Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Future ENY OP]

Just now, Around the Horn said:

Heck I doubt you could get from WBP to the Junction in an hour... the local is probably even worse...

Not happening. SBS is roughly 90 mins to the Junction from WBP. 

[BrooklynBus]

2 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Please give me a proper explanation that the SBS44 is a failure. That’s like saying the M15SBS iS a failure b/c of SAS. The headway’s on the 44SBS need to get better and that’s something that Flatbush management needs to handle. 

Also, in New York City the average travel time for SBS buses may be accurate in The Bronx. However, for Manhattan and Brooklyn which has more traffic not disputing The Bronx you tend to sit in traffic longer. 

If we want faster buses enforcement is needed. Why can’t  PD work in conjunction with NYPD to enforce bus lanes and ticket violators? I understand that  PD’s jurisdiction is the LIRR and Metro-North. However, station some cops on bus lanes so that buses can flow. 

First of all, I don't see your analogy the the M15 SBS. The M15 now has some competition from the SAS. There is no new competition for the B44 SBS. In fact, it acts as competition for the B49 north of Foster taking away passengers from that route if someone wants the B49 and a B44 SBS comes first, they will take it if I travel also takes them to their destination. So that could explain some of the B49 ridership loss and inflates the B44 ridership numbers. Even with those inflated numbers, fewer people are now riding the B44 SBS/local than rode the B44 Limited /local. 

As for why it is a failure, we have to look at the promises made. The MTA contended that it previously took an hour and 15 minutes to travel between WBP and Knapp Street and after SBS, passengers would save 15 minutes and the trip will be able to be made in one hour which what they are still claiming it takes. In fact no one even travels between WBP to Knapp Street to save those 15 minutes. The average time saved is about four minutes for an average 2.7 mile trip. The few riders who travel in excess of five miles will save 15 minutes. Many save no time at all, merely trading a few minutes extra walking for a few minutes saved on the bus. Some even have longer trips with SBS. 

So it really takes closer to two hours although bus lanes and fare pre-payment were added. Machines are frequently broken and it takes a long time to fix them in some cases, people are unfairly ticketed, fare evasion is probably up. SBS costs more to operate ( about $2 or $3 million more a year than the previous service and carries fewer passengers. Initial costs for the B44 were in the neighborhood of $20 million although different sources provide different numbers. 

Not to mention those in cars who have longer trips because of the bus lanes. There is no way you can consider the B44 SBS a success bless you only consider the few who save considerable time and ignore everything else I stated. 

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

..... Not accurate 

That schedule doesn’t take account for traffic conditions. 

That's not the way it used to be in the 1980s when I was there. The running time on each section of route (usually about eight sections for a long route) varied according to time of day to reflect traffic conditions.For example, from point A to B: overnight: 6minutes; 7 to 9 AM: 10 minutes; 9 to 2: 8 minutes; 2 to 5; 9 minutes; 5-7PM 11minutes; 7 to 10 PM: 8 min, etc. 

[Yankees4life]

Someone wanted the B44SBS to go to KCC?

 

Yeah...no thanks

[B35 via Church]

I want to see how they're going to butcher....straighten... butcher, the supposed Bx36 SBS... Can't see them maintaining the current routing from start to finish, and worse, they just may have those SBS' running within the Bronx, not subjecting the thing to the slow crawl to get to/from Washington Hgts.... And on top of that, one of either those down around the [174th st corridor] or the [180th st corridor] are going to get hosed with less local service as a result.....

I've been vociferous about the B44 local screw job on NY av, but one of those aforementioned corridors are going to have it worse.... I hope they're prepared.

[BrooklynBus]

57 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I want to see how they're going to butcher....straighten... butcher, the supposed Bx36 SBS... Can't see them maintaining the current routing from start to finish, and worse, they just may have those SBS' running within the Bronx, not subjecting the thing to the slow crawl to get to/from Washington Hgts.... And on top of that, one of either those down around the [174th st corridor] or the [180th st corridor] are going to get hosed with less local service as a result.....

I've been vociferous about the B44 local screw job on NY av, but one of those aforementioned corridors are going to have it worse.... I hope they're prepared.

