R268 (R68/R68A Replacement) - Information & Discussion

[AZthefoamer]

WAIT, is this official? R268? Is that the actual contract?

I expect it to start service in about 10 years judging from typical timelines. And it will likely be similar to the R211, even if not identical, and many features will be the same, though hopefully within a few years, we know better what specifications work well.

[ABOGbrooklyn]

53 minutes ago, cony said:

Any reason why the rolling stock for the NTTs seem to always be manufactured by Bombardier/Alstom or Kawasaki? Why doesn't the MTA ever go with other manufacturers like CAF, Siemens, Stadler, etc?

Deleted

Edited June 11, 2023 by ABOGbrooklyn

[RandomRider0101]

9 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Honestly I don’t even know why they’re going through with a R268 order…teleportation will be made available to the public by that time! /s

And what exactly does that have to do with replacing the R68/As? Are you saying that public transit will become obselete in the coming decades?

[RandomRider0101]

2 hours ago, cony said:

Any reason why the rolling stock for the NTTs seem to always be manufactured by Bombardier/Alstom or Kawasaki? Why doesn't the MTA ever go with other manufacturers like CAF, Siemens, Stadler, etc?

Manufacturers have to be qualified in order to build rolling stock for the MTA. Alstom & Kawasaki are the only companies that are currently qualified to build cars for MTA.

Also, not every company is willing to do business with NYCT. So that limits their options even more anyway.

Edited June 11, 2023 by RandomRider0101

[cony]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Manufacturers have to be qualified in order to build rolling stock for the MTA. Alstom & Kawasaki are the only companies that are currently qualified to build cars for MTA.

Also, not every company is willing to do business with NYCT. So that limits their options even more anyway.

Interesting, is there a formal process for becoming qualified to build cars or is just up to the whim of the MTA? I feel like having more competition for bids would lower the cost.

[AZthefoamer]

1 hour ago, RandomRider0101 said:

Manufacturers have to be qualified in order to build rolling stock for the MTA. Alstom & Kawasaki are the only companies that are currently qualified to build cars for MTA.

Also, not every company is willing to do business with NYCT. So that limits their options even more anyway.

Likely Alstom and Kawasaki will each get one of the R262/R268 orders.

[YankeesPwnMets]

Assuming these take a decade and change to show up, the R143s will be approaching their mid 30s. At that point they'll be able to start RFPs for 143 replacements so that they can arrive when the 143s are in their mid 40s. Then the 160s will be approaching their mid 30s and the cycle continues...

[Chris89292]

9 hours ago, YankeesPwnMets said:

Assuming these take a decade and change to show up, the R143s will be approaching their mid 30s. At that point they'll be able to start RFPs for 143 replacements so that they can arrive when the 143s are in their mid 40s. Then the 160s will be approaching their mid 30s and the cycle continues...

The R143’s work fine, they just need some deep cleaning, they look so dirty, these new trains wouldn’t be replaced till like 2045-50, these include the R142’s, R143’s, R142A’s, it’s still too early to decide tho

[zacster]

24 minutes ago, Chris89292 said:

The R143’s work fine, they just need some deep cleaning, they look so dirty, these new trains wouldn’t be replaced till like 2045-50, these include the R142’s, R143’s, R142A’s, it’s still too early to decide tho

But let's just speculate that before that time some new tech has arrived that makes them obsolete and the MTA wants to move on. 

Oh wait, its the MTA.  Nevermind.

[AZthefoamer]

41 minutes ago, zacster said:

But let's just speculate that before that time some new tech has arrived that makes them obsolete and the MTA wants to move on. 

Oh wait, its the MTA.  Nevermind.

Not too likely unless the R143s are really, really bad. And them becoming that obsolete is unlikely by 2045. The MTA has always run cars that should probably not be in service, the SMEEs will be obsolete, the R32 were 55 years old, you get the picture. If they are retired before 2045 I will not be surprised. We will likely have a 15 year period where no massive orders will be placed. Maybe there will be fleet expansion or more test trains but I highly doubt the R143s are being retired prematurely.

