MTA Considers Partition on Subway Platforms

[lilbluefoxie]

this isn't going to be like the AirTrain where the stations are newer and modern, and I went to look at them there when I was at Kennedy Airport giving a friend a ride home from the airport, I wound up getting there early so I decided to check em out. There its a lot different because the stations are designed around them.

 

 

 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2013/01/23/why-the-renewed-attention-to-subway-related-deaths/ heres an interesting article...

 

It appears these 12-9s aren't on the rise they're just more commonly reported on to fit a media narrative which is what I knew all along.

[Grand Concourse]

"It appears these 12-9s aren't on the rise they're just more commonly reported on to fit a media narrative which is what I knew all along."

 

See, not very surprising at all. Plus accounting all the people with smartphones playing 'reporter' it's harder to keep all these reports off the web. Media feeding the hysteria...

[Nexis4Jersey]

this isn't going to be like the AirTrain where the stations are newer and modern, and I went to look at them there when I was at Kennedy Airport giving a friend a ride home from the airport, I wound up getting there early so I decided to check em out. There its a lot different because the stations are designed around them.

 

 

 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2013/01/23/why-the-renewed-attention-to-subway-related-deaths/ heres an interesting article...

 

It appears these 12-9s aren't on the rise they're just more commonly reported on to fit a media narrative which is what I knew all along.

Paris , Tokyo didn't have to remodel there stations neither did London....   Just Stop putting your foot in your mouth....

[lilbluefoxie]

Paris , Tokyo didn't have to remodel there stations neither did London....   Just Stop putting your foot in your mouth....

 

And when did I say the stations needed renovating? He wanted to know about the aesthetics and I was saying that its not going to be like the Air Train where the system is modern and the stations are designed around it. I think you're the one Corey that needs to stop putting your foot in your mouth

[Art Vandelay]

Actually, the paris ones do look a decent amount like airtrain, and they really don't look bad at all in my opinion. 

[realizm]

 http://secondavenuesagas.com/2013/01/23/why-the-renewed-attention-to-subway-related-deaths/ heres an interesting article...

 

It appears these 12-9s aren't on the rise they're just more commonly reported on to fit a media narrative which is what I knew all along.

 

 

Carefully read the article from Second Ave Sagas, and thanks for the link. Ben Kabek may be absolutely correct with his sources. However these stats goes back only back to 2001 if I read this correctly. There is nothing to compare rates of 12-9's in the subways to, previous to 2001, so I am still not quite convinced and I would still have to take his comments in his blog post as an educated, well articulated, well written opinion on this subject, as is mine.

 

 

In 2012, 141 people were struck by trains and 55 died. That fatality number was up from in 2011, when 146 people were struck by trains but 47 died. In 2010, 127 people were struck by trains and 51 died. In 2009, 136 people were hit by subway cars, of whom 49 died. The M.T.A.’s data on this only goes back to 2001, but in those years, the high mark for fatalities was set at 55 in 2007, and matched last year.

 

 

As much as you (and Grand Concourse) has a good point on the media hysteria over this phenomonon, my perspective comes from this fact --- generally, in US society, there is a definite 15% to a 19% rise in suicides (in general!) since the 1990's, and definitely since 2007, when we experienced the start of a severe ressession in the United States, according to sources I've read. Hence my opinion on this.

 

Generally speaking things are getting bad because of society and our economic situation here in the Big Apple. I know I took my rose colored glasses off and left them in the dresser before I ventured into this discussion also observing the troubles people are experiencing today in NYC which is serious. Media hype or not. I am seeing it with my own two eyes.

[Drag0nflamez]

 

Paris , Tokyo didn't have to remodel there stations neither did London....   Just Stop putting your foot in your mouth....

London didn't need to remodel their stations because the JLE ones were already designed for it. They used them after learning quite a few lessons about fire after the KX fire.

