Cait Sith Posted January 29, 2016 Share #51 Posted January 29, 2016 Actually the X17 and X17J do have runs that overlap both in the morning and afternoon so it is safe to compare them during that time period which is exactly what I was doing Then you might want to look at this then, because they don't. The only overlap is during the tail end of the AM and PM rush hour when Cs start running and Js are finishing up. The x17 and x17J do not run in tangent during the Rush Hour, the A and J run in the rush hour, the C runs during the tail end of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 29, 2016 Share #52 Posted January 29, 2016 Then you might want to look at this then, because they don't. The only overlap is during the tail end of the AM and PM rush hour when Cs start running and Js are finishing up. The x17 and x17J do not run in tangent during the Rush Hour, the A and J run in the rush hour, the C runs during the tail end of it. But that's exactly what he's referring to. For example, why don't those last two Southbound X17C's (18:28 & the 18:38) start up at 40th and 5th since the X17J's are still running at that time? I never understood that set up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 30, 2016 Share #53 Posted January 30, 2016 Why even bother engaging in this side discussion about x17c's & j's when it's being compared to a fictional, unnecessary "Q27x" in the first place??? Anyway..... Those people that start using the M5 to head further south (that get on between 72nd & Columbus Circle), how far south do they usually go? How much use would the M7 be to them? (For northbound riders on 6th). The only (logical) reason I can think of for having the split at 37th/38th as opposed to Columbus Circle is for the sake of having a route from the northern portion of the UWS (meaning, north of 72nd) going in the general direction of East Midtown. Unless, like you said, they have more sinister intentions behind this. Of course, one of the other things that plays a role (especially in Manhattan bus service) is frequency. So even if you leave them with the M7 as their only direct option, a large chunk of those through-riders are probably going to go to the subway (or taxis). If that ridership base (from Columbus Circle going north towards the UWS/Washington Heights) is basically covered, how would it reduce ridership to the point where it can set them up for eliminating Riverside Drive service (serious question)? Well, the ones that get on around 72nd tend to ride it for shorter distances... I'd say those folks don't ride past midtown (past 34th)....The ones that get on @ CC, it's a whole new group of people (a lot of which come from off the subway).... These are the ones that will take buses all the way down to 23rd, or even the Astor pl. area.....The M7.... Sure they could (and do) use it.... But ever since they cut that route back from Union Sq., it's not nearly as useful as it used to be.... It would have to run east of its current terminal (6th/14th) to gain any popularity (back)..... This is going to sound kind of odd, but the M7 ends in the middle of nothing in-particular there.... I understand it was done to spare runtime/delays (which was a problem w/ that rendition of the route), but really, you're not routing anything by Union Sq. with the intent of avoiding delays.....I don't even want to know what the M7 is like along Amsterdam/Columbus these days..... Your other question at the end there.... It's not about reducing ridership, fam.... That riderbase in question (M5 segment b/w CC & Washington Hgts) is mainly Washington Heights (well, technically Manhattanville & Washington Hgts.) riders, with a sprinkle of UWS riders (along Riverside dr.) here & there, and to a greater extent, those taking M5's (interchangeably) b/w CC & 72nd-B'way.... * The CC - 72nd segment, the M7 & the M104 exists for that, so they'd use the old duplicative service, point.... * The 72nd - 135th segment (namely, Riverside drive segment) by itself, usage is real low (which is why I say it's not about reducing... because it's already low).... ^^ (QJT... "err", Lord, this answers your question btw....) * The 135th - GWB segment carries so much of the bulk of the riders, it isn't even funny.... Washington Hgts. riders tend to favor the M5 over the M4 (since the former is actually more... reliable for them!)... That said, I would not put it past the MTA to frugally hand this entire segment over to the M4... Which would likely mean an overall reduction in service on the M4 to/from Penn, since there would likely be more short turns throughout the day running b/w Cabrini Blvd & 135th.... This is what I think they're setting up for w/ the M4/M5... They had no business combining the M5/M6 - now they're forced to split that rendition of the M5 into two separate routes again... I'd like to compare this "M55" schedule to the old M6 schedule for shits & giggles..... Of course, the difference w/ the M6 & the northern-most part of the southern M5 split is that, at least the M6 went to 59th.... Only thing I never cared for w/ the M6 is that it terminated w/ the Hylan expresses, instead of running to CC.... I wish there were more Washington Hgts. patrons using the M5 past 3333 Broadway (W. 135th)...... Kind of like the way they (used to) use the M98 - before the MTA bastardized that route to end around Hunter coll.... Think I got to everything I wanted to say.