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EE Broadway Local

BUS - Random Thoughts Thread

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1 hour ago, Brillant93 said:

Keep in mind thats the only route that goes to an airport in brooklyn. People also work there so they would need that bus and if it serves several areas you can't force people to transfer and spend more when they already have a route that is just one ride. If anything before the 15 goes select I would have the 15 have a sbs route then have the local end around the east new york area. 

Yes I agree with this. Almost like the B6 in a way, the Limiteds go to ENY while the locals terminate at Rockaway (L). 

Maybe have the local run to New Lots and Fountain? Then turn around right by Dumont? That way you'll have the limited/select making short distance but limited stops along Linden and then whatever is needed afterwards. It would only be stopping at major stops anways

Going towards the airport I would see the stops being...

-Woodhull Hosp.

-MGB/Lafayette 

-MGB/Gates

-MGB/Halsey

-MGB/Fulton

right on Fulton, left on Albany, left on Atlantic 

(should run on Atlantic instead of Dean)

-Atlantic/Utica

Right on Ralph

-Ralph/Eastern

-Ralph/Sutter (3) 

-E98/Church 

-Hegeman/Rockaway

-New Lots/ (L) train

(Now....I would personally say put the Select on Linden Blvd to avoid New Lots and its BS, but this is up for debate)

after the (L) stop, via New Lots, right on Alabama, left on Linden.

-Linden/Pennsylvania 

-Linden/Van Siclen

-Linden/Ashford

-Linden/Fountain 

-Linden/Eldert

-Linden/78th

-AirTrain Station 

all stops after the AirTrain station, but get rid of 130/Hangar Road Stop20.

 

Going towards the Hospital the same stops and current route from Airport to Linden/Pennsylvania, and then via Linden, into service road after Malta, right on Louisiana into Williams, left on New Lots to (L) train. Same route and stops until Ralph/Eastern Pkwy. Then via Ralph, left on Atlantic.

-Atlantic/Utica 

-Troy/Fulton

-Lewis/Halsey

-Lewis/Gates 

-Lewis/DeKalb

-Woodhull Hosp 

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888

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12 minutes ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

Yes I agree with this. Almost like the B6 in a way, the Limiteds go to ENY while the locals terminate at Rockaway (L). 

Maybe have the local run to New Lots and Fountain? Then turn around right by Dumont? That way you'll have the limited/select making short distance but limited stops along Linden and then whatever is needed afterwards. It would only be stopping at major stops anways

Going towards the airport I would see the stops being...

-Woodhull Hosp.

-MGB/Lafayette 

-MGB/Gates

-MGB/Halsey

-MGB/Fulton

right on Fulton, left on Albany, left on Atlantic*

(should run on Atlantic instead of Dean)

-Atlantic/Utica

Right on Ralph

-Ralph/Eastern

-Ralph/Sutter (3) 

-E98/Church 

-Hegeman/Rockaway

-New Lots/ (L) train

(Now....I would personally say put the Select on Linden Blvd to avoid New Lots and its BS, but this is up for debate)

after the (L) stop, via New Lots, right on Alabama, left on Linden.

-Linden/Pennsylvania 

-Linden/Van Siclen

-Linden/Ashford

-Linden/Fountain 

-Linden/Eldert

-Linden/78th

-AirTrain Station 

all stops after the AirTrain station, but get rid of 130/Hangar Road Stop20.

 

Going towards the Hospital the same stops and current route from Airport to Linden/Pennsylvania, and then via Linden, into service road after Malta, right on Louisiana into Williams, left on New Lots to (L) train. Same route and stops until Ralph/Eastern Pkwy. Then via Ralph, left on Atlantic.

-Atlantic/Utica 

-Troy/Fulton

-Lewis/Halsey

-Lewis/Gates 

-Lewis/DeKalb

-Woodhull Hosp 

You beat me to this. However, this was about the same thing I was thinking.

However, I see a slight issue with highlighted portion.. I would have that run up Albany to Eastern Parkway to Ralph heading towards the airport.

I'm in full agreement with the rest of the route. 

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11 hours ago, lara8710 said:

For a route operating between Brooklyn and JFK, the B15 is VERY long and prone to bunching. Some would say it should be split into two routes, while others would argue it needs a LTD service (the latter of which I disagree with). What could be done to improve the route's reliability?

Splitting a long route might have worked with the M10/20 back in the late 90s and for the M5/55 recently, but I'm not sure if it'll work for the B15...