[StevenFrancis]

So...the trains should be upgraded to have sensors on trains doors + seletive reopen system.

when a set of door( plus a set of PSDs) got blocked, that set of doors and PSDs will release a little bit to let the person/subject go

then the PSDs could operate safety + efficiently

 

However...i don't suggest MTA to install PSDs and upgrade the trains before the installation of CBTC-based ATO...PSDs work much better in a CBTC system

Yes at least that, cuz these doors are implemented for safety not for extra fatalities

[vprojis]

I don't see how this case could happen, the space between the train and the door is very small. Too small to fit somebody.

If any of the doors is not closed, the train can't leave the station.

 

 

and what will that cause?? More delay!! People wont back off even if they see that the train is full. Now the C/R has another extra set of doors to be concerned about..... It doesn't have to fail mechanically or electrically. Debris in between the doors, can cause the doors not to close... So, now even if the C/R has indication in both section, train still can't be moved and somebody will have to go and investigate (it will be even better if its a OPTO, like how MTA want it to be in the future) More than half of the current door problems we get each day is caused by foreign objects (simple $ small Garbage thrown away by people such as Gum, Pen/Pencils, batteries, news papers etc) in door tracks

[StevenFrancis]

There is no such thing as a station that is too deep. 168th St is the deepest point in the system, and yet, that's still a station.

I thought it was 191st on the

 

There is no such thing as a station that is too deep. 168th St is the deepest point in the system, and yet, that's still a station.

I thought it was 191st on the

[vprojis]

Also, as Minato Ku points out- In each system in place so far, and almost certainly in whatever NYCT would put in place, there is no such room for anyone to get stuck between doors and car, and so such would be a nonissue.

 

If we still have people falling in between platform and car body (thresh hold plates), it wouldn't matter how close to the platform edge they build the glass door, there still will be enough room for a human being to stand between the car body and platform doors. AND if you have noticed, you will see that the edge of the platforms are just piece of wood, supported by another piece of wood under. So, we WILL NOT be able to build those glass doors at the edge of the platform. Which means that somebody CAN get stuck in between the car body and platform door OR platform and threshold plates with the platform door and car doors closed. (this will be worst).

    AND  If somebody wants to jump in front of a train (12-9), they will have enough space for themselves to clear in between the doors and car body where they can wait for the next train to jump.

 

12-9s will still be happening, people can jump, fall, or push others from in-between cars while train is moving. (there were 2 12-9s with-in the last 2 weeks, where someone fall onto the tracks from in-between cars). So, I think spending all these money just to avoid 12-9s will be a HUGE waste

[vprojis]

But times has changed. Here - Sociology 101, let me break it down, lend me an ear.....

 

Realistically, people are under more stress today in NYC then 110 years ago for a ton of reasons. Financial woes, family problems, loss of jobs, marital problems, increase in ppl suffering from mental disorders, generally major problems that some cannot bear. Part of the reason has to do with the fact that we are living in a major bustling city that was more dense in population then 110 years ago that in itself creates stress in general. Sometimes depression which leads to suicidal tenancies due to the horrible stresses of life leads to 12-9's and people taking their own lives in general (Jumping off buildings, putting guns to their heads and blowing the trigger and deliberate drug overdose etc. etc).

 

The increase of 12-9's is a symptom of a very serious social problem. Have you looked at the news? (I'm sure you have I know you are an intelligent person from your comments) Things are NOT all peaches and cream nowadays. Just saying. Sometimes stress and feelings of hopelessness overrides wisdom and common sense. We are only human. Hence the need for platform barriers if we look at this from not just a practical standpoint but an ethical standpoint!

 

Not to mention the benefits in terms of indoor climate control in the stations but that's a moot point now I guess from the good points brought out by many in this discussion.

 

MTA is not here to deal with people's personal or social issues. If somebody wants to kill themselves, they will certainly find a way to do so..... So, why don't we put barriers on bridges?? people are jumping off the bridges and killing themselves. Why don't we Ban alcoholic beverages?? Most of the 12-9 reports says that "the victim found to be intoxicated" I think that can save life too. 

