R179 Discussion Thread

[Union Tpke]

It would be even nicer to have the R32s back on the A so there can be a RFW in the Rockaways section.

Long Live R32s!

 

 

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[NewFlyer 230]

Well I hope that R179 thing is not true. It makes the most sense to have 207, Piktin and Jamaica take care of them. R46s will return to the F and Coney Island gets some of Jamaica's R160's. Then when the R211's come Jamaica and Pitkin will get them.

[LTA1992]

The current popular belief is that in order to prevent CI from having to maintain an extra fleet that's only a few cars, all the 179's will go to 207th, with a few (A)'s being done out of there, so that R46's can go to Jamaica, to give extra 160's to CI

Isn't CI the one yard that has to be able to maintain all cars? I mean, historically, CI has had everything but old IRT cars I think. Being that the R179 is going to be pretty much the same as the 160 and 143 (which the R143 does head down to CI from time to time), does the 179 REALLY have to go to 207? I mean, think about it. And with the 46 replacement happening in a few years, why put a fleet on the line that will just be moved again anyway? Especially since the 211 may be different in mechanics from the 143/160/179.

Edited March 6, 2014 by LTA1992

[Lance]

Well, technically it has to go wherever the C-line is serviced, so it's 207th by default. Whether Transit wants to send the five-car sets to another yard has not been determined yet, but if they want to keep the entire order confined to one yard, they will likely run on the A. If not, well, we have a pretty good idea of where the five-car set will end up.

[MTA Bus]

Well I hope that R179 thing is not true. It makes the most sense to have 207, Piktin and Jamaica take care of them. R46s will return to the F and Coney Island gets some of Jamaica's R160's. Then when the R211's come Jamaica and Pitkin will get them.

 

So far, all we know is that the R179s are going to ENY and 207th Street yards. It hasn't not been determined what yard the five cars sets will go to.

[Eric B]

It would be awkward to have just 40 cars (4 trains) on the (And it's not even like all 40 would always be running at the same time, some of them are spares). That would be a total oddball fleet. (like old cars they are waiting to get rid of).

 

Depending on how compatible they're made with the 160's, they might fit in better in CIYD or JYD. (They really should have gone with a 160 option in that case. R179 was originally the next generation car, but now has become a fill-in for 160's, and the R211 has taken its place).

 

Perhaps they would be for the Rockaway shuttle, but then it might be better to use the four car sets for that. The 179's would be good as a dedicated fleet (which is now out of CIY), along with the 8600's originally planned for it.

[NewFlyer 230]

So far, all we know is that the R179s are going to ENY and 207th Street yards. It hasn't not been determined what yard the five cars sets will go to.

I mean to say 207th and Piktin but let's hope those 5 car sets are for the . How many R42s are at ENY 48 or 50?

[YankeesPwnMets]

I thought the 2 AV line above 63rd wouldn't be complete at least for another few year. What stations do they have done on the 2 Ave Line or at least the progress?

I thought the plan was to give the those R179's so they only run out of 207th Piktin and ENY. Then the R46's will go to the and bump some R160's to Coney Island.

I don't get why the thinks it is fine to send the R46s back onto the . The is delayed most of the time and is crowded as f*ck hell already. The R46s only have 32 doors per side, the R160s have 40 doors per side. Passenger loading is much more efficient with the R160s. If the MTA is so intent on dumping the R46s back to Jamaica, throw them onto the instead. The only has to go to through Queens Blvd and 8 Av. The has to go through Queens Blvd, 6 Av, Park Slope and Culver. The is bad enough as it is already and sending back more and more R46s is not going to help. Ever since the swap I swear it takes five minutes to get everyone on the train with those 46's and another several minutes to jam the rest of the people in before the doors can finally close

Edited March 6, 2014 by YankeesPwnMets

[Around the Horn]

It would be awkward to have just 40 cars (4 trains) on the (And it's not even like all 40 would always be running at the same time, some of them are spares). That would be a total oddball fleet. (like old cars they are waiting to get rid of).

 

Depending on how compatible they're made with the 160's, they might fit in better in CIYD or JYD. (They really should have gone with a 160 option in that case. R179 was originally the next generation car, but now has become a fill-in for 160's, and the R211 has taken its place).

