Governor Hochul seeks ‘alternatives’ to LaGuardia AirTrain

[Wallyhorse]

On 3/13/2022 at 9:01 PM, shiznit1987 said:

I know it's not a consideration but I think extending the SAS to LGA should be on the table. I'd build this in lew of terminating the SAS at 125/Lex. You can have the line run down 125th to Randalls Island, then basically paralell the GCP all the way to the airport with a transfer spot at Astoria Blvd. Astoria voters would love it since it would give the area a second subway option as well. 

This is basically what I would have done, but IN ADDITION to Phase 2 that I would actually have run to at least 125/St. Nicholas with a connection there to the 8th Avenue line that would allow for greater flexibility.  I would do it where in this case the would cut off from possibly south of 116, with the 116 station running 116-119 on Second Avenue while the LGA run would stop at 116th Street/1st Avenue-Pleasant Avenue OR would cut north of 116th Street with a stop at 124th Street/1st Avenue before going the route you suggested, possibly as part of a longer-term extension that could run to Willets Point and take some pressure off the .  

[shiznit1987]

19 hours ago, Wallyhorse said:

This is basically what I would have done, but IN ADDITION to Phase 2 that I would actually have run to at least 125/St. Nicholas with a connection there to the 8th Avenue line that would allow for greater flexibility.  I would do it where in this case the would cut off from possibly south of 116, with the 116 station running 116-119 on Second Avenue while the LGA run would stop at 116th Street/1st Avenue-Pleasant Avenue OR would cut north of 116th Street with a stop at 124th Street/1st Avenue before going the route you suggested, possibly as part of a longer-term extension that could run to Willets Point and take some pressure off the .  

That's all well and good, but right now the best we could hope for is possibly a split between one branch going to 125th/Lex and the other running to LGA. I'd love a 125th Crosstown line (heck, I'd send it to Teterboro and build a park n ride there) but that's going to be like #177 on the MTA's subway expansion priorities, especally since Central and West Harlem is so subway-rich anyway. 

[Wallyhorse]

On 3/15/2022 at 4:14 PM, shiznit1987 said:

That's all well and good, but right now the best we could hope for is possibly a split between one branch going to 125th/Lex and the other running to LGA. I'd love a 125th Crosstown line (heck, I'd send it to Teterboro and build a park n ride there) but that's going to be like #177 on the MTA's subway expansion priorities, especally since Central and West Harlem is so subway-rich anyway. 

The point is, the LGA branch should happen regardless of whether 125 is extended (though that I think the MTA needs to look at since there are supposed to be tail tracks going to Lenox Avenue as it is).   Going to at least 125/St. Nicholas and connecting it to 8th Avenue allows for all kinds of flexibility even if it's not used by a regular line. 

[BreeddekalbL]

Plans scrapped 

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/plans-scrapped-for-nyc-rail-link-to-laguardia-airport/

 

[Cait Sith]

1 minute ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Plans scrapped 

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/plans-scrapped-for-nyc-rail-link-to-laguardia-airport/

 

Thank god.

[Lawrence St]

3 minutes ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Plans scrapped 

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/plans-scrapped-for-nyc-rail-link-to-laguardia-airport/

 

Great, now let’s extend the  and  there!

[Gotham Bus Co.]

28 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Great, now let’s extend the  and  there!

The Astoria NIMBYs shouted that down years ago.

[Lawrence St]

5 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

The Astoria NIMBYs shouted that down years ago.

I could give two hoots in a sardine can what Astoria NIMBY’s complain about. The TA needs to do things for the benefit of riders, not what a couple of negative Nancy’s say.

[Kingsbridgeviewer382]

7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I could give two hoots in a sardine can what Astoria NIMBY’s complain about. The TA needs to do things for the benefit of riders, not what a couple of negative Nancy’s say.

The  and  idea was also shot down in the same assessment the scrapped the LGA AirTrain. The plan is to put money on the Q70 and other bus alternatives that connect to LGA.

Part of the article:

"The panel agreed that extending the subway to provide a “one-seat ride” from Midtown was “the optimal way to achieve the best mass transportation connection.” But they added that the engineers that reviewed the options could not find a viable way to build a subway extension to the cramped airport, which is hemmed in by the Grand Central Parkway and the East River.

Even if a way could be found to extend the subway that would not interfere with flight operations at La Guardia, the analysis concluded, it would take at least 12 years and cost as much as $7 billion to build.

Improving and speeding up the Q70 bus and creating an all-electric shuttle service would cost a fraction of that amount, only about $500 million, said Ms. Sadik-Khan, former New York City transportation commissioner. She said the bus service would carry nearly twice as many passengers annually as the Willets Point AirTrain was projected to handle."

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/13/nyregion/laguardia-lga-airtrain.html?smid=tw-nytimes&smtyp=cur

Edited March 13, 2023 by Kingsbridgeviewer382

[T to Dyre Avenue]

1 hour ago, BreeddekalbL said:

Plans scrapped 

https://pix11.com/news/local-news/plans-scrapped-for-nyc-rail-link-to-laguardia-airport/

 

Ah…AirTrain or no train. Port Authority wouldn’t have it any other way.

36 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

The Astoria NIMBYs shouted that down years ago.

It’s been 20-25 years! How many of those unpleasant NIMBYs are still around anyway?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

1 minute ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

Ah…AirTrain or no train. Port Authority wouldn’t have it any other way.

