Total Loss at South Ferry ?

[R10 2952]

For the time being, they ought to waiver the acessibility requirements. And for the long term, they really should consider restructuring those restrictive ADA provisions. I mean really, service to South Ferry can't be restored because the old station doesn't have a damn elevator? Christ.

[Grand Concourse]

For the time being, they ought to waiver the acessibility requirements. And for the long term, they really should consider restructuring those restrictive ADA provisions. I mean really, service to South Ferry can't be restored because the old station doesn't have a damn elevator? Christ.

 

truth.

[Snowblock]

I believe Snowblock was the person who first announced that the loop was classified as revenue trackage.

 

 

There's a difference between the trackage becoming revenue and the STATION reopening. In order for the station to open, new gap fillers would need to be installed, all of that garbage would have to get removed from the platform, and ADA ramps would need to be installed. Plus the original exit would have to be unsealed, as there's no way that a single door into the new mezzanine would be able to handle two way traffic.

 

Also, the new South Ferry doesn't have a tower. It was controlled by RCC from day 1. The South Ferry loop didn't have a tower either - before ATS it was controlled by Nevins Tower.

[jgood6195]

Wow there... they really knew a hurricane was coming a year or so before.

 

Well, so much for the lower Manhattan post 9/11 redevelopment plan.

[Quill Depot]

Approximately 20% of people have disabilities. Not all of them limit people to not be able to walk up stairs. The fact that ADA is limiting convenience is disgusting me.

[AndrewJC]

Maybe they will reopen the loop. Seriously, they need to have the trains running to South Ferry for all the ferry commuters that transfer to the . If they can't fix up the current station, they might have to reopen the loop, at least temporarily.

 

It's a 5 minute walk from Rector to South Ferry. Battery Park is one block from the south end of Rector. Hardly the end of the world.

 

I think riders heading to South Ferry will continue to transfer for the at Times Square-42nd Street to Whitehall Street or take the at Chambers Street to Fulton Street for the to Bowling Green like they always do presently. These alternatives are in put still until the South Ferry two-track full length station on the Broadway-Seventh Avenue Line reopens after a year or so.

 

Most 1 riders heading to South Ferry simply walk from Rector. Transferring to the R takes longer, and the walk through the Fulton complex from the 2/3 to the 4/5 is probably longer than the walk from Rector to South Ferry!

 

i know, but like I said, way too much for one area.sadly so...exactly. Better some service than no service. I don't think it's fair to expect people to be packing on the 4 5 if they can restore the 1 to SF.

 

Why would 1 riders (looking for the West Side) pack the 4/5 (which runs up the East Side)?

[Cait Sith]

Again, you folks are forgetting a few very important details about this. First and foremost, that station was funded by federal earmarks. If the government does actually get its collective heads out of their ass and pass a relief bill, they're likely to want any money allocated to the subway to go to the project they funded, not the obsolete loops.

 

Secondly, even if they were to reopen the loops and abandon the new station, they'd lose 3/4ths the capacity they have, along with the ADA accessibility and the connection with lower Broadway, which has proven invaluable when work affects 7th Avenue.

 

Sometimes, I think some of you guys like to toss around ideas without fully grasping the ramifications of said idea. Look, I get that new South Ferry could've been built better. However, there's no proof that had the station been built with proper waterproofing, the damage would have been less. Abandoning a newer station in favor of one that is inferior in almost every way is completely ridiculous.

 

Well said.

 

And like I said previously in another post...these are just kids wishing for the xmas gifts(for the loop to be reopened)

[Wallyhorse]

And like I said previously in another post...these are just kids wishing for the xmas gifts(for the loop to be reopened)

 

This is where if I were Cuomo, I'd be ordering a few things being done (and it has ZERO to do with foaming):

 

First, as a temporary fix, getting the old SF station open so the can go back to terminating there like it did before the current station opened. At the same time, I would order that work be done around the station being opened so whatever ADA work needed can be done so the station can stay open full time once the moves back to new SF.

 

After old SF is re-opened as a temporary station, I would order that the short platform at BG (along with any and all ADA work necessary that is likely needed in the full BG station anyway) be fixed up and readied so the Bowling Green-South Ferry Shuttle can be revived as part of a plan that permanently has old SF servicing the Lexington Avenue line in one way or another.

