Lhota: Let’s send the 7 to Chelsea.

[KeystoneRegional]

SecondAveSagas [New York, NY] - "As the MTA nears the 20 (or perhaps 24-month) countdown to mark the days until the 7 line extension is put into revenue service, the future of the agency’s megaprojects continues to make headlines. Once the extension to the Hudson Yards area wraps, the Second Ave. Subway will surve as the MTA’s only subway expansion project, and many in New York are eying ways to keep the ball rolling. We heard one dreamer’s plan in January to send the L to the United States, but what of the current MTA head?

 

During Friday’s Regional Assembly hosted the Regional Plan Associate, MTA Chairman and CEO Joe Lhota, the person whose voice may count the most over the next few years, spoke about his dreams for the 7 train. Specifically, he wants to send it south to Chelsea. “As far as big projects are concerned, I can actually see the extension of the No. 7 train to other parts of New York City’s west side,” he said. The 7 could “go all the way down to 23rd Street, and the West Side Highway, so we can incorporate that portion of the west side that’s not receiving a whole lot of coverage.”

 

Transportation Nation’s Jim O’Grady was on hand at the Regional Assembly, and he had more on Lhota:

 

Lhota told planners…that the first project on his “wish list” is extending the Number 7 subway train down 11th Avenue to 23rd Street. “It’s something that I think would make sense because if you look at the demographics of the West Side, we shouldn’t just make one stop,” he told reporters after taking part in a workshop at the Regional Plan Association’s annual assembly, which was held at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.

Lhota said, “It’s important to have plans, to have a wish list.” But he cautioned there was no active push to send the 7 train from Times Square past its planned terminus at W 34th Street. “I’m not sure it can be done,” he said. “I’m not sure about how close you can get to the Hudson River.”

 

Lhota’s reference to the Hudson River concerns the technical side of any southern expansion. Because the new terminal with the tail tracks extending south to the low 20s is so close to the West Side, future tunneling would have to cut east. It’s not technically impossible to envision a connection to 14th Street, and furthermore, with the way the tail tracks are built out now, the MTA could add a stop without much more tunneling. A stop in the 20s underneath 11th Ave., however, would destroy the capacity and storage needs the trail tracks address.

 

 

Source Link: http://secondavenues...ontent=FaceBook

[Wallyhorse]

The 41st/10th Avenue station is what I would build first for the before any expansion down to Chelsea and even perhaps in the future, a connection to the 7th Avenue line at 14th Street..

 

If there is any further expansion to Chelsea, however, as stated before I would be looking to do it with the train as a 10th-Amsterdam Avenue line like this (all are 10th or Amsterdam Avenue unless otherwise noted):

 

23rd Street (three-track/two-island platform station that can serve as a short-turn terminal in either direction for the , exits at 21st and 23rd Streets)

31st-33rd Streets (exits at 31st and 33rd Streets)

41st Street (transfer to , exits at 41st, 42nd and 43rd Streets)

50th Streets (exits at 49th and 50th)

58th Street-Roosevelt Hospital (exits at 57th and 58th)

65th Street-Lincoln Center (exits at 65th and 66th)

72nd Street-Broadway (transfer to (1)/(2)/(3), exit through the 7th Avenue line platform at 72nd-73rd/Broadway and separate exit at 75th and Amsterdam Avenue, which would be the terminal for this line)

[mark1447]

Good! Now push the down to 14th Street Piers, and the as well, and that would be a NICE connection.

 

But I like how the Chairman thinks. Seems like hes getting the hang of experiences with our system!

 

 

The 41st/10th Avenue station is what I would build first for the before any expansion down to Chelsea and even perhaps in the future, a connection to the 7th Avenue line at 14th Street..

 

If there is any further expansion to Chelsea, however, as stated before I would be looking to do it with the train as a 10th-Amsterdam Avenue line like this (all are 10th or Amsterdam Avenue unless otherwise noted):

 

23rd Street (three-track/two-island platform station that can serve as a short-turn terminal in either direction for the , exits at 21st and 23rd Streets)

31st-33rd Streets (exits at 31st and 33rd Streets)

41st Street (transfer to , exits at 41st, 42nd and 43rd Streets)

50th Streets (exits at 49th and 50th)

58th Street-Roosevelt Hospital (exits at 57th and 58th)

65th Street-Lincoln Center (exits at 65th and 66th)

72nd Street-Broadway (transfer to (1)/(2)/(3), exit through the 7th Avenue line platform at 72nd-73rd/Broadway and separate exit at 75th and Amsterdam Avenue, which would be the terminal for this line)

 

 

 

Yeah... Not happening. You got the IRT Broadway for that and MABSTOA M5, M7, M10, M20, M57, M72, M104 for that too.