[Ale188]

This is a f**kING THING!?!?!? I must have not payed attention to anything lately…

[ABOGbrooklyn]

2 hours ago, Ale188 said:

This is a f**kING THING!?!?!? I must have not payed attention to anything lately…

You're late to the party. R68s are done within this decade.

[Ale188]

1 hour ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

You're late to the party. R68s are done within this decade.

That was kinda the point of me saying that

[AZthefoamer]

4 hours ago, ABOGbrooklyn said:

You're late to the party. R68s are done within this decade.

Uh, not sure about the end of the decade, I would say within ten years.

[randomnewyorker23]

i’m sure the 160s won’t be too far behind in retirement, the newest 143s were delivered in 03, the oldest R160s were delivered in 06

 

 

even then i still cannot imagine the R143s retiring

[ABOGbrooklyn]

13 minutes ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

i’m sure the 160s won’t be too far behind in retirement, the newest 143s were delivered in 03, the oldest R160s were delivered in 06

 

 

even then i still cannot imagine the R143s retiring

No new tech train will get retired within the next two decades

[T to Dyre Avenue]

So exactly two decades from now would put the R143s right on schedule to be retired and replaced.

[R32 3838]

1 hour ago, randomnewyorker23 said:

i’m sure the 160s won’t be too far behind in retirement, the newest 143s were delivered in 03, the oldest R160s were delivered in 06

 

 

even then i still cannot imagine the R143s retiring

July 2005 8713 was delivered, Just 3 months after the very last R142A was delivered from the R142S Supplemental order 

[zacster]

FWIW the first of the R1s were built in 1930 and the last of the R9s were delivered in 1940.  They were old fashioned when first ordered and by the end they really needed to be redesigned.  When they were retiring the R1s starting in 1969 the R9s weren't even 30 years old and had to be kept for another 7(?) years before they were eligible. 

And the first and last cars are still running!

Edited June 15, 2023 by zacster

[Comrade96]

I'm glad theyre starting the process for the 268s, some of these 68s need to go pronto 

[Comrade96]

Lousy no air having POS

[RandomRider0101]

On 6/11/2023 at 12:51 AM, Lawrence St said:

Honestly I don’t even know why they’re going through with a R268 order…teleportation will be made available to the public by that time! /s

Disregard my previous response. Wasn't aware at the time that the end symbol is used to indicate sarcasm (facepalm). I'm still not fully versed in keyboard slang (or whatever you choose to call it). 🤷‍♂️ 🤷

[bobtehpanda]

On 6/11/2023 at 5:02 AM, cony said:

Any reason why the rolling stock for the NTTs seem to always be manufactured by Bombardier/Alstom or Kawasaki? Why doesn't the MTA ever go with other manufacturers like CAF, Siemens, Stadler, etc?

In addition to the other comments
 

• Siemens doesn't really make metro cars in the US. Their existing plants are pretty much at capacity because they handle nearly every light rail and Amtrak order in the US.
• CAF has had some reliability issues with their sets produced in the US
• Stadler in subway equipment is relatively new in the US, their first and only order so far has been MARTA in 2019, and those have not been delivered yet

[Cait Sith]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:49 AM, AZthefoamer said:

Not too likely unless the R143s are really, really bad. And them becoming that obsolete is unlikely by 2045. The MTA has always run cars that should probably not be in service, the SMEEs will be obsolete, the R32 were 55 years old, you get the picture. If they are retired before 2045 I will not be surprised. We will likely have a 15 year period where no massive orders will be placed. Maybe there will be fleet expansion or more test trains but I highly doubt the R143s are being retired prematurely.

MDBF says otherwise. Their reliability is going up.

[AZthefoamer]

2 hours ago, Cait Sith said:

MDBF says otherwise. Their reliability is going up.

Yep. Despite being "halfway to retirement age" their MDBF is still some of the best in the fleet. Who knows what may happen but the MTA is not going to retire R143s prematurely without good reason.