Queens Division Bus Proposals/Ideas

[B35 via Church]

11 hours ago, R68OnBroadway said:

Made some route changes:

Q60: Route is split at Roosevelt Av with overlap between 40th and 52nd. Western part is called Q60, eastern part is called Q61. Should help improve reliability and reduce bunching as the Queensboro is a nightmare.

Q102: This route is rather useless, circulatory, and outdated given Roosevelt Island now has subway access. One thing I thought you could do with this route is have it run to 36th Av  , then right on 31st, then run down to Jackson and onto the Pulaski to end at Greenpoint on the  . Anyone got any ideas about what to do with this route?

- With the Q60, I think they should start running less trips to/from Manhattan throughout the day & have more trips running between [QBP] & [Sutphin/Archer] (the full route would still have buses running b/w S. Jamaica & E. Midtown).... The delays on that route tend to stem from the portions b/w [QBP & E. Midtown] & b/w [S. Jamaica & Jamaica av/QB] (basically, the immediate end spurs of the route)...... What I'm ultimately getting at is, I would leave the continuous service pattern along QB itself alone/intact.....

- With the Q102, something that instantly brought more riders to the route, is the doing-away with having buses running via Newtown av. & via Crescent st. to get to 30th av (and having buses stay on 30th from the Astoria PJ's to the Astoria subway line instead).... As much as I don't personally care for having buses take 31st st, the riders (to their credit) are utilizing it along there at an increased rate from what I've been noticing in recent years....

IDK, something to maybe consider doing with the Q102 for the future is have it "coupled" with the Q103 - That is, to have both routes have the same terminal on both ends, to have the Q102 retain the current route b/w [Astoria - 2nd st] & [Queens Plaza north/21st st], to then have it run along 21st st > Queens Plaza south > Vernon Blvd, to end w/ the Q103..... Service in/out of Roosevelt Island would then be accomplished with a Q104 diversion & extension extension instead (speaking of outdated, it's current western end terminal fits that same bill).....

The whole Western Queens bus network needs to be reorganized anyway..... It's a discombobulated mess.

[Union Tpke]

On 4/6/2012 at 3:39 PM, B35 via Church said:

You aint kiddin with that first sentence.

But yeh, like I pretty much said in the other related thread, the way service is structured now is totally justified....

 

 

- The Q22 should be left alone (meaning, remaining in the rockaways) & not be combined with the Q35, or any other route that would have it coming to brooklyn....

 

- A case could be made for sending the Q35 to arverne, since there are a significant amt. of ppl. (coming from Brooklyn) that get off @ B. 149th, or the dirt passageway that leads to B. 169th for the Q22.... Personally, I think the Q35 should remain terminating @ B. 116th, being the quick link b/w the two boroughs.... The erratic service on the route should be looked into, though....

 

- The Q52/53 tandem (or

I find it funny that we are discussing what could happen with the Q22 and Q35 now when this was the second post in this discussion.

[Orion6025]

17 hours ago, Union Tpke said:

Great idea! Disconnect Roosevelt Island with Astoria and Long Island City!

LIC can be accessed via 21 street queensbridge.

Astoria can be accessed by boarding a Q69, Q66, or Q100 at 21 Street with further transfers to the Q18 and Q104

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Two routes that I would definitely restructure are the QM10 and QM11.  The QM11 should just serve Forest Hills and Forest Hills Gardens and skip LeFrak City.  LeFrak City can have its own express bus.  The issue I foresee is ridership of course, but both buses would need to be restructured accordingly to catch as much ridership as possible.  

I think the Queens express bus configurations will be the most interesting.  

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

52 minutes ago, Via Garibaldi 8 said:

Two routes that I would definitely restructure are the QM10 and QM11.  The QM11 should just serve Forest Hills and Forest Hills Gardens and skip LeFrak City.  LeFrak City can have its own express bus.  The issue I foresee is ridership of course, but both buses would need to be restructured accordingly to catch as much ridership as possible.  

I think the Queens express bus configurations will be the most interesting.  

The QM11 I believe can do well without LeFrak City. Maybe a slight trim in the AM may result, but it can hold on its own. The QM11 can just run on Queens Boulevard. Maybe if people around the Kew Gardens train station are willing to take the bus, you could start the QM11 at 78th Avenue, where the X63/64/68 & QM21 stop (since there's no downtown bus there unless they take the train one stop up).