I wouldn't be surprised if the go back to the Pre-1978 B49 bus routing claiming few use Sheepshead Bay Station and people can walk the four blocks to the subway because it's within guidelines or else take the B1. They will use some irrelevant statistic like one percent of the routes daily passengers are going to the Sheepshead Bay Station rather than the percentage of bus passengers that get off or on at the station. Of course this will result in lower ridership and more service cuts. That's what we have to look forward to with this redesign. And you know they won't do anything to replace NY Avenue service.

[JeremiahC99]

On ‎8‎/‎27‎/‎2018 at 12:30 PM, BrooklynBus said:

I've stated that KCC students would primarily benefit from the extension. But so would B49 passengers because buses would be less crowded and therefore travel faster. 

Will that extension also benefit B1 bus passengers since those buses are also crowded leaving the college in the afternoons (like what I experienced)?

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Will that extension also benefit B1 bus passengers since those buses are also crowded leaving the college in the afternoons (like what I experienced)?

I don't see why it would have any affect on B1 passengers.

[JeremiahC99]

3 hours ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don't see why it would have any affect on B1 passengers.

So it won’t have any effect on the B1 crowding when college is in session?

[MysteriousBtrain]

8 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So it won’t have any effect on the B1 crowding when college is in session?

Because B1 riders from the west of KCC are most definitely gonna use the new route as if they are from north of KCC. Makes so much sense.

Edited August 29, 2018 by MysteriousBtrain

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, JeremiahC99 said:

So it won’t have any effect on the B1 crowding when college is in session?

There is also crowding on the B49. I don't know why they don't use artics on the B1 shuttle to Brighton Station. That would help. They just need to announce that the bus will only stop at the station and hold the bus until it fills up. Right now the dispatching is horrible. They fill up the 4th Avenue buses and then the shuttles leave half empty. They need to fill up the shuttles first. The B49 shuttles are always empty. 

[JeremiahC99]

2 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

There is also crowding on the B49. I don't know why they don't use artics on the B1 shuttle to Brighton Station. That would help. They just need to announce that the bus will only stop at the station and hold the bus until it fills up. Right now the dispatching is horrible. They fill up the 4th Avenue buses and then the shuttles leave half empty. They need to fill up the shuttles first. The B49 shuttles are always empty. 

They really need to put artics all the time. All they need to do is retrofit Ulmer Park and order the additional artics for full-time use. Can’t they use the B44 SBS buses on the B1 shuttles for now and discontinue those empty and wasteful B49 shuttles?

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

Because B1 riders from the west of KCC are most definitely gonna use the new route as if they are from north of KCC. Makes so much sense.

If they take the B1 to the subway to reach the Flatbush area, they might. (Especially if they have an unlimited if they have have a job before/after school)

24 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

There is also crowding on the B49. I don't know why they don't use artics on the B1 shuttle to Brighton Station. That would help. They just need to announce that the bus will only stop at the station and hold the bus until it fills up. Right now the dispatching is horrible. They fill up the 4th Avenue buses and then the shuttles leave half empty. They need to fill up the shuttles first. The B49 shuttles are always empty. 

Are you sure there's enough demand to fill up articulated shuttle buses within a decent time frame? Is it surges of passengers at certain times?

[Future ENY OP]

39 minutes ago, JeremiahC99 said:

They really need to put artics all the time. All they need to do is retrofit Ulmer Park and order the additional artics for full-time use. Can’t they use the B44 SBS buses on the B1 shuttles for now and discontinue those empty and wasteful B49 shuttles?

First. For the 8,632,587,124 time. Please no more talking about this B44 extension to KCC. It’s very nauseous and all these other bus combinations for the B1 and the B49 need to be left alone. Let each route figure itself out  

The B49 does a good job handling itself going to KCC. The line doesn’t need nor warrant artics. The route isn’t long unlike the other major Flatbush lines of the B41, B44, B46 which all need artics. 

The B1 has its own issues and plus Ulmer Park needs major construction in order to have artics. 

[BrooklynBus]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

First. For the 8,632,587,124 time. Please no more talking about this B44 extension to KCC. It’s very nauseous and all these other bus combinations for the B1 and the B49 need to be left alone. Let each route figure itself out  

The B49 does a good job handling itself going to KCC. The line doesn’t need nor warrant artics. The route isn’t long unlike the other major Flatbush lines of the B41, B44, B46 which all need artics. 

