Planned Subway Service Changes

[Lawrence St]

Does anyone know why the and are running every 20 minutes right now?

Edited July 11, 2020 by Lawrence St

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

PLANNED WORK  Posted: 07/13/2020  6:28PM

SWITCH & TRACK REPLACEMENT
Monday to Friday through Aug 28
Rush hour service temporarily reduced to accommodate switch and track replacement near 14 St-Union Sq and Canal St 

In Manhattan  trains combined run every 2½ to 3 minutes instead of every 2 to 2½ minutes during rush hours. 

From Jul 13 to 24, downtown  trains run at a slower speed near Canal St. 

From Jul 27 to Aug 28, downtown trains run at a slower speed nearing 14 St-Union Sq. 

You may experience additional crowding and delays during this time.
 

Edited July 13, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[RestrictOnTheHanger]

This is a good time to do the work with lower ridership

[Calvin]

Rutgers Tube work will start in August during weekends: 

  trains will be traveling over the 8 Av local line between 36 St and Jay St-Metrotech. 

trains over the , 6 Av line between 36 St in Queens and a temporary terminal, Delancey-Essex St in Manhattan.  East Broadway and York St will be closed at that time. 

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/infrastructure/press-release/21147017/mta-new-york-city-transit-new-york-mta-begins-rehabilitation-work-on-f-lines-rutgers-tube-between-brooklyn-and-manhattan

Edited July 22, 2020 by Calvin

[Lawrence St]

29 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Rutgers Tube work will start in August during weekends: 

  trains will be traveling over the 8 Av local line between 36 St and Jay St-Metrotech. 

trains over the line between 36 St in Queens and a temporary terminal at Delancey-Essex St in Manhattan.  East Broadway and York St will be closed at that time. 

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/infrastructure/press-release/21147017/mta-new-york-city-transit-new-york-mta-begins-rehabilitation-work-on-f-lines-rutgers-tube-between-brooklyn-and-manhattan

Uh, why Essex St? Just have it end at 2nd Av.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

30 minutes ago, Calvin said:

Rutgers Tube work will start in August during weekends: 

  trains will be traveling over the 8 Av local line between 36 St and Jay St-Metrotech. 

trains over the line between 36 St in Queens and a temporary terminal at Delancey-Essex St in Manhattan.  East Broadway and York St will be closed at that time. 

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/infrastructure/press-release/21147017/mta-new-york-city-transit-new-york-mta-begins-rehabilitation-work-on-f-lines-rutgers-tube-between-brooklyn-and-manhattan

I'm guessing that's an easier setup in terms of having the proper signage and easing confusion, since the  to 2nd Ave program exists, and having an  on the Culver Line would probably confuse a whole lot of people. All they would have to do in a situation like this is to add on Delancey-Essex, although if this ends up happening, I wouldn't hold my breath on them having such a program ready. 

1 minute ago, Lawrence St said:

Uh, why Essex St? Just have it end at 2nd Av.

That way, Jamaica Line riders still have access to Midtown. Without it, they'll have to take the  to Canal Street and then take an uptown train, which is a backtrack.

Edited July 22, 2020 by BM5 via Woodhaven

[Calvin]

37 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

Uh, why Essex St? Just have it end at 2nd Av.

The doesn't run to 96 St-2 Av during weekends anymore. So, the can make the extra stop picking up riders going up. Crew changes may happen at 2nd Av as the c/r and t/o switch directions at Deleancey St. 

