official Subway - What If?

[darkstar8983]

6 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Next;

It's a summer weekend in NYC. The following sections are currently closed due to track work related repairs;

53rd St Tunnel (between 5th Av-53rd St and Queens Plaza  )

Lex/63rd St to 57th St-7th Av

Whitehall St Middle Track

trains are running via the in both directions in Manhattan to 2nd Avenue.

trains are running via 6th Avenue.

Suddenly, a signal issue shuts down the entire 8th Avenue line between 59th St & West 4th St, and a work train breaks down on the southbound 6th Avenue tracks of the Manhattan bridge. Reroute the  and .

 

The  would be suspended between 59 St Columbus Circle and Euclid Av

 trains rerouted via 6 Av in both directions between 59 St-Columbus Circle and West 4 St, making local stops on 6 Av, then via the  to Jay St MetroTech. I reroute via the  to Brooklyn because it seems due to the  line work that prevents service to World Trade Center, there must be no access to the track that allows rerouted 8 Av trains to join 8 Av south of West 4 St. otherwise, the  will resume local service from West 4 St to Euclid Av.

 trains would be suspended from 34 St to Atlantic Av-Barclays Center. Maybe the Brooklyn leg of the  could be rerouted to Broadway and run with the  to Times Square or 57 St-7 Av Depending on how much track is available. This way you don’t clog up 4 Av in Brooklyn.

 trains would be rerouted back to Broadway And run only to Times Sq-42 St (assuming 57 St-7 Av cannot be used to turn trains around).

if necessary, reroute some  trains via the  line between Atlantic Av Barclays Center and Canal St

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

15 hours ago, Lawrence St said:

Next;

It's a summer weekend in NYC. The following sections are currently closed due to track work related repairs;

53rd St Tunnel (between 5th Av-53rd St and Queens Plaza  )

Lex/63rd St to 57th St-7th Av

Whitehall St Middle Track

trains are running via the in both directions in Manhattan to 2nd Avenue.

trains are running via 6th Avenue.

Suddenly, a signal issue shuts down the entire 8th Avenue line between 59th St & West 4th St, and a work train breaks down on the southbound 6th Avenue tracks of the Manhattan bridge. Reroute the  and .

 

•  trains will operate via 6th Avenue in both directions, via the  between Columbus Circle and 42nd Street, and via the  between 42nd Street and West 4th Street. 
• There is no  or  service between 34th Street-Herald Square and Atlantic Avenue.
• NB  and  trains in Brooklyn will operate via the  from Atlantic Avenue/DeKalb Avenue to 57th Street where they will terminate and return for SB service.
• SB  and  trains in Manhattan will operate until Herald Square.
• Some  trains will operate from Queens Plaza to the the Court Square platform on the , or via the to/from Bedford-Nostrand Avs , where they will terminate and return for Jamaica-bound service.  
• Some  trains will operate on the  from Queens Plaza to 36th Street (BKLYN), then via the  to/from 9th Avenue. 

TLDR:

•  via 6th Avenue.
• via Crosstown or Broadway 
•  in two sections: 205-34th and 57/7 to Coney Island
•  in two sections: 96th St to 34th St via 6th Ave and 57/7 to Coney Island

Edited May 22, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

•  trains will operate via 6th Avenue in both directions, via the  between Columbus Circle and 42nd Street, and via the  between 42nd Street and West 4th Street. 
• There is no  or  service between 34th Street-Herald Square and Atlantic Avenue.
• NB  and  trains in Brooklyn will operate via the  from Atlantic Avenue/DeKalb Avenue to 57th Street where they will terminate and return for SB service.
• SB  and  trains in Manhattan will operate until Herald Square.
• Some  trains will operate from Queens Plaza to the the Court Square platform on the , or via the to/from Bedford-Nostrand Avs , where they will terminate and return for Jamaica-bound service.  
• Some  trains will operate on the  from Queens Plaza to 36th Street (BKLYN), then via the  to/from 9th Avenue. 

TLDR:

•  via 6th Avenue.
• via Crosstown or Broadway 
•  in two sections: 205-34th and 57/7 to Coney Island
•  in two sections: 96th St to 34th St via 6th Ave and 57/7 to Coney Island

Allowing the  to run with the  thru 6 Av, along with the , terminating trains and rerouted  trains would lead to too much train traffic, even for weekends, especially the switching back and forth between local and express tracks. 