I don't know if someone mentioned before that some people along the QM18 want a downtown express bus, but if that's the case, the QM11 can start at Metropolitan and Lefferts, in addition to it skipping LeFrak, in order to maintain the same frequencies as before.

For the LeFrak City Express bus to Downtown, the QM10, and the QM40, I would run it via Maspeth, making stops along 57 Avenue and the LIE service road. That area has no express bus service, and people have been asking for one for a while now. It possibly take riders off the Eliot Avenue bus lines. The QM24/QM34 got a service cut in January IIRC when they added service on the QM25 in order to keep everything 'cost neutral'. It was the stupidest thing ever, since buses now are more crowded. I would say the routes need help at certain points in the rush.

Off-peak, I would have the QM4 make stops along Queens Boulevard along QM18 stops, and then stop at Hoffman Drive. I believe theres ridership potential there, and it would help keep off-peak service afloat. Currently, it's only a little better than the BxM4. 

Edited May 30, 2018 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Q43LTD]

I really don't see any purpose in combining the Q30/88. It's similar to combining the Q12/66, Q36/56/110 B54/Q55 and Q83/112

[Future ENY OP]

42 minutes ago, Q43LTD said:

I really don't see any purpose in combining the Q30/88. It's similar to combining the Q12/66, Q36/56/110 B54/Q55 and Q83/112

Don't like the B54, Q55 idea for 2 things..

1) No need for a Downtown Brooklyn to Jamaica route via Myrtle

2) Myrtle traffic is extreme overkill along with Metro Ave

Although there is still talk about a Ridgewood to Downtown Brooklyn SBS. However right now that has quiet down a little.

Q83/Q112 is pretty weird to me only because those 2 lines serve completely different areas of queens. I wouldn't want to travel between Queens Village and Ozone Park via that combo. Although yes, those buses do meet in Jamaica. However, I don't see a real combo for this line.

Q12/66: This I think could really work plus with an possible extension to Great Neck.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

2 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The QM11 I believe can do well without LeFrak City. Maybe a slight trim in the AM may result, but it can hold on its own. The QM11 can just run on Queens Boulevard. Maybe if people around the Kew Gardens train station are willing to take the bus, you could start the QM11 at 78th Avenue, where the X63/64/68 & QM21 stop (since there's no downtown bus there unless they take the train one stop up).

I don't know if someone mentioned before that some people along the QM18 want a downtown express bus, but if that's the case, the QM11 can start at Metropolitan and Lefferts, in addition to it skipping LeFrak, in order to maintain the same frequencies as before.

For the LeFrak City Express bus to Downtown, the QM10, and the QM40, I would run it via Maspeth, making stops along 57 Avenue and the LIE service road. That area has no express bus service, and people have been asking for one for a while now. It possibly take riders off the Eliot Avenue bus lines. The QM24/QM34 got a service cut in January IIRC when they added service on the QM25 in order to keep everything 'cost neutral'. It was the stupidest thing ever, since buses now are more crowded. I would say the routes need help at certain points in the rush.

Off-peak, I would have the QM4 make stops along Queens Boulevard along QM18 stops, and then stop at Hoffman Drive. I believe theres ridership potential there, and it would help keep off-peak service afloat. Currently, it's only a little better than the BxM4. 

I agree with your proposals. I think the QM4 should definitely make more stops long Queens Blvd.

[bobtehpanda]

Q26 extension proposal.

I think this would take some load off the Q27, and at least the stint of Francis Lewis through the parks would be very quick compared to the Q27's QCC loop.

[IAlam]

On 5/30/2018 at 7:05 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The QM11 I believe can do well without LeFrak City. Maybe a slight trim in the AM may result, but it can hold on its own. The QM11 can just run on Queens Boulevard. Maybe if people around the Kew Gardens train station are willing to take the bus, you could start the QM11 at 78th Avenue, where the X63/64/68 & QM21 stop (since there's no downtown bus there unless they take the train one stop up).

I don't know if someone mentioned before that some people along the QM18 want a downtown express bus, but if that's the case, the QM11 can start at Metropolitan and Lefferts, in addition to it skipping LeFrak, in order to maintain the same frequencies as before.

