OMNY Implementation/Metro-Card Retirement Discussion Thread

[mikecintel]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

 

 

 

I needed to reload my card today while I was out and thought it was just because I was using my phone, but yeah, the change must've happened a few days ago. Pretty annoying.  I put enough for about six express bus rides.  Normally I just put enough for three or so rides, since I only use transit now once or twice a week max.  

They must be getting too many processing fees from people loading a $dollar or two on the card.  $5.50 represents two rides on the local bus or subway.

I see.  Ahhh that can be reason why they raise the reload amount and there are "processing fees" using a credit or a debit card.  I didn't think of that.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

I see.  Ahhh that can be reason why they raise the reload amount and there are "processing fees" using a credit or a debit card.  I didn't think of that.

I'm pretty sure that the  gets charged a lower rate (processing fee rate) for each transaction because of the volume that they do, but if they are processing lots of transactions that are just $1.00 or whatever people are reloading with, that can be cost prohibitive, and eventually you start paying out more than you're taking in. That is something that has to be watched, be it a business or a public agency like the to mitigate overhead costs. There are a few ways to handle this problem: 

Raise the minimum card transaction to ensure that the processing fees aren't becoming cost prohibitive, or renegotiate the processing fees with the card processors (unlikely if they have an agreement in place) or charge different fees depending on the which payments company is used (the fees vary between say Visa, Mastercard, Discover, Amex, etc. and Amex has generally always charged the highest processing fees, but that is usually offset by the fact the Amex customers tend to spend more money). Some places do just that, or they don't accept say American Express at all since their processing fees are the highest. 

One thing to keep in mind... There are no passes yet for OMNY, so I am sure that is depressing the amount of the transactions considerably. Maybe they will change the minimum again once OMNY has pass options, but maybe not, since fewer commuters use passes now, meaning each transaction tends to be for a smaller amount compared to pre-COVID.

Edited March 11, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

On 3/10/2023 at 5:46 PM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They must be getting too many processing fees from people loading a $dollar or two on the card.  $5.50 represents two rides on the local bus or subway.

I remember reading in the specs or other documents that batching transactions would be a feature to reduce swipe fees, along with negotiating with card networks. In theory this should extend to the website but based on this change, guess not. 

Speaking of batching, I used my phone instead of my OMNY card for a SBS trip and was not charged until early the next morning despite the trip posting on the OMNY site real time. I wonder if all contactless transactions are now being batched and aggregated as described above. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, RestrictOnTheHanger said:

I remember reading in the specs or other documents that batching transactions would be a feature to reduce swipe fees, along with negotiating with card networks. In theory this should extend to the website but based on this change, guess not. 

Speaking of batching, I used my phone instead of my OMNY card for a SBS trip and was not charged until early the next morning despite the trip posting on the OMNY site real time. I wonder if all contactless transactions are now being batched and aggregated as described above. 

I'm sure they are trying all sorts of things to keep those fees down. They need all the help they can get because aside from this issue, there are so many OMNY readers that are busted. They're either frozen where they stay on the intro screen, but don't react when anyone tries to tap, "NOT IN SERVICE" or just off. lol To show you how bad it is now, I still find myself getting one or two free rides a month due to busted readers and I only use public transit a few times week or less.  This is in addition to me usually paying just $6.75 round trip, as I set up my trips to where I take one express bus in and then walk, run my errands and then take another bus back or whatever or there are times when I don't even bother taking the bus back. I grab an Uber home, as was the case the other day.  I wonder how much money they are losing between people not using passes, work-from-home, broken OMNY readers, etc.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Via Garibaldi 8

[mikecintel]

I just lost my physical OMNY card 2x. Yes 2x!  The 1st one was I thinking going to Costco and when I checking out it  "dropped" out of my pocket and I didn't hear anything.  The 2nd time was yesterday March 14, 2023 and it was in my pocket again.  I don't put my phone in my pocket where my OMNY card is but for some reason I did that. When I got to Bryant Park I took my phone out to see if when my train will arrived. Then when I get to Brooklyn and take the bus to work and I need to take out my OMNY card it is gone then I realize that I dropped when I took out my phone to see the train schedule.  I went to 7 eleven at Brighton Beach to see if there were OMNY card and it is SOLD OUT.  Went to Walgreens across the street and it is SOLD OUT.  WOW are they selling like hot cakes? Anyway I am going back to the Metro Card for now because I can't "claim" like the Metro Card if I paid with my credit card from the vending machine and I lost it I can call MTA to refund my metro card amount or how many days I have left for the unlimited card. 

