Select Bus Service Discussion Thread

[Brillant93]

16 minutes ago, LTA1992 said:

I don't want to hear that when there are cities in the world with WAY less road space and just as much congestion that can take up half a two-lane street for a protected Bus/Bike lane. 

And I don't want to hear that ridiculous notion of New York exceptionalism that tries to dictate what is and isn't possible here.

So give me examples then? We have two way streets with bus lanes but are they effective? Not much because you have double parking, parking in them, and basically them not being enforced. Other cities around the world would have a personal car towed for being parked in a bus stop. Other places around the world you’re supposed to yield for a bus. You know what places that don’t have that? Here in nyc. Where people can park in bus stops and lanes and not get punished for it. 

[East New York]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:01 AM, Lawrence St said:

The M60SBS is worse.

I don't understand how there can be 2 buses arriving at the same time and then the next one is 35 minutes away. And this happens EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

 

On 9/4/2018 at 10:21 AM, BrooklynBus said:

Exactly. The MTA would have you believe that something like that is totally out of their control and it is not. Bus travel in this city is too much of a crap shoot. Sometimes it works great, sometimes it's passable, and sometimes it is pure shit. 

If the MTA can ignore the fact that it routinely takes up to two hours when the schedule calls for only one hour (B44), something is very wrong in Denmark. Maybe we have the same problem with the M60. 

Worse yet, I heard Byford state that he doesn't believe you just add runtime when a bus can't meet its schedule. I guess he was saying you attack the problem  in other ways so that the bus can go faster. But until you can do that, you must change the schedule or the buses will always be delayed and proper service will be impossible. 

To a certain extent, part of it is actually out of there control. We have several issues at play here. The #1 issue is the traffic patterns. At certain times of the day it is quite common for buses to either catch up to each other or pass them all together. I have been evaluating the M60+ for 3 years now. One of my friends and a few other associates had that line regularly.

The second major issue is that the route timing needs to be adjusted. This is the root to all the other issues, and this is definitely something that can be blamed on the MTA. 

[East New York]

On 9/12/2018 at 7:26 AM, RR503 said:

See page 437 of the July financial plan (which, to be fair, is not the Nov. FP so is not binding yet).

Not saying you're wrong, just saying this bears more explanation...

That's definitely incorrect because the M14 SBS is nowhere to be found on it. What I stated was accurate, but everyone is reading into it too much. Some lines are already planned, others are proposed. Confirmation on some route numbers are also unconfirmed, yet the corridors are.

However, next up on the list are the B82, North Brooklyn, and North Shore routes. I never mentioned anything about a timeline other than what will not be happening through 2021. Since 2019 is knocking at the door, you only have real time to implement the B82, and the M14 which should have been on that list even at the time of printing. There's 2019 in a nutshell. In 2019 and 2020 we could see the introduction of North Shore and North Brooklyn if there are suitable designs by then. There is no timeline for those 2 routes because of the planning and design that still needs to be done, so I would understand why they would not show up anywhere on the books yet. Shortly thereafter, the  train will resume operation, buses will be redeployed and reassigned at that time, and MTA can then get back to the next routes up on the list.

 

On 9/12/2018 at 9:11 AM, P3F said:

Several weeks ago, there was a discussion about B44 select buses being scheduled for an hour between WBP and Knapp, but in reality taking about two hours to make the trip.

 

On 9/12/2018 at 10:00 AM, Around the Horn said:

That schedule was extremely hopeful in the first place...

I guess it depends on the time of day and other factors because It's been done, and I've seen it done all the time. This time of night the runtime is less than an hour. During rush it averages 1 hour 20 minutes, and is scheduled for approximately 1 hour 10 minutes

I've evaluated the route end to end and the most it ever took me with a major delay was 1 hour 32 minutes at rush. We were 24 minutes behind schedule.

On 9/12/2018 at 2:38 PM, Brillant93 said:

It’s quite odd that the Q10 isn’t on the planned routes for sbs. I think a queens link to jfk would work because it’s a straight forward route. 

