Department of Subways - Proposals/Ideas

[Union Tpke]

Didn't some trains drop out at City Hall during rush hour or was that the ?

some dropped out at Canal.

[Wallyhorse]

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want the same hassle when traveling abroad. When you need to make a quick decision, do you have all day to memorize an entire transportation system—or look into its track map? No normal person puts up with that.

 

I know the system liek the back of my hand and even I find it bothersome to have to consider all the possible options.

Overall yes (and I agree as a whole less confusion is good), but there are instances where having a line go to different terminals depending on time of day is useful.

 

In my case with a full-time , on weekdays I would have it go to Broadway Junction simply because that is the easiest place to terminate such a line.  The idea of running such to Metropolitan on weekends is strictly to eliminate the need for the overnight shuttle and current weekend to Essex/Chambers since it can then absorb such.

 

If you can re-add the third track at Myrtle-Wyckoff. then perhaps you could have such trains terminate there on weekdays and then have such be full-time between Myrtle-Wyckoff and 95th Street in Brooklyn with the line extended late nights and weekends to Metropolitan (basically the old but going with the on 4th Avenue to help with known problems on the with lack of trains at times). . 

[Fresh Pond]

You can't re-add the third track there. The amount of work they did just to combine the 2 platforms would make it a waste. Plus you would have to move the elevator to one platform, THEN add another elevator to the other platform.

Edited December 9, 2015 by Fresh Pond

[CenSin]

Overall yes (and I agree as a whole less confusion is good), but there are instances where having a line go to different terminals depending on time of day is useful.

Then you should use different letters. If there’s a big difference then it shouldn’t be called the same thing. Heck, the MTA should stop using for all 3 Queens branches. for both Rockaway branches is tolerable, but Ozone Park and Far Rockaway are like north and south.

 

Using the same letter is fine though if it’s a truncation and/or a downgrade to local service during low-usage hours.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Sorry:

 

I do the different time of day stuff sometimes where I think such is warranted. The idea is a return to the days where people are rewarded for paying attention and actually knowing the system (I learned that lesson the hard way years ago).

 

As for the Jamaica Skip-Stop, what I would likely do there is to have what would be (J1) and (J2) trains. (J1) would stop at current skip-stop stations while (J2) trains would stop at current stations. As such would only run during rush hours, that would also make it clear riders are on a rush-hour line since all other times, such would be simply .

Keeping it simple just isn't your thing, is it? Why would you ditch the long-used and designations for skip-stop in favor of an alphanumeric J1 and J2? When has the MTA ever used alphanumeric designations for train routes and why should they start now?

 

Why not just use a different letter for your proposed service? There are plenty of unused letters like K or P which could fit the bill, although I kind of think your 24-hour service running from Nassau St to Bay Ridge is a bit overkill, especially with the running through the Montague Tunnel and both the and running on the 4th Ave local overnight. It really remains to be seen if there is a real need for Nassau St-4th Ave local service outside of rush hours, so that's why I think a limited short-turn running between Broadway Junction and Bay Ridge during the "peak of the peak" (roughly 7:30-9 AM and 4:30-6 PM) should be tried out before any kind of full-time service runs from southern Brooklyn to the Nassau St line.

Edited December 10, 2015 by T to Dyre Avenue

[CenSin]

I should also add that, should there be so many different routes that there aren’t enough numbers and letters, you must switch to alternative means of naming routes. Buses, for example, use the BOROUGH-NUMBER-[limited] designation with up to two letters to identify the borough, up to three numbers to differentiate the route, and a flag to specify whether the service is limited or not. A more descriptive method, however, would be START-END-CORRIDOR-[express] which is already used on all trains. But neither format will fit in the space of a bullet.

[Wallyhorse]

Keeping it simple just isn't your thing, is it? Why would you ditch the long-used and designations for skip-stop in favor of an alphanumeric J1 and J2? When has the MTA ever used alphanumeric designations for train routes and why should they start now?

 

Why not just use a different letter for your proposed service? There are plenty of unused letters like K or P which could fit the bill, although I kind of think your 24-hour service running from Nassau St to Bay Ridge is a bit overkill, especially with the running through the Montague Tunnel and both the and running on the 4th Ave local overnight. It really remains to be seen if there is a real need for Nassau St-4th Ave local service outside of rush hours, so that's why I think a limited short-turn running between Broadway Junction and Bay Ridge during the "peak of the peak" (roughly 7:30-9 AM and 4:30-6 PM) should be tried out before any kind of full-time service runs from southern Brooklyn to the Nassau St line.

