1 dead, 16 injured in subway fire

[GojiMet86]

18 minutes ago, Kevin Madson said:

I hid the original comment @Kevin Madson made to stop a flame war from starting. - Deucey

 

I don't get this, Chargerdodge9/NorthBrooklyn/R62CNG/Ricky Coolan/2004OrionVIICNG/jgood6195/depotofrelax. How many times have you been banned for this excessive spamming of questions, and you still haven't learned from it?

 

Edited September 3, 2020 by Deucey
See quote box

[Deucey]

Since I had to hide a reply, and then use other moderator buttons, let's get back to discussing the subway arson instead of:

· Hurling personal attacks

· Family Planning laws and personal stances on whether they should be legal

· Bringing up nonsense rationales for a previous governor not being re-elected

· Discussing the baseball strike in relation to the previous bullet (with the caveat that should the person who originally introduced it do so again, I'll use other moderator buttons).

 

We good everyone?

[Wallyhorse]

12 hours ago, Deucey said:

Since I had to hide a reply, and then use other moderator buttons, let's get back to discussing the subway arson instead of:

· Hurling personal attacks

· Family Planning laws and personal stances on whether they should be legal

· Bringing up nonsense rationales for a previous governor not being re-elected

· Discussing the baseball strike in relation to the previous bullet (with the caveat that should the person who originally introduced it do so again, I'll use other moderator buttons).

 

We good everyone?

Yeah.  I didn't even start that part about baseball and politics, others brought that in.

I was up until then keeping it to what actually was happening, and I was being very specific on the homeless situation that started the fire as noted (which was in the overnight in case anyone forgot) and everything else with the homeless that eventually led to the subways being shut down in the overnights. 

[Kamen Rider]

10 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I was being very specific on the homeless situation that started the fire as noted (which was in the overnight in case anyone forgot) and everything else with the homeless that eventually led to the subways being shut down in the overnights. 

do you have any concrete evidence that the person who started the fire was homeless? Because this seems like another of your massive leaps of logic, which is why we started talking about baseball in the first place, it's one of your funnier ones. 

[Bay Ridge Express]

On 9/4/2020 at 2:27 AM, Wallyhorse said:

Yeah.  I didn't even start that part about baseball and politics, others brought that in.

I was up until then keeping it to what actually was happening, and I was being very specific on the homeless situation that started the fire as noted (which was in the overnight in case anyone forgot) and everything else with the homeless that eventually led to the subways being shut down in the overnights. 

Prove to us, algorithmically (with concrete evidence), that a homeless person started the fire.

[Deucey]

On 9/4/2020 at 2:27 AM, Wallyhorse said:

I was up until then keeping it to what actually was happening, and I was being very specific on the homeless situation that started the fire as noted (which was in the overnight in case anyone forgot) and everything else with the homeless that eventually led to the subways being shut down in the overnights.

How does that square with NYPD having a person of interest in that fire being arrested for other fires and not being homeless?

https://nypost.com/2020/03/31/suspect-in-fatal-nyc-subway-fire-charged-with-arson-again/

[Kamen Rider]

I'm guessing we could hound him on this till the cows come home and he won't have an answer for it...

[Wallyhorse]

2 hours ago, Deucey said:

How does that square with NYPD having a person of interest in that fire being arrested for other fires and not being homeless?

https://nypost.com/2020/03/31/suspect-in-fatal-nyc-subway-fire-charged-with-arson-again/

I didn't see that article at the time.  At the time, it was believed that person was homeless AFAIK. 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact the homeless issue led to the overnight shutdowns as it was the only legal way the could kick them out of the system. 

Edited September 5, 2020 by Wallyhorse

[Wallyhorse]

4 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

Prove to us, algorithmically (with concrete evidence), that a homeless person started the fire.

As I said, that was the belief at the time as far as I knew.  I never saw any subsequent articles that it was anything but that I now know about (not surprising given how much else has been going on the past several months).

I was simply unaware, and again, it was not heavily out there because of all the other news of the past few months, especially in late March when it was "all COVID, all the time." 