[KeystoneRegional]

Good! Now push the down to 14th Street Piers, and the as well, and that would be a NICE connection.

 

But I like how the Chairman thinks. Seems like hes getting the hang of experiences with our system!

 

 

Well, perhaps, however it's an awesome connection, not a NICE connection since we're talking about Manhattan and 's system. And Joe Lhota is kinda into transit, not transitfan status but he knows what to do and I trust him.

[mark1447]

 

 

Well, perhaps, however it's an awesome connection, not a NICE connection since we're talking about Manhattan and 's system. And Joe Lhota is kinda into transit, not transitfan status but he knows what to do and I trust him.

 

 

I know. He's learning the system, which is good. He started so soon, and his mind is already on the line.

 

This idea with the is better then sending it to Jersey. However, I read around that Amtrak does want to fund an extenstion of the to NYP. I don't know if this would even happen.

[Roadcruiser1]

It's better in the long run that the line would run to 14th Street since it would help bridge that narrow gap, and no Wallyhorse the is not going uptown.

[Threxx]

It's better in the long run that the line would run to 14th Street since it would help bridge that narrow gap, and no Wallyhorse the is not going uptown.

 

 

He meant the , not the , but that's not happening anyway.

 

I'd build the 9th Avenue station first, and if the money is there, I'd consider an extension to 14th Street.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Lhota ordinary guy.... At least he's thinking about the future... The West Side is the next area that'll see residential and business growth, so the extension would be a good idea in the near future. Seems like an ordinary guy... Saw him the other night as I was waiting for the BxM18 in front of 347 Madison...

[Grand Concourse]

He meant the , not the , but that's not happening anyway.

 

I'd build the 9th Avenue station first, and if the money is there, I'd consider an extension to 14th Street.

 

You mean 10th.

[ACEVE14]

SecondAveSagas [New York, NY] - "As the MTA nears the 20 (or perhaps 24-month) countdown to mark the days until the 7 line extension is put into revenue service, the future of the agency’s megaprojects continues to make headlines. Once the extension to the Hudson Yards area wraps, the Second Ave. Subway will surve as the MTA’s only subway expansion project, and many in New York are eying ways to keep the ball rolling. We heard one dreamer’s plan in January to send the L to the United States, but what of the current MTA head?

 

During Friday’s Regional Assembly hosted the Regional Plan Associate, MTA Chairman and CEO Joe Lhota, the person whose voice may count the most over the next few years, spoke about his dreams for the 7 train. Specifically, he wants to send it south to Chelsea. “As far as big projects are concerned, I can actually see the extension of the No. 7 train to other parts of New York City’s west side,” he said. The 7 could “go all the way down to 23rd Street, and the West Side Highway, so we can incorporate that portion of the west side that’s not receiving a whole lot of coverage.”

 

Transportation Nation’s Jim O’Grady was on hand at the Regional Assembly, and he had more on Lhota:

 

 

Lhota told planners…that the first project on his “wish list” is extending the Number 7 subway train down 11th Avenue to 23rd Street. “It’s something that I think would make sense because if you look at the demographics of the West Side, we shouldn’t just make one stop,” he told reporters after taking part in a workshop at the Regional Plan Association’s annual assembly, which was held at the Waldorf-Astoria Hotel.

 

Lhota said, “It’s important to have plans, to have a wish list.” But he cautioned there was no active push to send the 7 train from Times Square past its planned terminus at W 34th Street. “I’m not sure it can be done,” he said. “I’m not sure about how close you can get to the Hudson River.”

 

Lhota’s reference to the Hudson River concerns the technical side of any southern expansion. Because the new terminal with the tail tracks extending south to the low 20s is so close to the West Side, future tunneling would have to cut east. It’s not technically impossible to envision a connection to 14th Street, and furthermore, with the way the tail tracks are built out now, the MTA could add a stop without much more tunneling. A stop in the 20s underneath 11th Ave., however, would destroy the capacity and storage needs the trail tracks address.