 

 "indoor climate control in the stations" 

If you have ever noticed, you will see that the new tech trains doesn't get as hot or cold as the order train (68s, 46s). The reason behind that is, so the homeless peoples wont make a home inside the trains. (but some of them still do it). If you control the climate inside the station to a comfort level, it will be filled with homeless people who can and will do crazy sh!t!! So, i am sure that TA will not go for the climate control inside the stations.

[vprojis]

To my friends who mention subways in Paris and sao paulo city;

                      Both of the system will be fully close down by 12:00 Midnight on weekday and 01:00 AM on weekends and re-opens at 04:30-5:00 AM, like many many other system. That means, they have more than enough time to do maintenance, inspection, and repairs to there equipments. Now you tell me how we will do the maintains here while operating 24/7. Here, MTA will get the cheapest equipments which means that will require DAILY Maintains and Repairs, not just during FAST TRACKS!!!. In order to do that, we will have to shut down the station completely and can't have trains to be running through that track/station at that time. This thing will only going to add another "delay message" in our AAS system with the "delayed by track workers, held by dispatcher, delayed by signal trouble, etc" 

[realizm]

MTA is not here to deal with people's personal or social issues. If somebody wants to kill themselves, they will certainly find a way to do so..... So, why don't we put barriers on bridges?? people are jumping off the bridges and killing themselves. Why don't we Ban alcoholic beverages?? Most of the 12-9 reports says that "the victim found to be intoxicated" I think that can save life too. 

 

 "indoor climate control in the stations" 

If you have ever noticed, you will see that the new tech trains doesn't get as hot or cold as the order train (68s, 46s). The reason behind that is, so the homeless peoples wont make a home inside the trains. (but some of them still do it). If you control the climate inside the station to a comfort level, it will be filled with homeless people who can and will do crazy sh!t!! So, i am sure that TA will not go for the climate control inside the stations.

 

 

 

Very passionate statement.

 

Well first, there are barriers on the bridges, on the pedestrian walkways, to prevent falls is'nt it? Was'nt that the purpose of the installation of gates along the bridge pedestrian walkways among other reasons? Unless you have a different take on the purpose of them.

 

Second, many people who are prone to commit suicide will be prone to intoxicate themselves somehow, in order to, deal with the depression that is causing them to have suicidal ideologies in the first place. Third, the 12-9's occuring is a public relations issue that the MTA has the responsibility of dealing with as a public benefits corperation serving the public. Therefore they need to think carefully about how to address the issue. Which is why it is in the news. Which is why we are discussing this side point to begin with. Which is why the MTA is publically acknoledging it and trying to come up with solutions. If not platform barriers, other alternatives.

 

Climate control in the trains itself has nothing to do with the temperture conditions inside the stations itself. And would'nt the point of controlling the climate inside the stations benefit the riders? The more important thing being the daily commuters and their comfort as they commute? I would think so.

 

Let me add that banning alcohol will not solve the problem. It would not make me a very happy man if I can't get my beer at the corner bodega. Many here would agree.

 

As for the homeless, that is an unfortunate problem due to a flawed society. If you can come up with a grand solution to THAT problem, I am all ears! I'll be here for a while. Brainstorm on it and let me know. Take your time.

[Vistausss]

Well, there are also more 12-9s here in The Netherlands (almost everyday there is at least 1) on the national railways and I also see it uprising in Japan as well. So it's not really a USA problem, it's becoming a worldwide problem and the media should just back off to prevent making it popular.

[lilbluefoxie]

Well first, there are barriers on the bridges, on the pedestrian walkways, to prevent falls is'nt it? Was'nt that the purpose of the installation of gates along the bridge pedestrian walkways among other reasons? Unless you have a different take on the purpose of them.

 

Second, many people who are prone to commit suicide will be prone to intoxicate themselves somehow, in order to, deal with the depression that is causing them to have suicidal ideologies in the first place. Third, the 12-9's occuring is a public relations issue that the MTA has the responsibility of dealing with as a public benefits corperation serving the public. Therefore they need to think carefully about how to address the issue. Which is why it is in the news. Which is why we are discussing this side point to begin with. Which is why the MTA is publically acknoledging it and trying to come up with solutions. If not platform barriers, other alternatives.