As said, this is addressing a longstanding complaint of many in a number forums and elsewhere.  This 24/7 would be designed to mainly supplement the during the day and evening, especially given the 's known history of running behind schedule.  Going 24/7 and doing it as I originally had it with the split destinations would be designed as noted to specifically eliminate BOTH the late night shuttle in Brooklyn AND the late night and weekend shuttles by having it replace the when the is NOT running to 71st-Continental.  

 

If this is running 24/7, you could actually truncate the to Chambers then since the would pick up Fulton and Broad on its way to the Montauge Tunnel.  You also can have the and both run express on 4th Avenue late nights by doing this since the would be running the full Brooklyn portion of the then.  

 

And yes, a could be used to designate skip-stop if the becomes a full-time line.  

Edited December 10, 2015 by Wallyhorse

[CenSin]

As said, this is addressing a longstanding complaint of many in a number forums and elsewhere.  This 24/7 would be designed to mainly supplement the during the day and evening, especially given the 's known history of running behind schedule.  Going 24/7 and doing it as I originally had it with the split destinations would be designed as noted to specifically eliminate BOTH the late night shuttle in Brooklyn AND the late night and weekend shuttles by having it replace the when the is NOT running to 71st-Continental.  

 

If this is running 24/7, you could actually truncate the to Chambers then since the would pick up Fulton and Broad on its way to the Montauge Tunnel.  You also can have the and both run express on 4th Avenue late nights by doing this since the would be running the full Brooklyn portion of the then.  

 

And yes, a could be used to designate skip-stop if the becomes a full-time line.  

If you were to implement all the changes you’ve ever proposed, how much space would the service guide require to describe all the exceptions you always have? I imagine it’d be no better than reading an end-user agreement or looking up a basketful of footnotes.

[Lance]

Forget about the map. I feel sorry for the poor schmuck who has to decipher the overhead signs at the stations under Wallyhorse's proposals. It's a lot of "[X] to [Y], except during [n] times, when it runs to [Z]", especially when [Y] and [Z] are nowhere near each other. One of these days, I really need to make some of those signs in Illustrator just to show what I'm talking about.

[CenSin]

Forget about the map. I feel sorry for the poor schmuck who has to decipher the overhead signs at the stations under Wallyhorse's proposals. It's a lot of "[X] to [Y], except during [n] times, when it runs to [Z]", especially when [Y] and [Z] are nowhere near each other. One of these days, I really need to make some of those signs in Illustrator just to show what I'm talking about.

When you're done with your essay–sign, please post here.

[BreeddekalbL]

I have an idea if the subway is chosen for rockaway beach branch activation, cause we don't need another damn highline i'd say it would split a train off to the rockaway beach branch from woodhaven blvd (make woodhaven into express station if can be done) or wherever the connections would be at. Either the would be split  which would allow the to go to 71st or something can be done.

[NewFlyer 230]

I have an idea if the subway is chosen for rockaway beach branch activation, cause we don't need another damn highline i'd say it would split a train off to the rockaway beach branch from woodhaven blvd (make woodhaven into express station if can be done) or wherever the connections would be at. Either the would be split which would allow the to go to 71st or something can be done.

The is not going to work. You can't have the the and on the same track. Plus the is out because it is only 4 cars. The would be too long. The Rockaway Line would have to act as a feeder route and run in one borough like the would. I actually said make Woodhaven where the wall will be broken down and you have a local island platform for an easy transfer and have the train loop around or just build another station for the Rockaway Branch.

[BreeddekalbL]

i also pegged this with the LIRR option which you can see in the lirr proposal thread

[paulrivera]

I just thought of something that can be done with the during the weekends.

 

My idea would involve cutting the back to 145th Street *weekends only* for the purpose of introducing surplus full-length equipment from Concourse that otherwise goes unused from Friday to Monday (the cutback to 145th makes Concourse deadheads much easier.) Of course the would make the local stops at 155th and 163rd (maybe 135th too if an accessibility issue is brought up from riders that need 135th from the Heights or Inwood,) and whatever 8 car train at Pitkin would still be used in service.

 

This idea can come in handy if and when they want to minimize the R32's usage while increasing capacity albeit on a limited basis.

[RollOver]

I just thought of something that can be done with the during the weekends.

 

My idea would involve cutting the back to 145th Street *weekends only* for the purpose of introducing surplus full-length equipment from Concourse that otherwise goes unused from Friday to Monday (the cutback to 145th makes Concourse deadheads much easier.) Of course the would make the local stops at 155th and 163rd (maybe 135th too if an accessibility issue is brought up from riders that need 135th from the Heights or Inwood,) and whatever 8 car train at Pitkin would still be used in service.

 

This idea can come in handy if and when they want to minimize the R32's usage while increasing capacity albeit on a limited basis.

 

I mean really, all you have to do is just simply use the extra R46s from Pitkin or 207th rather than cutting the line back to 145th and having the run local for just two stops unnecessary. Simple as that.

