More Country Club Complaints about the Bx24

[mark1447]

Those Cuntry Club folk can't get along with anyone anywhere....You send the Bx23 down there and they'll have a shit fit.... I say, just cut ALL bus service from those bastards!

 

The easiest solution is to reintroduce the Bx14 sans Parkchester. or extend the Bx24

 

I wouldn't imagine, what ill happen if the Bx24 was pushed to the curb and make it the BX14 loop. I bet they will be happy but now they are gonna want it to go Westchetser Sq.. And soon who knows if they are gonna want Parkchester access lol. They seem to love the 14 bus too much..

 

Yeah give them the 14 bus or extend the 24, but KEEP IT 1 bus the whole way .

 

The hell with them, make them buy a car, walk, or bike instead..

 

When i first discovered country club years ago on the map, i thought it was like a special city in the Bronx. When i made my first ride last yr (yeah late but did Googles street views yrs ago lol), it was nothing but houses and nothing else. Stores like 1 or 2.. Just a boring place to be..

[DanTheTransitMan]

Get these people the hell outa here!!! They would complain if they got MCI's on their damn Bx24. They would complain if the Bx24 had 4 minute head-ways. These types of people complain about everything. The Bx24 is fine the way it is!

[Amtrak7]

Let's see:

 

-They want direct service to a commercial destination: reasonable

-They want daily service with sufficient frequency: everyone wants that

-They don't want too many buses running through their neighborhood: the only other place I've heard that was the Hamptons

-They want fewer bus stops: what???

 

8,171 residents in Bx24 encatchment area:

 

332 weekday passengers (4.06% utilization) / 34 weekday round trips = average 9 persons per bus. Even if you account for the peak:base ratio (which doesn't exist in terms of headway here), I doubt many buses are running with full seated loads. $4.27 a rider isn't THAT bad.

 

233 weekend passengers. Assuming Sunday = 70% Saturday, Saturday = 137 (1.67% utilization) and Sunday = 96 (1.2% utilization). 34 trips per day (why is the span still the same?)

 

Saturday = 7 people/round trip

Sunday = 3 people/round trip

 

Weekend service costs 233*10.27*55 = $131,600 a year!

 

The (hopefully) cost neutral solution I see here is to eliminate weekend service and reroute the weekday service to serve Westchester Sq without serving PBP at all. Also reduce the span of service by 1-2 trips in the morning/evening.

 

If weekend service must continue, drastically reduce its span by ~2.5 hours in the morning and 1 hour in the evening. Pelham Bay Park only and seriously consider hourly morning/Sunday service. The low usage percentages may mean off-peak elasticity is really high (due to car ownership) and ridership may plummet easily with the slightest service cut. The only time transit can be a nonelastic good is during the rush hour. Hence why I don't think the idea of hourly Sunday service is going to be better than no weekend service in the long run.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Let's see:

 

-They want direct service to a commercial destination: reasonable

-They want daily service with sufficient frequency: everyone wants that

-They don't want too many buses running through their neighborhood: the only other place I've heard that was the Hamptons

-They want fewer bus stops: what???

 

8,171 residents in Bx24 encatchment area:

 

332 weekday passengers (4.06% utilization) / 34 weekday round trips = average 9 persons per bus. Even if you account for the peak:base ratio (which doesn't exist in terms of headway here), I doubt many buses are running with full seated loads. $4.27 a rider isn't THAT bad.

 

233 weekend passengers. Assuming Sunday = 70% Saturday, Saturday = 137 (1.67% utilization) and Sunday = 96 (1.2% utilization). 34 trips per day (why is the span still the same?)

 

Saturday = 7 people/round trip

Sunday = 3 people/round trip

 

Weekend service costs 233*10.27*55 = $131,600 a year!

 

The (hopefully) cost neutral solution I see here is to eliminate weekend service and reroute the weekday service to serve Westchester Sq without serving PBP at all. Also reduce the span of service by 1-2 trips in the morning/evening.