At 42 St-Bryant Park, you have the  on the express track and the  on the local track. then you would need the  to cross over to the local and the to cross over to the express to terminate at 34 St. 

rerouting the to Crosstown will cause inconsistent service along the rest of the line with some trains going to Manhattan and some short-turning in mid-Brooklyn

Sending the  all the way to 36 St-Brooklyn, or the 9 Av  Station would not be necessary (unless the City Hall Layup tracks south of Canal St are occupied with trains stored during the weekend). You could terminate the at Canal St in this case.

The North section of the  you proposed from 96 St-2 Av to 34 St-Herald Sq would be difficult to operate with the  both rerouted to 6 Av (mentioned above), but I see why you run that section to provide Second Avenue Service.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

33 minutes ago, darkstar8983 said:

Allowing the  to run with the  thru 6 Av, along with the , terminating trains and rerouted  trains would lead to too much train traffic, even for weekends, especially the switching back and forth between local and express tracks. 

At 42 St-Bryant Park, you have the  on the express track and the  on the local track. then you would need the  to cross over to the local and the to cross over to the express to terminate at 34 St. 

rerouting the to Crosstown will cause inconsistent service along the rest of the line with some trains going to Manhattan and some short-turning in mid-Brooklyn

Sending the  all the way to 36 St-Brooklyn, or the 9 Av  Station would not be necessary (unless the City Hall Layup tracks south of Canal St are occupied with trains stored during the weekend). You could terminate the at Canal St in this case.

The North section of the  you proposed from 96 St-2 Av to 34 St-Herald Sq would be difficult to operate with the  both rerouted to 6 Av (mentioned above), but I see why you run that section to provide Second Avenue Service.

When stuff like this happens, consistency is already thrown out the window. No matter how hard you try to get trains to keep a even spacing, it's just not possible. You sometimes just have to squeeze trains in wherever possible in order to not delay other trains behind you. Under what I posted, there wouldn't be any  trains on 6th Avenue. You still need trains to run in Queens as well, hence why some are terminating at Court Square and heading back. Also, having all  and  trains terminating at Court Square together can cause congestion issues. If there's a scenario where an  from the north and a  from the south are both a stop away from Court Square (and there's already another train on the other track), it's best to send the  down Crosstown since it'll cause less delays, especially since the  isn't anywhere close to the incident location. This is why some trains are also going down Broadway. 

There are times where trains are laid up at the lower level of Canal on the weekend, and this is assuming that it isn't possible (and the middle track is unusable). 

As for the  vs. scenario, it's more or less damage control. You can't have the  carrying everything and running all local into upper Manhattan and Brooklyn with no  , and you can't just leave 2nd Avenue without anything (and have everyone go to Lexington Ave). You could potentially have trains running approximately every 12 minutes just to reduce the tph in that segment and potential conflicts, but they'll still exist. 

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

Here's a hard one: What if heavy snow makes all aboveground tracks unusuable. Note, the Manhattan Bridge would still be open.

 

[Maxwell179]

5 hours ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

Here's a hard one: What if heavy snow makes all aboveground tracks unusuable. Note, the Manhattan Bridge would still be open.

 

like only elevated structures in the whole system or all tracks not in a tunnel ?

Edited May 29, 2020 by Maxwell179

[Bklyn Bound 2 Local]

1 hour ago, Maxwell179 said:

like only elevated structures in the whole system or all tracks not in a tunnel ?

All tracks not in a tunnel.

[CenSin]

On 4/18/2020 at 8:53 AM, Jova42R said:

On 4/18/2020 at 5:37 AM, Maxwell179 said:

How is a derailment at Jay St affecting the  ?

An  derails just after Hoyt, causing a complete closure of all four lines.  is already on lower level by then.

On 5/14/2020 at 7:45 PM, Maxwell179 said:

Next :

At 2:55 AM , a  southbound  overshoots 53rd St-7th Av and derails horribly causing a severe explosion temporarily knocking out all power in Manhattan from 59th St to 42nd St

At 3:34 AM , a track fire at Brooklyn Bridge-City Hall  causes the FDNY to shut down all power from Canal St to City Hall on the
 

Reroute Away !

I’m unfollowing this thread…

Edited May 30, 2020 by CenSin

[darkstar8983]

1 hour ago, Bklyn Bound 2 Local said:

All tracks not in a tunnel.