My question is will the MTA when they release the OMNY vending machines and you pay the with credit card will they let you "claim" again like oh you lost it so refund you the lost OMNY card.  I will stick with the old Metro Card until it phases out Sigh. I really do like OMNY but if I lose my OMNY card I have to keep paying $6 to the MTA.  So now I would end up paying $18 to the MTA now if I did purchase a 3rd OMNY card now.  I will wait.  I don't like to put OMNY card virtually on my phone because I don't know what gets transferred to the MTA.  All my contacts are on my phone.  I can't wait until the last week of March and the meeting will be on 27th and 29th for the general meeting and it will be on OMNY.  After March we will have to wait for 6th months until October 2023 for another OMNY meeting ugh.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

19 minutes ago, mikecintel said:

I just lost my physical OMNY card 2x. Yes 2x!  The 1st one was I thinking going to Costco and when I checking out it  "dropped" out of my pocket and I didn't hear anything.  The 2nd time was yesterday March 14, 2023 and it was in my pocket again.  I don't put my phone in my pocket where my OMNY card is but for some reason I did that. When I got to Bryant Park I took my phone out to see if when my train will arrived. Then when I get to Brooklyn and take the bus to work and I need to take out my OMNY card it is gone then I realize that I dropped when I took out my phone to see the train schedule.  I went to 7 eleven at Brighton Beach to see if there were OMNY card and it is SOLD OUT.  Went to Walgreens across the street and it is SOLD OUT.  WOW are they selling like hot cakes? Anyway I am going back to the Metro Card for now because I can't "claim" like the Metro Card if I paid with my credit card from the vending machine and I lost it I can call MTA to refund my metro card amount or how many days I have left for the unlimited card. 

My question is will the MTA when they release the OMNY vending machines and you pay the with credit card will they let you "claim" again like oh you lost it so refund you the lost OMNY card.  I will stick with the old Metro Card until it phases out Sigh. I really do like OMNY but if I lose my OMNY card I have to keep paying $6 to the MTA.  So now I would end up paying $18 to the MTA now if I did purchase a 3rd OMNY card now.  I will wait.  I don't like to put OMNY card virtually on my phone because I don't know what gets transferred to the MTA.  All my contacts are on my phone.  I can't wait until the last week of March and the meeting will be on 27th and 29th for the general meeting and it will be on OMNY.  After March we will have to wait for 6th months until October 2023 for another OMNY meeting ugh.

You can get a new OMNY card and OMNY can put your balance from the old card onto the new one.  I'm pretty sure you have your OMNY card linked to your OMNY account online, no? If so then OMNY can see the card.  I would call them and alert them accordingly.

[mikecintel]

31 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You can get a new OMNY card and OMNY can put your balance from the old card onto the new one.  I'm pretty sure you have your OMNY card linked to your OMNY account online, no? If so then OMNY can see the card.  I would call them and alert them accordingly.

Hi,

Yes I do have it linked to my OMNY account online and yes the one I just lost has money on the old card and when I get the new card I can transfer the balance from the old to the new card.  That is not the problem.  The problem is if I "lose" another OMNY card the 3rd one and I have to purchase another OMNY card then I would have to pay the $6 again for the new card and that adds up as you know. E.G 6+6+6+6 = $24. $5 to purchase card and $1 for activation so that makes it $6 to purchase a card. 