 

 

Source Link: http://secondavenues...ontent=FaceBook

 

 

That reminds me, if the MTA has been planning on extending the Line past Times Square-42nd St for years, how come they never planned a subway extension along the elevated High Line to Tribeca? If you ask me why the didn't think this through, I'll explain. I've studied maps of the High Line and the Train by Google Maps for quite a while and basically if that were to happen instead, well, it'll give a lot of subway riders in Tribeca a one-seat ride up to Midtown with a view inside of the apartments and the Hudson River. The Train would have been the only subway line in history to have all 12 stops in Manhattan with island platforms, the 9 stops after Times Square-42nd St might have went a little something like this: 10th Av, 34th St-Javitz Center, 30th St-11th Av, Chelsea Piers-23rd St, Chelsea Market-14th St, either Christopher St or 10th St, Houston St, Spring-Canal Sts, and Tribeca-Hubert St. At least that's what I'm thinking of, wonder if the have any thoughts about this?

[R10 2952]

In all honesty, the best course of action would have been to use the High Line to extend the southward. But instead, they decide to turn it into a park (facepalm) ... And then millions have to be spent to dig new tunnels when you could have used an already-existing viaduct. SMH

[KeystoneRegional]

I know. He's learning the system, which is good. He started so soon, and his mind is already on the line.

 

This idea with the is better then sending it to Jersey. However, I read around that Amtrak does want to fund an extenstion of the to NYP. I don't know if this would even happen.

 

 

Okay, well he perhaps already studied the system plenty, but his plan is just a alternative and more supportive towards the and General Purpose. In my opinion, the to Penn is just an idea to comfort politicians by Amtrak, I don't see that a viable option considering Select Bus Service already in place on 34th Street.

 

I actually perfer Lhota's proposal over all the other 3 and no build options.

 

Lhota ordinary guy.... At least he's thinking about the future... The West Side is the next area that'll see residential and business growth, so the extension would be a good idea in the near future. Seems like an ordinary guy... Saw him the other night as I was waiting for the BxM18 in front of 347 Madison...

 

 

Yep, an ordinary New Yorker indeed. It's always good to look into future, plan out new reasonable routes and focus on making New York the best city in the world again which it failed to become over the last several years.

 

In all honesty, the best course of action would have been to use the High Line to extend the southward. But instead, they decide to turn it into a park (facepalm) ... And then millions have to be spent to dig new tunnels when you could have used an already-existing viaduct. SMH

 

 

No, I would be against that, the High Line is perfect the way it is now, a park and recreational facility for New York's youth and provide a Day & Night Life spot. I would rather see the underground, no matter if it is scenic or not. The tunnels again would also be easier to maintain in certain perspectives.

[LTA1992]

Exactly. Personally, I think that the High Line Parks creation was the best thing possible for that viaduct.

[GojiMet86]

Maybe in 20 or 30 years, when hopefully the MTA isn't in a tight fix, could they build this extension and other plans, like the continuation of the 2nd Avenue subway and the Triboro RX.

[Novabus 5000]

A friend of mine actually predicted this...

[Wallyhorse]

You mean 10th.

 

He meant 10th, but I would make the station between 9th and 10th so it connects to the PABT. That should be done before any further extension of the to 14th Street or further downtown.

 

That said, I still think if you're thinking of any extension like that, I would rather send the uptown from 14th/8th-72nd/Broadway for that purpose since it also would give those west of 8th Avenue before 72nd a new subway line (you don't need to really go above 72nd with such).

 

In all honesty, the best course of action would have been to use the High Line to extend the southward. But instead, they decide to turn it into a park (facepalm) ... And then millions have to be spent to dig new tunnels when you could have used an already-existing viaduct. SMH

 

The use of the high line as it is was probably the best use for it. I have seen pictures of the High Line walk and I'm not sure it would have been wide enough for two tracks of IRT-sized subway cars at some points of it anyway, much less being able to build any stations between 34th and 14th Streets.

[Grand Concourse]

Since the turns on 11th av, it would make sense to have the station closer towards 11th av than 9th av, as there is no direct access from the western most side.

 

No, the only extension needed is to be no further than the Chelsea 11th av (so hopefully it meets with the )*. If people need to get to 72nd they can back track to the 7th av lines by using the or . Other boroughs needs subway service over Manhattan where it would be duplicating existing services. Manhattan with exception of 2nd av is well served.