Breaking up the M5 (S. Ferry - GWB) into the M5 (Midtown - GWB) & the M55 I would argue hasn't exactly worked (out for the better).... The M55 is having trouble attracting riders that the M5 once had..... They should've left the M5 ending on Houston & restructured the M6 (rename it to the M55, whatever) to reflect the changes to the traffic patterns (or lack thereof... Lol) on Broadway....

-------------------------------------

As for the topic at hand, I'd say the B15 doesn't need a LTD because there's too much intermediate usage on the route.... At the same time, it doesn't need to be broken up into two (or more) routes, as riders tend to ride longer distances on it than average....

They have EB buses either terminating at the movie theater (Drew) or at JFK.... They got it right with lifting the short turns from the Brooklyn GMF, to Drew....

However, they're not implementing that same logic for the opposite end of the route..... Every WB/NB trip runs to Woodhull (from either Drew or JFK) & there is no need for that..... As long as that remains to be the case, you're gonna get what you get with the B15....

If you want my opinion, I would still have (any trips running) the full route, running b/w Woodhull & JFK..... As far as EB trips go, trips ending at Drew & at T5 would remain - (however, I would have more trips running to JFK over short turning at Drew).... As far as WB/NB trips go, there would be trips either ending at Woodhull, St. Johns, or Fulton... Something else I suppose that can be looked at, is taking buses off of Buffalo altogether (both directions) & having buses utilize more of Ralph instead....

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1 hour ago, gravescend179 said:

you think MTA would use bi-articulated buses in the future ?

I believe there are regulations thatprevent the use of bi artics (or buses over 65 ft long?) without a waiver

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1 hour ago, gravescend179 said:

you think MTA would use bi-articulated buses in the future ?

Nope.

1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

(should run on Atlantic instead of Dean)

I get the logic, but this screams non-starter.

46 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I would have that run up Albany to Eastern Parkway to Ralph heading towards the airport.

Ouch.... This is pretty much saying f*** the B15's current stint in Weeksville.....

IDK about this one.... B15's have no business being around Utica/Eastern Pkwy.

Edited by B35 via Church

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3 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

Nope.

I get the logic, but this screams non-starter.

Ouch.... This is pretty much saying f*** the B15's current stint in Weeksville.....

IDK about this one.... B15's have no business being around Utica/Eastern Pkwy.

Yikes. I goofed off on this one. I totally forgetting the congestion around Utica/Eastern Parkway.

However, I wanted to see if there was a direct route. Throwing the 15 on St. Johns would of been OK. However, that faces the other congestion problem on Utica.

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6 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

Yikes. I goofed off on this one. I totally forgetting the congestion around Utica/Eastern Parkway.

However, I wanted to see if there was a direct route. Throwing the 15 on St. Johns would of been OK. However, that faces the other congestion problem on Utica.

I get you.

While I'm not on the B15 SBS bandwagon per se, Atlantic I have to say is a non-starter, Dean (current B15 EB route) is sluggish, and Eastern Pkwy. would have buses bypassing an entire community (that the current B15 serves)... So would St. Johns, but being a little fair, I think riders would be a little more apt to catching it on St. Johns as opposed to Eastern Pkwy.... And as was mentioned, the congestion issue as well....

Speaking of Eastern Pkwy/Utica, do you know why buses (B14/B17) doesn't make their first pickups on the service road anymore (unless they reverted it back to doing so)? I've been seeing them make their first pickups on the main road....

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1 minute ago, B35 via Church said:

I get you.

While I'm not on the B15 SBS bandwagon per se, Atlantic I have to say is a non-starter, Dean (current B15 EB route) is sluggish, and Eastern Pkwy. would have buses bypassing an entire community (that the current B15 serves)... So would St. Johns, but being a little fair, I think riders would be a little more apt to catching it on St. Johns as opposed to Eastern Pkwy.... And as was mentioned, the congestion issue as well....

Speaking of Eastern Pkwy/Utica, do you know why buses (B14/B17) doesn't make their first pickups on the service road anymore (unless they reverted it back to doing so)? I've been seeing them make their first pickups on the main road....

I've noticed that too. Especially during the rush hours. All pickups are on the main road. The swing bus is on the service road.

Late nights- 10PM-5AM service is on the service road. (From my observations as of late)

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8 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

I've noticed that too. Especially during the rush hours. All pickups are on the main road. The swing bus is on the service road.

Late nights- 10PM-5AM service is on the service road. (From my observations as of late)

Too bad the subway entrance isn't on that side of the road (service road... where those bootleggers peddle shit at)...