 

The BG-SF shuttle would ONLY run on (usually) weekdays when capacity issues force the to terminate at BB (this possibly would be only during rush hours in fact). When enough fewer and trains are running to Brooklyn to allow it, service on the BG-SF shuttle shuts down for the day and the replaces it at old SF. The would also run to old SF when running in Manhattan, but not to Brooklyn. Weekends (with limited exceptions when the for example is running on the Lex due to a G.O.), the and would both terminate at old SF. As part of this, there would also be a FREE transfer in the Whitehall-South Ferry complex between the two SF stations (creating the only free transfer in the entire system between the and the Lexington Avenue line) and the

 

There is MUCH more to it than just reopening old SF for Lex service (after the new SF station hopefully reopens and the goes back there) so people who are too lazy to walk to BG (or walk there in bad weather) can ride over from SF. My plan would considerably increase evening, weekend and overnight service between BB and BG since the would be operating to old SF whenever there is enough capacity to run the south of BB without affecting the and too much. This would be welcomed in lower Manhattan, which has seen a SHARP increase in residential living in the last 20 years, especially overnights when there would be DOUBLE the service between BG and BB when the would be running to old SF while the runs to Brooklyn. That would be the major benefit of this plan, never mind those who are not comfortable late at night with doing the walk between BG and SF or have physical difficulties doing so.

[Grand Concourse]

Oh god, not the bg shuttle thing again....

[Cait Sith]

Didn't the old South Ferry get significant damage? And wasn't the entrances closed off? Last I walked past the main entrance, there were lots of electrical equipment.

[Via Garibaldi 8]

Why would 1 riders (looking for the West Side) pack the 4/5 (which runs up the East Side)?

Simple... Just because the goes along the West Side doesn't mean that folks can't use the . Depending on one's location both options are fine. When I worked in Chelsea, I used to use both interchangeably. While the walk from or to the wasn't bad, the and ran less frequent than the and and there was generally a decent little wait which was annoying. Take that and then the walk to 5th Avenue and it's a toss up from Union Square or the 7th & 14th street station. The other issue is with the it was always hard to catch it coming from the ferry or the express bus and it seemed like it would arrive at South Ferry just in time to miss the boat. If I took the West Side option I would have to walk to 14th street for immediate express service or take the and transfer in hopes of getting a further down which often times worked out. The and for whatever reason linked up better and not necessarily because of frequency. Just a matter of the schedule I guess.

[Fresh Pond]

This is where if I were Cuomo, I'd be ordering a few things being done (and it has ZERO to do with foaming):

 

First, as a temporary fix, getting the old SF station open so the can go back to terminating there like it did before the current station opened. At the same time, I would order that work be done around the station being opened so whatever ADA work needed can be done so the station can stay open full time once the moves back to new SF.

 

After old SF is re-opened as a temporary station, I would order that the short platform at BG (along with any and all ADA work necessary that is likely needed in the full BG station anyway) be fixed up and readied so the Bowling Green-South Ferry Shuttle can be revived as part of a plan that permanently has old SF servicing the Lexington Avenue line in one way or another.

 

The BG-SF shuttle would ONLY run on (usually) weekdays when capacity issues force the to terminate at BB (this possibly would be only during rush hours in fact). When enough fewer and trains are running to Brooklyn to allow it, service on the BG-SF shuttle shuts down for the day and the replaces it at old SF. The would also run to old SF when running in Manhattan, but not to Brooklyn. Weekends (with limited exceptions when the for example is running on the Lex due to a G.O.), the and would both terminate at old SF. As part of this, there would also be a FREE transfer in the Whitehall-South Ferry complex between the two SF stations (creating the only free transfer in the entire system between the and the Lexington Avenue line) and the

 

There is MUCH more to it than just reopening old SF for Lex service (after the new SF station hopefully reopens and the goes back there) so people who are too lazy to walk to BG (or walk there in bad weather) can ride over from SF. My plan would considerably increase evening, weekend and overnight service between BB and BG since the would be operating to old SF whenever there is enough capacity to run the south of BB without affecting the and too much. This would be welcomed in lower Manhattan, which has seen a SHARP increase in residential living in the last 20 years, especially overnights when there would be DOUBLE the service between BG and BB when the would be running to old SF while the runs to Brooklyn. That would be the major benefit of this plan, never mind those who are not comfortable late at night with doing the walk between BG and SF or have physical difficulties doing so.

 

So lemme get this straight...you would spend millions upon millions of dollars (which dont grow on trees) to upgrade a station temporarily until the main station (which is already upgraded at that as per ADA laws) is back online?

 

Dude, what the fawk...really now? Lets break this down...

