MTA Considers Partition on Subway Platforms

[Guest Lance]

Not for nothing Jon (and anyone else who this applies to), but the reason PSDs should not be considered should have nothing to do with whether or not it effects your ability to take photos or videos of your favorite train.

[lilbluefoxie]

Does it really matter , a Subway like a bus is about getting from Point A to B , its not really about looks its about convince and speed....ads bring in much need revenue , it may not be alot but its still money....

 

Why does the MTA spend money on Arts for Transit then and why do some stations have special designs rather than leaving them all plain and sterile. Why bother cleaning up any of them then, just leave em all with plain white tiles and plain station signs and be done with it. If its outdoors just repaint the metal windscreens instead of adding in stained glass and open wire windscreens.

 

Not for nothing Jon (and anyone else who this applies to), but the reason PSDs should not be considered should have nothing to do with whether or not it effects your ability to take photos or videos of your favorite train.

 

Thats why I have brought up plenty of other reasons if you have been reading.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Does it really matter , a Subway like a bus is about getting from Point A to B , its not really about looks its about convince and speed....ads bring in much need revenue , it may not be alot but its still money....

 

Could that be a reason used against the renovation of Chambers ?

 

I mean, as long as it works, who cares what it looks like... right?

[lilbluefoxie]

And after 9 pages of speculation, do we actually have any real news if the is actually doing anything, have they decided on anything yet? Has it gone anywhere past 'looking into it'?

[Guest Lance]

Nope, but you know how these things go.

[Grand Concourse]

I think it was to be expected, every time there's a 12-9 and people start going on like the platform doors are needed or a given.... It'll never end.

[azspeedbullet]

i think there was a 12-9 this morning on the L train at bedford..crazy people

[HenryB]

I think it was to be expected, every time there's a 12-9 and people start going on like the platform doors are needed or a given.... It'll never end.

Those doors aren't "given"...that's true...it takes time + money

but do you think they are not "needed".....? It sounds like other metro systems are doing something "unnecessary"

[Grand Concourse]

And their systems are how old? It isn't easy to retrofit the doors on curved platforms and different train types. And this is what to prevent up to 300 12-9's a year for a system that transports millions of riders a year? How about this: the day all the stations are up to decent shape (including all of sea beach and the J/Z Chambers st station) and then I'll reconsider my stance on the platform doors. But till then station maintenance shouldn't take a back seat because people are getting all hyped up worried about the 'rise' of incidents.

[Art Vandelay]

While saving lives is far from a small issue it is also not the only or even biggest reason for putting up platform doors. The point of the  subway is to move people rapidly. If a 12-9 occurs you can delay millions of people for potentially multiple hours. That is millions of man hours lost. hundreds to thousands of hours in overtime payed to crews, etc. 

 

And 12-9s are far from the only way that disastrous delays get caused by lack of proper separation between the trackbed and the platform. 

[lilbluefoxie]

its not the only reason things get delayed on the subway, people holding doors, signal trouble, weather, stuck switches,etc.

[Art Vandelay]

No, but many of the delays which are substantial- 12/9s, unauthorized people on tracks, objects on tracks, track fires, arson, etc. would be prevented by such. And these also tend to be the ones which cause some of the biggest jams. 

[lilbluefoxie]

the garbage wouldnt totally be eradicated, for one thing people could just toss trash between the doors, if its a half height door they could just throw it over the wall.

[Minato ku]

It depends the height of the half height door.

If the door is 170 cm (5 ft 7) tall, it is less likely.

[Drag0nflamez]

 

the garbage wouldnt totally be eradicated, for one thing people could just toss trash between the doors, if its a half height door they could just throw it over the wall.

And if the doors are high enough, they will throw their trash on the platform where it can easily be cleaned up... (or the unlikely event will happen when everyone takes their trash above ground or into the garbage can.

[pjbr40]

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/01/22/man-killed-by-subway-in-times-square/

 

 

Another subway tragedy

[realizm]

Well out of the people that want these things, who's willing to pay more money in fares and tolls for it? We got a huge fare increase coming this March and I'm sure its going to require another one to offset the huge costs of installing and maintaining such screens. Don't count on Albany or Washington for money, both places are struggling to control the out of control spending and deficits. Look at the arguments over Hurricane Sandy Relief.