As a matter of fact I did call OMNY yesterday and tell the rep my situation that I lost the card and I suspended the card and I said when I purchase the 3rd card I already have paid the MTA a total of $18.00 already and she said I am so sorry and I do apologize  for this that when you lost a card or you have a stolen card you will have to get a new card and add $1 minimum and it becomes $6 and I am sorry to hear that you lost your card. 

I said to the rep can't the MTA have people to make a "deposit" where you deposit $6 and when you don't need the card you can refund the $6 back to the customer and they will return the card. Then what the rep told me that when everything is finalized "thing will change and that is what the MTA told the rep which is us.  I said oh so they are going to change the rules and she said yes and I said do you know what they will change and will they require deposit and the rep they didn't tell us except they only said that things will change when everything is finalized.  So when I head that from the Rep I said to myself I am going back to the unlimited Metro Card for now until they phase out because things will change again.  I do not want to give the MTA $6 if I keep losing the card if you know what I mean.  My intention is NOT to keep losing the OMNY card but things happen accidentally as you know.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 hour ago, mikecintel said:

Hi,

Yes I do have it linked to my OMNY account online and yes the one I just lost has money on the old card and when I get the new card I can transfer the balance from the old to the new card.  That is not the problem.  The problem is if I "lose" another OMNY card the 3rd one and I have to purchase another OMNY card then I would have to pay the $6 again for the new card and that adds up as you know. E.G 6+6+6+6 = $24. $5 to purchase card and $1 for activation so that makes it $6 to purchase a card. 

As a matter of fact I did call OMNY yesterday and tell the rep my situation that I lost the card and I suspended the card and I said when I purchase the 3rd card I already have paid the MTA a total of $18.00 already and she said I am so sorry and I do apologize  for this that when you lost a card or you have a stolen card you will have to get a new card and add $1 minimum and it becomes $6 and I am sorry to hear that you lost your card. 

I said to the rep can't the MTA have people to make a "deposit" where you deposit $6 and when you don't need the card you can refund the $6 back to the customer and they will return the card. Then what the rep told me that when everything is finalized "thing will change and that is what the MTA told the rep which is us.  I said oh so they are going to change the rules and she said yes and I said do you know what they will change and will they require deposit and the rep they didn't tell us except they only said that things will change when everything is finalized.  So when I head that from the Rep I said to myself I am going back to the unlimited Metro Card for now until they phase out because things will change again.  I do not want to give the MTA $6 if I keep losing the card if you know what I mean.  My intention is NOT to keep losing the OMNY card but things happen accidentally as you know.

I can't speak for the , but I can say that I have heard that the upfront cost of the OMNY card has been a discussion and a concern, because it is expensive for some people.  $5.00 for the purchase of the card +$1.00 to load it over the course of seven years (which is when the OMNY card expires) is pretty cheap, but because there have been complaints, they may revisit the cost structure.  

[mikecintel]

7 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

I can't speak for the , but I can say that I have heard that the upfront cost of the OMNY card has been a discussion and a concern, because it is expensive for some people.  $5.00 for the purchase of the card +$1.00 to load it over the course of seven years (which is when the OMNY card expires) is pretty cheap, but because there have been complaints, they may revisit the cost structure.  

Yes I agree with you it is cheap BUT if you lose the OMNY card like me accidentally it really adds up so it does not matter when it expires if you keep loosing the card.  If you got the OMNY card and "never lose it" and it expires 7 years then it is a different story.  OK sounds good that the MTA will revisit the cost structure.  I am looking forward to what they say when we have the vending machine in place to purchase the OMNY card. For me now temporary I will go back to my Metro Card unlimited and I will wait.  I mean I tried OMNY last and I really like it like I said before. Not complaining OMNY is bad and yes I know OMNY has kicks but it is still way better then the Metro Card.

[mikecintel]

UPDATE: 3/24/23

I just went to the MTA website for the meeting that will be taken on Monday March 27,2023 to see what is new with CPC (Capital Program Committee) and it doesn't say anything about OMNY like they were suppose too.  RATS! I was looking forward because they said in March they are going to talk about OMNY and It is being DELAYED until next month April....Oh well will have to wait next month.