 

If weekend service must continue, drastically reduce its span by ~2.5 hours in the morning and 1 hour in the evening. Pelham Bay Park only and seriously consider hourly morning/Sunday service. The low usage percentages may mean off-peak elasticity is really high (due to car ownership) and ridership may plummet easily with the slightest service cut. The only time transit can be a nonelastic good is during the rush hour. Hence why I don't think the idea of hourly Sunday service is going to be better than no weekend service in the long run.

 

 

Yeah of course you'd cut weekend service and leave them w/nothing... That's exactly why they need to remain vocal otherwise folks like you will have no problem seeing yet another upscale neighborhood lose their bus service. :mad: :tdown: Let's talk about how much farebeating costs on a line like the B46 and then come back to me and talk about waste...

[checkmatechamp13]

Let's see:

 

-They want direct service to a commercial destination: reasonable

-They want daily service with sufficient frequency: everyone wants that

-They don't want too many buses running through their neighborhood: the only other place I've heard that was the Hamptons

-They want fewer bus stops: what???

 

8,171 residents in Bx24 encatchment area:

 

Weekend service costs 233*10.27*55 = $131,600 a year!

 

The (hopefully) cost neutral solution I see here is to eliminate weekend service and reroute the weekday service to serve Westchester Sq without serving PBP at all. Also reduce the span of service by 1-2 trips in the morning/evening.

 

If weekend service must continue, drastically reduce its span by ~2.5 hours in the morning and 1 hour in the evening. Pelham Bay Park only and seriously consider hourly morning/Sunday service. The low usage percentages may mean off-peak elasticity is really high (due to car ownership) and ridership may plummet easily with the slightest service cut. The only time transit can be a nonelastic good is during the rush hour. Hence why I don't think the idea of hourly Sunday service is going to be better than no weekend service in the long run.

 

The second and third points contradict each other. They want sufficient frequency but not too much frequency. What kind of BS is that?

 

And like I said, if the point is to satisfy them, then rerouting the bus away from Pelham Bay Park is going to just keep them complaining, as that would mean they've lost their ADA-accessable station (in the long run, it would be cheaper for the MTA to add an elevator to the Tremont Avenue station and call it a day)

 

Then again, now that I think about it, the areas along the Bx8 and Bx40/42 don't have access to any ADA-accessable stations and they do just fine (but putting in the elevator at Tremont Avenue would help them out as well)

 

As far as hourly service goes, the whole loop takes 19 minutes, so there wouldn't be any savings by running service every hour (people actually proposed that for the old S60). In that case, the marginal cost of making the extra trip is easily offset by additional ridership.

 

Yeah of course you'd cut weekend service and leave them w/nothing... That's exactly why they need to remain vocal otherwise folks like you will have no problem seeing yet another upscale neighborhood lose their bus service. :mad: :tdown: Let's talk about how much farebeating costs on a line like the B46 and then come back to me and talk about waste...

 

First of all, there are plenty of areas that were left with "nothing" that need (and use) the service more.

 

Second of all, they wouldn't even be left with nothing: They could walk over to Bruckner Blvd and catch the Q50 if they really need bus service. Hell, some of them could even walk down to Dean Avenue/Layton Avenue and catch the Bx8.

 

Not to mention that Country Club isn't even that affluent. I have stats to prove that, but even just walking around the neighborhood, you don't see huge mansions or fancy penthouses or anything. The houses look nice, but there are plenty of areas on SI that are like that and they really aren't considered "affluent".

 

Your definition of poor, middle-class, and affluent areas are really weird to me.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

First of all, there are plenty of areas that were left with "nothing" that need (and use) the service more.

 

Second of all, they wouldn't even be left with nothing: They could walk over to Bruckner Blvd and catch the Q50 if they really need bus service. Hell, some of them could even walk down to Dean Avenue/Layton Avenue and catch the Bx8.