For this change:

 

Fully Suspended:  * *   

Normal Service:  

 

Other Lines:

 trains would only run from 96 St to South Ferry

 trains would run only from Flatbush Av to 3 Av-149 St

 trains would run from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Utica Av (if the 149 St relay is outside, then reroute the  to the 3 Av-138 St  Station).

 trains would run from Brooklyn Bridge to Hunts Point Av

 trains would run from Vernon-Jackson Avs (or Grand Central-42 St) to 34 St-Hudson Yards

 trains would run from 207 St to Euclid Av

 trains would run from 205 St to Grand St, then make a local stop at DeKalb Av, then local via the  to Bay Ridge-95 St

 trains would run from Jamaica-179 St to Jay St-MetroTech

 trains would run from Court Sq to Bergen St

 trains would run from Essex St to Broad St (but if the slight openings in the  train tunnel preclude operation between Essex St and Bowery, then the  would be suspended

 trains would run from 8 Av-14 St to Myrtle-Wyckoff Avs

 trains would be suspended (or run from the 2 Av  Station to Broadway-Lafayette St, then regular service to Forest Hills-71 Av)

 trains would run from 96 St-2 Av to Atlantic Av-Barclays Center platform. 

 trains would run normal service from Forest Hills-71 Av to Bay Ridge-95 St

Edited May 30, 2020 by darkstar8983

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

I'm going to try a variant of my previous scenario:

It is a Saturday, 4:15 PM. Assume this takes place after the COVID-19 pandemic (so use regular service levels). 

The 8th Avenue Line is shut down from south of 59th Street to West 4th Street in both directions for necessary track work. In addition, there is signal work being done on the 60th Street tubes, so trains going from Broadway to Queens Boulevard are operating via 63rd Street instead for the weekend. An issue arises where there is a broken rail on the SB local track at West 4th Street. 

Reroute all trains which will be affected by this disruption, using the current weekend service pattern.  Complete suspensions of any line are not acceptable, but partial suspensions if needed can be done. However, if any partial suspensions are done, have a plan for what will happen for affected trains that are currently operating within that suspended section.  

It might help to first make necessary reroutes based on the signal work and track work that I mentioned, and then reroute trains based on incident at 7th Avenue. 

A max constraint of 16 tph is allowed on any individual QBL track and 6th Avenue track, with the exception of the SB express track on the 6th Avenue line south of 34th Street,

For reference:

 - 6 tph 

 - 5 tph

 - 5 tph

 - 5 tph

 - 5 tph

 - 6 tph

 - 6 tph

 - 5 tph

[darkstar8983]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I'm going to try a variant of my previous scenario:

It is a Saturday, 4:15 PM. Assume this takes place after the COVID-19 pandemic (so use regular service levels). 

The 8th Avenue Line is shut down from south of 59th Street to West 4th Street in both directions for necessary track work. In addition, there is signal work being done on the 60th Street tubes, so trains going from Broadway to Queens Boulevard are operating via 63rd Street instead for the weekend. An issue arises where there is a broken rail on the SB local track at West 4th Street. 

Reroute all trains which will be affected by this disruption, using the current weekend service pattern.  Complete suspensions of any line are not acceptable, but partial suspensions if needed can be done. However, if any partial suspensions are done, have a plan for what will happen for affected trains that are currently operating within that suspended section.  

It might help to first make necessary reroutes based on the signal work and track work that I mentioned, and then reroute trains based on incident at 7th Avenue. 

A max constraint of 16 tph is allowed on any individual QBL track and 6th Avenue track, with the exception of the SB express track on the 6th Avenue line south of 34th Street,

For reference:

 - 6 tph 

 - 5 tph

 - 5 tph

 - 5 tph

 - 5 tph

 - 6 tph

 - 6 tph

 - 5 tph

- No trains between Manhattan and Brooklyn

 trains run in 2 sections:

1. 207 St to 59 St-Columbus Circle, then via the  to 34 St-Herald Sq (trains terminate on the express tracks).

2. Jay St-MetroTech to Queens via Local

 

 Trains run between 168 St and 59 St-Columbus Circle (trains terminate on the uptown local track)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 - No trains between Roosevelt Av and 2 Av. Trains run from Jamaica Center to 21 St-Queensbridge (express west of 71 Av), then via the  line to Lexington Av-63 St, rerouted via the  to 57 St-7 Av, then via the  to/from Whitehall St.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 - Trains run local in both directions between 34 St-Herald Sq and West 4 St (The train should be able to cross between the local and express tracks at West 4 St, since the track issue is AT the station, not the switch, I'm assuming)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 - Southbound trains run via the  between Roosevelt Av and Queens Plaza, then via the  to Bergen St.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 - Normal service from Stilwell Av to Astoria-Ditmars Blvd

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 - Normal service from Stillwell Av to 96 St-2 Av

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 - Trains run via the  line from 57 St-7 Av to 36 St, Queens (then local to/from 71 Av)

 

[darkstar8983]

Scenario: Wednesday 3:30AM (Pre-Essential Service): CBTC-related signal malfunction at the 36 St Interlocking disables all tracks in that area: (the D5 tracks IS available to turn trains around). This service issue is expected to last until at least 1PM. Reroute the  however you can such that reasonable track capacity limitations elsewhere in the system are respected, but you keep as much service flowing as possible for the AM Rush. 