 

Perhaps they would be for the Rockaway shuttle, but then it might be better to use the four car sets for that. The 179's would be good as a dedicated fleet (which is now out of CIY), along with the 8600's originally planned for it.

I never knew they were planned for the .Why did they change it?

[AndrewJC]

It would be awkward to have just 40 cars (4 trains) on the (And it's not even like all 40 would always be running at the same time, some of them are spares). That would be a total oddball fleet. (like old cars they are waiting to get rid of). Depending on how compatible they're made with the 160's, they might fit in better in CIYD or JYD. (They really should have gone with a 160 option in that case. R179 was originally the next generation car, but now has become a fill-in for 160's, and the R211 has taken its place). Perhaps they would be for the Rockaway shuttle, but then it might be better to use the four car sets for that. The 179's would be good as a dedicated fleet (which is now out of CIY), along with the 8600's originally planned for it.

It's going to be an oddball fleet no matter what. The R179's will be in no way compatible with the R160's, so there's no particular advantage in trying to run then together. And 40 cars isn't enough to cover any line, even the G.By running them on the A, they can at least share parts with the cars on the C.

 

I don't get why the thinks it is fine to send the R46s back onto the . The is delayed most of the time and is crowded as f*ck hell already. The R46s only have 32 doors per side, the R160s have 40 doors per side. Passenger loading is much more efficient with the R160s. If the MTA is so intent on dumping the R46s back to Jamaica, throw them onto the instead. The only has to go to through Queens Blvd and 8 Av. The has to go through Queens Blvd, 6 Av, Park Slope and Culver. The is bad enough as it is already and sending back more and more R46s is not going to help. Ever since the swap I swear it takes five minutes to get everyone on the train with those 46's and another several minutes to jam the rest of the people in before the doors can finally close

The crowding on the E in Queens is significantly more intense than anywhere on the F.I doubt it actually take five minutes to get everyone on the train. You are exaggerating.

[cl94]

It's going to be an oddball fleet no matter what. The R179's will be in no way compatible with the R160's, so there's no particular advantage in trying to run then together. And 40 cars isn't enough to cover any line, even the G. By running them on the A, they can at least share parts with the cars on the C.

 

The crowding on the E in Queens is significantly more intense than anywhere on the F. I doubt it actually take five minutes to get everyone on the train. You are exaggerating.

 

 

40 cars can't do anything except a shuttle and I don't see them going to the Rockaway . It's too early to know exactly where they'll go, but 207th is a good guess as they're already getting most of the 4 car sets for the . Last thing CI or Jamaica needs is another fleet to take care of.

 

The would be insanely crowded if it ran nonstop between Van Wyck and Lexington. Those Archer stops get nearly everybody coming in by bus from eastern Queens in addition to LIRR and Airtrain riders.

Edited March 6, 2014 by cl94

[YankeesPwnMets]

 

You are exaggerating.

There is a literary device known as a hyperbole. Look it up.

[RollOver]

Last thing CI or Jamaica needs is another fleet to take care of.

 

If the , , and trains already have enough requirements for their entire routes/headways, then why would either Jamaica or Coney Island get the 40 R179 cars in sets of five? For what, really? If the run to/from SAS is shorter than Astoria, why would the need the R179s for?

[AndrewJC]

If the , , and trains already have enough requirements for their entire routes/headways, then why would either Jamaica or Coney Island get the 40 R179 cars in sets of five? For what, really? If the run to/from SAS is shorter than Astoria, why would the need the R179s for?

 

All 600 foot trains are fundamentally interchangeable. The new cars don't need to go to the line where the extra service is needed.

 

SAS requires more cars because the W will be coming back, in order to maintain adequate Astoria service.

[ScreechyFlange]

Yeah but out in the Rockaways it would be so awesome lol

Make sure you and your C/r have pens so you can write your G2's after your run is over.

[LTA1992]

The R179's will be in no way compatible with the R160's, so there's no particular advantage in trying to run then together.

 

 

And how do you know this? Unless the design is radically different, which it shouldn't be, the only thing keeping the two from running together would be differences in propulsion.

