Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Lawrence St]

The Bx9 should be next.

[Future ENY OP]

On 9/9/2018 at 4:21 AM, East New York said:

Brooklyn Division

B6, B15, B35, B38*, B41, B82

*New Brooklyn Crosstown SBS may end up being some version of the B38 SBS vs as all new route.

Manhattan Division

M14, M96

Staten Island

S90

I like the Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten Island Division proposals for SBS. Concerns i have are following. 

1)  Will Staten Island Division finally jump on the artic bandwagon for the S90?

2) Although it is too early to tell. How will the B15 be evaluated because if it’s the current route for airport they better scrap it and create a new route.

3) M96- Quill or MHV for the SBS?

4) and finally B41 should of been SBS way before the 44/46. Glad that 41 will get SBS. Just a matter of time. 

[WestFarms36]

On 9/9/2018 at 4:21 AM, East New York said:

Queens Division**

Q6, Q12, Q25, Q27, Q43, Q46, Q58, Q65, Q85, Q113, Q114

** Please note Queens will be the last borough to undergo bus redesign. All planned SBS services for this borough will be put on hold until 2021. 

 

Wait, if Queens won't get any new +SBS+ routes until 2021, which is when that borough's redesign has finished... How long will the time frame be for each borough from meetings to Implementation (Noting that SI took 3 years)

Edited September 11, 2018 by East New York

[Brillant93]

Aren’t almost if not all of these routes were proposed to be sbs in the past? 

A no brainer that the B6 would follow the B82 and the B41 would be interesting. I wonder if they are going to split the kings plaza branch from the Bergen beach branch. 

[Express Bus Operator]

2 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Aren’t almost if not all of these routes were proposed to be sbs in the past? 

A no brainer that the B6 would follow the B82 and the B41 would be interesting. I wonder if they are going to split the kings plaza branch from the Bergen beach branch. 

That B41 is going to be really interesting....

[BDNQ2345]

Yh, B41 SBS

[Future ENY OP]

Just now, DueceDrives said:

That B41 is going to be really interesting....

Very interesting. Bergen Beach folk will be fuming if no SBS plus they get a new route only to Junction. If a new route is involved. Have it go to Lincoln Road. 

[Lil 57]

On 9/9/2018 at 4:21 AM, East New York said:

Staten Island

S90

Finally an SI route. I'm a bit confused why they chose the S40/90 corridor instead of the other North Shore routes, (The S44/94, S46/96, and S48/98) all have higher ridership than S40/90). Maybe it has to do with the North Shore BRT being planned or that Richmond Terrace is easier to turn into an SBS corridor than the other corridors. 

Edited September 10, 2018 by Lil 57

[Brillant93]

21 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Very interesting. Bergen Beach folk will be fuming if no SBS plus they get a new route only to Junction. If a new route is involved. Have it go to Lincoln Road. 

Maybe two B41 sbs routes one going downtown and the other to empire blvd. I remember someone proposing only having a bus that goes from Bergen beach to the junction only during rush hours. Like that was so bizarre because you're literally cutting that area off from a direct connection to a subway. 

[checkmatechamp13]

1 hour ago, Lil 57 said:

Finally an SI route. I'm a bit confused why they chose the S40/90 corridor instead of the other North Shore routes, (The S44/94, S46/96, and S48/98) all have higher ridership than S40/90). Maybe it has to do with the North Shore BRT being planned or that Richmond Terrace is easier to turn into an SBS corridor than the other corridors. 

He probably means reactivating the North Shore Rail Line as a busway (the original plans had it replace the S40/90 entirrly AND the S46/96 west of Morningstar which was rather ridiculous)

Edited September 10, 2018 by checkmatechamp13

[trife86]

2 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

He probably means reactivating the North Shore Rail Line as a busway (the original plans had it replace the S40/90 entirrly AND the S46/96 west of Morningstar which was rather ridiculous)

Not too ridiculous IMO as they run parallel about 2 blocks away from each other. If it's idea is another conversation but is it ridiculous, no way 

[East New York]

8 hours ago, DueceDrives said:

So now we know the sbs82 suppose to start next month. What might be the next route in brooklyn to become sbs after the 82 or will they go to another borough first before returning back to Brooklyb establishment?......

North Brooklyn Crosstown is the next Brooklyn route as of right now. I never addressed it because I wanted to wait until this thread. Notice how whenever an Artic goes back to GA, I don't comment on it. Well, now you all know why Grand had continuously had at least 1 artic since even before the train Shutdown.

The M14 However is the next route overall to my knowledge. North Shore SBS is still under preliminary design, and will likely have standard buses at start.  