[R68OnBroadway]

5 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Scenario: Wednesday 3:30AM (Pre-Essential Service): CBTC-related signal malfunction at the 36 St Interlocking disables all tracks in that area: (the D5 tracks IS available to turn trains around). This service issue is expected to last until at least 1PM. Reroute the  however you can such that reasonable track capacity limitations elsewhere in the system are respected, but you keep as much service flowing as possible for the AM Rush. 

 suspended

 via  to 168 in Manhattan; Roosevelt-JC in Queens

 179-Roosevelt and Queensbridge-CI

 to 96th

 via Astoria 

cross honor tickets with LIRR

 

 

Edited June 2, 2020 by R68OnBroadway

[darkstar8983]

4 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

 suspended

 via  to 168 in Manhattan; Roosevelt-JC in Queens

 179-Roosevelt and Queensbridge-CI

 to 96th

 via Astoria 

cross honor tickets with LIRR

 

 

The  cannot all turn at Ditmars Blvd. It barely turns the  as is

[FamousNYLover]

12 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

Scenario: Wednesday 3:30AM (Pre-Essential Service): CBTC-related signal malfunction at the 36 St Interlocking disables all tracks in that area: (the D5 tracks IS available to turn trains around). This service issue is expected to last until at least 1PM. Reroute the  however you can such that reasonable track capacity limitations elsewhere in the system are respected, but you keep as much service flowing as possible for the AM Rush. 

: Trains run local on 8th Av between 59th and Canal Sts.  

: No trains between Jackson Heights and World Trade Center. Trains run local

: Trains run in 2 sections.

1. Between Jamaica-179th St and Kew Garden.

2. Between 21st St-Queensbridge and Coney Island.

: No trains between Lex Av-53rd St and Forest Hill.

: No trains between 57th St-7th Av and Forest Hill. Service rerouted to 2nd Av  to/from 96th St.

 

 

[R68OnBroadway]

4 hours ago, darkstar8983 said:

The  cannot all turn at Ditmars Blvd. It barely turns the  as is

Then cut the  and have any leftover trains terminate at QBP.

[Lawrence St]

Here's something new;

What if the 63rd St tunnel was never connected to QBL and just ended at 21st St-Queensbridge? How would the current service patterns look today 

[Eric B]

You wouldnt have had the (V), and thus wouldn't have the (M)(V) combo, so the  would be going to Chambers, and an  from 21st to 2nd Av. and the  still via 53rd. (like before 2001)

[B61In2002]

Ok at first I thought this was simple but its not, so I'm gonna go with the 2 ways I see service going. (Please note: you never said 72, 86, 96 were in service.)

Option 1:

service stays the same, 96 - Coney Island.

trains still take over 6 Av Lcl, and run between 21 St - QB and Metropolitan Av.

trains run 179 - Coney Island via 53rd. stays the same, and trains run between Forest Hills and Church Av.

Option 2:

 

Post MannyB repairs and post SAS, service on the letter lines look like this:

207 - Far Rockaway or Lefferts Blvd, CPW Lcl late nights

 Coney Island - 21 St QB via West End & 6th Av Exp, all times.

Brighton Beach - 205 St. CPW Lcl, late nights 2 Av - 205 via CPW Exp.

168 - Euclid. Peak rush hour service to/from 205 St. Weekends 205 - Euclid. No service late nights.

Coney Island - 96 St via Brighton & Broadway.

Coney Island - Dimtars Blvd. Select PM rush hour trains to 21 St - QB or 96 St. Late nights via tunnel.

95 Street - Forest Hills. Late night service Whitehall - 95.

 service between Dimtars - Whitehall. Rush hour service to 86 St or Bay Pkwy . No weekend or late night service.

 

Option 3:

becomes 6 Av Lcl between 21 St - QB and LES - 2 Av. If low ridership, becomes .  runs 71 Av - Church Av full time. 

 

Now, I'm gonna take inspiration from the person with the Q99 profile pic, and create my own monstrosity.

 

: The portal between Grant Av and 80 St collapsed. 