For the LeFrak City Express bus to Downtown, the QM10, and the QM40, I would run it via Maspeth, making stops along 57 Avenue and the LIE service road. That area has no express bus service, and people have been asking for one for a while now. It possibly take riders off the Eliot Avenue bus lines. The QM24/QM34 got a service cut in January IIRC when they added service on the QM25 in order to keep everything 'cost neutral'. It was the stupidest thing ever, since buses now are more crowded. I would say the routes need help at certain points in the rush.

Off-peak, I would have the QM4 make stops along Queens Boulevard along QM18 stops, and then stop at Hoffman Drive. I believe theres ridership potential there, and it would help keep off-peak service afloat. Currently, it's only a little better than the BxM4. 

3

Queens need to have Express bus transfer points like SI does. Places like 78th for X63/X64/X68/QM18/QM21 and Downtown Service (QM11) Woodhaven Blvd & Queens Blvd for any Midtown bus that doesn't have a downtown equivalent. 

As for the QM4 on Queens Blvd I'd be in full support of that. Back when the QM1 had off-peak service I recall suggesting both QM1 and QM4 Serving Queens Blvd up to Woodhaven Blvd. This would probably be useful for anyone who wants to go shopping at Queens Center Mall. Also it would be useful because there are a lot of seniors on the nearby QM12 that could utilize off-peak Queens Blvd Service. 

[Q43LTD]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:59 AM, bobtehpanda said:

Q26 extension proposal.

I think this would take some load off the Q27, and at least the stint of Francis Lewis through the parks would be very quick compared to the Q27's QCC loop.

Wouldn't this be a domino effect? The Q27 is cut back to Queens Village LIRR and the Q83 goes back there full time as well? You might as well send it to 120

[Gotham Bus Co.]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:59 AM, bobtehpanda said:

Q26 extension proposal.

I think this would take some load off the Q27, and at least the stint of Francis Lewis through the parks would be very quick compared to the Q27's QCC loop.

 

Before the Interstate Highway System was a thing, the Q26 stayed on Hollis Court Blvd all the way to Jamaica Avenue and ended at the QV LIRR station. Meanwhile, the Q27 ended at Springfield Blvd & Horace Harding Blvd (yes, it was "Blvd" before the L.I.E. was built).

[bobtehpanda]

21 hours ago, Q43LTD said:

Wouldn't this be a domino effect? The Q27 is cut back to Queens Village LIRR and the Q83 goes back there full time as well? You might as well send it to 120

 

7 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

Before the Interstate Highway System was a thing, the Q26 stayed on Hollis Court Blvd all the way to Jamaica Avenue and ended at the QV LIRR station. Meanwhile, the Q27 ended at Springfield Blvd & Horace Harding Blvd (yes, it was "Blvd" before the L.I.E. was built).

The problem with the Q27 is that it is doing too many things at once.

In addition to this beefing up of the Q26 (which you could send to 120), I would also cut the Q27 back to HHE (service to Hillside during weekdays), make a new overlapping route (Q29?) from Bayside LIRR to 145 Road via QCC and Springfield, and run the Q77 via 120 Av to Green Acres Mall.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

Just now, bobtehpanda said:

The problem with the Q27 is that it is doing too many things at once.

In addition to this beefing up of the Q26 (which you could send to 120), I would also cut the Q27 back to HHE (service to Hillside during weekdays), make a new overlapping route (Q29?) from Bayside LIRR to 145 Road via QCC and Springfield, and run the Q77 via 120 Av to Green Acres Mall.

 

I have long advocated splitting the Q27 into two routes....

 

East-West route (Q27): Main Street Station to QCC. Maybe continue down Springfield, left 69th Av, to 230th St (where the Q75 used to end).

 

"Springfield Crosstown": Bay Terrace to 145th Road via Bell, left Northern, right 233rd St, into Cloverdale, right 56th Av (past QCC), left Springfield. Maybe end at Rochdale Village instead of 145th Road.   

[bobtehpanda]

16 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

I have long advocated splitting the Q27 into two routes....

 

East-West route (Q27): Main Street Station to QCC. Maybe continue down Springfield, left 69th Av, to 230th St (where the Q75 used to end).

