Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Future ENY OP]

15 hours ago, Kingjunior34 said:

THE ROCKAWAY PARKWAY AREA IS A MESS BUSES ARE STUCK FOR MORE THAN 15 IN THE AREA

with buses switching drivers ,Traffic,confusion,and construction it’s terrible 

Good luck and it won’t get better with the construction on Glenwood and the  train mass project. I feel bad for East New York and Ulmer Park drivers who have to terminate at Rockaway. 

[Brillant93]

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Good luck and it won’t get better with the construction on Glenwood and the  train mass project. I feel bad for East New York and Ulmer Park drivers who have to terminate at Rockaway. 

That area isn’t meant for that kind of traffic or even buses to terminate. I said it before that terminal was made for trolleys not buses. I wonder if they would be finish before the B82 sbs launches. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Don't expect any SBS enhancements if the  carries through with their cost cutting plan.  Here they are saying that they plan to be "aggressive" to improve bus service and then they turn around and basically halt SBS expansion and look to cut service even more.  

Quote

The Metropolitan Transportation Authority plans to stop expanding a bus rapid-transit service, reduce bus fare-evasion patrols and cut dozens of positions for subway car cleaning as it seeks $562 million in cost reductions during the next few years.

Some of the budget reductions didn’t raise objections from board members. For example, the MTA expects to save $4 million annually by eliminating overtime payments to the New York Police Department for extra fare-evasion patrols. The NYPD recently relaxed its enforcement of fare-beaters, opting to issue summonses instead of make arrests in most cases.

The expected expansion of bus rapid transit, known as select bus service, would have been a boon to people in the Bronx, Queens and Brooklyn, especially those living in so-called transit deserts.

The MTA doesn’t intend to add five new routes previously planned through 2021 while the authority re-evaluates the entire bus network as part of a systemwide overhaul, according to an MTA spokesman.

The MTA believes it would save $28 million through 2022 by postponing the expansion, according to the preliminary budget. Officials estimate they could save a further $2.4 million annually by reducing staffing for fare-beating patrols on select bus service routes.

 

[paulrivera]

On 8/13/2018 at 6:26 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

That's not the case. The majority of riders use PPR cards.

In any case, the official policy is that the local B/Os should accept the SBS tickets, so in either case, they should be buying one anyway.

I've seen local B/O's that go after people that have SBS tickets, yet they don't go after an actual farebeater...

Complete oxymoron I know, but this happens quite often in MaBSTOA land...

[Brillant93]

23 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Don't expect any SBS enhancements if the  carries through with their cost cutting plan.  Here they are saying that they plan to be "aggressive" to improve bus service and then they turn around and basically halt SBS expansion and look to cut service even more.  

 

Part of the reason why they are halting sbs is because of the bus network redesign. So let’s say a bus route is a potential route for sbs and it gets redesigned for the network that would be a waste of money and outreach for that route as the redesigned network will include outreach for each bourough and community. But I agree that them cutting fare beating patrols is stupid. So many people especially young kids fare best because they don’t care. But when the fare raise they want to complain. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Part of the reason why they are halting sbs is because of the bus network redesign. So let’s say a bus route is a potential route for sbs and it gets redesigned for the network that would be a waste of money and outreach for that route as the redesigned network will include outreach for each bourough and community. But I agree that them cutting fare beating patrols is stupid. So many people especially young kids fare best because they don’t care. But when the fare raise they want to complain. 

That's a poor excuse because they've been implementing some changes that they're calling part of their "bus re-design" so keep doing it.  Scrapping it and waiting for the redesign when the bus network is hemorrhaging riders is just stupid. 

[B35 via Church]

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 10:37 AM, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

On a side note, speaking of SBS, something that irks me to no end is how people will stand and wait until the very last minute until they see the bus coming and then there's the mad dash to get the ticket.  I don't get it. I thought the majority of riders use unlimited cards, especially for the Crosstown routes or they are transferring anyway most of the time, so it doesn't make any sense to me.

Those are people that are waiting to see if an SBS arrives before a local (or vice versa).... I did that at WBP about 2 weeks or ago (albeit b/w seeing if the B46 (local) would go in service before the B44 SBS, as opposed to SBS vs a local on the same route)....

On ‎8‎/‎13‎/‎2018 at 6:26 PM, checkmatechamp13 said:

In any case, the official policy is that the local B/Os should accept the SBS tickets, so in either case, they should be buying one anyway.

...and in actuality, b/o's on local routes tend to give pax a hard time about accepting SBS tickets.

I avoid that hassle & I don't blame people that scurry to get an SBS ticket (if an SBS is arriving first) at the last minute; shouldn't have to be the case though.....