 

1. Its impossible to extend the old SF loop since there's switches at either end of the platform.

2. The inner loop platform is way too much of a gap to even be used again. They used a modified set of cars (I think R12s) just to only the center doors would open up alone.

2a. The Bowling Green shuttle platform isn't gonna be used again...ever...in anyone's lifetime...period

3. For the last time, ITS A 3 MINUTE WALK FROM BOWLING GREEN TO SOUTH FERRY!!!!

4. No one is gonna benefit from this except for you

5. The inner loop has all of its exits (I think it was 1 anyway) sealed off and slabbed over with concrete

6. The outer loop isn't fit for service at all. Just to add another exit alone (dunno where you gonna put it) is gonna run into the 7 figure price range, possibly even 8.

7. The cost to get the loop up to ADA standards would cost way more than building a new station from scratch. It takes time to plan it out and by that time you can have the regular station up and running

 

...end rant

[Tim92]

So lemme get this straight...you would spend millions upon millions of dollars (which dont grow on trees) to upgrade a station temporarily until the main station (which is already upgraded at that as per ADA laws) is back online?

 

Dude, what the fawk...really now? Lets break this down...

 

1. Its impossible to extend the old SF loop since there's switches at either end of the platform.

2. The inner loop platform is way too much of a gap to even be used again. They used a modified set of cars (I think R12s) just to only the center doors would open up alone.

2a. The Bowling Green shuttle platform isn't gonna be used again...ever...in anyone's lifetime...period

3. For the last time, ITS A 3 MINUTE WALK FROM BOWLING GREEN TO SOUTH FERRY!!!!

4. No one is gonna benefit from this except for you

5. The inner loop has all of its exits (I think it was 1 anyway) sealed off and slabbed over with concrete

6. The outer loop isn't fit for service at all. Just to add another exit alone (dunno where you gonna put it) is gonna run into the 7 figure price range, possibly even 8.

7. The cost to get the loop up to ADA standards would cost way more than building a new station from scratch. It takes time to plan it out and by that time you can have the regular station up and running

 

...end rant

 

small rage, but i agree with him, all of that can create problems

[M31clinton]

Same crap you posted on subchat...give it up already

 

 

This is where if I were Cuomo, I'd be ordering a few things being done (and it has ZERO to do with foaming):

 

First, as a temporary fix, getting the old SF station open so the can go back to terminating there like it did before the current station opened. At the same time, I would order that work be done around the station being opened so whatever ADA work needed can be done so the station can stay open full time once the moves back to new SF.

 

After old SF is re-opened as a temporary station, I would order that the short platform at BG (along with any and all ADA work necessary that is likely needed in the full BG station anyway) be fixed up and readied so the Bowling Green-South Ferry Shuttle can be revived as part of a plan that permanently has old SF servicing the Lexington Avenue line in one way or another.

 

The BG-SF shuttle would ONLY run on (usually) weekdays when capacity issues force the to terminate at BB (this possibly would be only during rush hours in fact). When enough fewer and trains are running to Brooklyn to allow it, service on the BG-SF shuttle shuts down for the day and the replaces it at old SF. The would also run to old SF when running in Manhattan, but not to Brooklyn. Weekends (with limited exceptions when the for example is running on the Lex due to a G.O.), the and would both terminate at old SF. As part of this, there would also be a FREE transfer in the Whitehall-South Ferry complex between the two SF stations (creating the only free transfer in the entire system between the and the Lexington Avenue line) and the

 

There is MUCH more to it than just reopening old SF for Lex service (after the new SF station hopefully reopens and the goes back there) so people who are too lazy to walk to BG (or walk there in bad weather) can ride over from SF. My plan would considerably increase evening, weekend and overnight service between BB and BG since the would be operating to old SF whenever there is enough capacity to run the south of BB without affecting the and too much. This would be welcomed in lower Manhattan, which has seen a SHARP increase in residential living in the last 20 years, especially overnights when there would be DOUBLE the service between BG and BB when the would be running to old SF while the runs to Brooklyn. That would be the major benefit of this plan, never mind those who are not comfortable late at night with doing the walk between BG and SF or have physical difficulties doing so.

 

[Tim92]

Same crap you posted on subchat...give it up already

 

He did write this on subchat

[Kamen Rider]

This is where if I were Cuomo, I'd be ordering a few things being done (and it has ZERO to do with foaming):

 

excised for space and sanity

 

 

 

That was nothing but foaming!

[Metro CSW]

Wallyhorse, everybody pretty much called you out on your so-called "non-foaming idea." #applywateronburnedareas!!