Touching on the subject with why our buses are stuck in traffic especially here in nyc is because of our culture here. In other places where bus lanes are people often respect them more so than people here do. Whenever I tell people from other places that people here park in bus stops and lanes they are baffled because in places where they came from that is a direct tow. Here we have more so a corrupt culture when it comes down enforcement. NYPD won’t enforce bus lanes a much as they should and they even too park in them. People in nyc know they’ll get a slap on the wrist and this is also why fare envision is also high since the MTA won’t harsley punish those who do fare envade. So if sbs buses are just as slow as the limit is because our nypd won’t enforce the lanes. To add on Brooklyn is the most populated borough and we have certain communities that have a suburban mentality in populated dense areas. So you have a neighborhood not built around cars but the people who have families have about two to three cars per household there’s bound to be congestion. Then you have trucks and freight trucks delievering to businesses at sparetic times which leads to excessive double parking, especially in areas with lack of loading zones. 

Sorry to off topic but I just wanted to put my say into why our bus lanes aren’t enforced because it goes into much deeper than just no one is enforcing them. If we really want better sbs we have to change the culture in nyc. Our city wasn’t built around for cars. 

The Q10 doesn't need it until off-board payment is expanded systemwide. The Limited run is an average of 39-45 minutes at rush.

On 9/12/2018 at 7:55 PM, BrooklynBus said:

If a problem is ever going to be solved all the affected agencies have to learn to work together, not just blame each other. We should not be creating an new exclusive bus lanes if there is no intention to keep them clear. 

 

Very true, but when no one is willing to work together what do you do? It's the sole responsibility of the NYCDOT (which has not come up with an effective plan) to implement a plan with the help of the NYPD. MTA isn't an enforcement agency for anything other than SBS fare evasion.

On 9/13/2018 at 2:50 PM, Union Tpke said:

@East New YorkWill these changes be reflected in the STIP any time soon? Thanks.

That I do not know.

6 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Is the Q66 SBS to Columbus Circle still planned?

NYCDOT X77307

NORTHERN BOULEVARD FLUSHING-MANHATTAN CORRIDOR SELECT BUS SERVICE FROM NORTHERN BOULEVARD AND MAIN STREET, IN QUEENS COUNTY TO COLUMBUS CIRCLE, MANHATTAN, NEW YORK COUNTY TO REDUCE TRAVEL TIMES AT BOTH COUNTIES

Thank you for pointing that out. Was an error on my behalf, and yes the Q66 is on that list.

[paulrivera]

On 9/4/2018 at 10:01 AM, Lawrence St said:

The M60SBS is worse.

I don't understand how there can be 2 buses arriving at the same time and then the next one is 35 minutes away. And this happens EVERY. SINGLE. DAY.

Oh hell no. If I was coming off a plane at LaGuardia and I had a 35 minute wait for the M60 I’d get an Uber.

I wouldn’t care if the trip cost me $35 or if surge pricing was in effect. If an Uber can pick me up within 10 minutes with a guaranteed seat after a long flight you bet your ass I’m going to cross over from the bus stop to the rideshare stand.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

23 minutes ago, paulrivera said:

Oh hell no. If I was coming off a plane at LaGuardia and I had a 35 minute wait for the M60 I’d get an Uber.

I wouldn’t care if the trip cost me $35 or if surge pricing was in effect. If an Uber can pick me up within 10 minutes with a guaranteed seat after a long flight you bet your ass I’m going to cross over from the bus stop to the rideshare stand.

I’ve always come from JFK (thank God) and always took a cab to and from for my international flights. LaGuardia is just insane. We drove once to pick up folks from there and I couldn’t imagine flying out of there, let alone taking the M60. LOL

Edited September 15, 2018 by Via Garibaldi 8

[Yankees4life]

On 9/12/2018 at 5:57 PM, trainfan22 said:

Glenwood road is now a two way street near the Rock Park station, traffic lights installed both ways, yellow lines and SBS machines on both sides of the street.

Nice. Thank f**k that weird loopy thing is eliminated. That was a complete waste of time for southbound B6/B82

Edited September 15, 2018 by Yankees4life

[Brillant93]

19 minutes ago, Yankees4life said:

Nice. Thank f**k that weird loopy thing is eliminated. That was a complete waste of time for southbound B6/B82

I never understood why they had that loop thing. It never made sense. 

[Yankees4life]

21 hours ago, Brillant93 said:

I never understood why they had that loop thing. It never made sense. 

I guess it was to provide an easier connection to the but honestly, Glennwood should be been a two-way street from the get go if they wanted to do that.

[Brillant93]

I believe they're starting construction on 14th street in manhattan for sbs machines. I could be wrong but I saw the sidewalks dug up with machine set thingys on it. 

[Trainmaster5]

11 hours ago, Yankees4life said:

I guess it was to provide an easier connection to the but honestly, Glennwood should be been a two-way street from the get go if they wanted to do that.

