R179 Discussion Thread

[R68OnBroadway]

Just a question on the remaining 42s: Do you think they might become better performers if they are sent to CI or Pitkin? ENY seems to favor the 32s, 207 treats their grass better than their cars, and Jamaica decimated their 42s back in the 2000s.

[quadcorder]

R32 and R42 cannot run through Montague, or on lines which run through Montague in a diversion, nor can they run on the F due to the large number of passengers it handles.

[Bosco]

As it is, the R42s will probably be the first to go once the production R179s start to come in.

[R68OnBroadway]

Just now, Bosco said:

As it is, the R42s will probably be the first to go once the production R179s start to come in.

I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to hold the Fresh Pond R42s until the L shutdown is complete. They would probably retire 4 sets, keep 1 in storage, and have another as an emergency put-in. 

[R179 8258]

16 hours ago, quadcorder said:

R32 and R42 cannot run through Montague, or on lines which run through Montague in a diversion, nor can they run on the F due to the large number of passengers it handles.

Since when R32 can’t run on the  don’t the  and  runs the almost close the number of passengers 

[quadcorder]

42 minutes ago, R179 8258 said:

Since when R32 can’t run on the  don’t the  and  runs the almost close the number of passengers 

Sorry, wrong reason - they can't run on the F due to low MDBF and the way QBX issues would cascade far worse than Fulton or 8 Av issues.

[subwaycommuter1983]

At this point we just have to wait and see what happens with the  r179's. As a backup plan,  the MTA should consider purchasing additional articulated  (accordion) buses to run parallel to the G train because there will be a car shortage if the r179's aren't delivered by April 2019 when the Canarsie tunnel shuts down.

[R42N]

On October 29, 2017 at 7:53 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

At this point we just have to wait and see what happens with the  r179's. As a backup plan,  the MTA should consider purchasing additional articulated  (accordion) buses to run parallel to the G train because there will be a car shortage if the r179's aren't delivered by April 2019 when the Canarsie tunnel shuts down.

Agreed. For all the issues with the subways, the bus fleet instillation has been pretty good, and can be purchased and in-service in months, not years. That being said, this should be a back up to the back up plan, no one is going to want to take the  go to street level because of overcrowding on the , wait for a bus, go slower, and the go back on the street and walk to the Court Square station, when you can do that in-house on the subway. 

[Art Vandelay]

On 10/29/2017 at 7:53 PM, subwaycommuter1983 said:

At this point we just have to wait and see what happens with the  r179's. As a backup plan,  the MTA should consider purchasing additional articulated  (accordion) buses to run parallel to the G train because there will be a car shortage if the r179's aren't delivered by April 2019 when the Canarsie tunnel shuts down.

This would not be a sufficient backup plan. Without a significantly expanded G, the 14th shutdown probably can't happen. 

[Lance]

On ‎11‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 9:50 AM, R42N said:

Agreed. For all the issues with the subways, the bus fleet instillation has been pretty good, and can be purchased and in-service in months, not years. That being said, this should be a back up to the back up plan, no one is going to want to take the  go to street level because of overcrowding on the , wait for a bus, go slower, and the go back on the street and walk to the Court Square station, when you can do that in-house on the subway. 

Bus order turnaround is quicker because it's a bus and not an 8-10 car train. There isn't much to it besides ensuring the bus actually runs and can fit on city streets. Trains are a different monster entirely because of the track layout/dimensions, the signal system and a variety of other factors. That's why we're practically stuck with only two vendors at the moment. It's also why I'm hoping someone besides Kawasaki gets the R211 order, if not for anything else, than to provide some serious competition and an alternative to the status quo.

[Lawrence St]

I would just reroute some of the trains over Nassau to Midtown during tje 14th St shutdown to still give passengers a one seat ride to Manhattan, and elimnate the temporary during this time.

[RailRunRob]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I would just reroute some of the trains over Nassau to Midtown during tje 14th St shutdown to still give passengers a one seat ride to Manhattan, and elimnate the temporary during this time.

How would that work with fixed block signaling and CTBC? 

[RR503]

20 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I would just reroute some of the trains over Nassau to Midtown during tje 14th St shutdown to still give passengers a one seat ride to Manhattan, and elimnate the temporary during this time.

Would you really be willing to halve Jamaica Line service east of Bway Jct? All for 6 medium/low ridership stops? 

The  and  are already s#!+. They need service expansion not reduction. 

[P3F]

15 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

How would that work with fixed block signaling and CTBC? 

Presumably the same way as it does, when the  ends on the  platform at Broadway Junction for weekend or night construction.

[trainfan22]

14 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

How would that work with fixed block signaling and CTBC? 

During GO's L trains terminate on the J line platform at Broadway Junction, they relay at Chuncy Street middle track so the signalling shouldn't be an issue.

[Lance]

30 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

I would just reroute some of the trains over Nassau to Midtown during tje 14th St shutdown to still give passengers a one seat ride to Manhattan, and elimnate the temporary during this time.