 

"Springfield Crosstown": Bay Terrace to 145th Road via Bell, left Northern, right 233rd St, into Cloverdale, right 56th Av (past QCC), left Springfield. Maybe end at Rochdale Village instead of 145th Road.   

I am a little bit iffy about cutting all the way back to QCC, if only because the Q46/Q27 and Q43/Q27 transfers are the two most common transfers in Queens. There are quite a few people who get shafted by HHE terminating buses, and if you're going to Union you might as well go to Hillside. (I don't think Jamaica Av is anywhere near as important for the Q27 to serve.)

I also don't think you need a Springfield Crosstown to go all the way north to Bay Terrace; Bayside LIRR gets you transfers to all the buses that you could reasonably transfer to anyways, maybe to Bayside High, but not all the way to Bay Terrace as long as the Q13 exists.

(In my plan I have no strong opinion either way on which of the Q77/proposed Q29) gets the lower Springfield section, and which one goes to Green Acres via 120 Av. I just think the Q77 should do it because it's more centrally located.)

Edited June 2, 2018 by bobtehpanda

[Gotham Bus Co.]

22 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

I also don't think you need a Springfield Crosstown to go all the way north to Bay Terrace; Bayside LIRR gets you transfers to all the buses that you could reasonably transfer to anyways, maybe to Bayside High, but not all the way to Bay Terrace as long as the Q13 exists.

 

How would you turn the bus around at Bayside LIRR?

[bobtehpanda]

6 minutes ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

 

How would you turn the bus around at Bayside LIRR?

40th Av, 214th Place, 41st Av.

There are other options around: 41st Rd, 42nd Av. And there's a really tight turnaround space in front of the Bayside headhouse on 40th.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

16 hours ago, bobtehpanda said:

I am a little bit iffy about cutting all the way back to QCC, if only because the Q46/Q27 and Q43/Q27 transfers are the two most common transfers in Queens. There are quite a few people who get shafted by HHE terminating buses, and if you're going to Union you might as well go to Hillside. (I don't think Jamaica Av is anywhere near as important for the Q27 to serve.)

Don't focus on transfers between specific routes numbers, because those routes may or may not continue to exist in their present forms or with their current numbers at the end of the process. Instead, look at where people are actually coming from and where they are actually going (i.e. origins and destinations).  If riders from the Hillside Avenue and Union Turnpike corridors are traveling to anywhere along Springfield (including QCC or points south of Union Turnpike), then the Springfield Crosstown would still accommodate them, even though (gasp!) its number might not be Q27.  If they're going to points along 48th/47th/46th Avenues or to Downtown Flushing, then transfers are still available to other north-south routes.

 

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Don't focus on transfers between specific routes numbers, because those routes may or may not continue to exist in their present forms or with their current numbers at the end of the process. Instead, look at where people are actually coming from and where they are actually going (i.e. origins and destinations).  If riders from the Hillside Avenue and Union Turnpike corridors are traveling to anywhere along Springfield (including QCC or points south of Union Turnpike), then the Springfield Crosstown would still accommodate them, even though (gasp!) its number might not be Q27.  If they're going to points along 48th/47th/46th Avenues or to Downtown Flushing, then transfers are still available to other north-south routes.

 

Disclaimer: I was a regular rider of Hillside buses, and I went to Flushing on a regular basis.

The problem is that we don't have destination data, because we don't require exit swipes.

As far as north-south routes towards Flushing goes, the closest available routes would be the Q26 on Francis Lewis, if it was extended like I proposed; barring that, the Q17 on 188th St is the next bus that goes to Flushing. Travel times from Springfield Blvd to 188, or even Francis Lewis, can be very slow and volatile, particularly on Hillside where the Clearview dead-ends and is a frequent source of traffic. Completely abolishing any north-south service to Flushing from Springfield is not very attractive, which is why I would not.

Edited June 3, 2018 by bobtehpanda

[Gotham Bus Co.]

12 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

Disclaimer: I was a regular rider of Hillside buses, and I went to Flushing on a regular basis.

The problem is that we don't have destination data, because we don't require exit swipes.