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

Here’s the thing with the B6. Yes UP have excellent drivers who handle the line. However, the 6 is suffering with traffic woes on Avenue J and Bay Parkway. Some stops can use elimination in favor of the local. Right now. Too early to tell for the B6! 

Off board payment is reason #1 for this line. Dwell times are nerve wracking. 

7 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I like the Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten Island Division proposals for SBS. Concerns i have are following. 

1)  Will Staten Island Division finally jump on the artic bandwagon for the S90?

2) Although it is too early to tell. How will the B15 be evaluated because if it’s the current route for airport they better scrap it and create a new route.

3) M96- Quill or MHV for the SBS?

4) and finally B41 should of been SBS way before the 44/46. Glad that 41 will get SBS. Just a matter of time. 

1.) No time soon because don't have any. It is however possible in the future. Electric Artics would be nice. I think that would be a great line to evaluate them on. But in my honest and professional opinion, I don't see them doing it unless they actually continue forward with a plan that combines a portion of the S96 (which is likely) . I edited the the route to reflect.

2-3.) Way too early for any details, but it (JFK Link) will likely remain an almost identical version of the current B15, which is scheduled to be the 7th articulated line in Brooklyn by the time it goes online.

4.) B46 Should have been 1st. It was the heaviest used bus line in the Country until SBS was introduced. It's now #3

I definitely don't think the B41 should have been first. This line is going to be a headache because of the lack of space along most all of the route. This one needs to be thought outa and planned well. dollar cabs, and double parkers have no regard for bus lanes whatsoever along Utica and Nostrand Avenues. Of the top 15 TA routes, Brooklyn has 3, 4, 5, 7, 13, and 14. In my opinion as I said, 46 should have been first. By the time they get to the 41 they will have had enough experience to plan something that will hopefully work. This won't be easy at all, and back then SBS planning was based solely around artics, and the least amount of turns possible. That's how the 44 came into the picture, even though the 6, 35, and 46 all had higher ridership. The 41 then falls behind all of those.

5 hours ago, checkmatechamp13 said:

He probably means reactivating the North Shore Rail Line as a busway (the original plans had it replace the S40/90 entirrly AND the S46/96 west of Morningstar which was rather ridiculous)

Those two lines together would created the largest on the island. There are many ideas on the tabee, and I am interested in how this all plays out.

 

On another note can you all please not quote a whole post, but only the section you want to discuss. If you aren't discussing anything specific there is no need to quote the whole post if it's part of the most recent discussion. Thank you in advance. Posts have been edited, and quotes deleted to save space.

Edited September 11, 2018 by East New York

[Brillant93]

6 hours ago, East New York said:

North Brooklyn Crosstown is the next Brooklyn route as of right now. I never addressed it because I wanted to wait until this thread. Notice how whenever an Artic goes back to GA, I don't comment on it. Well, now you all know why Grand had continuously had at least 1 artic since even before the train Shutdown.

The M14 However is the next route overall to my knowledge. North Shore SBS is still under preliminary design, and will likely have standard buses at start.  

Off board payment is reason #1 for this line. Dwell times are nerve wracking. 

 

2-3.) Way too early for any details, but it (JFK Link) will likely remain an almost identical version of the current B15, which is scheduled to be the 7th articulated line in Brooklyn by the time it goes online.

I definitely don't think the B41 should have been first. This line is going to be a headache because of the lack of space along most all of the route. This one needs to be thought outa and planned well. dollar cabs, and double parkers have no regard for bus lanes whatsoever along Utica and Nostrand Avenues. Of the top 15 TA routes, Brooklyn has 3, 4, 5, 7, 13, and 14. In my opinion as I said, 46 should have been first. By the time they get to the 41 they will have had enough experience to plan something that will hopefully work. This won't be easy at all, and back then SBS planning was based solely around artics, and the least amount of turns possible. That's how the 44 came into the picture, even though the 6, 35, and 46 all had higher ridership. The 41 then falls behind all of those.

 

 

 

What’s the point for having one artic at GA if it wasn’t going to be on a route? Unless they’re driving it around a potential route from north Brooklyn to downtown? 

The M14 is supposed to be temporary but I still could see it being permanent. Also aren’t they trying to make the old north shore rail line a busway of some sort? 

So the B15 isn’t going artic or sbs but another route will? Weren’t the XD60 from the Bronx 4700s supposed to go to Brooklyn for this? 

The B41 would be interesting because it’s my neighborhood bus. But are they goin mg to plan two routes since the b41 is two branches? 

[Future ENY OP]

14 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

Aren’t almost if not all of these routes were proposed to be sbs in the past? 