 

 

Excuse me, but it is well known that there are many elderly folks live in the Country Club, so any additional walking will put a strain on them much like the loss of the S60 and S54 put a strain on the elderly in those neighborhoods... Based on your tactics, many poor areas wouldn't have many services because they pay little in taxes. These people pay more than their fare share in taxes and therefore they are due the service unlike other areas that just rob us taxpayers blind. I mean so what... One area uses their buses more than another, but they have rampid farebeating which increases costs, which both you, Amtrak and the like to leave out constantly. I'd rather run bus service for the Country Club than give bus service to areas where farebeating is rampid. :mad:

[checkmatechamp13]

Excuse me, but it is well known that there are many elderly folks live in the Country Club, so any additional walking will put a strain on them much like the loss of the S60 and S54 put a strain on the elderly in those neighborhoods... Based on your tactics, many poor areas wouldn't have many services because they pay little in taxes. These people pay more than their fare share in taxes and therefore they are due the service unlike other areas that just rob us taxpayers blind. I mean so what... One area uses their buses more than another, but they have rampid farebeating which increases costs, which both you, Amtrak and the like to leave out constantly. I'd rather run bus service for the Country Club than give bus service to areas where farebeating is rampid. :mad:

 

All low-ridership services have a lot of elderly folks (as a percentage of the total ridership at least).

 

And what are you talking about "poor areas wouldn't have any service". I repeatedly say that service should be given based on demand, not how many taxes are paid. Do Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, and Lighthouse Hill have bus service? I'm sure those people pay a lot of taxes.

 

You simply refuse to accept the whole point of taxes which is to help the overall good. You want to think about it this way: Those people would not be able to earn those high incomes without society, and therefore they are expected to give the most back. Maybe not percentage-wise (because there are ways around the graduated tax system), but in sheer numbers.

 

Like I said, you really want to inconvenience 47,000 riders on the B46 just because 3,000 aren't paying? It's a cost of doing business and I'm sure some of those farebeaters really can't afford to pay and are doing something useful. If I didn't have that Student MetroCard, how was I supposed to get to that (unpaid) internship in Manhattan? Or the volunteer jobs in Mariners' Harbor and Snug Harbor? I wouldn't have went and society would be worse off for it (even if it's minutely worse, but then again, a bus fare is even more trivial to society)

 

And farebeating doesn't increase costs. The bus costs the same to operate whether the person rides or not. It just doesn't increase revenue.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

All low-ridership services have a lot of elderly folks (as a percentage of the total ridership at least).

 

And what are you talking about "poor areas wouldn't have any service". I repeatedly say that service should be given based on demand, not how many taxes dare paid. Do Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, and Lighthouse Hill have bus service? I'm sure those people pay a lot of taxes.

 

You simply refuse to accept the whole point of taxes which is to help the overall good. You want to think about it this way: Those people would not be able to earn those high incomes without society, and therefore they are expected to give the most back. Maybe not percentage-wise (because there are ways around the graduated tax system), but in sheer numbers.

 

Like I said, you really want to inconvenience 47,000 riders on the B46 just because 3,000 aren't paying? It's a cost of doing business and I'm sure some of those farebeaters really can't afford to pay and are doing something useful. If I didn't have that Student MetroCard, how was I supposed to get to that (unpaid) internship in Manhattan? Or the volunteer jobs in Mariners' Harbor and Snug Harbor? I wouldn't have went and society would be worse off for it (even if it's minutely worse, but then again, a bus fare is even more trivial to society)

 

And farebeating doesn't increase costs. The bus costs the same to operate whether the person rides or not. It just doesn't increase revenue.

 

 

 

So let me get this straight... You'd rather let 3,000 farebeaters use the system, but you're fine with axing service for the elderly who NEED the service and PAY for it? That's reprehensible. :mad::tdown: And another thing that you assume is that these farebeaters are somehow "outstanding" citizens. Where do you get this idea from that they're beating the fare and somehow doing something "positive" for society? I got news for you. Many of those farebeaters wind up getting involved in more serious problems and become even more of a financial burden on taxpayers and society as a whole. You keep bringing this up and using yourself as an example as if all farebeaters are like you. You are quite naïve in thinking that. You make it sound like all of these farebeaters are so responsible otherwise, as if they're all just on hard times. What a load of BS. They just want to beat the system and not pay and you sit here and defend them and then advocate for cutting bus service to areas that DO pay their fare while these farebeaters are in most cases costing taxpayers far more money aside from their farebeating.