 

The runs a bit less frequently during the off-peak (especially on Sundays when it has the same 10 minute headways like the does) anyway.

Edited December 19, 2015 by RollOver

[GojiMet86]

So I've been working on a fantasy map, and there's a Staten Island line that would run on the West Shore via the freight line and unto the Expressway. I'm undecided about putting this one stop at the West Shore Plaza. Is it really popular as to devote a heavy rail stop for a shopping center that's not open 24/7?

[Quill Depot]

So I've been working on a fantasy map, and there's a Staten Island line that would run on the West Shore via the freight line and unto the Expressway. I'm undecided about putting this one stop at the West Shore Plaza. Is it really popular as to devote a heavy rail stop for a shopping center that's not open 24/7?

How bout a first 5 car stop or something, or only in the peak direction.

[P3F]

If a few lines do not have much ridership, but still have some, a frequent line could be divided into less frequent branches, with headways being appropriate for the individual, less patronized, branches. This is also a way to bring one-seat rides from many areas, without creating many new lines, or using prolific switching.

 

So, this is what I've been thinking of for the southern end of the 2nd Avenue line.

 

The T and U would be the lines running on 2nd Avenue, around 15 TPH each. (Preferably 18 TPH for the U, but that is unlikely). Northbound, the U would leave 2nd Avenue at or below 63rd Street (maybe for Queens Boulevard?), while the T would continue north with the Q.

 

The line would be built according to the current plans, down to Hanover Square.

 

South of there, it would continue, carrying both the T and U, to Whitehall Street. The T splits from the U and uses a separate level there, while the U merges with the R.

 

The T continues in its own tunnel to Governor's Island, makes a stop at the northern end of the island, and heads east to become the Fulton Local via the then-former Transit Museum (which can be relocated).

 

The U continues via the R to its level of Jay Street. At which point, it splits into three branches of 5 TPH each:

 

-Staten Island Branch: This branch of the U continues as a 4th Avenue Express after DeKalb Avenue, and splits with the R after 86th Street to meet with the SIR at Grasmere and continue in a southwest direction from there. If the money is there, the lower 4th Avenue stations would be converted to a four-track setup as intended.

 

-Culver Branch: Culver U trains would merge into the F express south of Jay Street, and make stops at all Culver Express stations, including Bergen Street. South of Church Avenue, non peak-direction U trains run local. This line would descend underground between Neptune Avenue and West 8th Street, and make a stop at Coney Island. After that, it would make a stop at W 22 Street, before terminating at a W 35 Street terminal.

 

-West End Branch: These U trains continue as 4th Avenue Expresses, and run with the D, making peak-direction express stops south of 36th Street. These trains descend underground south of Bay 50th Street, and stop along with the Culver Express trains at Coney Island, running with that branch to W 22 and W 35 Streets.

 

The above is the rush hour service pattern. Here are the changes for the U line for different times of day (without mentioning the mandatory decrease in frequencies):

 

Middays/Evenings: The West End Branch does not operate.

 

Late Nights and Weekends: The West End and Culver Branches do not operate. A shuttle operates between W 35 Street and Coney Island.

 

This is self-explanatory but some certain people need to be reminded:

This proposal is not nearly a finished plan, and I do not work for the MTA, so please do NOT let it offend you unnecessarily.

Edited December 31, 2015 by P3F

[Javier]

This one is short and simple:

 

We should have some rush hour trains run via 7th AV express do that customers don't have to switch at East 180 St between the and the .

[Union Tpke]

This one is short and simple:

 

We should have some rush hour trains run via 7th AV express do that customers don't have to switch at East 180 St between the and the .

 

I didn't know that the went to 180th. I think you should inform the MTA.

[Javier]

I meant .

[S78 via Hylan]

You can't give everyone a one-seat ride...

[Missabassie]

And to add to that, everyone doesn't need to. Or to phrase it differently, its not possible to give everyone a one-seat ride. Transferring isn't terribly fun, but it can help keep you fit.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Missabassi

[Train92]

This one is short and simple:

 

We should have some rush hour trains run via 7th AV express do that customers don't have to switch at East 180 St between the and the .

Wouldn't those   be extra  's

Edited January 2, 2016 by Train92

[RollOver]

Moving on. So I've decided to eliminate the off-peak express west of Myrtle-B'way. Really, both the and do not run very frequently during the off-peak anyway, and the is one of the least demanding lines in the system from my perspective. It is better off running local to avoid merging delays at both Essex St and Myrtle-B'way. The only interacts with the along its run, so just schedule them to come evenly apart or the in front of the in both directions between Myrtle-B'way and Essex St on the same track. This also allows any rider going to or from Lower Manhattan via the Nassau Street Line for a free connection at Lorimer St-B'way (in my world).