SUBWAY - Random Thoughts Topic

[CenSin]

 can run solo. I meant   can run local once it gets to Barclay's Center. Why would the   go to 95 St? 

I suggest you create some semblance of a detailed plan before posting.

[I love Trains99]

I suggest you create some semblance of a detailed plan before posting.

I suggest you mind your business and stop being rude. 

We already established that service is necessary, and if you're suggesting reducing TPH to Queens for 9th Avenue service then you seriously need to re-evaluate things.

 

And what would local service do but increase unreliability on yet another route? Plus, that does nothing to help the Montague tubes or Lower Manhattan service.

 

to Brooklyn is the only real solution here. You can take 1-2 trains off of the and to support rush hour 9th Avenue service, since neither of those routes have as severe of an unreliability issue as the .

What are you saying?   would be just as unreliable as the   on 4 Av.

[Threxx]

I suggest you mind your business and stop being rude. 

 

He has a point nonetheless. You want to support the on 4th Avenue and in Lower Manhattan, but you have a flimsy idea of how to do so and can't support it properly. A more reasonable alternative [ to 9th Avenue] was proposed and you essentially wrote it off and ignored it.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Threxx

[I love Trains99]

He has a point nonetheless. You want to support the on 4th Avenue and in Lower Manhattan, but you have a flimsy idea of how to do so and can't support it properly. A more reasonable alternative [ to 9th Avenue] was proposed and you essentially wrote it off and ignored it.

You don't even know what he was talking about. He just came in being a a**hole. You can't even support your own claim that   should go to 9 Av.

[Threxx]

You don't even know what he was talking about. He just came in being a a**hole. You can't even support your own claim that   should go to 9 Av.

 

Let's see...

 

1. It runs directly with the in Manhattan, providing direct support for the route all the way to Lexington and 59th...

2. It is a lower frequency route already, not requiring as much rolling stock, and the extra trains required for the extension can easily be found and/or taken from other routes.

3. It doesn't have to deal with riders coming from a trunk in South Brooklyn since it would end right at 9th Avenue (which is the issue that making the local would cause).

 

Your idea...

 

1. Would create hell for scheduling the skip-stop properly.

2. Requires East New York yard to make more sets appear out of nowhere.

3. Would ultimately decrease reliability for riders in Queens.

 

You can't keep saying "eliminate the (Z)" because that isn't a reasonable option. (And even if you did, you'd have to address the other two issues, the 3rd of which is further exacerbated by eliminating the ) You can't take away service from other people to suit your own needs. 

 

It's not that I can't back up my idea, it's just that you don't want to pay attention to it.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Threxx

[checkmatechamp13]

The MTA should eliminate the    Skip Stop it's useless anyway's. And the Ridership ends at Fulton St.  needs assistance with 4 Av. And the Nassau St line is the only solution to solve that problem. 

 

I've been on trains with a decent amount of riders getting off at Broad Street. It's right near the SI Ferry and Wall Street.

 

And the skip-stop helps people who live further out along the save a few minutes of commuting time. 

[I love Trains99]

Let's see...

 

1. It runs directly with the in Manhattan, providing direct support for the route all the way to Lexington and 59th...

2. It is a lower frequency route already, not requiring as much rolling stock, and the extra trains required for the extension can easily be found and/or taken from other routes.

 

Your idea...

 

1. Would create hell for scheduling the skip-stop properly.

2. Requires East New York yard to make more sets appear out of nowhere.

3. Would ultimately decrease reliability for riders in Queens.

 

You can't keep saying "eliminate the (Z)" because that isn't a reasonable option. (And even if you did, you'd have to address the other two issues, the 3rd of which is further exacerbated by eliminating the ) You can't take away service from other people to suit your own needs. 

 

It's not that I can't back up my idea, it's just that you don't want to pay attention to it.

1. How is the   use equipment from the other lines besides  ? This means that if the extension going to be made the   will suffer because the   always borrowed cars from them.  

 

2.   can run solo to 9 Av without skip stop. It did that in Post 9/11 to Bay Ridge. All the ENY Yard has to do is give those extra sets they use for the  and give them all for the   to go to South Brooklyn. From 1976-1988   ran solo without the Skip-Stop and was doing fine. 40 stops is not that bad for a Local.  (J)/is just like / skip stop.  got discontinued because it was inefficient. Don't you think the  useless? Riders in Queens can use Q53 to Rockaway Blvd and catch the . 

I've been on trains with a decent amount of riders getting off at Broad Street. It's right near the SI Ferry and Wall Street.

 

And the skip-stop helps people who live further out along the save a few minutes of commuting time. 

You got a point.

[Threxx]

1. How is the   use equipment from the other lines besides  ? This means that if the extension going to be made the   will suffer because the   always borrowed cars from them.  