Let me throw a little history lesson in here. It wasn't that long ago (to me) that the whole area east of the train station was a transit desert  There were three bus routes serving the station primarily.  The B42, the B17, and the B60 with the latter route serving the residents east of the station.  Let me point out that only alternate B60s came that far south. The terminal was at Hegeman and Rockaway Avenue. There's a playground where the the buses used to be stored in an old trolley barn on that corner today . Going back to the Glenwood situation east of the station remember that Flatlands was the primary street down there and anyone else who wanted the could use the E 105th station if the subway was what they wanted. I can recall when the B6 and the old B50 began to serve the area east of the station.  Carry on. 

[East New York]

After further reviewing the documents you all mentions I have noticed a couple errors. SBS deferral after the B82 is definitely incorrect, even though it's posted in Black and white I can assure you it is wrong.

On 9/16/2018 at 3:58 PM, Brillant93 said:

I believe they're starting construction on 14th street in manhattan for sbs machines. I could be wrong but I saw the sidewalks dug up with machine set thingys on it. 

It is about that time now. They all need to be in place within the next 6 month. More proof that those board materials are wrong, but this isn't the first time. One major incident was MTA saying they were ordering NF C40LFR's and I disputed the claims, saying that NFI would be resurrecting the C40LF from the grave solely for MTA. New Flyer even contacted Harry, then emailed me to ask where this information came from because they were not notified of MTA's pending plan. 

Everyone basically stoned me to death and called me all types of liars ..... The rest is history. Flawless Victory. Now we have the only 4th gen C40's in existence. So trust me when I say that MTA document is wrong. 

[Lawrence St]

14 minutes ago, East New York said:

After further reviewing the documents you all mentions I have noticed a couple errors. SBS deferral after the B82 is definitely incorrect, even though it's posted in Black and white I can assure you it is wrong.

It is about that time now. They all need to be in place within the next 6 month. More proof that those board materials are wrong, but this isn't the first time. One major incident was MTA saying they were ordering NF C40LFR's and I disputed the claims, saying that NFI would be resurrecting the C40LF from the grave solely for MTA. New Flyer even contacted Harry, then emailed me to ask where this information came from because they were not notified of MTA's pending plan. 

Everyone basically stoned me to death and called me all types of liars ..... The rest is history. Flawless Victory. Now we have the only 4th gen C40's in existence. So trust me when I say that MTA document is wrong. 

So we're getting another order of C40's?

[LGA Link N Train]

This thread seems interesting and I've already read 3 pages of it! However, I would like to bring up the bus lane enforcement issue. To me, it sounds like a disgrace that personal cars, NYPD cars, even trucks (though I feel like giving an exception to them since some are making deliveries), are parking on the bus lanes!! Let alone the fact that the , DOT, and NYPD are not collaborating on fixing this issue. I think that they should start working together to help fix this issue and give every bus stop a curb lane (AFTER REDESIGN). That aside, I like the idea of the Q66 being SBS to Columbus Circle since it can loop there. However, if it's still terminating at Main Street, then that needs to be changed to reduce a bit of congestion in Flushing  (maybe have it terminate somewhere close to Roosevelt Avenue South of Main Street so that you still serve Flushing Residents). As for the Q113/114 SBS plan, it'll help those in the Rockaway such as @EphraimB so I support it. These are my overall thoughts (so far) 

[NoHacksJustKhaks]

33 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

As for the Q113/114 SBS plan, it'll help those in the Rockaway such as @EphraimB so I support it. These are my overall thoughts (so far) 

My opinion:

Im not so sure about a Q113/114 SBS. I don't know if residents on Guy Brewer. want to give up parking spaces for bus lanes since many parts of the Brewer don't have a lot of driving lanes (especially in Southern Queens, where a great number of people drive). The plan may also cripple local bus service if done, specifically on the Q111 and maybe the Q114 (this has happened to prior SBS routes). And I don't really see how it may be able to speed up other sections of the route beyond Guy Brewer, though i'll look into that further later on. I feel the route needs more buses that are better managed, some times I've waited over 20 minutes late for a Q113 or Q114 that already has lackluster headway's to begin with. I'll say it's not the easiest thing to do considering the traffic both routes run through (and the $$$), but it seems more logical and benefical to me than putting SBS on the route, only to cripple local service many need later on.

Edited September 20, 2018 by NoHacksJustKhaks

[East New York]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

So we're getting another order of C40's?