A no brainer that the B6 would follow the B82 and the B41 would be interesting. I wonder if they are going to split the kings plaza branch from the Bergen beach branch. 

The B6 is going to be interesting. 

I’d like to see a re-route around the South Shore area for buses to have a direct route to Rockaway Parkway via Glenwood heading towards East New York. Have the locals go via Flatlands. However, the bus grid won’t allow that. 

43 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

What’s the point for having one artic at GA if it wasn’t going to be on a route? Unless they’re driving it around a potential route from north Brooklyn to downtown? 

The M14 is supposed to be temporary but I still could see it being permanent. Also aren’t they trying to make the old north shore rail line a busway of some sort? 

So the B15 isn’t going artic or sbs but another route will? Weren’t the XD60 from the Bronx 4700s supposed to go to Brooklyn for this? 

The B41 would be interesting because it’s my neighborhood bus. But are they goin mg to plan two routes since the b41 is two branches? 

The 4700’s. Out of the question. This has been discussed dozens of times. MTA wants new fleet only for the SBS. 

[limitednyc]

i would think if u look at the b6 you would have to look at the b103 as well. mabe  one would get sbs one the one remains the same.

[BrooklynBus]

1. After the B82 and M14 start, there needs to be a fair and honest evaluation of every SBS route to determines which ones work and which ones do not before the program continues. That includes disclosing the fare evasion on every SBS route today and before the route was converted to SBS and numbers of passengers using SBS and the local counterparts to determine ridership changes and reasons for those changes. Then the ones that have not worked, either need to be fixed so they do work or need to be returned to Limited to avoid the additional operating expense of several million dollars per year on each SBS route.

The MTA cannot continue to blame DOT for lack of enforcement of bus lanes with DOT blaming the NYPD. Travel times cannot continue to be twice what the schedule states if there is to be any semblance of reliability. 

2. Why is the MTA even considering any current route for SBS when they supposed to be reevaluating each route for possible redesign? That is just another inconsistency which reduces trust in the agency. For example, have they already decided the B15 will remain unchanged and continue to serve JFK airport before they even start the redesign analysis? You can't say one thing and then do something else if you want the public to trust you. Further, if the B15 does become SBS and continues to serve JFK, it makes no sense for it not to transfer to the Q52/53. When I raised this point at one of the Q52/53 SBS workshops, the supposed MTA bus expert they sent me to did not know which route the B15 was and forgot to bring a Brooklyn Map with him so he couldn't check. He didn't even make an attempt to look at a map online. 

[B35 via Church]

I'm interested in how they're going to butcher some of these routes to make SBS "work", because propping up bus lanes & adding TVM's isn't going to do the trick for routes like the Bx9, Bx36, and Q58...

17 hours ago, Future ENY OP said:

I like the Brooklyn, Manhattan and Staten Island Division proposals for SBS....

Personally, the Brooklyn ones disgusts me the most (save for the one dubbed the Brooklyn Crosstown... I'm sorry, but something running from Downtown towards the vicinity of Bushwick/Ridgewood (that general area) to me, does not constitute a Brooklyn Crosstown... Even that old [supposed] Bay Ridge-JFK proposal would be more of a supposed Brooklyn x-town than that).... But be there as it may, I'm more intrigued with the Queens & Bronx ones & how those are going to be made to... "work"....

The two Manhattan proposals are ho-hum AFAIC; it's a no brainer to want to SBS the crosstowns... I'd like to see SBS on the M8 though

 

[MysteriousBtrain]

3 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

What’s the point for having one artic at GA if it wasn’t going to be on a route? Unless they’re driving it around a potential route from north Brooklyn to downtown? 

To keep consistent with training and maintenance for when the SBS starts.

[Future ENY OP]

10 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

I'm interested in how they're going to butcher some of these routes to make SBS "work", because propping up bus lanes & adding TVM's isn't going to do the trick for routes like the Bx9, Bx36, and Q58...

Personally, the Brooklyn ones disgusts me the most (save for the one dubbed the Brooklyn Crosstown... I'm sorry, but something running from Downtown towards the vicinity of Bushwick/Ridgewood (that general area) to me, does not constitute a Brooklyn Crosstown... Even that old [supposed] Bay Ridge-JFK proposal would be more of a supposed Brooklyn x-town than that).... But be there as it may, I'm more intrigued with the Queens & Bronx ones & how those are going to be made to... "work"....

The two Manhattan proposals are ho-hum AFAIC; it's a no brainer to want to SBS the crosstowns... I'd like to see SBS on the M8 though

 

There’s something about this Dekalb Avenue SBS I really don’t like. We’re talking about a central part of Brooklyn where congestion is bad and fare evasion is rampant. If this dedicated SBS made a few stops in Ridgewood/Maspeth to the BQE into Downtown Brooklyn than I’d buy it. (I thought that was the original plan) 

The biggest issue I have is the B6. 