 

Why don't you pull up the stats on farebeaters and what other crimes many of them commit like robbery and so on, which leads to additional funds needed from taxpayers to prosecute them, feed them and house them while they're in jail and so on??

[checkmatechamp13]

So let me get this straight... You'd rather let 3,000 farebeaters use the system, but you're fine with axing service for the elderly who NEED the service and PAY for it? That's reprehensible. :mad::tdown: And another thing that you assume is that these farebeaters are somehow "outstanding" citizens. Where do you get this idea from that they're beating the fare and somehow doing something "positive" for society? I got news for you. Many of those farebeaters wind up getting involved in more serious problems and become even more of a financial burden on taxpayers and society as a whole. You keep bringing this up and using yourself as an example as if all farebeaters are like you. You are quite naïve in thinking that. You make it sound like all of these farebeaters are so responsible otherwise, as if they're all just on hard times. What a load of BS. They just want to beat the system and not pay and you sit here and defend them and then advocate for cutting bus service to areas that DO pay their fare while these farebeaters are in most cases costing taxpayers far more money aside from their farebeating.

 

Why don't you pull up the stats on farebeaters and what other crimes many of them commit like robbery and so on, which leads to additional funds needed from taxpayers to prosecute them, feed them and house them while they're in jail and so on??

 

Yeah, but their payment is nowhere near covering the costs of operating the service. The Bx24 costs $10.47 on the weekends, and the seniors pay $1.10. Sure, they're being honest, but a farebeater taking $2.25 worth of services is cheaper to run a service for (actually, the B46 costs something like $1.15 per passenger)

 

Yeah, many of them are going to wind up being drains on society, but out of those farebeaters, I'm sure at least some of them are riding the bus to do something useful. The problem is that we can't seperate them into the ones doing something useful (if nothing else, going to school), the ones riding for no purpose, and the ones riding the bus to commit a crime. That much I'll agree with you on.

 

As far as them ending up in jail, the cost is so much that what's a few bus rides added in?

[qjtransitmaster]

Excuse me, but it is well known that there are many elderly folks live in the Country Club, so any additional walking will put a strain on them much like the loss of the S60 and S54 put a strain on the elderly in those neighborhoods... Based on your tactics, many poor areas wouldn't have many services because they pay little in taxes. These people pay more than their fare share in taxes and therefore they are due the service unlike other areas that just rob us taxpayers blind. I mean so what... One area uses their buses more than another, but they have rampid farebeating which increases costs, which both you, Amtrak and the like to leave out constantly. I'd rather run bus service for the Country Club than give bus service to areas where farebeating is rampid. :mad:

err the S60 is now the 66 get over it and use it!!!!!!! S54 ok it should be a rerouted S42 nuff said at least for manor rd.

 

All low-ridership services have a lot of elderly folks (as a percentage of the total ridership at least).

 

And what are you talking about "poor areas wouldn't have any service". I repeatedly say that service should be given based on demand, not how many taxes are paid. Do Todt Hill, Emerson Hill, and Lighthouse Hill have bus service? I'm sure those people pay a lot of taxes.

 

You simply refuse to accept the whole point of taxes which is to help the overall good. You want to think about it this way: Those people would not be able to earn those high incomes without society, and therefore they are expected to give the most back. Maybe not percentage-wise (because there are ways around the graduated tax system), but in sheer numbers.

 

Like I said, you really want to inconvenience 47,000 riders on the B46 just because 3,000 aren't paying? It's a cost of doing business and I'm sure some of those farebeaters really can't afford to pay and are doing something useful. If I didn't have that Student MetroCard, how was I supposed to get to that (unpaid) internship in Manhattan? Or the volunteer jobs in Mariners' Harbor and Snug Harbor? I wouldn't have went and society would be worse off for it (even if it's minutely worse, but then again, a bus fare is even more trivial to society)

 

And farebeating doesn't increase costs. The bus costs the same to operate whether the person rides or not. It just doesn't increase revenue.

well said IT'S SO SIMPLE IF YOU WANT YOUR BUS USE YOUR LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