[7-express]

Well there's some OMNY news but not great news: https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/mtas-new-omny-system-faces-more-delays/

Basically full implementation has been pushed back to late 2025 now due to issues with commuter rail integration.

[mikecintel]

9 hours ago, 7-express said:

Well there's some OMNY news but not great news: https://nypost.com/2023/03/29/mtas-new-omny-system-faces-more-delays/

Basically full implementation has been pushed back to late 2025 now due to issues with commuter rail integration.

WOW! OK thanks for the update.  Then if it is delayed I think they will delay the Metro Card phase out now until 2025.  Thanks for the update but then next they will talk about OMNY and I think we will get the full story of it.

[7-express]

2 hours ago, mikecintel said:

WOW! OK thanks for the update.  Then if it is delayed I think they will delay the Metro Card phase out now until 2025.  Thanks for the update but then next they will talk about OMNY and I think we will get the full story of it.

I honestly have no idea if the MetroCard will ever be fully phased out at this point since it seems like other organizations will be stuck with it and there seems to be no cohesive plan to get them to migrate (Roosevelt Island, PANYNJ, Bee-Line, NICE)

[mikecintel]

9 minutes ago, 7-express said:

I honestly have no idea if the MetroCard will ever be fully phased out at this point since it seems like other organizations will be stuck with it and there seems to be no cohesive plan to get them to migrate (Roosevelt Island, PANYNJ, Bee-Line, NICE)

Yes....well we will see what happens next moth when there is a meeting.

[Amtrak41]

So they don't integrate with commuter rail. Not necessary. They won't give out discounts, will not take the revenue hit. if it means commuter rail passengers will always have to tap out at stations like on SEPTA, that won't be tolerated here. People are running for their cars and last two taxis, don't want to queue up while people fumble with their phones and OMNY or bank cards like at a a  toll booth. 

[Chris89292]

13 hours ago, mikecintel said:

WOW! OK thanks for the update.  Then if it is delayed I think they will delay the Metro Card phase out now until 2025.  Thanks for the update but then next they will talk about OMNY and I think we will get the full story of it.

Not really, if the problem is taking place on the MNR and LIRR, it doesn’t affect the subways, we may get full implementation but OMNY won’t be fully implemented as a whole

Edited March 31, 2023 by Chris89292

[mikecintel]

11 hours ago, Chris89292 said:

Not really, if the problem is taking place on the MNR and LIRR, it doesn’t affect the subways, we may get full implementation but OMNY won’t be fully implemented as a whole

Yes that true I forgot about that.  There separate systems.  Yes we "may" get full implementations.  Let's see what happens next month when they have the meeting.  Looking forward to next week meeting.

[QM1to6Ave]

One of my coworkers today was telling me how shocked he was that the AriTrain doesn't accept OMNY or any contactless credit cards, and the lines for the MVMs were so long that the staff just opened the gates for everyone to prevent overcrowding. It seems like it should be relatively simple to apply the Cubic readers to the AirTrain gates, but this is the MTA we are talking about...

[Lex]

8 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

One of my coworkers today was telling me how shocked he was that the AriTrain doesn't accept OMNY or any contactless credit cards, and the lines for the MVMs were so long that the staff just opened the gates for everyone to prevent overcrowding. It seems like it should be relatively simple to apply the Cubic readers to the AirTrain gates, but this is the MTA we are talking about...

Not all transportation in NYC is owned or operated by the MTA.

[N6 Limited]

13 hours ago, QM1to6Ave said:

One of my coworkers today was telling me how shocked he was that the AriTrain doesn't accept OMNY or any contactless credit cards, and the lines for the MVMs were so long that the staff just opened the gates for everyone to prevent overcrowding. It seems like it should be relatively simple to apply the Cubic readers to the AirTrain gates, but this is the MTA we are talking about...