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3 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Breaking up the M5 (S. Ferry - GWB) into the M5 (Midtown - GWB) & the M55 I would argue hasn't exactly worked (out for the better).... The M55 is having trouble attracting riders that the M5 once had..... They should've left the M5 ending on Houston & restructured the M6 (rename it to the M55, whatever) to reflect the changes to the traffic patterns (or lack thereof... Lol) on Broadway....

-------------------------------------

As for the topic at hand, I'd say the B15 doesn't need a LTD because there's too much intermediate usage on the route.... At the same time, it doesn't need to be broken up into two (or more) routes, as riders tend to ride longer distances on it than average....

They have EB buses either terminating at the movie theater (Drew) or at JFK.... They got it right with lifting the short turns from the Brooklyn GMF, to Drew....

However, they're not implementing that same logic for the opposite end of the route..... Every WB/NB trip runs to Woodhull (from either Drew or JFK) & there is no need for that..... As long as that remains to be the case, you're gonna get what you get with the B15....

If you want my opinion, I would still have (any trips running) the full route, running b/w Woodhull & JFK..... As far as EB trips go, trips ending at Drew & at T5 would remain - (however, I would have more trips running to JFK over short turning at Drew).... As far as WB/NB trips go, there would be trips either ending at Woodhull, St. Johns, or Fulton... Something else I suppose that can be looked at, is taking buses off of Buffalo altogether (both directions) & having buses utilize more of Ralph instead....

With the B15, there definitely still needs to be local, but there should definitely be some express counterpart since people are taking that route long distance. That's why I feel the locals should run from Woodhull to somewhere around New Lots and Fountain/Dumont (with a Westbound short turn like you stated). The limited or select would take over the Eastern part. I feel you don't need the limited or select stopping anywhere along Dean or that mess it goes through to get to Eastern Parkway. That's why I would suggest running it down Atlantic, stopping at Utica and then Ralph/Eastern Pkwy. The local would still serve that little community along with the other buses that run through there. Linden Blvd needs bus service, and with the (3) being close to New Lots, you wouldn't need the 15 and the limited varient all on there. It would be similar to the B44/select varient on Rodgers instead of New York. A route like that needs to move from A to B fast and efficiently, and while yes there's people getting on all over the place and getting off all over the place, it's normally at big cross streets for the most part. I could promise you select would work on that route, as long as they modify the route a little and terminate the local somewhere before Fountain. This is one Brooklyn route that I cannot wait to see what goes into affect with it. 

Edited by XcelsiorBoii4888

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1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

With the B15, there definitely still needs to be local, but there should definitely be some express counterpart since people are taking that route long distance. That's why I feel the locals should run from Woodhull to somewhere around New Lots and Fountain/Dumont (with a Westbound short turn like you stated). The limited or select would take over the Eastern part. I feel you don't need the limited or select stopping anywhere along Dean or that mess it goes through to get to Eastern Parkway. That's why I would suggest running it down Atlantic, stopping at Utica and then Ralph/Eastern Pkwy. The local would still serve that little community along with the other buses that run through there. Linden Blvd needs bus service, and with the (3) being close to New Lots, you wouldn't need the 15 and the limited varient all on there. It would be similar to the B44/select varient on Rodgers instead of New York. A route like that needs to move from A to B fast and efficiently, and while yes there's people getting on all over the place and getting off all over the place, it's normally at big cross streets for the most part. I could promise you select would work on that route, as long as they modify the route a little and terminate the local somewhere before Fountain. This is one Brooklyn route that I cannot wait to see what goes into affect with it. 

There should be more B15 trips throughout the day that don't run the full route (Woodhull - JFK & vice versa) than those that do... I would look into that first & foremost..... Yeah, everybody wants fast & efficient, but the reality is, everybody actually getting it, aint realistic..... I wanna live high off the hog in a house on the hill too with fine bit... women feeding me grapes with no strings attached fuc coitus too, but that aint hahhnin....

Conceptually speaking, I can't get on board with all this diverting that a B15 SBS of sorts would do (via Atlantic [you] or via Eastern Pkwy [Future ENY OP] & via Linden Blvd instead of via New Lots).... Way I see it is, if you gotta do all that, then f*** it, aint worth it.... What you've posed here, I quantify as more than just a little modification - matter fact, I think it's quite significant (just as significant as the B44 NB diversion, but I've made enough posts about that over the years)..... You're banking on the current B15 riders being willing enough to catch/disembark buses along those streets of diversion to benefit from however fast & efficient it'd end up being over the locals....

You give a compelling argument, but at the same time, that's what I believe that's being overlooked.....