: the switches at Prospect Park and Kings Hwy have jammed, so the local track can only be operated by the .

 

: In The Bronx, a work train ran out of power north of 149 St (upper level) blocking the switches there. South of 149 St, a SB  train has slammed its emergency brakes on, blocking the center and SB tracks. (Track work at 138 St required trains to run on the center track between 149 and 125.  

: a train derailed at City Hall.

: the switch is jammed at Main St. All trains exiting the station from the WB track automatically are switched to the center track. Furthermore, a work train is stuck at 111 St trying to enter the yard, blocking the EB track. 

: a SB has derailed just before the 36 St station, blocking both SB tracks. The relay track is still available.

:There is track work being done on the Williamsburg Bridge, and a truck has rammed into a pillar at Myrtle Av-Broadway.

: a NB train has stalled on the junction outside 36 St trying to go from the express to local track. Track work is being done on the SB side with the Junction that connects the  to West End.

: 2 Church Av bound trains rammed into each other at Classon Av.

The uptown tracks on the 6th Av Line are under repairs between Rockefeller Center and W 4 St. (The junctions are still available.)

The downtown tracks on the Broadway Line south of 57 St and north of Canal St (upper level) are also under repair. 

You can only run so many trains on 8th Av, so improvise! 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[B61In2002]

On 6/18/2012 at 4:23 PM, Gorgor said:

 

...

 

I'll ignore the foaming but respond as to why this would not work:

For this to work, not only would the have to share the tracks with the on Central Park West, but with the between Columbus Circle and 42nd Street, and then with the to Downtown.

 

All of this switching would cause delays on the , plus delays on the due to the being delayed. Terminating it at 57th Street would cause less delays than your ridiculous solution.

 

And I didn't even talk about how illogical and moronic it would be to send the to somewhere where it clearly shouldn't be. Doing so would make its route longer than it currently is when it goes to Queens, which would require you to either add additional trains or increase headways.

Um...so about that 😂 also reading through this chat, why are you all bullying the f**k out of @Wallyhorsefor giving his solutions to scenarios? Personally I think that  to Broadway Junction to go around was a pretty interesting idea. Cut the guy some slack.

[MysteriousBtrain]

3 hours ago, B61In2002 said:

Um...so about that 😂 also reading through this chat, why are you all bullying the f**k out of @Wallyhorsefor giving his solutions to scenarios? Personally I think that  to Broadway Junction to go around was a pretty interesting idea. Cut the guy some slack.

It's a family tradition so it's not bullying.

 

Also that's a post from nearly a decade ago.

Edited June 5, 2020 by MysteriousBtrain

[Lawrence St]

13 hours ago, Eric B said:

You wouldnt have had the (V), and thus wouldn't have the (M)(V) combo, so the  would be going to Chambers, and an  from 21st to 2nd Av. and the  still via 53rd. (like before 2001)

I dont think the would've still ran. Either the continued to run to 21st St or wouldve realized that the wasn't working and instead combine it with the , so it would run to 21st St.

[B61In2002]

16 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

It's a family tradition so it's not bullying.

 

Also that's a post from nearly a decade ago.

Yeah, and your point is?

[Wallyhorse]

On 6/5/2020 at 6:42 AM, B61In2002 said:

Um...so about that 😂 also reading through this chat, why are you all bullying the f**k out of @Wallyhorsefor giving his solutions to scenarios? Personally I think that  to Broadway Junction to go around was a pretty interesting idea. Cut the guy some slack.

People are never going to like my views on a lot of things.  I'm used to it.  

[B61In2002]

place seems dead so im gonna throw one out for you guys, and i wanna make this a little harder than usual, so we're gonna go off this routing from 1967.

A northbound  train has derailed at the Dekalb Interlocking, blocking all northbound tracks (except the Montague St tunnel)

A  got stuck on the switch diverging the southbound track to Borough Hall & the Inner Loop track, and a  train has stalled on the Outer Loop South Ferry station.

The  train derailed at 3 Av - 149 St, blocking both tracks.

A 5 year old decided to play with the emergency breaks, and now the SB  train stalled on the switch between the local and express tracks between Franklin and Nostrand Av.

A randomly rerouted northbound  stalls on the switch outside Columbus Circle.

The  derails at Brodway Junction.

A stalled  blocks the merger between the Canarsie and Jamaica lines.

The  is blocking BOTH northbound local tracks at West 4th St.

 

Reroute away! (I'd LOVE to see your awnsers to these ones. Also, keep in mind the era, this was pre Chyrstie St connection but post Loop Service.