The B1 has its own issues and plus Ulmer Park needs major construction in order to have artics. 

He didn't even mention the B44 extension. And no one other than you mentioned artics for the B49. Plus you didn't answer his question.

[MysteriousBtrain]

3 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

They really need to put artics all the time. All they need to do is retrofit Ulmer Park and order the additional artics for full-time use. Can’t they use the B44 SBS buses on the B1 shuttles for now and discontinue those empty and wasteful B49 shuttles?

B1 will not use artics unless a rebuild of UP or a move is involved. 

What should be happening is sending those SBS buses for b49 service like before. Don't know if they still do that but I think it stopped.

Edited August 30, 2018 by MysteriousBtrain

[JeremiahC99]

51 minutes ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

B1 will not use artics unless a rebuild of UP or a move is involved. 

What should be happening is sending those SBS buses for b49 service like before. Don't know if they still do that but I think it stopped.

That is more of a long term plan. Short term plan would be to just use some of those B44 SBS buses on the heavily used (at least from my last trip there) B1 buses to Brighton Beach on Monday’s to Thursday’s during the afternoons rather than the lightly used B49 shuttles, which would be discontinued. Those B1 shuttles would operate between the College and the Brighton Beach or Ocean Pkwy stations as they do currently.

[Interested Rider]

If my memory serves me correctly, I was reading on this thread where someone mentioned the possibility of re-routing the B/49 to Ocean Avenue from Avenue Z to Emmons Avenue instead of its present routing.  For the record, the route will not be changed now or in the future. 

For those who cannot understand why there must be B/49 service on Avenue Z? 

Sheepshead Bay Library (East 14th Street near Avenue Z)

Post Office Brooklyn NY 11235 (Avenue Z and East 18th Street serves the entire Manhattan Beach area)

St. Marks Catholic Church and School (Avenue Z and Ocean Avenue)

Stop and Shop (Avenue Y and East 17th Street)

This is in addition to the Sheepshead Bay B and Q Station where service to Manhattan is on the same platform not like Brighton Beach!

Everything is  focused on KCC, a college and when Brooklyn Bus trumpets the college, he forgets all the public and religious schools and their students on the B/44 local and SBS that will now be unable to board as the B/4 SBS will have standing room only prior to turning on to Nostrand Avenue. It is quite evident that Brooklyn Bus has not seen the crowds during the mid- late afternoon at Avenue X  for the B/36, B/44 local and SBS, and the periodic fights while waiting for the bus which disrupts our local businesses. 

Anyway, Kingsborough has its own fleet of buses to transport their students to the Brighton Beach Station along with the B/1 , so why do they need a B/44 SBS serving the college? They can expand the fleet of buses to transport their students direct from the college to the station and not disrupt  the B/44..

 

 

 

[B35 via Church]

5 hours ago, JeremiahC99 said:

Can’t they use the B44 SBS buses on the B1 shuttles for now and discontinue those empty and wasteful B49 shuttles?

As if it isn't enough that alternating SBS' would run to KCC under this plan that's been discussed ad nauseam ....

Apparently not.... So much so that now we're going to inquire about (the further marring of) B44 SBS service - by having the very same buses extended to KCC, then do a trip to Brighton Beach subway (during the span the current B1 shuttles operate)???

For the return B44 SBS trip back north (WBP), this would create a pretty significant gap in NB SBS service during the span in question for no good reason....

1 hour ago, Interested Rider said:

Anyway, Kingsborough has its own fleet of buses to transport their students to the Brighton Beach Station along with the B/1 , so why do they need a B/44 SBS serving the college? They can expand the fleet of buses to transport their students direct from the college to the station and not disrupt  the B/44.

100% agreed.

I believe I said this years ago on here, KCC needs to get up off its ass & start aiding more in transporting these kids to/from the subway.... There really shouldn't be this much of an onus on the MTA to be shuttling hundreds of kids practically in one shot the way it currently does/currently has to....

Edited August 30, 2018 by B35 via Church

[BrooklynBus]

12 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

B1 will not use artics unless a rebuild of UP or a move is involved. 

What should be happening is sending those SBS buses for b49 service like before. Don't know if they still do that but I think it stopped.

Yes they used them as shuttles to Sheepshead Bay and carried about 12 passengers each. Was a waste of resources. 

