F Train Loses Power and AC For Almost One Hour - Desperate Riders Break Through Doors

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Then open the transom windows for ventilation, instead of futilely prying open a door... I mean does no one know that the windows open so you can at least get ventilation in the cars...

 

The windows were already open... Didn't make a difference.  Apparently they were pretty deep underground, and quite frankly, when you have that many people packed into a subway car with their body heat like that, the only time it helps having the windows open is when the train is MOVING, thus you can actually get some breeze coming through, otherwise the air is just stagnant.

[bstar1]

R46 and R68 are probably better used as a commuter rails and should've not been used as subway cars. R32/R42/R62/R142/R143/R160 are standard made subway cars.

[Around the Horn]

The windows were already open... Didn't make a difference.  Apparently they were pretty deep underground, and quite frankly, when you have that many people packed into a subway car with their body heat like that, the only time it helps having the windows open is when the train is MOVING, thus you can actually get some breeze coming through, otherwise the air is just stagnant.

 

Ah ok, I didn't see that. The images on social media made it look like they were closed.

 

These R179s and R211s can't come soon enough...

[N6 Limited]

Southbound

Ahh ok.

 

If it was an R160 people would've been on the tracks walking away by then. The R46s are a death trap. There is ZERO official way to escape a fire in a R46. None. All other metros on planet earth have handles to emergency open windows and doors, but NYC DOES NOT. Atleast with R160s/R32s 1 or 2 end doors are open, but R46s and R68s are murder/fire/get raped boxes. Some of you will argue R46/R68s are safer because bums and muggers can't walk in.

 

If I was on that train and it was a R160 I would have walked back to W4th Street or (Or forward to Broadway - Lafayette) and been on my way to wherever I was going.

[East New York]

I'm having a very difficult time with this because this is my worst fear in life.... Getting stuck in a train or in an elevator..... I think of the infamous blackout EVERYTIME I get on an elevator or train in this city....... I need an Asthma pump just thinking about all this.....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

I'm having a very difficult time with this because this is my worst fear in life.... Getting stuck in a train or in an elevator..... I think of the infamous blackout EVERYTIME I get on an elevator or train in this city....... I need an Asthma pump just thinking about all this.....

I have to be honest in saying that anytime I need to take the subway, I try to leave extra time to avoid getting on a packed train for this very reason.  I don't like hot weather and I don't like conditions where ventilation is lacking so I probably wouldn't have found myself on this train in the first place unless it wasn't that crowded.  I have no problem passing up a train if need be.  

[Deucey]

After my R46 fire experience at 207th, I deliberately avoid R46/R68 trains unless I have no choice because of the locked doors.

 

But after reading this, I wonder why doesn't seem to have a plan for stuck trains/evacuation protocols, or why it takes so damn long to initiate them.

[bulk88]

After my R46 fire experience at 207th, I deliberately avoid R46/R68 trains unless I have no choice because of the locked doors.

 

But after reading this, I wonder why doesn't seem to have a plan for stuck trains/evacuation protocols, or why it takes so damn long to initiate them.

AFAIK trackbed evac requires FDNY/paramedics on the train to remove on stretchers seniors and handicapped and obviously cutting 3rd rail power. Im not sure to what fineness the 3rd rail can be turned off. Is it one CB/switch for all 2/3/4 tracks between interlockings or can you pick 1 track, or for policy reasons all tracks on ROW must be cut for FDNY access not just the blocked track. If the train can't move, you can't do a 1st door on platform evac. I've considered buying a radio scanner and carrying it in my bag for incidents just like this. I'll guess time was wasted with dispatcher ordering the TO/CR walking the train to check if a 1st/last door evac can be done before sending any other staff (TSS/RCI). I found the PA annoucement to not break the R46 doors once at Broadway Lafayette because the disabled train has move AGAIN for a first door evac of the R160 behind us. 5 minutes later they just opened by electric controls (NOT MANUALLY) the side doors. Probably the staff realized the pax on inside and on platform will kick out the side doors and cause a door light and the train wont move anyways.

 

No NYPD or FDNY on the platform at Bway Lafayette. Incident was handled entirely in-house with no call-for-service, maybe intentionally.