Edited August 15, 2018 by B35 via Church

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, B35 via Church said:

Those are people that are waiting to see if an SBS arrives before a local (or vice versa).... I did that at WBP about 2 weeks or ago (albeit b/w seeing if the B46 (local) would go in service before the B44 SBS, as opposed to SBS vs a local on the same route)....

Those I get, but I've seen it on SBS only routes as well.  Perhaps they wait and if nothing comes these types will jump in a cab and thus don't want to pay the $2.75 in advance. That's the only thing I can think of.

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

That's a poor excuse because they've been implementing some changes that they're calling part of their "bus re-design" so keep doing it.  Scrapping it and waiting for the redesign when the bus network is hemorrhaging riders is just stupid. 

It sounds like they had picked five routes already to do it (there is a shortlist of routes that are considered for SBS services), but since we have no idea if those routes will continue to exist in their current form, they are hitting the pause button. It would be kind of dumb to spend millions in utility work and stuff to not end up using it later.

I would also, as part of the redesign efforts, like to see a little bit of decoupling of improvements from the SBS brand. Why should only SBS have bus lanes, or transit signal priority, or off-board payments? As an example, why not move all bus routes in and out of major transit hubs to off-board payments heading outbound, like in Jamaica, or Flushing, or Brooklyn College? Why not have bus lanes for streets with a lot of routes that aren't SBS? Hillside Av for example has the Q1,2,3,17,36,43, the X68, and the N1,N6,N22,N24,N26. Why not have bus lanes down the length of Queens Boulevard and the Queensboro for the express buses? etc.

[Union Tpke]

1 hour ago, bobtehpanda said:

It sounds like they had picked five routes already to do it (there is a shortlist of routes that are considered for SBS services), but since we have no idea if those routes will continue to exist in their current form, they are hitting the pause button. It would be kind of dumb to spend millions in utility work and stuff to not end up using it later.

I would also, as part of the redesign efforts, like to see a little bit of decoupling of improvements from the SBS brand. Why should only SBS have bus lanes, or transit signal priority, or off-board payments? As an example, why not move all bus routes in and out of major transit hubs to off-board payments heading outbound, like in Jamaica, or Flushing, or Brooklyn College? Why not have bus lanes for streets with a lot of routes that aren't SBS? Hillside Av for example has the Q1,2,3,17,36,43, the X68, and the N1,N6,N22,N24,N26. Why not have bus lanes down the length of Queens Boulevard and the Queensboro for the express buses? etc.

There was a brief trial in the 1970s on Queens Boulevard that was stopped once taxis just stopped in the bus lane and halted traffic deliberately on purpose.

Edited August 15, 2018 by Union Tpke

[MysteriousBtrain]

2 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

It sounds like they had picked five routes already to do it (there is a shortlist of routes that are considered for SBS services), but since we have no idea if those routes will continue to exist in their current form, they are hitting the pause button. It would be kind of dumb to spend millions in utility work and stuff to not end up using it later.

Took the words out of my mouth.

Would you rather have cut service or something fancy for one year only for it to be taken back?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

36 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Took the words out of my mouth.

Would you rather have cut service or something fancy for one year only for it to be taken back?

My point is they're hypocrites.  This is not how you "aggressively" improve service. Waiting years to get these services up and running when they will be cutting service AND raising fares in the interim when ridership is already a mess is not a smart thing. If they're struggling now with the budget, this may very well be a serious blow.  If people like me are exploring using Uber more frequently, surely others are too, plus they will have even less people out enforcing the fares, so that will likely mean more fare beating and more lost revenue. 

Edited August 15, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[BrooklynBus]

17 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

My point is they're hypocrites.  This is not how you "aggressively" improve service. Waiting years to get these services up and running when they will be cutting service AND raising fares in the interim when ridership is already a mess is not a smart thing. If they're struggling now with the budget, this may very well be a serious blow.  If people like me are exploring using Uber more frequently, surely others are too, plus they will have even less people out enforcing the fares, so that will likely mean more fare beating and more lost revenue. 

Putting a moritorium on new SBS routes is the right decision considering the phasing out of Metro Card. Why invest in new machines that will be obsolete soon? This is exactly what I recommended in my April piece in the Gotham Gazette.

http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/7599-the-great-select-bus-service-conspiracy-part-i

I wonder if they still will be going ahead with the B82 SBS. Also, why is there no B46 SBS Progress Report after more than two years? Could it be because ridership has been down for the last two years in a row on that route since they instituted SBS? 

Edited August 16, 2018 by BrooklynBus

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

Putting a moritorium on new SBS routes is the right decision considering the phasing out of Metro Card. Why invest in new machines that will be obsolete soon? This is exactly what I recommended in my April piece in the Gotham Gazette.

http://www.gothamgazette.com/opinion/7599-the-great-select-bus-service-conspiracy-part-i

I wonder if they still will be going ahead with the B82 SBS. Also, why is there no B46 SBS Progress Report after more than two years? Could it be because ridership has been down for the last two years in a row on that route since they instituted SBS? 