 

2.   can run solo to 9 Av without skip stop. It did that in Post 9/11 to Bay Ridge. All the ENY Yard has to do is give those extra sets they use for the  and give them all for the   to go to South Brooklyn. From 1976-1988   ran solo without the Skip-Stop and was doing fine. 40 stops is not that bad for a Local.  (J)/is just like / skip stop.  got discontinued because it was inefficient. Don't you think the  useless? Riders in Queens can use Q53 to Rockaway Blvd and catch the . 

 

1. I used the and as an example. I realized that taking from the would be difficult since the line there actually will require extra sets for Second Avenue service, but Coney Island has more surplus cars than East New York does on any day, so it's more feasible to try and get the cars for the than it is for the .

 

2.

 

Are you seriously taking post-9/11 service as a benchmark for permanent service?

 

Are you seriously taking service from 30+ years ago as a benchmark to decide current service?

 

It doesn't matter what I think, if the was useless then it damn well would have been eliminated by now like the was. The MTA has had multiple opportunities. to get rid of it and they haven't. And I definitely hope you aren't suggesting adding even more riders on to the overcrowded and, frankly, shit line.

 

Your location interests me. Considering you live in New Jersey, do you really have a handle of how Brooklyn subway service actually works? Based on this discussion I really don't think you do.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Threxx

[I love Trains99]

1. I used the and as an example. I realized that taking from the would be difficult since the line there actually will require extra sets for Second Avenue service, but Coney Island has more surplus cars than East New York does on any day, so it's more feasible to try and get the cars for the than it is for the .

 

2.

 

Are you seriously taking post-9/11 service as a benchmark for permanent service?

 

Are you seriously taking service from 30+ years ago as a benchmark to decide current service?

 

It doesn't matter what I think, if the was useless then it damn well would have been eliminated by now like the was. The MTA has had multiple opportunities. to get rid of it and they haven't. And I definitely hope you aren't suggesting adding even more riders on to the overcrowded and, frankly, shit line.

 

Your location interests me. Considering you live in New Jersey, do you really have a handle of how Brooklyn subway service actually works? Based on this discussion I really don't think you do.

Actually i live in Brooklyn.

 

Are you seriously taking post-9/11 service as a benchmark for permanent service? YUP

Are you seriously taking service from 30+ years ago as a benchmark to decide current service? YUP

 

Yup i want to throw those riders on that crowded . That's were all that ridership is at anyway's.

[Threxx]

Actually i live in Brooklyn.

 

Are you seriously taking post-9/11 service as a benchmark for permanent service? YUP

Are you seriously taking service from 30+ years ago as a benchmark to decide current service? YUP

 

Yup i want to throw those riders on that crowded . That's were all that ridership is at anyway's.

 

Then I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. You're clearly not being realistic about fixing the problem at all, and seem to be more interested in creating a bunch of other problems elsewhere.

[I love Trains99]

Then I'm not going to bother arguing with you anymore. You're clearly not being realistic about fixing the problem at all, and seem to be more interested in creating a bunch of other problems elsewhere.

It's not an argument. It really was never a argument in the first place. 

[Fresh Pond]

Let's keep it civil everyone...

[paulrivera]

You guys do know that there were some early bird trains that started in Brooklyn, and some late evening trains that terminated in Brooklyn, right?

 

They didn't seem terribly useful at the time since NB service was like in the 5-6am hour and SB service was around the 9pm hour, but it was something.

[paulrivera]

2. can run solo to 9 Av without skip stop. It did that in Post 9/11 to Bay Ridge. All the ENY Yard has to do is give those extra sets they use for the and give them all for the to go to South Brooklyn. From 1976-1988 ran solo without the Skip-Stop and was doing fine. 40 stops is not that bad for a Local. (J)/is just like / skip stop. got discontinued because it was inefficient. Don't you think the useless? Riders in Queens can use Q53 to Rockaway Blvd and catch the .

 

You got a point.

In 2001 we had a lot more R32's and R40/R42s and the R143s were on their way in. In other words, we had way more cars that could make an 8 car set for service back then.

 

Now, half the R32s are gone, all the R40s are gone as are most of the R42s, the R143s aren't enough to cover service, and the runs a longer route during the midday than it did back then. Plus, the R32s that were on the at the time were all replaced by trains that can't be cut down to 8 cars and be swapped into service.

 

We don't have enough 8 car equipment, period.

[checkmatechamp13]

You guys do know that there were some early bird trains that started in Brooklyn, and some late evening trains that terminated in Brooklyn, right?

 

They didn't seem terribly useful at the time since NB service was like in the 5-6am hour and SB service was around the 9pm hour, but it was something.

 

That was only to get to/from the CI Yard.

[Dj Hammers]

Secondly, after superstorm Sandy, there was apparently something installed that prevents traffic from entering the Montague tubes from Nassau Street for now. Likely something to do with the storm gates they said they were going to add.

To correct any misconceptions before they start to propagate, here is the real story regarding the Montague-Nassau connection.