[Kamen Rider]

YOUR belief at the time, no one else’s. And you need to learn to make that distinction...

 

Just because YOU think something, DOES NOT make it fact.

 

 

[Deucey]

5 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

I didn't see that article at the time.  At the time, it was believed that person was homeless AFAIK. 

Regardless, it doesn't change the fact the homeless issue led to the overnight shutdowns as it was the only legal way the could kick them out of the system. 

No, complaints about homeless people riding trains at night, with the perception that they spread disease, led to shutting down the system.

There's no ACLU or legal issue preventing that beyond non-discrimination of access laws - the same laws that prevent racists from refusing to service potential customers because the customers' race, ethnicity or religion.

And , if you want a "legal" way to deny homeless access to sleep on trains or platforms, need only set a time limit for people to be in the subway system on a single fare. But if they did that, a lot of folks would complain because they couldn't do subway marathon challenges anymore, and it could penalize folks stuck past the time limit because of train failures - not to mention that MetroCard doesn't and OMNY isn't likely to have exit swipes or taps to confirm entry and exit time for folks who exit and re-enter.

So it boils down to this: the perceived homelessness problem on trains exists because  never crafted a rule to stop it because it didn't invest in technology that could do it, and because  subcontracted rules enforcement to NYPD instead of expanding  Police - or bringing on State Troopers to patrol the property they're leasing on NYS' behalf; and NYC under the current mayor and the two previous mayors didn't bother to try creating a real alternative scheme to provide the homeless shelter and cash assistance.

If NYCDOT can still run the orange yacht between Whitehall and the end of my street 24/7 and boot the homeless after each trip without lawsuit - and the SI Ferry is free, that makes your "reasoning" nonsense.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Deucey

[Kamen Rider]

I think the Ferry kicking people off is a coast guard rule, but the point stands

[Deucey]

1 hour ago, Kamen Rider said:

I think the Ferry kicking people off is a coast guard rule, but the point stands

I haven't found any specific USCG rule requiring all pax disembark when the ferry reaches the terminal - likely because a lot of ferries in the US that carry as many passengers as the SI Ferry make multiple stops. But I do remember reading on a sign at Whitehall years ago that you couldn't stand in the turnstiles in the waiting area so the sensors could get accurate occupancy counts.

But three issues with that being the justification:

1) Not every person who goes through them gets on the ferry; and

2) Ferry staff don't count how many people are on board the boat when it's underway. And

3) People stay and sleep in the terminals, and USCG rules govern how terminals operate.

So while it could be a special part of the specific Maritime Security Plan NYCDOT had to have USCG sign off on after 9/11, it's likely a City ordinance or DOT rule.

[Wallyhorse]

8 hours ago, Kamen Rider said:

YOUR belief at the time, no one else’s. And you need to learn to make that distinction...

Just because YOU think something, DOES NOT make it fact.

Like I said, that was what I remember reading at the time but that was also when COVID otherwise DOMINATED the news and with a ton of other things going on (i.e.: stock market going haywire and so forth), it was not a story that really was anywhere nearly as heavily followed up on as it would have been otherwise.  That's where the confusion for me lied and why I said what I did that I was wrong about.

[R10 2952]

I think this thread has run its course, honestly.

[DCTransitFilms]

On 8/20/2020 at 8:50 PM, Rigojefte Galo said:

Are there repairing R142 numbered 6346 to 6350 because I haven't heard if they gonna scrapped it or not?

not sure on if 6346-6350 will be repaired but as ik 6366-6370 is back in service

[Lawrence St]

NYPD has finally caught and arrested the person responsible for this tragic arson. [Source via Twitter account of @NYPDTransit]

Quote

50 year-old Nathaniel Avinger was arrested and charged with murder stemming from the senseless and tragic arson that led to the death of subway motorman Garrett Goble earlier this year- Our thanks to the @NYPDDetectives who worked tirelessly to bring Garrett’s killer to justice.