 

As for the place offering to do it in exchange for putting ads

 

 

Is this what you really want your Subway system to look like? Forget the photo aspect, those ad wraps just make it look fugly.

 

That looks absolutely horrible beyond words. Commercialism to the absolute extreme. Re-quoted with pic for the shock value.

[Minato ku]

Anyway in New York, there isn't an abuse of the publicity space in the subway and in the bus by the MTA.

I don't see why it would be the case with platform doors.

[StevenFrancis]

Well out of the people that want these things, who's willing to pay more money in fares and tolls for it? We got a huge fare increase coming this March and I'm sure its going to require another one to offset the huge costs of installing and maintaining such screens. Don't count on Albany or Washington for money, both places are struggling to control the out of control spending and deficits. Look at the arguments over Hurricane Sandy Relief.

 

As for the place offering to do it in exchange for putting ads

 

 

Is this what you really want your Subway system to look like? Forget the photo aspect, those ad wraps just make it look fugly.

There isn't going to be ad wraps on the screen doors because of several reasons:

1: People aren't going to know which train it is arriving (especially if its more than one line) or which terminal it is going to (if it has more than one (basically you wont see side signs)

2: It would be unsafe especially for those people who like to lean on doors, and suddenly those things open up

3: Operators wont know which station it is and conductors wont tell whether it is time to close the doors

See what pesky ad-wraps can do?

[StevenFrancis]

But won't these doors czuse another problem, considering the shear din of the subway how would people be able to hear announcements like the next stop or anything with these doors and since air is going to be trapped in the track way and burst out when the doors opene especially when HVAC is running, then it would be very difficult to hear announcements , I mean you can barely hear them with the R142s, R143s, and R160s and platform screen doors arent even put in yet.

[HenryB]

But won't these doors czuse another problem, considering the shear din of the subway how would people be able to hear announcements like the next stop or anything with these doors and since air is going to be trapped in the track way and burst out when the doors opene especially when HVAC is running, then it would be very difficult to hear announcements , I mean you can barely hear them with the R142s, R143s, and R160s and platform screen doors arent even put in yet.

The train should be connected with the announce system of the platform

That's why No CBTC = Difficult to put and operate PSD on the platform.....

[lilbluefoxie]

There isn't going to be ad wraps on the screen doors because of several reasons:

1: People aren't going to know which train it is arriving (especially if its more than one line) or which terminal it is going to (if it has more than one (basically you wont see side signs)

2: It would be unsafe especially for those people who like to lean on doors, and suddenly those things open up

3: Operators wont know which station it is and conductors wont tell whether it is time to close the doors

See what pesky ad-wraps can do?

 

1) If they decide to install them, they are likely to go to lines with automated train control so the stops would be precise to make them useable. In that case its the or the which don't have anything else sharing the tracks.

2) clear glass wouldn't matter, they'd still lean on it and fall off when it opens.

3) They probably would have a space open for the conductor to look out of. (the has no conductor) Even if its not a full wrap, its enough to completely uglify the stations worse than the general neglect does.

[AndrewJC]

And their systems are how old? 

 

The Paris Metro opened in 1900 and recently installed platform screen doors on its oldest line, in conjunction with ZPTO.

 

I'm not going to weigh in on whether our subway system should get PSD's, and installing them would certainly be very challenging, but there's no question that it could be done if the desire and the funding are there.

[itmaybeokay]

3) They probably would have a space open for the conductor to look out of. (the has no conductor) Even if its not a full wrap, its enough to completely uglify the stations worse than the general neglect does.

 

The absolutely has a conductor. It was originally supposed to be OPTO when CBTC was installed, however the union fought it, and the only non-shuttle OPTO line is still the on weekends. 

[HenryB]

I have an idea. Is it possible to do OPTO but place all conductors to platforms?

Set up "control rooms" on every stations and place them in, let them monitor the passengers when they get in/out of trains, report crimes on platform, report emergency situatons to control center and the approaching train immediately, make announcement...etc. No matter we will have PSD or not, those control rooms might help trains and platforms operate in a higher efficiency with same/close amount of operating personnel.

 

btw....lets talk about the "ugliness" of PSD/half height PSD

what makes PSD "ugly"...? I don't think PSD is always ugly...It depends to it matchs the style of the platform of not.