Edited July 22, 2020 by Calvin

[Daniel The Cool]

1 hour ago, Calvin said:

Rutgers Tube work will start in August during weekends: 

  trains will be traveling over the 8 Av local line between 36 St and Jay St-Metrotech. 

trains over the , 6 Av line between 36 St in Queens and a temporary terminal, Delancey-Essex St in Manhattan.  East Broadway and York St will be closed at that time. 

https://www.masstransitmag.com/rail/infrastructure/press-release/21147017/mta-new-york-city-transit-new-york-mta-begins-rehabilitation-work-on-f-lines-rutgers-tube-between-brooklyn-and-manhattan

Actually the  being rerouted via 6th Avenue is only on select weekends/nights of the closure. Other weekends/nights during the closures the  is staying on normal route

[Lawrence St]

57 minutes ago, Daniel The Cool said:

Actually the  being rerouted via 6th Avenue is only on select weekends/nights of the closure. Other weekends/nights during the closures the  is staying on normal route

So the , and will all be on the same track? Has not learned their lesson from the via Broadway mess?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

1 hour ago, Daniel The Cool said:

Actually the  being rerouted via 6th Avenue is only on select weekends/nights of the closure. Other weekends/nights during the closures the  is staying on normal route

 

7 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

So the , and will all be on the same track? Has not learned their lesson from the via Broadway mess?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I got from the article was the the  was going to be rerouted during the weeknights/weekends that work is done. I know they say select for both, but I took the  reroutes as falling on the same days as the tunnel work. It just doesn't make sense to be inconsistent like that with the service pattern when the tunnel is out for repairs. But then again, anything flies with this agency. 

Even if the  and  end up sharing the same tracks, they're all running about every 12 minutes on weekends, and 10-12 in the evenings(so roughly a train every 3-4 minutes). It's not like the Broadway Express tracks south of Prince Street where service is more frequent.

[Daniel The Cool]

48 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I got from the article was the the  was going to be rerouted during the weeknights/weekends that work is done. I know they say select for both, but I took the  reroutes as falling on the same days as the tunnel work. It just doesn't make sense to be inconsistent like that with the service pattern when the tunnel is out for repairs. But then again, anything flies with this agency. 

Even if the  and  end up sharing the same tracks, they're all running about every 12 minutes on weekends, and 10-12 in the evenings(so roughly a train every 3-4 minutes). It's not like the Broadway Express tracks south of Prince Street where service is more frequent.

Work being done along 6th Avenue on select weekends during the closures is why.

[Lawrence St]

11 hours ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I got from the article was the the  was going to be rerouted during the weeknights/weekends that work is done. I know they say select for both, but I took the  reroutes as falling on the same days as the tunnel work. It just doesn't make sense to be inconsistent like that with the service pattern when the tunnel is out for repairs. But then again, anything flies with this agency. 

Even if the  and  end up sharing the same tracks, they're all running about every 12 minutes on weekends, and 10-12 in the evenings(so roughly a train every 3-4 minutes). It's not like the Broadway Express tracks south of Prince Street where service is more frequent.

Yeah but add in switching delays and track work and everything will go out of order. I've seen it happen the last time the ran via 8th Av. 

[Calvin]

I wonder if the  will continue to end at Church Av or resume service to Coney Island during weekends

Edited July 22, 2020 by Calvin

[mrsman]

On 7/21/2020 at 9:46 PM, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

I'm guessing that's an easier setup in terms of having the proper signage and easing confusion, since the  to 2nd Ave program exists, and having an  on the Culver Line would probably confuse a whole lot of people. All they would have to do in a situation like this is to add on Delancey-Essex, although if this ends up happening, I wouldn't hold my breath on them having such a program ready. 

 

I would think the opposite.  If  ran to Culver, the only changes to routing will be in the southern parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn.  Riders from Queens to Manhattan won't have to rethink their routes.  Why would somoene who travels from Queens to Manhattan worry about the Rutgers tunnel (and keep track of which weekends the Rutgers tunnel are closed) to determine whether they should take the  or the  that day?

For those on the Culver line, even if they are confused, as there is normally only one Manhattan bound train that runs on the line, they will simply take the train that comes and make a transfer at W4th for 6th Ave service, if needed.  For people traveling from Manhattan to Brooklyn, it's true that people have to remember to board on the 8th Ave platforms to head to Culver, but they would have to do that regardless of what we named the trains.

So if ran to Culver:  would run normally except for no service south of Essex,  would run to all of its stops (except WTC) and then be extended along the  to Jay and then down the Culver.  Culver bound riders in Manhattan (and Queens) would need to take the  , but if they forget, they can be reminded to transfer at W4th.  Inbound riders in Brooklyn will take whatever train comes without worry and transfer in Manhattan if needed.