[TwoTimer]

He only said one stop, which was progressing near the water, when he said Chelsea, he meant that one stop which was only another footfall field or two of digging beyond the trail tracks. You can't equate Chelsea with Chelsea Piers, which while an area attraction, is no Yankee Stadium/Empire State/1 WTC/Citi Field. Some of you people really have to stop addressing direct transport to small local attractions by sending a subway there. The buses that serve the area are already sufficient.

[VWM]

just focus on SAS first...

[Vistausss]

Since the turns on 11th av, it would make sense to have the station closer towards 11th av than 9th av, as there is no direct access from the western most side.

 

 

Or 2 stops.

-8th Ave-PABT (leaning towards 8th Ave, but at walking distance to PABT)

-11th Ave

[Grand Concourse]

If they had to scrap 10th av for 'costs', I doubt they will build 2 stops there on 41st.

[N-Trizzy2609]

My 2 Cents:

 

Okay, the tail tracks already end at the foot of 25th Street so banging out a 23rd Street station will be easy, getting it to 14th will be challengeing considering the line has to paraelle the river and I don't think they can bore that close to the river unless diping the line down more. So I say, bring it to Chelsea Piers and leave it alone. No 41st Street station because we all know that a boondogal right there. Afterwords, extend the SAS into the Bronx even if it's just to the Hub. It will benefit the Lexington alot.

[Roadcruiser1]

My 2 Cents:

 

Okay, the tail tracks already end at the foot of 25th Street so banging out a 23rd Street station will be easy, getting it to 14th will be challenging considering the line has to parallel the river and I don't think they can bore that close to the river unless dipping the line down more. So I say, bring it to Chelsea Piers and leave it alone. No 41st Street station because we all know that a boondoggle right there. Afterwords, extend the SAS into the Bronx even if it's just to the Hub. It will benefit the Lexington a lot.

 

They can. Off topic but the original World Trade Center was built next to the Hudson River (World Financial Center was built later with dirt from the World Trade Center which was thrown into the Hudson River). To keep out the water they built a bathtub. The same technique at a smaller scale would work at the 14th Street Station.

 

And the SAS will not be extended to Bronx in our lifetime. The challenge to build the tunnel and the ROW will make it far more impossible.

[KeystoneRegional]

No, the only extension needed is to be no further than the Chelsea 11th av (so hopefully it meets with the )*. If people need to get to 72nd they can back track to the 7th av lines by using the or . Other boroughs needs subway service over Manhattan where it would be duplicating existing services. Manhattan with exception of 2nd av is well served.

 

 

How about the end at 14th and 9th or 10th since the Apple Store, many nightlife spots and Chelsea Market is nearby, and introduce an out-of-system transfer to the at 8th Ave., it would work, a more detailed explanation is below on the 3rd Response.

 

Or 2 stops.

-8th Ave-PABT (leaning towards 8th Ave, but at walking distance to PABT)

-11th Ave

 

 

No, 8th and 11th are not feasible, 8th is too close to the existing Times Square station, 11th Ave. is where the turns, the 10th Ave. Station didn't come into fruition because of lack of funds, but I am disappointed that they haven't at least built a station shell.

 

 

My 2 Cents:

 

Okay, the tail tracks already end at the foot of 25th Street so banging out a 23rd Street station will be easy, getting it to 14th will be challengeing considering the line has to paraelle the river and I don't think they can bore that close to the river unless diping the line down more. So I say, bring it to Chelsea Piers and leave it alone. No 41st Street station because we all know that a boondogal right there. Afterwords, extend the SAS into the Bronx even if it's just to the Hub. It will benefit the Lexington alot.

 

 

Well, what I would say is turn the Tunnel eastward under 23rd St. and make a station at 10th Ave. @ 23rd St. then at 9th Ave. turn it down southward to a last stop at 14th St. @ 9th Ave. this will make it run near the and an out-of-system Transfer using a Metro-card be created between the and .

[Wallyhorse]

Well, what I would say is turn the Tunnel eastward under 23rd St. and make a station at 10th Ave. @ 23rd St. then at 9th Ave. turn it down southward to a last stop at 14th St. @ 9th Ave. this will make it run near the and an out-of-system Transfer using a Metro-card be created between the and .

 

That might work, since it also would allow for an OOS to the (A)/©/(E) at 14th/8th. If you can get the close enough to the at 14th, even perhaps it could be done as an in-system transfer if that can also be done from the 8th Avenue line.