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted January 30, 2016 Share #54 Posted January 30, 2016 Why even bother engaging in this side discussion about x17c's & j's when it's being compared to a fictional, unnecessary "Q27x" in the first place??? Anyway..... Well, the ones that get on around 72nd tend to ride it for shorter distances... I'd say those folks don't ride past midtown (past 34th).... The ones that get on @ CC, it's a whole new group of people (a lot of which come from off the subway).... These are the ones that will take buses all the way down to 23rd, or even the Astor pl. area..... The M7.... Sure they could (and do) use it.... But ever since they cut that route back from Union Sq., it's not nearly as useful as it used to be.... It would have to run east of its current terminal (6th/14th) to gain any popularity (back)..... This is going to sound kind of odd, but the M7 ends in the middle of nothing in-particular there.... I understand it was done to spare runtime/delays (which was a problem w/ that rendition of the route), but really, you're not routing anything by Union Sq. with the intent of avoiding delays..... I don't even want to know what the M7 is like along Amsterdam/Columbus these days..... Your other question at the end there.... It's not about reducing ridership, fam.... That riderbase in question (M5 segment b/w CC & Washington Hgts) is mainly Washington Heights (well, technically Manhattanville & Washington Hgts.) riders, with a sprinkle of UWS riders (along Riverside dr.) here & there, and to a greater extent, those taking M5's (interchangeably) b/w CC & 72nd-B'way.... * The CC - 72nd segment, the M7 & the M104 exists for that, so they'd use the old duplicative service, point.... * The 72nd - 135th segment (namely, Riverside drive segment) by itself, usage is real low (which is why I say it's not about reducing... because it's already low).... ^^ (QJT... "err", Lord, this answers your question btw....) * The 135th - GWB segment carries so much of the bulk of the riders, it isn't even funny.... Washington Hgts. riders tend to favor the M5 over the M4 (since the former is actually more... reliable for them!)... That said, I would not put it past the MTA to frugally hand this entire segment over to the M4... Which would likely mean an overall reduction in service on the M4 to/from Penn, since there would likely be more short turns throughout the day running b/w Cabrini Blvd & 135th.... This is what I think they're setting up for w/ the M4/M5... They had no business combining the M5/M6 - now they're forced to split that rendition of the M5 into two separate routes again... I'd like to compare this "M55" schedule to the old M6 schedule for shits & giggles..... Of course, the difference w/ the M6 & the northern-most part of the southern M5 split is that, at least the M6 went to 59th.... Only thing I never cared for w/ the M6 is that it terminated w/ the Hylan expresses, instead of running to CC.... I wish there were more Washington Hgts. patrons using the M5 past 3333 Broadway (W. 135th)...... Kind of like the way they (used to) use the M98 - before the MTA bastardized that route to end around Hunter coll.... Think I got to everything I wanted to say.... You also have the Whole Foods types like myself that would get the M5 by CC. That was one reason I was pissed when they cut the M104 to 42nd because it cut off East Side access to get to Midtown, which only left the M5. I don't go to that Whole Foods now unless I'm immediately getting the BxM2 back to Riverdale. The M5 is just too much of a PITA to deal with and I had the luck of always JUST missing one OR two as I was coming out with my Whole Foods bags. When BusTime became available, I would try to track the buses while I was on line and sometimes that worked better in me getting a bus quickly and not waiting, but sometimes it didn't because it was I would be annoyed knowing that I just missed 3 and would be waiting for a while and would be required to take another bus and walk to my destination or spend money out and get a taxi, which I generally care for doing after I've just spent $60 - 70 at Whole Foods. The idea is to save somewhere and that taxi ride could be a nice lunch delivery or something. I also agree about the M7. It was much more useful ending at Union Square despite the delays. It's a further walk from 6th and those who don't want to walk would be forced to wait for the M14, so it does indeed FORCE people to