[Calvin]

Aug 7 - 9 • Aug 14 - 16: Coney Island bound  trains run on the  line again from Canal St to Stillwell Av making stops at 36 St, 9 Av and Bay Parkway. 

[Lance]

On 7/23/2020 at 7:25 AM, mrsman said:

I would think the opposite.  If  ran to Culver, the only changes to routing will be in the southern parts of Manhattan and Brooklyn.  Riders from Queens to Manhattan won't have to rethink their routes.  Why would somoene who travels from Queens to Manhattan worry about the Rutgers tunnel (and keep track of which weekends the Rutgers tunnel are closed) to determine whether they should take the  or the  that day?

For those on the Culver line, even if they are confused, as there is normally only one Manhattan bound train that runs on the line, they will simply take the train that comes and make a transfer at W4th for 6th Ave service, if needed.  For people traveling from Manhattan to Brooklyn, it's true that people have to remember to board on the 8th Ave platforms to head to Culver, but they would have to do that regardless of what we named the trains.

So if ran to Culver:  would run normally except for no service south of Essex,  would run to all of its stops (except WTC) and then be extended along the  to Jay and then down the Culver.  Culver bound riders in Manhattan (and Queens) would need to take the  , but if they forget, they can be reminded to transfer at W4th.  Inbound riders in Brooklyn will take whatever train comes without worry and transfer in Manhattan if needed.

Two things are likely playing a part in why this isn't being considered as an option: 1) The E and F swap between 53rd St/8th Ave and 63rd St/6th Ave all the time. So much so that riders are relatively familiar with this service change. When's the last time you've seen an E train on the Culver line? 2) During the overnight Rutgers closures, if the E was extended down to Coney Island in lieu of the F, that would be a long, slow local line from Jamaica-Parsons. The F currently has 45 stops between 179 Street and Coney Island, but it has that express portion on Queens Blvd to speed it up. The E as a full local at night doesn't have that option and would increase from 32 stops to over 50 crawling the whole way there.

[Lawrence St]

1 hour ago, Lance said:

Two things are likely playing a part in why this isn't being considered as an option: 1) The E and F swap between 53rd St/8th Ave and 63rd St/6th Ave all the time. So much so that riders are relatively familiar with this service change. When's the last time you've seen an E train on the Culver line? 2) During the overnight Rutgers closures, if the E was extended down to Coney Island in lieu of the F, that would be a long, slow local line from Jamaica-Parsons. The F currently has 45 stops between 179 Street and Coney Island, but it has that express portion on Queens Blvd to speed it up. The E as a full local at night doesn't have that option and would increase from 32 stops to over 50 crawling the whole way there.

That can easily be fixed by swapping the overnight portions of the and . IIRC, the connects directly to the express tracks of QBL once it reaches Briarwood. 

And at least, in my opinion, I prefer having the on Culver because then riders will ask "Hey, whats the doing here? Let me check the planned service changes on the website." 

[Lex]

6 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

That can easily be fixed by swapping the overnight portions of the and . IIRC, the connects directly to the express tracks of QBL once it reaches Briarwood. 

That just puts us back where we were, only with a slight -- and pointless -- flip in Jamaica and considerably worse commutes for those using the Briarwood and 75th Avenue stations.

And no, that won't lead to many checking the site (if any even bother, which they likely won't if they see a train other than what they'd normally use and care more about getting out of the station than waiting 12+ minutes for another).

[Lawrence St]

2 minutes ago, Lex said:

That just puts us back where we were, only with a slight -- and pointless -- flip in Jamaica and considerably worse commutes for those using the Briarwood and 75th Avenue stations.

And no, that won't lead to many checking the site (if any even bother, which they likely won't if they see a train other than what they'd normally use and care more about getting out of the station than waiting 12+ minutes for another).

If it was pointless, why did they do the swap the same way with the and when the Clark St tunnels were out of service?