No lol. That platform is dead. We were only able to get them (185-672) because Chicago's CTA cancelled an option order for artics, therefore the parts were available. Under the body however, our C40's are the only 4G's are very similar to our XN40's.

47 minutes ago, LaGuardia Link N Tra said:

This thread seems interesting and I've already read 3 pages of it! However, I would like to bring up the bus lane enforcement issue. To me, it sounds like a disgrace that personal cars, NYPD cars, even trucks (though I feel like giving an exception to them since some are making deliveries), are parking on the bus lanes!! Let alone the fact that the , DOT, and NYPD are not collaborating on fixing this issue. I think that they should start working together to help fix this issue and give every bus stop a curb lane (AFTER REDESIGN). That aside, I like the idea of the Q66 being SBS to Columbus Circle since it can loop there. However, if it's still terminating at Main Street, then that needs to be changed to reduce a bit of congestion in Flushing  (maybe have it terminate somewhere close to Roosevelt Avenue South of Main Street so that you still serve Flushing Residents). As for the Q113/114 SBS plan, it'll help those in the Rockaway such as @EphraimB so I support it. These are my overall thoughts (so far) 

I definitely agree. Lane enforcement needs to be addressed immediately. Many delays are caused by unauthorized vehicles in the lanes. When I'm in my Nova RTS in a bus lane, I push people out of it lol. If I'm not in a rush, I will pull up behind you and lay on my horn to the point where people outside get so tired of hearing it that they start yelling at hoever is in the lane. 😂

22 minutes ago, NoHacksJustKhaks said:

My opinion:

Im not so sure about a Q113/114 SBS. I don't know if residents on Guy Brewer. want to give up parking spaces for bus lanes since many parts of the Brewer don't have a lot of driving lanes (especially in Southern Queens, where a great number of people drive). The plan may also cripple local bus service if done, specifically on the Q111 and maybe the Q114 (this has happened to prior SBS routes). And I don't really see how it may be able to speed up other sections of the route beyond Guy Brewer, though i'll look into that further later on. I feel the route needs more buses that are better managed, some times I've waited over 20 minutes late for a Q113 or Q114 that already has lackluster headway's to begin with. I'll say it's not the easiest thing to do considering the traffic both routes run through (and the $$$), but it seems more logical and benefical to me than putting SBS on the route, only to cripple local service many need later on.

SBS isn't always all about speeding up the corredor. The main reason for implementation is reducing dwell times, and reducing the amount of times the bus has to merge in and out of traffic. 

The northern portion of the B46, and the Nostrand Avenue portion of the B44 never have clear bus lanes, and dollar vans and cabs here in Brooklyn add to an already major problem. So in this part of the city we get it worse than anyone else.

[Brillant93]

They’ve put up the sbs bus stop signs on the B82. They have the new sbs scheme to them. 

[Brillant93]

Read that the first weeks of the B82 sbs they are going to have a modified route due to construction around the Canarsie area. Does anyone have any ideas on what that is? 

[East New York]

The B82 Detour is as follows Effective now until completion:

Stillwell Avenue Bound Only - via Cropsy, Left on Neptune, Right on Stillwell, Left into Stillwell Terminal.

 

Canarsie routing is pending.

Edited September 21, 2018 by East New York

[Lawrence St]

So can anyone recap the B82 SBS routing and changes?

[Brillant93]

Saw the B82 sbs timestable on the bus stop pole and it looks like the B82 sbs is running  between from 5am to 11pm on weekdays. 

[Future ENY OP]

33 minutes ago, Brillant93 said:

Saw the B82 sbs timestable on the bus stop pole and it looks like the B82 sbs is running  between from 5am to 11pm on weekdays. 

No weekend service ??

[Brillant93]

1 hour ago, Future ENY OP said:

No weekend service ??

Nope, unfortunately. 

[trainfan22]

The best thing about the B82 SBS being weekday only is it's fleet won't be running on weekends so ENY will have to run a good amount of their RTS on weekends to make service!!!😄

[Rick44]

9 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The best thing about the B82 SBS being weekday only is it's fleet won't be running on weekends so ENY will have to run a good amount of their RTS on weekends to make service!!!😄

It's East New York depot, they will run that fleet wherever and whenever they damn well please lol.

[Future ENY OP]

10 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

The best thing about the B82 SBS being weekday only is it's fleet won't be running on weekends so ENY will have to run a good amount of their RTS on weekends to make service!!!😄

East New York is known for having those buses run on the B42. Ive seen 7684, 7678 and few others on the B12 also.