change where they go. I most certainly don't frequent certain places now and don't even think about it but these cut backs have me using the local buses a lot less now and I plan my commute around walking to my destination from the express bus as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FamousNYLover Posted January 30, 2016 Share #55 Posted January 30, 2016 From this month's Transit and Bus Committee Meeting Link here (starts on page 133) As previously mentioned, the M5 would be split back into two routes: New M5: Would operate between 178th St and around 37th St in Midtown M55: "New" route, would operate between 37th St in Midtown and South Ferry MTA's rationale for terminating both routes at the same point (37th St) is that a lack of available buses prevents a greater overlap between the two routes. M1: As part of the M5 split, alternate trips would be extended to Worth Street on weekdays, and every trip would be extended on weekends The MTA also plans to hold a public hearing on the M5 split, necessary whenever a route would be heavily altered Instead off introducing new M55 route, restore M6 and have M6 end there instead and have M6 operate via 5th-6th Avs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 30, 2016 Share #56 Posted January 30, 2016 Well, the ones that get on around 72nd tend to ride it for shorter distances... I'd say those folks don't ride past midtown (past 34th).... The ones that get on @ CC, it's a whole new group of people (a lot of which come from off the subway).... These are the ones that will take buses all the way down to 23rd, or even the Astor pl. area..... Your other question at the end there.... It's not about reducing ridership, fam.... That riderbase in question (M5 segment b/w CC & Washington Hgts) is mainly Washington Heights (well, technically Manhattanville & Washington Hgts.) riders, with a sprinkle of UWS riders (along Riverside dr.) here & there, and to a greater extent, those taking M5's (interchangeably) b/w CC & 72nd-B'way.... * The CC - 72nd segment, the M7 & the M104 exists for that, so they'd use the old duplicative service, point.... * The 72nd - 135th segment (namely, Riverside drive segment) by itself, usage is real low (which is why I say it's not about reducing... because it's already low).... ^^ (QJT... "err", Lord, this answers your question btw....) * The 135th - GWB segment carries so much of the bulk of the riders, it isn't even funny.... Washington Hgts. riders tend to favor the M5 over the M4 (since the former is actually more... reliable for them!)... That said, I would not put it past the MTA to frugally hand this entire segment over to the M4... Which would likely mean an overall reduction in service on the M4 to/from Penn, since there would likely be more short turns throughout the day running b/w Cabrini Blvd & 135th.... This is what I think they're setting up for w/ the M4/M5... They had no business combining the M5/M6 - now they're forced to split that rendition of the M5 into two separate routes again... I'd like to compare this "M55" schedule to the old M6 schedule for shits & giggles..... Of course, the difference w/ the M6 & the northern-most part of the southern M5 split is that, at least the M6 went to 59th.... Only thing I never cared for w/ the M6 is that it terminated w/ the Hylan expresses, instead of running to CC.... I wish there were more Washington Hgts. patrons using the M5 past 3333 Broadway (W. 135th)...... Kind of like the way they (used to) use the M98 - before the MTA bastardized that route to end around Hunter coll.... Think I got to everything I wanted to say.... Wow, that makes sense (unfortunately). I will say, anecdotally, I tend to see more M4s going northbound, and M5s going southbound (which makes sense, given where in the route I'm looking from, relative to the terminii of those routes). Instead off introducing new M55 route, restore M6 and have M6 end there instead and have M6 operate via 5th-6th Avs. Good, so now they can run crappy service on a route numbered M6 instead of M55. Talk about misplaced priorities SMH..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsaitamaboss Posted January 31, 2016 Share #57 Posted January 31, 2016 Instead off introducing new M55 route, restore M6 and have M6 end there instead and have M6 operate via 5th-6th Avs. M55 is the M6 buddy it is simply a number change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted February 1, 2016 Share #58 Posted February 1, 2016 Then you might want to look at this then, because they don't. The only overlap is during the tail end of the AM and PM rush hour when Cs start running and Js are finishing up. The x17 and x17J do not run in tangent during the Rush Hour, the A and J run in the rush hour, the C runs during the tail end of it. But that's exactly what he's referring to. For example, why don't those last two Southbound X17C's (18:28 & the 18:38) start up at 40th and 5th since the X17J's