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

51 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

That can easily be fixed by swapping the overnight portions of the and . IIRC, the connects directly to the express tracks of QBL once it reaches Briarwood. 

And at least, in my opinion, I prefer having the on Culver because then riders will ask "Hey, whats the doing here? Let me check the planned service changes on the website." 

That's not how it works. You should know this by now.

30 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

If it was pointless, why did they do the swap the same way with the and when the Clark St tunnels were out of service?

That's a completely different scenario. Part of it has to do with ridership patterns, as you'll have quite a chunk of people wanting to go into Brooklyn along the upper portion of the WPR line, so it would make sense to have the  operate to Wakefield and the  to Dyre Avenue, with any transfers being done at East 180th Street. Also, you can't easily walk from an WPR line to Dyre Avenue line station easily (north of 180th Street).

With respect to Jamaica, multiple bus lines connect to both the  and  , so its pointless to even consider a swap. 

[Daniel The Cool]

53 minutes ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

That's not how it works. You should know this by now.

That's a completely different scenario. Part of it has to do with ridership patterns, as you'll have quite a chunk of people wanting to go into Brooklyn along the upper portion of the WPR line, so it would make sense to have the  operate to Wakefield and the  to Dyre Avenue, with any transfers being done at East 180th Street. Also, you can't easily walk from an WPR line to Dyre Avenue line station easily (north of 180th Street).

Actually that's not the main reason. During the Clark Street G.O, the  Train crews worked/signed up as  Trains between 241st Street and Flatbush Avenue while the  Train crews worked/signed up as  Trains between Dyre Avenue and South Ferry. It's done to balance out the crews without having causing many reassignment jobs and really has very little to do with ridership patterns. 

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

31 minutes ago, Daniel The Cool said:

Actually that's not the main reason. During the Clark Street G.O, the  Train crews worked/signed up as  Trains between 241st Street and Flatbush Avenue while the  Train crews worked/signed up as  Trains between Dyre Avenue and South Ferry. It's done to balance out the crews without having causing many reassignment jobs and really has very little to do with ridership patterns. 

Which is why I said that it was only part of it. 

Yes, I recall the  and  crews operating the other train, but I wasn't exactly sure to what extent it influenced the service patterns, which is why I didn't bring it up. Either way, what you said adds on to why that swap isn't similar to the  /   swap.

[BM5 via Woodhaven]

The Lexington Ave work description has been slightly updated:

PLANNED WORK  Posted: 07/30/2020  6:42PM

SWITCH & TRACK REPLACEMENTS
Monday to Friday, until August 28
 Rush hour service reduced while we replace switches and track near 14 St-Union Sq and Canal St 
Some Brooklyn-bound trains will run via the from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Atlantic Av-Barclays Ctr

Expect crowding and delays during this time. Consider taking alternate routes if you can.

In Manhattan, trains combined run every 2.5 to 3 minutes instead of every 2 to 2.5 minutes during rush hours. 

[Calvin]

1 hour ago, BM5 via Woodhaven said:

The Lexington Ave work description has been slightly updated:

PLANNED WORK  Posted: 07/30/2020  6:42PM

SWITCH & TRACK REPLACEMENTS
Monday to Friday, until August 28
 Rush hour service reduced while we replace switches and track near 14 St-Union Sq and Canal St 
Some Brooklyn-bound trains will run via the from 149 St-Grand Concourse to Atlantic Av-Barclays Ctr

Expect crowding and delays during this time. Consider taking alternate routes if you can.

In Manhattan, trains combined run every 2.5 to 3 minutes instead of every 2 to 2.5 minutes during rush hours. 

From what I've noticed few days ago, the Brooklyn bound  trains via 7 Av Express are the rush hour trippers that ends at Crown Hts-Utica. Both AM and PM. 

[Q43LTD]

This is an interesting GO. Coney Island bound is running via the from Atlantic to Stillwell. Running Express via 4 Av and West End. That's a bit of a huge deviation. The offered "nearby" stations or take the B68. I would've considered the B49 as well.