[Eric B]

It's going to be an oddball fleet no matter what. The R179's will be in no way compatible with the R160's, so there's no particular advantage in trying to run then together. And 40 cars isn't enough to cover any line, even the G. By running them on the A, they can at least share parts with the cars on the C.

Did they say for sure they wouldn't be compatible? The 160's were originally supposed to be 100% compatible; described as almost indistinguishable from the 143's, but then they changed propulsion and other stuff. (Forgot whether the propulsion was decided yet). But it shows it is possible to make a new fleet compatible.

(I meant to add, that in CI, if close enough in compatibility to the 160's, they would share parts there, and have far more to share with).

 

In 207 for the , you'll probably end up with just one or two trains out a day (since cars are constantly inspected, having defects fixed, or just plain rotated for service). This is what's happening with the 32's on the now, but that is a temporary situation (still find it strange they didn't think to replace all the 42's with some of the spare 32's they had), and I find it hard to see them doing that with a brand new fleet, forever.

I never knew they were planned for the .Why did they change it?

Don't know. By the time they came out, they just put them with the rest of the CI fleet on the . (The was still JYD at the time). Since they had been talking about transferring the over for some time, perhaps that plan was based on an assumption it would be in that yard when the cars arrived, but by the time it did transfer over, they didn't feel like bothering qualifying everyone, or whatever reason they persist on just moving the 68's over, where the OPTO T/O has to enable himself on one side, and make all the announcements for such a long like for OPTO service).

[YankeesPwnMets]

Am I the only one hoping that the MTA gets rid of the FINDs? I think a better option would be to have an LCD screen where ethe FIND is and have that as a digital strip map. The strip maps can look just like the ones on the R142/R143 but instead, they would be digital and adjustable. For ex, when an operator changes from the to a , the screen just changes to show the line's strip maps. It would be easier to read than the pixelated text on a FIND and show all stops at once unlike what the FINDs, which cycle through stops that are more than 10 stops away.

[Tomtoon]

According to Wikipedia the order was drastically changed from 250 5-car sets and 40 4-car sets to now 40 5-car sets and 260 4-car sets.. Seems a bit of a big change..

Edited March 7, 2014 by Tomtoon

[RollOver]

 

In 207 for the , you'll probably end up with just one or two trains out a day (since cars are constantly inspected, having defects fixed, or just plain rotated for service). This is what's happening with the 32's on the now, but that is a temporary situation (still find it strange they didn't think to replace all the 42's with some of the spare 32's they had), and I find it hard to see them doing that with a brand new fleet, forever.

 

So? Simply put, the R179 is just going to be a minority in the fleet. It doesn't matter if it uses one or two out of the four 5-car R179 trains each day or whatever. Same happens with the R46s on the (when Montague is open), R42s on the and R160s on the . And the very same thing will happen with the R142As on the . Aside from East New York, every other shop in the subway system has one or two cars for regular maintaince/inspection. The already has enough trains for SAS anyway. I highly doubt that the run between 125 St-2 Av and Coney Island is longer than the run between Astoria and Coney Island. It would require slightly low amount of trains for that purpose, freeing enough cars for a restored . And plus, the and are most certainly not going to be increased for many reasons. More service is needed between Queens and Manhattan than between Manhattan and Brooklyn on the Astoria/Broadway/Sea Beach/Brighton side of town anyway.

Edited March 7, 2014 by RollOverMyHead

[Eric B]

So? Simply put, the R179 is just going to be a minority in the fleet. It doesn't matter if it uses one or two out of the four 5-car R179 trains each day or whatever. Same happens with the R46s on the (when Montague is open), R42s on the and R160s on the . And the very same thing will happen with the R142As on the . Aside from East New York, every other shop in the subway system has one or two cars for regular maintaince/inspection. The already has enough trains for SAS anyway. I highly doubt that the run between 125 St-2 Av and Coney Island is longer than the run between Astoria and Coney Island. It would require slightly low amount of trains for that purpose, freeing enough cars for a restored . And plus, the and are most certainly not going to be increased for many reasons. More service is needed between Queens and Manhattan than between Manhattan and Brooklyn on the Astoria/Broadway/Sea Beach/Brighton side of town anyway.

Well in that case, they might as well have dropped the five car sets altogether, then. Doesn't make sense. 