are still running at that time? I never understood that set up. Why even bother engaging in this side discussion about x17c's & j's when it's being compared to a fictional, unnecessary "Q27x" in the first place??? Yeah pretty much what was mentioned here we can compare the tail end and the beginning of each rush hour to see the difference between a X17C and X17J, its a very small difference in run time 5-15 min but... if you get on the J versions as compared to the C versions that run during the same time the X17J has many more riders than the X17C. That brings up the point on having a Q27X to relieve stress off the Q30. Most riders are trying to get to a subway station, Jamaica is much more popular because of the fact that riders feel that Q27 is slow and get backed up going in and out of Flushing due to traffic and crowds. So even though a Q27X running non-stop directly between QCC and Main, er... something around there, wouldn't be much faster, but instead it would be much more attractive getting them off buses which the nearby residents use and complain about because of all the college kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsaitamaboss Posted February 1, 2016 Share #59 Posted February 1, 2016 Yeah pretty much what was mentioned here we can compare the tail end and the beginning of each rush hour to see the difference between a X17C and X17J, its a very small difference in run time 5-15 min but... if you get on the J versions as compared to the C versions that run during the same time the X17J has many more riders than the X17C. That brings up the point on having a Q27X to relieve stress off the Q30. Most riders are trying to get to a subway station, Jamaica is much more popular because of the fact that riders feel that Q27 is slow and get backed up going in and out of Flushing due to traffic and crowds. So even though a Q27X running non-stop directly between QCC and Main, er... something around there, wouldn't be much faster, but instead it would be much more attractive getting them off buses which the nearby residents use and complain about because of all the college kids. So basically your load balancing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted February 1, 2016 Share #60 Posted February 1, 2016 So basically your load balancing? yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lordsaitamaboss Posted February 1, 2016 Share #61 Posted February 1, 2016 yeah Fair enough that is the purpose of LTD stop express service during times of greater demand but other times such service won't even be faster you get the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAlam Posted February 2, 2016 Share #62 Posted February 2, 2016 Fair enough that is the purpose of LTD stop express service during times of greater demand but other times such service won't even be faster you get the point. If its not faster (which actually not part of the main plan tbh. Doesn't matter too much because it looks attractive to most riders who aren't smart enough to realize it won't save time) It get college kids off the buses resident use, and these residents have been complaining about the students. So it a win for them and student get to enjoy their false illusion of a faster rider. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chenvinny54 Posted January 8, 2017 Share #63 Posted January 8, 2017 What's wrong with a slightly altered M6 route? Agreed the M5 is way to long. Also there's no northbound bus service in Lower Manhattan between M15,M103 and the M5 on 6th Ave so I can see why maybe they would reinstate M1 service south of 8th street.Or instead of your proposed M5, why don't you call it M6? M6 for Northbound service along 6 av to George Washington bridge, and M5 for downtown along 5 av to south ferry.Or maybe you think M5 and M55 could be better because what happens if M6 shown electronically is cut off, look like M5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78 via Stew Leonards Posted January 11, 2017 Share #64 Posted January 11, 2017 Once Upon A Time, the M1, M5 and M6 had great routes that made sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bstar1 Posted January 11, 2017 Share #65 Posted January 11, 2017 M1 was supposed to be extended to Worth St right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checkmatechamp13 Posted January 11, 2017 Share #66 Posted January 11, 2017 M1 was supposed to be extended to Worth St right? Next pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B35 via Church Posted January 21, 2017 Share #67 Posted January 21, 2017 M1 was supposed to be extended to Worth St right? Next pick. ....Which I think will catch on fairly quickly, being that the M103 is what it is... Also getting to the Broadway line, which has long been a concern for those folks on that side of Chinatown... Now let's see how much service they'll dedicate to the extension..