So let me get this straight... You'd rather let 3,000 farebeaters use the system, but you're fine with axing service for the elderly who NEED the service and PAY for it? That's reprehensible. :mad::tdown: And another thing that you assume is that these farebeaters are somehow "outstanding" citizens. Where do you get this idea from that they're beating the fare and somehow doing something "positive" for society? I got news for you. Many of those farebeaters wind up getting involved in more serious problems and become even more of a financial burden on taxpayers and society as a whole. You keep bringing this up and using yourself as an example as if all farebeaters are like you. You are quite naïve in thinking that. You make it sound like all of these farebeaters are so responsible otherwise, as if they're all just on hard times. What a load of BS. They just want to beat the system and not pay and you sit here and defend them and then advocate for cutting bus service to areas that DO pay their fare while these farebeaters are in most cases costing taxpayers far more money aside from their farebeating.

 

Why don't you pull up the stats on farebeaters and what other crimes many of them commit like robbery and so on, which leads to additional funds needed from taxpayers to prosecute them, feed them and house them while they're in jail and so on??

 

Seriously you threw me off back there stop!!!!!

 

Oh please if you ppl were so serious about your bus your bus lines wouldn't carry air or 4 ppl!!!!!!! If you ppl are so adament about your service then you will USE IT WELL!!!!!!!!!!!

[qjtransitmaster]

To me, the easiest solution would be to combine this with the Bx23---as follows:

 

PHB (Bruckner Boulevard)-1-2-3-4-Bay Plaza-5-PHB (Westchester Avenue)-Westchester-Crosby-Middletown-Jarvis/Country Club, and then in and out of Country Club only on Stadium Avenue. Terminate at Country Club Road---if they need Westchester Square, they can transfer at Crosby Avenue to the Bx8.

Sorry guys but MTA already rejected that idea!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats what i thought. Combine the BX23/24 into one, but i heard people in Country Club cant stand those of Co-Op City.

 

I know I suggested the same thing to an MTA board member in person at a discussion.

[checkmatechamp13]

err the S60 is now the 66 get over it and use it!!!!!!! S54 ok it should be a rerouted S42 nuff said at least for manor rd.

 

The S66 doesn't run weekends. I'm not saying the S60 shouldn't have been cut, but for those 90 riders on the weekends, it is an inconvenience.

 

As far as using the service goes, like I said, you can't blame the people who are using the service for the low ridership. It's just the nature of the beast, and there isn't much the riders or the MTA can do about it.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

As far as them ending up in jail, the cost is so much that what's a few bus rides added in?

 

 

Booohhh... :mad::tdown::tdown:

 

 

err the S60 is now the 66 get over it and use it!!!!!!! S54 ok it should be a rerouted S42 nuff said at least for manor rd.

 

well said IT'S SO SIMPLE IF YOU WANT YOUR BUS USE YOUR LINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Seriously you threw me off back there stop!!!!!

 

Oh please if you ppl were so serious about your bus your bus lines wouldn't carry air or 4 ppl!!!!!!! If you ppl are so adament about your service then you will USE IT WELL!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

As for you, you're like a broken record... We know we know... All folks who use the bus are lazy, but at the same time they need to use their buses more...

[qjtransitmaster]

Booohhh... :mad::tdown::tdown:

 

 

 

 

 

As for you, you're like a broken record... We know we know... All folks who use the bus are lazy, but at the same time they need to use their buses more...

 

That is not what I am saying this time. What I am saying is if you are serious about your route then you ppl would never have it running empty most of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't want your line cut FILL UP YOUR LINES!!!!!!!!!!! Don't just sit on ur ass and watch the buses pass and then get in ur car or walk all day then complain when the line you don't use gets cut. You ppl in brooklyn are not serious about your BM lines how do I know cause they carry air on saturdays and nights get real ppl!!!!!!

[checkmatechamp13]

Booohhh... :mad::tdown::tdown:

 

 

 

Good thing I'm not going to become a comedian.