Really, changing it to mostly four car sets limits options in the future, like expanding the to 10 cars (like if there's a lot of growth on the Fulton local, especially with the gentrification going on), or even switching the lines, like in a proposal for a Manhattan Bridge outage where the would replace the . It was supposed to be a few four car sets to fill out the . (Again, it should have just been a 160 option).

 

But they get into this "cutback" mode, and then "burn their bridges behind them", like reducing the capacity of Franklin (which would have worked with that plan in that scenario) or eliminating 72nd St. middle track.

 

Am I the only one hoping that the MTA gets rid of the FINDs? I think a better option would be to have an LCD screen where ethe FIND is and have that as a digital strip map. The strip maps can look just like the ones on the R142/R143 but instead, they would be digital and adjustable. For ex, when an operator changes from the to a , the screen just changes to show the line's strip maps. It would be easier to read than the pixelated text on a FIND and show all stops at once unlike what the FINDs, which cycle through stops that are more than 10 stops away.

The solution for that is OLED, which is having bendable version developed right now, being demonstrated in new phones and even TV's. So they could make a plastic card, just like the other ones with the ads, and it would display the line, stations, text and route bullets just like the route cards on the R142-3, only it would be glowing like an LCD, but even clearer.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Eric B

[LTA1992]

So? Simply put, the R179 is just going to be a minority in the fleet. It doesn't matter if it uses one or two out of the four 5-car R179 trains each day or whatever. Same happens with the R46s on the (when Montague is open), R42s on the and R160s on the . And the very same thing will happen with the R142As on the . Aside from East New York, every other shop in the subway system has one or two cars for regular maintaince/inspection. The already has enough trains for SAS anyway. I highly doubt that the run between 125 St-2 Av and Coney Island is longer than the run between Astoria and Coney Island. It would require slightly low amount of trains for that purpose, freeing enough cars for a restored . And plus, the and are most certainly not going to be increased for many reasons. More service is needed between Queens and Manhattan than between Manhattan and Brooklyn on the Astoria/Broadway/Sea Beach/Brighton side of town anyway.

If there were enough trains for SAS, then the 5-Car sets wouldnt be needed. Those 40 cars have been stated to be for the SAS because extra cars would be needed meet service demand. And if the just uses R160s for SAS, then whatever lines share those R160s need extra cars to fill that gap. Ergo, R179s. Because if you take cars off Jamaica, then R179s ave to fill that gap. Instead of sendig more R46s to Jamaica for the , the R179s would just go there istead.

 

To avoid all this debate, just put them in CI with the R160s for service. As long as ost of the parts are the same, which like it was for the R143 and 160, maintanence should ot be a problem. ESPECIALLY since CI is a yard that sees every time of car.

Edited March 7, 2014 by LTA1992

[RollOver]

Remember what AndrewJC said? Those four 5-car R179 trains are not just for opening up SAS, but to also maintain the current service levels on the Astoria, Broadway, Sea Beach and Brighton lines respectively. Meaning that: the and WILL NOT be increased and that the will be brought back. Nor will the do what the current does, which is having two branches.

[NewFlyer 230]

Why does everyone still question where the R179s are going? It obvious that's its going on the and pushing R46's to Jamaica. Then Coney Island gets a few R160's from Jamaica. Why do people think Coney Island is getting them when they could take Jamaica's R160 and have only R68/A and R160A/B. I thought the R179 5 car sets were suppose to prep Piktin for when they get the NTT's R211 trains. So it was not meant for the R179's to replace most of the R46's on the .

[LTA1992]

Remember what AndrewJC said? Those four 5-car R179 trains are not just for opening up SAS, but to also maintain the current service levels on the Astoria, Broadway, Sea Beach and Brighton lines respectively. Meaning that: the and WILL NOT be increased and that the will be brought back. Nor will the do what the current does, which is having two branches.

I don't care what AndrewJC said, I'm going off the documents most of us have already seen. The coming back is just speculation. You also don't know what the will do. I'm doubting that Phase 1 will have the type of patronage that negates the having two branches. Now, Phase 2 on the other hand, definitely  negates the need for two branches. At that point, I believe the will be brought back.

Edited March 7, 2014 by LTA1992