It’s been 20-25 years! How many of those unpleasant NIMBYs are still around anyway?

Nobody wants some noisy overhead thing in their neighborhood.  Would you like an AirTrain overhead in Whitestone?  Likely not.

[T to Dyre Avenue]

Just now, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nobody wants some noisy overhead thing in their neighborhood.  Would you like an AirTrain overhead in Whitestone?  Likely not.

No, but if I had an extended  or  train to Whitestone, I’d switch from the QM20 bus to it in a second. Big gap in buses + heavy LIE traffic = late to work again this morning. Hell, I’m sitting in very slow BQE traffic right now. 

Besides, the majority of the extended  route would likely have been via 19th Avenue, which is a mostly industrial area with a substantial amount of parking lots.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

16 minutes ago, T to Dyre Avenue said:

No, but if I had an extended  or  train to Whitestone, I’d switch from the QM20 bus to it in a second. Big gap in buses + heavy LIE traffic = late to work again this morning. Hell, I’m sitting in very slow BQE traffic right now. 

Besides, the majority of the extended  route would likely have been via 19th Avenue, which is a mostly industrial area with a substantial amount of parking lots.

I can assure you that having a train overheard roaring by does not help property values. That's why most people don't want them, regardless of how old they are. Your quiet, leafy Whitestone would be anything but. 

[N6 Limited]

1 hour ago, Kingsbridgeviewer382 said:

Improving and speeding up the Q70 bus and creating an all-electric shuttle service would cost a fraction of that amount, only about $500 million, said Ms. Sadik-Khan, former New York City transportation commissioner. She said the bus service would carry nearly twice as many passengers annually as the Willets Point AirTrain was projected to handle."

Sounds like they want a Q70 equivalent to the  that uses the GCP?

[Lawrence St]

2 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Nobody wants some noisy overhead thing in their neighborhood.  Would you like an AirTrain overhead in Whitestone?  Likely not.

I absolutely would. Adds to the ambience of the city.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

37 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I absolutely would. Adds to the ambience of the city.

You don't live in the City or did you move from Westchester? lol

[Lawrence St]

11 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

You don't live in the City or did you move from Westchester? lol

I moved to NJ moving to Riverdale next month to be closer to my job!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

50 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I moved to NJ moving to Riverdale next month to be closer to my job!

Well that would never fly here. lol

[Lawrence St]

20 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Well that would never fly here. lol

Your telling me you wouldn't want the wonderful sounds of the  train right outside your window?

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Just now, Lawrence St said:

Your telling me you wouldn't want the wonderful sounds of the  train right outside your window?

If I wanted that I'd live in Manhattan. lol Areas outside of the City away from the subway are an escape and allow for piece and quiet, not to mention that property values would immediately decline.

[BreeddekalbL]

18 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Your telling me you wouldn't wanYour e wonderful sounds of the  train right outside your window?

 

18 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If I wanted that I'd live in Manhattan. lol Areas outside of the City away from the subway are an escape and allow for piece and quiet, not to mention that property values would immediately decline.

And besides if a new "el" were built wouldnt they be concrete like the airtrain jfk?

[IAlam]

New elevated rail lines aren't as loud as the previous el lines we have built, If you go to other cities like Philly or Seattle you can see they're much quieter. 

[Lex]

20 hours ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

If I wanted that I'd live in Manhattan. lol Areas outside of the City away from the subway are an escape and allow for piece and quiet, not to mention that property values would immediately decline.

In that case, what are we waiting for?

I honestly question how much of an impact that would really have, as the increased connectivity -- especially with modern construction methods -- would, at worst, only slightly reduce property values. If noise is really that much of a concern, use Sapporo as a reference point.

At some point, we'll really need to get over this aversion to setting up elevated lines, and I say this as someone who doesn't exactly like heights.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

In that case, what are we waiting for?

I honestly question how much of an impact that would really have, as the increased connectivity -- especially with modern construction methods -- would, at worst, only slightly reduce property values. If noise is really that much of a concern, use Sapporo as a reference point.

At some point, we'll really need to get over this aversion to setting up elevated lines, and I say this as someone who doesn't exactly like heights.

Exactly, nothing will ever get done here if they keep listening to people who don’t want a train in their backyard.

[bobtehpanda]

1 hour ago, Lex said:

In that case, what are we waiting for?

I honestly question how much of an impact that would really have, as the increased connectivity -- especially with modern construction methods -- would, at worst, only slightly reduce property values. If noise is really that much of a concern, use Sapporo as a reference point.

At some point, we'll really need to get over this aversion to setting up elevated lines, and I say this as someone who doesn't exactly like heights.

 

3 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Exactly, nothing will ever get done here if they keep listening to people who don’t want a train in their backyard.

That's not the reason why the extension was rejected.

An LGA runway directly ends at the GCP. If you have ever driven in the area you'll notice very stubby streetlamps. Indeed, if you look at that neighborhood on Google Maps, there is a whole-ass clear zone where there are no buildings that are legally allowed to be built. Nothing can be in the general path of that runway and taller than those streetlamps. So you can't really build an elevated line from the west.

There's also a 90 year old storm and wastewater pipe that is apparently critical for serving hundreds of thousands of people in Queens that is also underground in this location, so it's not easy to build a tunnel either.

Here's the report: https://www.panynj.gov/content/dam/port-authority/press-room/press-kits/lga-mass-transit/2023-03-13-Full-Report%2bExecutive-Summary.pdf