That would be dependent on how many additional and trains are added in lieu of the truncated  service. If I recall correctly, the Williamsburg Bridge limits the amount of trains that can run on the Jamaica line.

23 minutes ago, RailRunRob said:

How would that work with fixed block signaling and CTBC? 

CBTC-enabled cars can run on non-CBTC tracks. It's the opposite that's the problem.

[Lawrence St]

46 minutes ago, RR503 said:

Would you really be willing to halve Jamaica Line service east of Bway Jct? All for 6 medium/low ridership stops? 

The  and  are already s#!+. They need service expansion not reduction. 

The isnt going to be needed at this time anyway, and anyone who lives around Broadway Junction can take the L to Bway Junction and take a Chambers St bound  train. With the already having boosted service, only 3  trips during rush hour will operate to Chambers St. This plan would have worked during the time that the was cut west of Bway Junction and the was already terminating at Bway Junction, instead of having two useless routes, combine them into one.

[Lance]

The will not be running to Broadway Junction during the Canarsie shutdown. Not unless there was some new information that I missed.

[RR503]

35 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

The isnt going to be needed at this time anyway, and anyone who lives around Broadway Junction can take the L to Bway Junction and take a Chambers St bound  train. With the already having boosted service, only 3  trips during rush hour will operate to Chambers St. This plan would have worked during the time that the was cut west of Bway Junction and the was already terminating at Bway Junction, instead of having two useless routes, combine them into one.

If you use any station east of broadway junction, you’re getting screwed for the benefit of railfans. The  and  are the only trains there, and if you cut the  for a zombie  you’re by definition reducing service (by half during rushes actually). 

Unless the MTA has decided to shut the myrtle ave el north of Myrtle, the  will be running to Metro. IE not broadway junction. Which is better, because then more  riders can benefit, as all between broadway jct and myrtle wyckoff can xfer there. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by RR503

[Lawrence St]

37 minutes ago, Lance said:

The will not be running to Broadway Junction during the Canarsie shutdown. Not unless there was some new information that I missed.

No, I'm saying there's an upcoming G.O where the  is going to be cut west of Bway Jct while the is terminating there, so it would be a good time to try this theory out. 

[RailRunRob]

1 hour ago, Lance said:

CBTC-enabled cars can run on non-CBTC tracks. It's the opposite that's the problem.

1

So, in essence, the CBTC train is code manual at that point?  That run to from Canarsie to Broadway Jct is it all manually? They do have some signaling south of the Junction for yard access. If it's both modes where's the breakpoint? At what point does the Operator acknowledge the computers taking over operations or Vice a Versa? Atlantic Ave?   

Edited November 2, 2017 by RailRunRob

[RailRunRob]

2 hours ago, trainfan22 said:

During GO's L trains terminate on the J line platform at Broadway Junction, they relay at Chuncy Street middle track so the signalling shouldn't be an issue.

But how do you merge Manual train operation..Into CBTC traffic? Wouldnt the ATO zone need to be expanded to the  Platform for it to safely enter? How does the backend controller know a train is coming from the Broadway line. Other trains would need to know.  Are we sure they just don't operate Manually during G.O's to Broadway JCT?  I don't know ATO systems to work that way without a entry point. I could be wrong been awhile.

[Lance]

That I cannot accurately answer. All I know is that the CBTC-equipped 143s and 160s can operate in CBTC-bypass mode, which they do when the trains appear on the line.

[Lawrence St]

CBTC mode can be put into bypass mode as the train is entering into non-CBTC territory. It can also be turned on once in range of transponders, in this case, right before Atlantic Avenue, however the train would need to stop so the operator can access it.

The only downside to this idea is that non-CBTC R160's can't utilize this (in such case the  ) because of the activation of CBTC on Canarsie.

[RailRunRob]

24 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

CBTC mode can be put into bypass mode as the train is entering into non-CBTC territory. It can also be turned on once in range of transponders, in this case, right before Atlantic Avenue, however the train would need to stop so the operator can access it.

The only downside to this idea is that non-CBTC R160's can't utilize this (in such case the  ) because of the activation of CBTC on Canarsie.

 

Okay, that makes sense kinda what I figured. That's what I know from other cities namely London with the Central and Jubilee upgrades they did it sections and the driver would switch over after a station stop at the beginning of the ATO zone. Would it be worth it is my question? So you have 480ft train halfway up the ramp having to switch into CBTC mode then im sure there's a wait for the backend system to place this train in reference to other trains along the line. Is the back of the train clear of the  platform? Is there a possible backup there on service?  There could also be a train leaving the upper level at that same time for all we know totally blind to the train ramping up that Broadway  would have to wait. They're going to be some type of bottleneck at the converging points   bothways don't think you could get around that. That's okay for weekend G.O's but rush hours?    

Edited November 2, 2017 by RailRunRob