A) Fully duplicating the B82 

B) There’s a portion of Glenwood Road that can be used exclusively for the B6 in Canarsie 

C) As East New York mentioned to me earlier is the dwell times along the 6. 

[Lawrence St]

Weren't there plans for a Bx52 SBS route between 149th St and Lagurdia Airport?

[Just New York]

6 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

There’s something about this Dekalb Avenue SBS I really don’t like. We’re talking about a central part of Brooklyn where congestion is bad and fare evasion is rampant. If this dedicated SBS made a few stops in Ridgewood/Maspeth to the BQE into Downtown Brooklyn than I’d buy it. (I thought that was the original plan) 

The biggest issue I have is the B6. 

A) Fully duplicating the B82 

B) There’s a portion of Glenwood Road that can be used exclusively for the B6 in Canarsie 

C) As East New York mentioned to me earlier is the dwell times along the 6. 

The problem with the B6 is Av J, Glenwood road(Between Albany & Nostrand , Av H. Taking the B6 off flatlands in Canarsie is not going to work. Most of us are not walking from Glenwood to flatlands so let’s see.

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

To keep consistent with training and maintenance for when the SBS starts.

So it must be sooner than we think. Even though they said they said they won’t have anymore sbs until 2021.

[B35 via Church]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

There’s something about this Dekalb Avenue SBS I really don’t like. We’re talking about a central part of Brooklyn where congestion is bad and fare evasion is rampant. If this dedicated SBS made a few stops in Ridgewood/Maspeth to the BQE into Downtown Brooklyn than I’d buy it. (I thought that was the original plan) 

The biggest issue I have is the B6. 

A) Fully duplicating the B82 

B) There’s a portion of Glenwood Road that can be used exclusively for the B6 in Canarsie 

C) As East New York mentioned to me earlier is the dwell times along the 6. 

I don't necessarily have a problem with trying to make travel b/w Ridgewood/Bushwick & Downtown faster, but it's not a crosstown IMO.... Short of skipping 50 million stops, I want to see how they're going to pull this Brooklyn Crosstown SBS route off (as in, the routing), because the B26, 38, 52, and 54 corridors are all slow as shit....

I have to read up more about the B6 SBS, as I don't know what it fully entails.... The B82 one I personally don't see as necessary... The B35 one I believe is going to cause more problems than it's going to solve.... The B41 one, well they can try their hand at it, but it'll likely be moot (too little, too late -  and that's being optimistic) - People have gave up on the route in droves, especially north of the Junction.... SBS-ing the route won't bring those people back.... What's the other one, the B15? They're going to have to do an absolute number to (a lot to) the route for it to be remotely worthwhile.... Straightening the thing would do it some good, but then there the broadest street (lol)  in all of Brooklyn called New Lots av that you gotta worry about.... If you notice/know, the B15 has a lot of quote-unquote intermediate ridership....

[GreatOne2k]

The Bx15 local should be extended to 138 St when the Bx15 LTD gets converted to the Bx15 SBS in order to:

1. Give local bus riders another subway alternative instead of just 149 St 

2. In order to keep the two local bus stops on Willis Avenue from being eliminated

[NewFlyer 230]

It will definitely be interesting to see how the MTA will work out some of these proposed SBS routes. I can only really speak for Queens since I’ve been all over the place in Queens but SBS on routes like the Q25, Q27 and especially the Q58 will seem kind of forced with their current routings. I don’t necessarily agree on the Q65 getting SBS because it’s was the faster (Jamaica-Flushing) route compared to the Q44 and Q25 before the Q44 got SBS. The only thing the Q65 can use is possibly extended LTD hours and perhaps being moved onto Parsons Blvd with the Q26. Plus also taking into account the massive bus redesign who knows how many of these routes will remain completely unchanged. The Q58 being Queens highest used route does too much in my opinion and I always felt that getting to Flushing was a hassle from Queens Blvd around the QCM and Grand Ave/Queens unless you took the  to the  . I’m not so much opposed to a Ridgewood to Flushing route but it’s the detour through Corona that is annoying because that area is very traffic prone and there is no type of grid so the streets curve like crazy. 

 

As as far as a B15 SBS, I personally feel there should be a Local and SBS variant of the route. The locals stay in Brooklyn only while the SBS goes to JFK. While that may sound ideal I know the MTA will favor SBS more and give too much SBS service. Then you’d see the cutting some of the local service and making the local variant more unreliable. I can certainly see the same thing happening with the B41 local.