[BrooklynBus]

15 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

If they take the B1 to the subway to reach the Flatbush area, they might. (Especially if they have an unlimited if they have have a job before/after school)

Are you sure there's enough demand to fill up articulated shuttle buses within a decent time frame? Is it surges of passengers at certain times?

I don't think many KCC students gave unlimiteds unless they take classes five days a week. There are surges between 12 and 1 and at 3 PM. At those times a hundred or more students can appear in only three minutes. At about 2:30 PM there are 12 buses sent to the school not in service and they sit there for about 30 minutes until classes are dismissed. They are there for the high school students as well. Why they have to sit there for half an hour I do not understand. Even in August there are six buses waiting, but they don't get filled up. Seems artics could be borrowed from Flatbush and used on the B1 unless the unions won't allow that.

[Future ENY OP]

26 minutes ago, BrooklynBus said:

I don't think many KCC students gave unlimiteds unless they take classes five days a week. There are surges between 12 and 1 and at 3 PM. At those times a hundred or more students can appear in only three minutes. At about 2:30 PM there are 12 buses sent to the school not in service and they sit there for about 30 minutes until classes are dismissed. They are there for the high school students as well. Why they have to sit there for half an hour I do not understand. Even in August there are six buses waiting, but they don't get filled up. Seems artics could be borrowed from Flatbush and used on the B1 unless the unions won't allow that.

The service would have to be operated by Flatbush as Ulmer Park drivers aren’t trained to drive artics. Also, Flatbush has rush hours (PM) for the B1. 

[BrooklynBus]

14 hours ago, Interested Rider said:

If my memory serves me correctly, I was reading on this thread where someone mentioned the possibility of re-routing the B/49 to Ocean Avenue from Avenue Z to Emmons Avenue instead of its present routing.  For the record, the route will not be changed now or in the future. 

For those who cannot understand why there must be B/49 service on Avenue Z? 

Sheepshead Bay Library (East 14th Street near Avenue Z)

Post Office Brooklyn NY 11235 (Avenue Z and East 18th Street serves the entire Manhattan Beach area)

St. Marks Catholic Church and School (Avenue Z and Ocean Avenue)

Stop and Shop (Avenue Y and East 17th Street)

This is in addition to the Sheepshead Bay B and Q Station where service to Manhattan is on the same platform not like Brighton Beach!

Everything is  focused on KCC, a college and when Brooklyn Bus trumpets the college, he forgets all the public and religious schools and their students on the B/44 local and SBS that will now be unable to board as the B/4 SBS will have standing room only prior to turning on to Nostrand Avenue. It is quite evident that Brooklyn Bus has not seen the crowds during the mid- late afternoon at Avenue X  for the B/36, B/44 local and SBS, and the periodic fights while waiting for the bus which disrupts our local businesses. 

Anyway, Kingsborough has its own fleet of buses to transport their students to the Brighton Beach Station along with the B/1 , so why do they need a B/44 SBS serving the college? They can expand the fleet of buses to transport their students direct from the college to the station and not disrupt  the B/44.

I agree with you that it would make no sense for all B49 buses to bypass Sheepshead Bay station for the reasons you mentioned, but since when would that or event the MTA from defying logic? They believe in lowest common denominator solutions like a bus stop every quarter or half mile regardless of specific situation or straightening a route not considering why it turns in the first place.

I don't see how the large crowds boarding at Avenue Z affects the low usage śouts of that point. If you are saying there would not be sufficient capacity for existing B44 users north of Avenue X because of additional riders on the bus, that would have to be part of the analysis to make sure enough buses are scheduled when needed. If extra buses for example would be needed south of Church or Flatbush Avenues are needed for example for certain trips, those should be added. Adding buses from WBP would be wasteful. 

As far as the buses provided by the college, they only account for 20 percent of B1 risers between the subway and the college. The college only runs then because of the unreliability of MTA service. I don't think they should provide more buses but I also do not believe the MTA should bear the financial cost of providing school service. The city should reimburse the MTA for all service on the school open schedule. 

[Interested Rider]

There is something new on the B/82 that was posted on Kings County Politics a couple of days ago.

kingscountypolitics.com  brooklyn-lawmakers-on the-move-August-30-2018. Scroll down to "Colton applauds MTA's revised plan for SBS service on B/2 route".