The Port Authority runs the JFK Air Train, they are also contracted with Cubic to have their own OMNY-like fare payment system. So, they will probably have one system for PATH and JFK Airtrain, possibly the Newark Airport Airtrain as well, once the PATH is extended there, at which point they may also accept actual OMNY fare cards for convenience.

From a basic perspective, if the new PANYNJ system takes contactless bank cards, then there appears to be no reason to integrate with OMNY and pay the MTA any fees for the privilege. Unless, they work together to come up with new joint-fare options/discounts.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

I don't understand. What is stopping the MTA from turning on the rear door OMNY readers!? 

People enter throught the back anyway and especially when the bus is late or packed..

Atleast with the OMNY readers turned on in the rear, there will be more of a chance that people will use it..

[mikecintel]

5 minutes ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

I don't understand. What is stopping the MTA from turning on the rear door OMNY readers!? 

People enter throught the back anyway and especially when the bus is late or packed..

Atleast with the OMNY readers turned on in the rear, there will be more of a chance that people will use it..

I guess when everything is OMNY implemented like with the LIRR and the MNR then they will turn it on.  They keep on saying "fare evasion" is the cause of it and that and when is why they are opening the rear doors and also turning on OMNY readers from that last time I heard.

[Chris89292]

Any OMNY machine updates? I heard they would be installed somewhere around September of this year

Edited April 6, 2023 by Chris89292

[mikecintel]

39 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

Any OMNY machine updates? I heard they would be installed somewhere around September of this year

No unfortunately there are No OMNY machines updates.  Let see in 3 weeks when they have the meeting and they will talk about OMNY if they will show us the design of the OMNY machines.  I am interested in that.  Meeting will be on April 24 and 26.

[mikecintel]

Hi Everyone,

FINALLY! they posted the CPC for April and it talks about OMNY and Vending machine installation and FULL ROLL OUT date.  The link is here :https://new.mta.info/document/109166

It start's on page 39 and ends on Page 46.  There are no pictures RATS! I though there will be pictures for the OMNY Vending machines.  Oh well!   I will paste bits and pieces from the document that I think are relevant and on topic.

MTA Board & Capital Program Committee Update
New Fare Payment System (NFPS) / OMNY
April 2023

Upcoming Major Activities for 2Q 2023:
• Launch pilot for the OMNY B2B portal with two transit benefit providers
• Launch pilot for Paratransit with the new AAR ID card and OMNY payment method
• Re-baselined NFPS project schedule for NYCT and Affiliate deliverables
• Begin rollout of OMNY vending machines for NYCT

Completed work
Subway and Bus validator installations and Open Payment rollout.
Fare Capping.
Paratransit (to be deployed).
Reduced Fare (deployed for open payment customers).

Remaining work
CVM / ORS status:
QA testing in contractor facility in February 2023.
Defects found and are being corrected.
Stage Testing in MTA facility planned in April 2023.
Correction of defects is progressing, and it is the IEC’s opinion that this
date can be met.
CVM Installation planned to start in June 2023 in limited number of stations,
followed by full rollout in August 2023 to complete installation by October
2024. (I think that the use of Metro Card will be really phased out by October-November 2024 based on when the Vending machine will be completed installed on all subway stations)
OMNY Mobile App.
Planned to rollout with full functionality, with rollout schedule under discussion.
IEC forecasts NYCT work will be completed in 4Q 2024 per current CVM
installation plan, however the numerous change orders which are still to be
negotiated may impact the completion date.
Remaining work (Commuter Railroads)
Railroad Mobile Ticketing, CVM, Ticket Office Machine (TOM), and ORS are
remaining.
Contractor’s schedule is under review as part of a re-baselining by C&D which
will include impact of change orders.

It did not say when it will send senior citizens the Physical OMNY Reduce Fare Card.  I though they would write that in the booklet. The NEXT OMNY Update will be in October 2023 and also in 2024 there will be an OMNY update again in April 2024.

Edited April 21, 2023 by mikecintel