-block system, but much of NYC's is particularly ancient.