 

Climate control in the trains itself has nothing to do with the temperture conditions inside the stations itself. And would'nt the point of controlling the climate inside the stations benefit the riders? The more important thing being the daily commuters and their comfort as they commute? I would think so.

 

Theres a difference between falling 20+ feet onto a highway and falling 5 feet onto a trackbed, youre more likely to survive falling onto the trackbed, especially if you fall down after the train leaves and theres a long wait till the next one. If you fall from an overpass onto a highway, youre basically doomed because you will get run over. If you fall off the walkway on a bridge into the water you will be killed on impact.

 

As for air conditioning the stations, do you REALLY think after spending a ton of money on platform screens, the MTA is going to have the money to spend on putting air conditioning in the stations as well. The tunnels arent the only place where air can escape, how do you air condition the mezzanies and turnstile levels as well as the transfer corridors, since each station has an open aired staircase leading down into the station

[Nexis4Jersey]

Theres a difference between falling 20+ feet onto a highway and falling 5 feet onto a trackbed, youre more likely to survive falling onto the trackbed, especially if you fall down after the train leaves and theres a long wait till the next one. If you fall from an overpass onto a highway, youre basically doomed because you will get run over. If you fall off the walkway on a bridge into the water you will be killed on impact.

 

As for air conditioning the stations, do you REALLY think after spending a ton of money on platform screens, the MTA is going to have the money to spend on putting air conditioning in the stations as well. The tunnels arent the only place where air can escape, how do you air condition the mezzanies and turnstile levels as well as the transfer corridors, since each station has an open aired staircase leading down into the station

 

The stations can sealed , the PATH plans on using platform screen doors at WTC , Grove Street and 14th Street....all you need are some doors between the connecting space and the platforms.   You have to be Naive if you think you could survive fall on the tracks , most people who aren't run over get electrocuted....and then die.

[CenSin]

 

The tunnels arent the only place where air can escape, how do you air condition the mezzanies and turnstile levels as well as the transfer corridors, since each station has an open aired staircase leading down into the station

Physical science lesson: cold air sinks. Hot air rises.

[Quill Depot]

You will survive a fall on the tracks as you will not get to the third rail. Run to the end of the platform and come up. You will have time... especially in adrenaline.

[itmaybeokay]

You have to be Naive if you think you could survive fall on the tracks , most people who aren't run over get electrocuted....and then die.

 

That's very false.

 

Even most people who are struck by trains don't die. (it's about 1/3)

[realizm]

Theres a difference between falling 20+ feet onto a highway and falling 5 feet onto a trackbed, youre more likely to survive falling onto the trackbed, especially if you fall down after the train leaves and theres a long wait till the next one. If you fall from an overpass onto a highway, youre basically doomed because you will get run over. If you fall off the walkway on a bridge into the water you will be killed on impact.

 

REALLY? WOW! NO KIDDING!!

[StevenFrancis]

The absolutely has a conductor. It was originally supposed to be OPTO when CBTC was installed, however the union fought it, and the only non-shuttle OPTO line is still the on weekends. 

Yeah Ive seen an conductor just a few days ago

[lilbluefoxie]

Physical science lesson: cold air sinks. Hot air rises.

 

Regardless, thats a lot of space to air condition, especially in IND stations. Do you really think the MTA is going to spend money on HVAC units for every single station underground they put platform doors on em.

 

REALLY? WOW! NO KIDDING!!

 

Oooh sarcasm, has someone ran out of real points to debate with? 

[realizm]

Regardless, thats a lot of space to air condition, especially in IND stations. Do you really think the MTA is going to spend money on HVAC units for every single station underground they put platform doors on em.

 

 

Oooh sarcasm, has someone ran out of real points to debate with? 

 

*slap*

 

 

Add: *BACK HAND SLAP* (with powder)

[ttcsubwayfan]

REALLY? WOW! NO KIDDING!!

 

So why would you bring it up?