[biGC323232]

I have to be honest in saying that anytime I need to take the subway, I try to leave extra time to avoid getting on a packed train for this very reason.  I don't like hot weather and I don't like conditions where ventilation is lacking so I probably wouldn't have found myself on this train in the first place unless it wasn't that crowded.  I have no problem passing up a train if need be.  

Im the same way in a sense....I have to be really in a rush(which is not that often) to board a extremely packed train....Not for just yesterdays reason but in case a fight or something breaks out....

[N6 Limited]

AFAIK trackbed evac requires FDNY/paramedics on the train to remove on stretchers seniors and handicapped and obviously cutting 3rd rail power. Im not sure to what fineness the 3rd rail can be turned off. Is it one CB/switch for all 2/3/4 tracks between interlockings or can you pick 1 track, or for policy reasons all tracks on ROW must be cut for FDNY access not just the blocked track. If the train can't move, you can't do a 1st door on platform evac. I've considered buying a radio scanner and carrying it in my bag for incidents just like this. I'll guess time was wasted with dispatcher ordering the TO/CR walking the train to check if a 1st/last door evac can be done before sending any other staff (TSS/RCI). I found the PA annoucement to not break the R46 doors once at Broadway Lafayette because the disabled train has move AGAIN for a first door evac of the R160 behind us. 5 minutes later they just opened by electric controls (NOT MANUALLY) the side doors. Probably the staff realized the pax on inside and on platform will kick out the side doors and cause a door light and the train wont move anyways.

 

No NYPD or FDNY on the platform at Bway Lafayette. Incident was handled entirely in-house with no call-for-service, maybe intentionally.

I wonder if the MTA is charged for each FDNY response?

[Fresh Pond]

They should find way to unlock the end doors during emergencies.

In case of fire emergency, the result would be horrible if the end doors keep locked.....

The doors can be unlocked all at once from any cab

[Deucey]

The doors can be unlocked all at once from any cab

Didn't happen on the I was stuck on at 207th because of a track fire. Conductor, after yelling at us via PA, finally came and used the key to unlock.

[N6 Limited]

Speaking of which, MTA is also going to order more 75ft cars?

[B3 Via Av U]

Speaking of which, MTA is also going to order more 75ft cars?

Hell no. I think the MTA has learned their lesson from the 75-footers.

 

This latest episode embodies the fact that the MTA is currently, for lack of a better phrase, waist-deep in shit. Deferred maintenance and a lot of "we'll-eventually-get-this-done" over the years is coming back to bite the MTA's ass, as the signal and power systems start giving up due to their age.

 

Hell, if I were on that train, as soon as the battery power kicked the bucket I would have popped out the end door window, reached for the switch, and gotten the hell out of there, because I would not waste my time and risk my health and safety dealing with the MTA's bureaucratic bullshit.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Then open the transom windows for ventilation, instead of futilely prying open a door... I mean does no one know that the windows open so you can at least get ventilation in the cars...

 

 

And boy those R46s need to go ASAP, complete trash...

 

Yup, this proves it. The R46s are shit...

Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to install emergency handles in the R46 instead of canning the whole fleet?

[Around the Horn]

Wouldn't it be simpler and cheaper to install emergency handles in the R46 instead of canning the whole fleet?

 

With them retiring in 3-6 years anyway, no.

[N6 Limited]

Im the same way in a sense....I have to be really in a rush(which is not that often) to board a extremely packed train....Not for just yesterdays reason but in case a fight or something breaks out....

The & are notorious for having gaps in service on 6th Ave and when the first uptown train arrives, being super packed between upper 6th Ave and 59th street, only to be relieved then re-packed to 125th street. 

 

If it's a you can pack on and catch an at 59th street.

If it's a you can catch a at 59th or 125th st

 

It's all strategy. However, like you said, you don't want to be trapped on one of those trains.

 

Hell no. I think the MTA has learned their lesson from the 75-footers.

 

This latest episode embodies the fact that the MTA is currently, for lack of a better phrase, waist-deep in shit. Deferred maintenance and a lot of "we'll-eventually-get-this-done" over the years is coming back to bite the MTA's ass, as the signal and power systems start giving up due to their age.