 

That is not what I am saying this time. What I am saying is if you are serious about your route then you ppl would never have it running empty most of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't want your line cut FILL UP YOUR LINES!!!!!!!!!!! Don't just sit on ur ass and watch the buses pass and then get in ur car or walk all day then complain when the line you don't use gets cut. You ppl in brooklyn are not serious about your BM lines how do I know cause they carry air on saturdays and nights get real ppl!!!!!!

 

But the problem is that those few people on the bus aren't using their cars.

[SoSpectacular]

Country Club already had their chance when the Bx8 ran through their hood. That's enough. They wanted service, they got it. Didn't like the noise, they got it re-routed again.

 

It doesn't work that way. Can't have your cake and eat it too. Sorry!

[Via Garibaldi 8]

That is not what I am saying this time. What I am saying is if you are serious about your route then you ppl would never have it running empty most of the time!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you don't want your line cut FILL UP YOUR LINES!!!!!!!!!!! Don't just sit on ur ass and watch the buses pass and then get in ur car or walk all day then complain when the line you don't use gets cut. You ppl in brooklyn are not serious about your BM lines how do I know cause they carry air on saturdays and nights get real ppl!!!!!!

 

Oh please... That is a lie... They do NOT carry air at night.... If they did then they would not have Super Expresses.

[B35 via Church]

You ppl in brooklyn are not serious about your BM lines how do I know cause they carry air on saturdays and nights get real ppl!!!!!!

 

carry air on nights, yeah GFY....

 

I just came off a BM1 little over half an hour ago (yes, that's right, a bus that reached schenectady/av K AFTER 11pm) that had 13 ppl. on it as we entered the BBT.....

[IRT Bronx Express]

A Bx14 revival makes no sense anymore since the Bx4A is performing well. Had the people from Country club not bitch about the excessive Bx8 headways and the "loud noise" from the Orion 7 CNG's, this wouldn't be an issue at all. The Bx14 was around before the 2010 service cuts... they should've protested to keep the Bx14, and that would've been the only way to reach Westchester Sq today. If they want to bitch and moan and continue to be ungrateful, I say give them no bus service at all.

[r40s 4501]

All the people want is a bus from point A to point B and and not a ,b,c,d ther why i see (Bx14) come back

[pjbr40]

It amazing that these people at this golf club is complaining. I don't hear a peep about the Dyker Height Golf club. Wow one club complain more then the other. Those golfer should play up in the mountain if they want quiet.

[checkmatechamp13]

It amazing that these people at this golf club is complaining. I don't hear a peep about the Dyker Height Golf club. Wow one club complain more then the other. Those golfer should play up in the mountain if they want quiet.

 

This isn't a golf club, it's an actual neighborhood. I don't even think there's a golf club within the neighborhood.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, the Country Club doesn't have a gold course, but there is a golf course not too far away further north. In any event, the golf course in Dyker Heights is rather isolated for most part in terms of tons of traffic, so that's a moot point. The Country Club is also in an isolated area and those folks just want their neighborhood to remain the upscale place that it is and they don't want it ruined with tons of traffic and outsiders and such. That's what I like about Riverdale. You've got Van Cortlandt Park on one side and then the water on the other side, which makes Riverdale somewhat isolated as well. Yeah the supermarkets pretty much suck along with the restaurants, but that's good in a way. Keeps the neighborhood nice and quiet and since it's pricey to live there the neighborhood keeps its charm. Having outsiders come in can just destroy a neighborhood.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

No, the Country Club doesn't have a gold course, but there is a golf course not too far away further north. In any event, the golf course in Dyker Heights is rather isolated for most part in terms of tons of traffic, so that's a moot point. The Country Club is also in an isolated area and those folks just want their neighborhood to remain the upscale place that it is and they don't want it ruined with tons of traffic and outsiders and such. That's what I like about Riverdale. You've got Van Cortlandt Park on one side and then the water on the other side, which makes Riverdale somewhat isolated as well. Yeah the supermarkets pretty much suck along with the restaurants, but that's good in a way. Keeps the neighborhood nice and quiet and since it's pricey to live there the neighborhood keeps its charm. Having outsiders come in can just destroy a neighborhood.

[hoodciti]

Does anybody remember when the Bx12 went to the Golf Coarse in Pelham Bay... Split Rock i think is the name of it