 

The connection was flooded and damaged during Sandy. When they rebuilt the tube, the Nassau connection was one of the last things to be worked on, because its operational status didn't have a significant impact on operations, besides making a few yard transfers take a little longer to do. The connection was finally restored to service in early January of this year, and I have personally witnessed several work trains that have made use of the connection since then.

[Lance]

Also to correct another thing, skip-stop service on the Jamaica line was in effect from 1959 to 1985 and has been in place in its current formation since 1988. Skip-stop service was only suspended after the Jamaica elevated was cut back to 111 121 Street.

Edited April 18, 2016 by Lance
Jamaica elevated cut back to 121 St in '85

[Wallyhorse]

Also to correct another thing, skip-stop service on the Jamaica line was in effect from 1959 to 1985 and has been in place in its current formation since 1988. Skip-stop service was only suspended after the Jamaica elevated was cut back to 111 Street.

Actually 121st Street.

 

With regard to the issues with Brooklyn, that was why back in January I proposed this idea:

 

 

Actually, I modified my full-time   idea a bit where it still does its main job and also doesn't interfere much (if at all) with the  , with this   being a supplement to the  :

 

In this scenario, the   is truncated full-time to Chambers Street and terminates on the "express" tracks there since the   would pick up Broad and Fulton Streets with that line 24/7, running as follows:

 

Weekdays (5:30 AM-11:00 PM):

New   is essentially the old "Brown   Bankers Special," except this version would be running both ways between Chambers and 95th Street-Bay Ridge at all times.  During the week, coming north the line terminates on the northbound "local" track at Chambers, then after fumigation goes past the switches on the old northbound local/bridge track.  As soon as there is no traffic, such   trains would cross over to the southbound "local" track for the return trip to Brooklyn. 

 

All other times (11:00 PM-5:30 AM weekdays AND 11:00 PM Friday-5:30 AM Monday):

New   is extended to Metropolitan Avenue to absorb the current   shuttles during those hours, running from there to 95th Street. This also absorbs the current late-night   shuttle as well.

 

Probably the best way to at least address the Brooklyn issues as unless you were going to the NYSE or other places in lower Manhattan, most people would use this to where they transfer to other trains.

 

This would be where the would ALWAYS be scheduled to be right across the platform when the comes into Chambers, making for a simple cross-platform transfer between the two lines (and in reverse going back to Jamaica)

 

One modification to this I would do would be to have it where during rush hours, trains coming into Chambers NOT scheduled to meet a there would be designated as <J> and run to Broad Street (this would be since the would max at 8 TPH while the would still be 12 TPH at peak hours.   As for skip-stop, the would make one set of stops and the <J> would make the other set (the timing of the trains would be set up so even though most <J> trains would go to and start from Broad Street, they would still evenly operate skip-stop during that period, with two such <J> trains per hour if they are scheduled to meet a at Chambers still terminating there).  

 

It should be noted this was originally done before we knew the extent of the shutdown and how that is handled could affect this and other ideas.

[Lance]

Yeah, I meant 121 Street.

 

Regarding your idea, no matter how many times I see this and get annoyed at the repetition, I still cannot fathom why you insist the Chambers St-Bay Ridge line be designated as the . Since 1988, that letter has been synonymous with the Jamaica skip-stop services. It was especially chosen to eliminate the confusion on whether the train was making A-stops or B-stops. Now, you want to remove that convenience by labeling the B-stop variant as a diamond . Not only is that hard to display on the maps, it also screws up the "diamond equals express variant of a local service" mechanic that has been in place since 2005. Not that this is a good idea, but what's wrong with using an unused letter for your new service and leaving the current designations as they are? It's like you have some weird fixation on rearranging the route letters Chrystie St-style.

[S78 via Hylan]

While we're on the subject of the Skip-stop service, does anyone know why the started stopping at Alabama Av?

 

The two reasons I've heard the most were:

1. Heavy ridership (Didn't know the station was that busy).

2. Easier access to the depot and yard across for TA employees.

[Lance]

I'm pretty sure those are the reasons.

[Calvin]

While we're on the subject of the Skip-stop service, does anyone know why the started stopping at Alabama Av?

 

The two reasons I've heard the most were:

1. Heavy ridership (Didn't know the station was that busy).

2. Easier access to the depot and yard across for TA employees.

from those stated reasons, Alabama Av is actually by the depot and the Eastern Divison Yard , (bus connections included) .  

Edited April 18, 2016 by Calvin

[Javier]

Apparently Nassau just collided with Broadway,

 

http://s3.postimg.org/59tpxg7nn/image.jpg

[BronxBombers]

I'm surprised how well 34 St-Hudson Yards did in terms of ridership during its first year of opening

[Threxx]

I'm surprised how well 34 St-Hudson Yards did in terms of ridership during its first year of opening

 

Apparently the initial ridership was projected to be even higher, but development in the area has been relatively slow.

 

Comic-Con probably also helped.