[Kamen Rider]

he was trying to pitch re-opening the loop station before it closed the first time...

[Via Garibaldi 8]

LOL... Oh boy... I was glad to see that damn loop closed... It was annoying for several reasons... The lack of space for passengers for starters, having to walk to the first five cars and then the wait to make the dash upstairs just in time to miss the ferry. All reasons why it should not be re-opened. That new South Ferry station was fought for for years particularly for Staten Islanders to make their commutes better. The new station has its faults but it would be easier to re-do it and make that one better than the old loop.

[CenSin]

Approximately 20% of people have disabilities. Not all of them limit people to not be able to walk up stairs. The fact that ADA is limiting convenience is disgusting me.

 

And approximately 75% to 90% of those people have these disabilities because they never move. They rely on being moved. Some of these ADA features should really be restricted to people who are actually disabled or are hobbled by some luggage they're carrying. If they can walk, they should be leaving room on the elevators for people who can't.

[CenSin]

This is where if I were Cuomo, I'd be ordering a few things being done (and it has ZERO to do with foaming):

 

First, as a temporary fix, getting the old SF station open so the can go back to terminating there like it did before the current station opened. At the same time, I would order that work be done around the station being opened so whatever ADA work needed can be done so the station can stay open full time once the moves back to new SF.

 

After old SF is re-opened as a temporary station, I would order that the short platform at BG (along with any and all ADA work necessary that is likely needed in the full BG station anyway) be fixed up and readied so the Bowling Green-South Ferry Shuttle can be revived as part of a plan that permanently has old SF servicing the Lexington Avenue line in one way or another.

 

The BG-SF shuttle would ONLY run on (usually) weekdays when capacity issues force the to terminate at BB (this possibly would be only during rush hours in fact). When enough fewer and trains are running to Brooklyn to allow it, service on the BG-SF shuttle shuts down for the day and the replaces it at old SF. The would also run to old SF when running in Manhattan, but not to Brooklyn. Weekends (with limited exceptions when the for example is running on the Lex due to a G.O.), the and would both terminate at old SF. As part of this, there would also be a FREE transfer in the Whitehall-South Ferry complex between the two SF stations (creating the only free transfer in the entire system between the and the Lexington Avenue line) and the

 

There is MUCH more to it than just reopening old SF for Lex service (after the new SF station hopefully reopens and the goes back there) so people who are too lazy to walk to BG (or walk there in bad weather) can ride over from SF. My plan would considerably increase evening, weekend and overnight service between BB and BG since the would be operating to old SF whenever there is enough capacity to run the south of BB without affecting the and too much. This would be welcomed in lower Manhattan, which has seen a SHARP increase in residential living in the last 20 years, especially overnights when there would be DOUBLE the service between BG and BB when the would be running to old SF while the runs to Brooklyn. That would be the major benefit of this plan, never mind those who are not comfortable late at night with doing the walk between BG and SF or have physical difficulties doing so.

 

I'm glad the real Cuomo isn't nuts.

[Quill Depot]

So lemme get this straight...you would spend millions upon millions of dollars (which dont grow on trees) to upgrade a station temporarily until the main station (which is already upgraded at that as per ADA laws) is back online?

 

Dude, what the fawk...really now? Lets break this down...

 

*long rant that is a little offense*

...end rant

 

 

I do see your point. Is there any way to say it in a nice way. Was saying it in an offensive way necessary. Also what about leaving it alone. The only thing you want is a popular post!

[Grand Concourse]

Is that post really necessary because you don't like the tone of some people? I hate to burst your rosy colored bubble, but some people deserve that tone of talk they get because they do not learn and repeat the same crap over and over again despite reasons of why it won't work. Why the hell is there a need for this shuttle from bowling green when the walk is 3 blocks?

 

And as for the other post in the t train yard thread, by his comments, the op is a troll. He could've looked up the sas thread instead of wasting everyone's time with a question no one has any answers to. It's clear he wanted attention and he seems to have bought your sympathy.

[ttcsubwayfan]

I do see your point. Is there any way to say it in a nice way. Was saying it in an offensive way necessary. Also what about leaving it alone. The only thing you want is a popular post!

 

 

That is how the internet works. If people have problems with it then they shouldn't be on a forum in the first place.

[Quill Depot]

And as for the other post in the t train yard thread, by his comments, the op is a troll. He could've looked up the sas thread instead of wasting everyone's time with a question no one has any answers to. It's clear he wanted attention and he seems to have bought your sympathy.

 

 

Same with Mr. Fresh Pond.