In addition there are two other political related items that are posted there that may be of interest to those who want  to know how a candidate stands on an issue involving transit. "Gournades promotes Marty Golden's lock box bill" and "Hamilton, Myrie weigh in on mass transit woes". A reminder as Primary Day is less than two weeks  away (Thursday September 13, 2018) and now is the time to ask your local and state representatives about how they stand on improving and funding the MTA as the candidates need your vote to win.

 

 

 

[Future ENY OP]

 

Quote

Deutsch Announces New B44 Express Bus Stop On Avenue R & Nostrand Avenue

 

City Councilman Chaim Deutsch (D-Sheepshead Bay, Manhattan Beach, Brighton Beach, Homecrest, Midwood) has announced yesterday that, in a major victory for Sheepshead Bay residents, a new B44 Select Bus Service (SBS) bus stop will be coming to Avenue R and Nostrand Avenue.

Deutsch, along with Assembly member Helene Weinstein (D-Flatlands, Sheepshead Bay), has been at the forefront of advocacy for an additional bus stop along the express SBS route that begins on Shore Parkway in Sheepshead Bay and ends in Williamsburg. Deutsch led the charge to petition the Metropolitan Transportation Authority and the DOT to implement the change.

The distance between the two nearest SBS bus stops to Avenue R is more than a mile, the largest gap between any two SBS stops in Southern Brooklyn. Additionally, Avenue R, which is a transfer point to two bus routes, the B2 and the B31, that connect Sheepshead Bay, Marine Park, and Gerritsen Beach residents to the only local train – the Q line – which has been in grave need of improved service. The new stops are also slated to make transportation easier for many of the elderly and disabled residents in the area. The new SBS bus stop is slated to be installed during the first two weeks of September.

“I am thrilled to have been able to successfully advocate for the installation of an SBS B44 stop at Nostrand Avenue and Avenue R, the culmination of years of effort. I must commend newly appointed MTA President Andy Byford, who has put his money where his mouth is in truly listening to feedback from the community. Commuters, particularly our senior and disabled neighbors, deserve reliable, accessible transit. This new bus stop will ensure that they are offered timely transportation along Nostrand Avenue,” said Deutsch.

“I am overjoyed that the MTA has heard our pleas and will be placing a Select Bus Service Stop at Avenue R and Nostrand Avenue. I thank MTA President, Andy Byford, for responding to the needs of our Madison neighborhood commuters and elderly constituents,” said Weinstein.

“All of our constituents deserve hassle free, reliable, affordable, safe, and dependable ways to get to around. That is why I am so pleased with the installation of an SBS B44 stop at Nostrand Avenue and Avenue R. This is excellent news and I will keep working with my colleagues to improve the quality and accessibility of our mass transit options,” said State Senator Roxanne Persaud (D-Canarsie, East New York, Brownsville, Mill Basin, Sheepshead Bay, Bergen Beach, Marine Park, Flatlands, Mill Island, Georgetown, Ocean Hill,  Starrett City).

“It is a delight to hear that this new bus stop at Avenue R and Nostrand Avenue will be installed in early September. The new stop will provide better accessibility for all of our constituents,“ said City Council Member Alan Maisel (D-Mill Basin, Canarsie, Flatlands, Bergen Beach, Floyd Bennett Field, Gerritsen Beach, Marine Park, Plum Beach).

While were on the subject of the B44SBS.. Didn't know that a stop on Avenue R is now added..

I guess no more express between Kings Highway and Avenue U.

I'm guessing this takes effect either 9/9/18 or 9/16/18.

Source: https://www.kingscountypolitics.com/brooklyn-lawmakers-on-the-move-aug-28-2018/

 

Thoughts on the new B44SBS change?

[JeremiahC99]

14 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

 

While were on the subject of the B44SBS.. Didn't know that a stop on Avenue R is now added..

I guess no more express between Kings Highway and Avenue U.

I'm guessing this takes effect either 9/9/18 or 9/16/18.

Source: https://www.kingscountypolitics.com/brooklyn-lawmakers-on-the-move-aug-28-2018/

 

Thoughts on the new B44SBS change?

It’s great they finally added that stop. That stop should’ve been added to the B44 SBS from the start.