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collagedchen300 Posted February 21, 2017 Share #68 Posted February 21, 2017 What's wrong with a slightly altered M6 route? Agreed the M5 is way to long. Also there's no northbound bus service in Lower Manhattan between M15,M103 and the M5 on 6th Ave so I can see why maybe they would reinstate M1 service south of 8th street.Agreed. Also, although the M101 runs limited, forget it. It is REALLY slow from its terminus to another. At least two hours everyday. This line needs to be split, maybe at 42 Street Grand Central Terminal, and let its Uptown service make all stops after 96 Street.Furthermore, I suggest M103 to be extended to South Ferry, but also needs to be split somewhere away from Harlem. This situation is like M5/55. How's that? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 21, 2017 Share #69 Posted February 21, 2017 Agreed. Also, although the M101 runs limited, forget it. It is REALLY slow from its terminus to another. At least two hours everyday. This line needs to be split, maybe at 42 Street Grand Central Terminal, and let its Uptown service make all stops after 96 Street. Furthermore, I suggest M103 to be extended to South Ferry, but also needs to be split somewhere away from Harlem. This situation is like M5/55. How's that? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk As long as Lexington Avenue remains a mess, I don't see the M101/M102/M103 improving. That's the real issue. There is just too much congestion along Lex caused by double and triple parking of delivery trucks. Basically from about 87th street down to 34th street that's all you have. The DOT along with the NYPD needs to become more aggressive with ticketing. The other thing that annoys the hell out of me are those Fresh Direct trucks that hog up all of the parking along Lex and just stay in the same spot all day. As long as that remains the same forget it. I suppose you could have more M101 buses short turned at 96th street, but what does that really solve? That just forces people onto the would either need the bus or prefer it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 21, 2017 Share #70 Posted February 21, 2017 Agreed. Also, although the M101 runs limited, forget it. It is REALLY slow from its terminus to another. At least two hours everyday. This line needs to be split, maybe at 42 Street Grand Central Terminal, and let its Uptown service make all stops after 96 Street. Furthermore, I suggest M103 to be extended to South Ferry, but also needs to be split somewhere away from Harlem. This situation is like M5/55. How's that? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk M103 to South Ferry?! Are you kidding me? The route is long enough with that crazy stint on Bowery/Park Row where buses easily lose 10-15 minutes of their trip times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collagedchen300 Posted February 21, 2017 Share #71 Posted February 21, 2017 M103 to South Ferry?! Are you kidding me? The route is long enough with that crazy stint on Bowery/Park Row where buses easily lose 10-15 minutes of their trip times.Not after M103 starts from Midtown. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 21, 2017 Share #72 Posted February 21, 2017 Not after M103 starts from Midtown. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk So what? Midtown where? The issue still remains congestion and the M103 loses a ton of time down along the Battery because of backup from the bridge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
collagedchen300 Posted February 21, 2017 Share #73 Posted February 21, 2017 So what? Midtown where? The issue still remains congestion and the M103 loses a ton of time down along the Battery because of backup from the bridge.Maybe from Grand central terminal but at 44 Street and Lex, just like M55 is short turned at 6 av and 44 street. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Around the Horn Posted February 21, 2017 Share #74 Posted February 21, 2017 Maybe from Grand central terminal but at 44 Street and Lex, just like M55 is short turned at 6 av and 44 street. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Unlike the M5, people actually do take the M103 from the UES south. This still doesn't change anything about the Bowery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Via Garibaldi 8 Posted February 21, 2017 Share #75 Posted February 21, 2017 Maybe from Grand central terminal but at 44 Street and Lex, just like M55 is short turned at 6 av and 44 street. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk They already do that unofficially.... Some buses start at 42nd and 3rd Northbound. Southbound, buses are often short-turned at 23rd street and it's a PITA. I used to take the BxM1 to 34th street and Lex and then switch to the M101/M102/M103 to go further south, and it is so annoying to be on a bus that is suddenly short-turned, and they'll have three buses do the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.