As far as north-south routes towards Flushing goes, the closest available routes would be the Q26 on Francis Lewis, if it was extended like I proposed; barring that, the Q17 on 188th St is the next bus that goes to Flushing. Travel times from Springfield Blvd to 188, or even Francis Lewis, can be very slow and volatile, particularly on Hillside where the Clearview dead-ends and is a frequent source of traffic. Completely abolishing any north-south service to Flushing from Springfield is not very attractive, which is why I would not.

 

Actually, there IS a crude form of destination data, in the sense that the origin of a given MetroCard trip is most likely (not always, but usually) the destination of the previous trip with the same card.

 

In any event, the best approach would be to wait until the process reaches Queens, go to the workshops and meetings, and speak up about where a Springfield route should go at each end.

Edited June 3, 2018 by Gotham Bus Co.
clarity

[bobtehpanda]

4 hours ago, Gotham Bus Co. said:

Don't focus on transfers between specific routes numbers, because those routes may or may not continue to exist in their present forms or with their current numbers at the end of the process. Instead, look at where people are actually coming from and where they are actually going (i.e. origins and destinations).  If riders from the Hillside Avenue and Union Turnpike corridors are traveling to anywhere along Springfield (including QCC or points south of Union Turnpike), then the Springfield Crosstown would still accommodate them, even though (gasp!) its number might not be Q27.  If they're going to points along 48th/47th/46th Avenues or to Downtown Flushing, then transfers are still available to other north-south routes.

 

It actually turns out that the last pages of the NE Queens bus study have O/D data for the Q27.

Based on the table, Oakland Gardens and Queens Village make up about 30% of trips starting or ending in Flushing. So it's probably not a great idea to tank all that ridership.

[IAlam]

1 minute ago, bobtehpanda said:

It actually turns out that the last pages of the NE Queens bus study have O/D data for the Q27.

Based on the table, Oakland Gardens and Queens Village make up about 30% of trips starting or ending in Flushing. So it's probably not a great idea to tank all that ridership.

From my experience on Queens Buses lines, there are always passengers that tend to travel long distances on bus routes.

[Gotham Bus Co.]

2 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It actually turns out that the last pages of the NE Queens bus study have O/D data for the Q27.

Based on the table, Oakland Gardens and Queens Village make up about 30% of trips starting or ending in Flushing. So it's probably not a great idea to tank all that ridership.

Oakland Gardens would be covered by my idea to end the Q27 where the old Q75 ended.  Queens Village would be covered by my idea for the Q26: Extend via Hollis Court, right 58th Av, left 188th St, then follow current Q88 path to Queens Village LIRR. 

[B35 via Church]

On 5/31/2018 at 12:59 AM, bobtehpanda said:

Q26 extension proposal.

I think this would take some load off the Q27, and at least the stint of Francis Lewis through the parks would be very quick compared to the Q27's QCC loop.

4 minutes ago, bobtehpanda said:

It actually turns out that the last pages of the NE Queens bus study have O/D data for the Q27.

Based on the table, Oakland Gardens and Queens Village make up about 30% of trips starting or ending in Flushing. So it's probably not a great idea to tank all that ridership.

...which leads me to the problem I have with your route here.

I like what you're trying to accomplish w/ this, but this still has to be pointed out.... You have it running on the outskirts of QV, while the Q27 runs right through the heart of the neighborhood.... Your route completely avoids Oakland Gardens....

While your route would be faster than the Q27, I don't see it remotely benefitting much of any of those 30% you cite.....

On 6/1/2018 at 7:13 PM, Q43LTD said:

Wouldn't this be a domino effect? The Q27 is cut back to Queens Village LIRR and the Q83 goes back there full time as well? You might as well send it to 120

No, because his route & the Q27 would end up serving two different riderbases.....

[bobtehpanda]

31 minutes ago, B35 via Church said:

...which leads me to the problem I have with your route here.

I like what you're trying to accomplish w/ this, but this still has to be pointed out.... You have it running on the outskirts of QV, while the Q27 runs right through the heart of the neighborhood.... Your route completely avoids Oakland Gardens....

While your route would be faster than the Q27, I don't see it remotely benefitting much of any of those 30% you cite.....

No, because his route & the Q27 would end up serving two different riderbases.....

It's why I would only cut back the Q27 to Hillside or Jamaica under this scenario. The Q27 just has no business running south of that area.