Just as sure as you sound that the service would work, I'm just as sure as saying that there would be too much of a loss of ridership on an SBS of sorts compared to the local (well, the current B15)... How much are you willing to sacrifice? (rhetorical)..... Telling me that the current B15 is normally big at major intersections (which is what I think you mean) isn't telling me much of anything - matter fact, it's minimizing all the riders that board at some intermediate stop to xfer for the subway (or vice versa; get off the subway to take the B15 to some intermediate bus stop)... It sounds to me like you're conveying that the B15 is more of a "transfer" route (slang term around these parts meaning, it getting most of its ridership off other connecting bus routes) than it isn't, and if so, I have to say that's simply not true.... There has been many times I found myself taking the thing from Church (av) to JFK saying to myself, everybody getting off one stop after the other (or something equivalent).... At the same time, (I) can't do too much complaining on that note because these people are actually using "their" route - in great numbers, I might add.....

Those of us that post on here all have visions as to how service can be made better, but at the same time, we need be careful what we wish for at times (myself included).....

 

....and yo, If i see one more post of somebody referencing Brooklyn Bus' ideas that Methuselah himself gave him dap on.... I mean god damn, with as much as @BrooklynBusC99 references that site, there was noooooo reason for Lara to have posted that like it's breaking news or some isht.....

Edited by B35 via Church
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7 hours ago, B35 via Church said:

Those of us that post on here all have visions as to how service can be made better, but at the same time, we need be careful what we wish for at times (myself included).....

 

What you just said @B35 via Church has a valid point.  Trust and believe whatever we want and say can have a major effect especially the good folks at 2 Broadway.

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6 hours ago, Bay Ridge Express said:

Let's say we had an actual "Airport Bus" from Brooklyn. Where would that go from? Atlantic? 😧 

There’s lots of those I.e shuttles. The Q70 is the LGA link. I wouldn’t be surprised if the B15 sbs would be called JFK link but on the other hand it serves communities so branding it as an airport bus would be a waste. 

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The LFS has been the only bus model Nova has had since the RTS?? 

When do they plan on switching the design?

Manufacturers like New Flyer went through the LF, LFR , LFA, the Invero, the Xcelsior, and the MiDi models, and probably more I didn't recall off the top of my head. 

I was thinking about why the 2011 models aren't receiving upgrades and I realized buses usually get retired as early as 12 years, so that's 2023 or a minimum 4 years left for some 2011 models. I wonder if we'll see some Xcelsiors/LFS get replaced with more Xcelsiors/LFS. 

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1 hour ago, XcelsiorBoii4888 said:

The LFS has been the only bus model Nova has had since the RTS?? 

When do they plan on switching the design?

Manufacturers like New Flyer went through the LF, LFR , LFA, the Invero, the Xcelsior, and the MiDi models, and probably more I didn't recall off the top of my head. 

I was thinking about why the 2011 models aren't receiving upgrades and I realized buses usually get retired as early as 12 years, so that's 2023 or a minimum 4 years left for some 2011 models. I wonder if we'll see some Xcelsiors/LFS get replaced with more Xcelsiors/LFS. 

We have 2010 models: 12xx series buses that are still in SBS service. I definitely see those buses retiring soon too along with the 2011 models. The Bronx 12xx buses 1201-1232 have been repainted and rehabbed in some sort. I wonder where the MCH 12xx buses will transfer to next once they receive XD60's? TU/100, WF, KB or GH?

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4 minutes ago, Future ENY OP said:

We have 2010 models: 12xx series buses that are still in SBS service. I definitely see those buses retiring soon too along with the 2011 models. The Bronx 12xx buses 1201-1232 have been repainted and rehabbed in some sort. I wonder where the MCH 12xx buses will transfer to next once they receive XD60's? TU/100, WF, KB or GH?

Most likely all of them to get rid of the remaining D60HFs.

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Can't wait for those 1200s to be withdrawn from M15 +SBS+.... I do wish they'd replace them with more LFS artics, Why they insist on putting XD60's on SBS is beyond me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the XD60's, I tend to feel the LFS artic are better suited to +SBS+ service.

Edited by Missabassie

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2 hours ago, Missabassie said:

Can't wait for those 1200s to be withdrawn from M15 +SBS+.... I do wish they'd replace them with more LFS artics, Why they insist on putting XD60's on SBS is beyond me.

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the XD60's, I tend to feel the LFS artic are better suited to +SBS+ service.

I agree, especially since the back doors open just like the front doors. I just wish the back doors were wide like the front since it's all door boarding. But MTA logic. 

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