 

Edited December 18, 2020 by Lawrence St

[biGC323232]

16 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

NYPD has finally caught and arrested the person responsible for this tragic arson. [Source via Twitter account of @NYPDTransit]

 

It's about time...

[7-express]

https://nypost.com/2020/12/18/cops-arrest-alleged-arsonist-who-killed-mta-conductor-in-march/

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, 7-express said:

https://nypost.com/2020/12/18/cops-arrest-alleged-arsonist-who-killed-mta-conductor-in-march/

So they initially had their perp but let him go.  I would like to know what new evidence they had and if he didn't assault this female employee how long it would have taken the cops to pick him up.  If they thought he was the arsonist/killer, they should have always kept them in their sights and swooped down before he assaulted this female.

Justice?  Nah, his bleeding heart ACLU court appointed lawyer will plead the old insanity defense and how society has forgotten about his needs with the end result being Mrs. Gable and her kids will never get justice.

[Lex]

19 hours ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

So they initially had their perp but let him go.  I would like to know what new evidence they had and if he didn't assault this female employee how long it would have taken the cops to pick him up.  If they thought he was the arsonist/killer, they should have always kept them in their sights and swooped down before he assaulted this female.

Justice?  Nah, his bleeding heart ACLU court appointed lawyer will plead the old insanity defense and how society has forgotten about his needs with the end result being Mrs. Gable and her kids will never get justice.

Attorneys are responsible for arguing their cases (for defense attorneys, they're obligated to argue for lighter sentencing or to throw out the prosecution's charges, and court-appointed ones are much more likely to simply have overfilled plates, which hampers their ability to provide good defense). Judges and juries are responsible for sentencing.

[Bill from Maspeth]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

Attorneys are responsible for arguing their cases (for defense attorneys, they're obligated to argue for lighter sentencing or to throw out the prosecution's charges, and court-appointed ones are much more likely to simply have overfilled plates, which hampers their ability to provide good defense). Judges and juries are responsible for sentencing.

The perp will get a psych evaluation first.  Do you think this guy will be able to stand trial?  I think you are getting way ahead in the process.

[GojiMet86]

5 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

The perp will get a psych evaluation first.  Do you think this guy will be able to stand trial?  I think you are getting way ahead in the process.

Says the guy who thinks the Gables will never get justice.

Just sayin'.

[Bill from Maspeth]

5 minutes ago, GojiMet86 said:

Says the guy who thinks the Gables will never get justice.

Just sayin'.

Get back to me when I am proved wrong after the criminal justice system runs its' course.

I want this guy fried in the electric chair (or administer the chemicals).  An eye for an eye.  As a retired train operator, I'll gladly administer the capital punishment, if we even had it in this state.  But I have lived in this liberal bleeding heart cesspool of a state all my life.  I know how it works.  This guy gets sent to Bellevue for a psych exam and is found not to be competent to stand trial.  Then what?  Do they let him go to do the same or similar deeds again because our politicians want to reduce the jail population (so he'll assault/kill more transit workers) or do they lock him up for life anyway as a danger to himself/others?  Our tax dollars at work!  Exterminate this guy so the taxpayer doesn't have to support this POS, which will never happen.

[GojiMet86]

3 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Get back to me when I am proved wrong after the criminal justice system runs its' course.

I want this guy fried in the electric chair (or administer the chemicals).  An eye for an eye.  As a retired train operator, I'll gladly administer the capital punishment, if we even had it in this state.  But I have lived in this liberal bleeding heart cesspool of a state all my life.  I know how it works.  This guy gets sent to Bellevue for a psych exam and is found not to be competent to stand trial.  Then what?  Do they let him go to do the same or similar deeds again because our politicians want to reduce the jail population (so he'll assault/kill more transit workers) or do they lock him up for life anyway as a danger to himself/others?  Our tax dollars at work!  Exterminate this guy so the taxpayer doesn't have to support this POS, which will never happen.

 

Then do it yourself. If you're so worked up about it, go out and kill the guy yourself, tough guy.