It could be due to decreased ridership that they're holding off.  So in short, you support a complete fire sale, which is what I would call this?  To me this is nothing more than the  putting their tails between their legs and indirectly trying to get more people to jump ship and switch to Uber and Lyft. They're doing a damn job of it.  If they have to provide less service, that means more savings for them.

[MysteriousBtrain]

38 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

It could be due to decreased ridership that they're holding off.  So in short, you support a complete fire sale, which is what I would call this?  To me this is nothing more than the  putting their tails between their legs and indirectly trying to get more people to jump ship and switch to Uber and Lyft. They're doing a damn job of it.  If they have to provide less service, that means more savings for them.

Fire sale or not, this is still a good idea. There is still money saved from this plan either way. 

 

I'm more than certain there will be some kind of cuts considering how they are treating the SIMs. The only thing is if the MTA knows the correct amount of cuts to produce.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Fire sale or not, this is still a good idea. There is still money saved from this plan either way. 

 

I'm more than certain there will be some kind of cuts considering how they are treating the SIMs. The only thing is if the MTA knows the correct amount of cuts to produce.

Cuts beget more cuts, which begets more financial woes.  The  only gets a portion of their funding from ridership, but if fewer and fewer people are riding they then are forced to make more cuts to balance the budget.  See what I'm saying here?  These bus re-designs will take YEARS to complete.  They have nothing in the works NOW to start turning around bus ridership, and on top of that they're going to turn around and cut MORE service AND raise the fare.  Basically anyone who doesn't need to rely on them will just make a run for it and ditch the service, which is happening at an increasing rate.  On top of that their expenses related to union costs will keep going up as the unions cry that they need a raise to keep up with the cost of living which basically doesn't happen in the private sector.  Wages overall are stagnant or flat, but union expenses will keep going up for the . 

[BrooklynBus]

5 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Cuts beget more cuts, which begets more financial woes.  The  only gets a portion of their funding from ridership, but if fewer and fewer people are riding they then are forced to make more cuts to balance the budget.  See what I'm saying here?  These bus re-designs will take YEARS to complete.  They have nothing in the works NOW to start turning around bus ridership, and on top of that they're going to turn around and cut MORE service AND raise the fare.  Basically anyone who doesn't need to rely on them will just make a run for it and ditch the service, which is happening at an increasing rate.  On top of that their expenses related to union costs will keep going up as the unions cry that they need a raise to keep up with the cost of living which basically doesn't happen in the private sector.  Wages overall are stagnant or flat, but union expenses will keep going up for the . 

I  fully agree with you about cuts being a bad idea. But holding off on new SBS routes is the right decision. When I get a chance, I will review the 2017 ridership numbers for SBS routes. I bet it is down almost as much as the locals. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

4 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I  fully agree with you about cuts being a bad idea. But holding off on new SBS routes is the right decision. When I get a chance, I will review the 2017 ridership numbers for SBS routes. I bet it is down almost as much as the locals. 

In the interim my question is what are they doing then to stabilize ridership? If you're not introducing more SBS routes, then what else?  Traffic signal priority has been moving at a snails' pace. In fact it's embarrassing how bad it's been.  That leaves the new fare payment system, which IF it goes as planned, comes in no earlier than 2019 or 2020.  In the meantime it's business as usual and then more cuts and hikes.

Edited August 16, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[B35 via Church]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

In the interim my question is what are they doing then to stabilize ridership? If you're not introducing more SBS routes, then what else?  Traffic signal priority has been moving at a snails' pace. In fact it's embarrassing how bad it's been.  That leaves the new fare payment system, which IF it goes as planned, comes in no earlier than 2019 or 2020.  In the meantime it's business as usual and then more cuts and hikes.

SBS' isn't keeping ridership at bay; that's the issue as far as that goes.... One huge frickin farce....  I'd argue, for all the funds (and hassle) that went into instituting SBS, it isn't/wasn't remotely worth it - and as usual, riders are voting with their feet.... Losses all over the place (with the local buses) & SBS sure as hell isn't exempt either.... Have the MTA tell it, not only is SBS maintaining status quo when it comes to usage, but it's spurring ridership across the board.... I'm about a stone's throw away from the B46 & I can easily say that is absolute bullshit....

...There's something to wanting to come out with all these SBS routes ASAP & if you ask me, it has f*** all to do with shaving commuting time across the board for commuters.....

As far as TSP, don't make me laugh..... Never bought into it since the first day it was mentioned (in conjunction with [what was then] the new SBS).... I put as much stock in it as I do santa claus, the tooth fairy, and the NYC panhandler really needing money for "food".....