 

Hell, if I were on that train, as soon as the battery power kicked the bucket I would have popped out the end door window, reached for the switch, and gotten the hell out of there, because I would not waste my time and risk my health and safety dealing with the MTA's bureaucratic bullshit.

I remember someone on here mentioning last year that the MTA is going back to ordering 75 footers again because it's cheaper to buy eight 75 foot cars as opposed to ten 60 foot cars.

[Around the Horn]

I remember someone on here mentioning last year that the MTA is going back to ordering 75 footers again because it's cheaper to buy eight 75 foot cars as opposed to ten 60 foot cars.

 

That's the original reasoning for the 75 foot cars. The entire R211 order is 60 foot cars so when they arrive, the entire system will be 60 foot cars except for the R68/A.

[ttcsubwayfan]

With them retiring in 3-6 years anyway, no.

How would you deal with the problem on R68s then?

[Around the Horn]

How would you deal with the problem on R68s then?

I would retrofit those cars definitely.

[Daniel The Cool]

 

I remember someone on here mentioning last year that the MTA is going back to ordering 75 footers again because it's cheaper to buy eight 75 foot cars as opposed to ten 60 foot cars.

Thats not true at all. The MTA said they're not going back to 75 footers because ten 60 foot cars holds more passengers then eight 75 foot cars.

[bobtehpanda]

The doors can be unlocked all at once from any cab

 

Presumably, if the train has lost power this no longer works, correct?

[Gong Gahou]

I remember someone on here mentioning last year that the MTA is going back to ordering 75 footers again because it's cheaper to buy eight 75 foot cars as opposed to ten 60 foot cars.

That was just speculation. They didn't make a decision at that time; the MTA was only considering the idea for reasons such as cost savings.

 

...ten 60 foot cars holds more passengers then eight 75 foot cars.

Just want to point out that this is not correct; assuming all other things are equal, 75-foot cars will hold more passengers than 60-foot cars - whether the train is 300 or 600 feet long - simply because there is less inhabitable space (i.e. the space between cars).

[Trainmaster5]

I've read about the incident a few times and I'm forced to shake my head in dismay. Since I wasn't on the scene I have to take the media's account into consideration. Maybe an active RTO employee can fill in the details but here's my take on the incident. To me everything that was done in the immediate aftermath of the train malfunction was poor.IIRC after informing the RCC of the problem the passengers are to be informed of the situation immediately and every few minutes ( 2?) thereafter. They should also be informed of what steps are being taken to remedy the problem. I don't think there has to be a specific time given but you don't leave the passengers in the dark either. From what I've read the train crews actions left a lot to be desired and I'm not willing to let them off the hook. I do wonder what the RCC told the train crew to do while the train was immobile. We were taught to walk to each car in the consist and convey the pertinent information to the riders. In a power off situation that is critical to avoid creating a panic situation. That doesn't appear to be the case according to press reports and, it appears, one poster who claimed to be on the scene. There was a great deal of speculation involved with that and some other posters so I won't get into it too deeply. Unless you are an active RTO employee familiar with the operation of the equipment at the crux of this problem I take much of what was said lightly. I think the post by Lance summed up the failures of the crew and the RCC correctly. I do have a beef with some posters responses. I'm speaking of those who advocated taking matters into their own hands and doing a "self evacuation". I hope I never have to share a foxhole with you folks, lol. First Class Panic, wow. If everything was reported correctly it appears that this was the only train with a problem. Ladies and Gents be aware that once you leave that train, even though it's immobile, and are seen walking the benchwall power will be shut off to all tracks in the area so all trains in the area from West Fourth to Broadway-Lafayette come to a stop and you've created a far greater problem. Quiet as it's kept there's something in the back of my mind suggesting that's one of the reasons the train crew didn't open the storm doors or key a door open as they were supposed to if they followed protocol or were told not to do so. As I said before I wasn't present but the blame rests squarely with the crew, the on scene supervisor(s), and the RCC. BTW there used to be RTO supervisors and Car Equipment people stationed at West Fourth Street 24/7 but I guess that isn't the case any more. Just my take though. Carry on.

[BreeddekalbL]

supposedly i heard in media that people were told it was train traffic ahead