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

SBS' isn't keeping ridership at bay; that's the issue as far as that goes.... One huge frickin farce....  I'd argue, for all the funds (and hassle) that went into instituting SBS, it isn't/wasn't remotely worth it - and as usual, riders are voting with their feet.... Losses all over the place (with the local buses) & SBS sure as hell isn't exempt either.... Have the MTA tell it, not only is SBS maintaining status quo when it comes to usage, but it's spurring ridership across the board.... I'm about a stone's throw away from the B46 & I can easily say that is absolute bullshit....

...There's something to wanting to come out with all these SBS routes ASAP & if you ask me, it has f*** all to do with shaving commuting time across the board for commuters.....

As far as TSP, don't make me laugh..... Never bought into it since the first day it was mentioned (in conjunction with [what was then] the new SBS).... I put as much stock in it as I do santa claus, the tooth fairy, and the NYC panhandler really needing money for "food".....

It isn't but they need something to stabilize ridership.  With nothing on the horizon ridership will continue to decline.  

[RR503]

22 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

My point is they're hypocrites.  This is not how you "aggressively" improve service. Waiting years to get these services up and running when they will be cutting service AND raising fares in the interim when ridership is already a mess is not a smart thing. If they're struggling now with the budget, this may very well be a serious blow.  If people like me are exploring using Uber more frequently, surely others are too, plus they will have even less people out enforcing the fares, so that will likely mean more fare beating and more lost revenue. 

You can't complain about them not being aggressive enough and them raising fares in the same sentence. It's truly amazing that we kept fare increases to 4% this year what with all the SAP gaps. Deferring investments that will almost certainly become obsolete in a few years seems like a perfectly sound decision. 

I also think that there is so much that can be done with buses that isn't SBS. As others have said, enforced bus lanes on key non-SBS corridors would be a great start, along with more line supervision and load monitoring. As NYCT works towards a holistic redesign (which honestly seems pretty aggressive to me), I absolutely think they should keep improving -- just not in areas where investment life may only be a few years. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

9 minutes ago, RR503 said:

You can't complain about them not being aggressive enough and them raising fares in the same sentence. It's truly amazing that we kept fare increases to 4% this year what with all the SAP gaps. Deferring investments that will almost certainly become obsolete in a few years seems like a perfectly sound decision. 

I also think that there is so much that can be done with buses that isn't SBS. As others have said, enforced bus lanes on key non-SBS corridors would be a great start, along with more line supervision and load monitoring. As NYCT works towards a holistic redesign (which honestly seems pretty aggressive to me), I absolutely think they should keep improving -- just not in areas where investment life may only be a few years. 

Sure you can, especially when they're going to cut service.  I don't think it's amazing at all that the fare keeps going up only 4% every two years, give the piss poor service we've been getting. For the last few months now, there hasn't been a week where I haven't had a missing bus either going to work or coming home.  

[RR503]

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Sure you can, especially when they're going to cut service.  I don't think it's amazing at all that the fare keeps going up only 4% every two years, give the piss poor service we've been getting. For the last few months now, there hasn't been a week where I haven't had a missing bus either going to work or coming home.  

Since when are they cutting service? If you're referring to the general network redesign, that, well, hasn't been released yet (or honestly commenced in any big way). SIM was an unmitigated disaster, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a different group heading up the larger effort. 

Short-term financial outlook shows that we're gonna have dirtier trains/buses that work slightly less well, but continued general increases in service. And yes, in a perfect world, there would be no fare increase given the shitty service, but unless some other revenue stream opens up, this is what we've got to work with. You can (and I'm sure you will) write to your reps about that one. 

I think that it's also worth noting that inflation since 2016 has been 5%, meaning 4% increase means transit got cheaper. Now, of course, I believe transit pricing should be tied to wage growth and not inflation, but that's a wholly different discussion. 

[Via Garibaldi 8]

3 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Since when are they cutting service? If you're referring to the general network redesign, that, well, hasn't been released yet (or honestly commenced in any big way). SIM was an unmitigated disaster, but I'm pretty sure it'll be a different group heading up the larger effort. 

Short-term financial outlook shows that we're gonna have dirtier trains/buses that work slightly less well, but continued general increases in service. And yes, in a perfect world, there would be no fare increase given the shitty service, but unless some other revenue stream opens up, this is what we've got to work with. You can (and I'm sure you will) write to your reps about that one. 

I think that it's also worth noting that inflation since 2016 has been 5%, meaning 4% increase means transit got cheaper. Now, of course, I believe transit pricing should be tied to wage growth and not inflation, but that's a wholly different discussion. 

They will be cutting service AND raising the fare... Oh believe me... I have not been happy at all with service and have been on my elected officials.  

Edited August 16, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[RR503]

15 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

They will be cutting service AND raising the fare...

Read the budget. When I did, the only service cut present was the deferment of SBS. Maintenance, admin staffing are wholly different issues.