New Jersey Transit - Random Thoughts Thread

[pjbr40]

just wanted to share with you folks. I was at NWK yesterday waiting for my friend, so i was watching the depaturevision on the screen. There was Acela to Boston which was running 50 minutes late. We all know they alway assign to track 2 but with this train it was assigned to Track A on  last minute.  Now that rare. I bet nobody heard of this before. 

[GojiMet86]

Why do NJT routes have, like, a gazillion variations? The MTA isn't that complicated.

[DaTransitMan4608]

Why do NJT routes have, like, a gazillion variations? The MTA isn't that complicated.

If you're talking about the Route 9 buses (130,132,136,139), it's a combination of spoiled riders who wanted an express route to do the same thing the damn 139 does & people who don't read the signs at PABT.

[Cait Sith]

If you're talking about the Route 9 buses (130,132,136,139), it's a combination of spoiled riders who wanted an express route to do the same thing the damn 139 does & people who don't read the signs at PABT.

 

Well, while part of that is because of it (spoiled riders), it's also demand. Route 9 and Blvd East are among the highest in terms of demand. Different variations makes for faster trips.

[Cait Sith]

The ECOCoach is making a comeback...

EPV's variant has passed testing(not for NJ Transit). They swapped out the CNG with a Diesel engine and it passed. The ECOCoach remains to be the highest graded bus to pass testing out of Altoona next to the Orion VII EPA10.

EPV will soon start taking orders/placing bids on this model.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Cait Sith

[Orion VII 4 Life]

The ECOCoach is making a comeback...

 

EPV's variant has passed testing(not for NJ Transit). They swapped out the CNG with a Diesel engine and it passed. The ECOCoach remains to be the highest graded bus to pass testing out of Altoona next to the Orion VII EPA10.

 

EPV will soon start taking orders/placing bids on this model.

Well looks like the new MCIs will be the last we'll see around here for a while, between MTA being big with Prevost now and NJT about to order 1000+ of these no doubt (the bus was basically designed for NJT and they really wanted it). Look they even put an EasySpeak in the demo, wouldn't be surprised if it got built to NJT specs like DL's demo.

 

I actually liked the new MCIs too...

[Cait Sith]

Well looks like the new MCIs will be the last we'll see around here for a while, between MTA being big with Prevost now and NJT about to order 1000+ of these no doubt (the bus was basically designed for NJT and they really wanted it). Look they even put an EasySpeak in the demo, wouldn't be surprised if it got built to NJT specs like DL's demo.

 

I actually liked the new MCIs too...

 

I wouldn't say NJ Transit will order these again, but never say never.

 

The reason the MTA didn't go back to MCI for the big order was because MCI literally f**ked up....I could get into the nitty gritty, but to make it short, the rear tag axles falls out the bus.

 

When you sit at the far back of the bus and you hear a really loud clanging, that's what you hear.

Edited January 13, 2015 by Cait Sith

[Orion VII 4 Life]

I wouldn't say NJ Transit will order these again, but never say never.

The bus was designed from the ground up with NJT, part of that being the 40 foot turning radius in a 45 foot bus. I don't think Transit was unsatisfied with DesignLine either, they literally only ordered different buses because they had to. Penn Plaza wants that bus just like they want every other bus custom built for them and I don't see the next order going anywhere else..

Edited January 13, 2015 by Orion VII 4 Life

[553 Bridgeton]

I am certain njt is somewhere behind the doors watching this very closely. Lol thank gosh we gona have these hybirds till they die.

[46Dover]

I wouldn't say NJ Transit will order these again, but never say never.

 

The reason the MTA didn't go back to MCI for the big order was because MCI literally f**ked up....I could get into the nitty gritty, but to make it short, the rear tax axles falls out the bus.

 

When you sit at the far back of the bus and you hear a really loud clanging, that's what you hear.

???!!!!! Awwww come on MCI!!!!

[DaTransitMan4608]

I feel like NJT isn't gonna order from EPV only because the ECOCoach gave them so many problems already. The drivers and passengers hated them equally. But like Orion said, NJT basically built this bus.

 

I'm praying they stay with MCI because I can't get used to seeing ECOCoaches in places I'd see an MCI. I'd rather have a bunch of CNG D4500CT-clones.

[553 Bridgeton]

Lol lets face it mci isnt a cheap bus anymore. If this EcoCrap bids low lol guess what.

 

This hybrid order will tell us about the future of mci&njt. Njt specd the hell out if it, its not going to be anything like ther hybrid cths you see out there. The pilot bus is 2months out.

[qjtransitmaster]

Why do NJT routes have, like, a gazillion variations? The MTA isn't that complicated.

a combination of high demand from outlying areas of the said bus routes. The variants help reduce overcrowding on many lines & the inability of the rail network to meet peak demand & infrequent rail service in comparison to the buses that are back to back.

[DaTransitMan4608]

I sure as hell hope MCI starts bidding lower because I know damn well if the Howell folks hated those ECOCoaches, the North Jersey residents (160s) aren't going to be too ecstatic about them.

 

a combination of high demand from outlying areas of the said bus routes. The variants help reduce overcrowding on many lines & the inability of the rail network to meet peak demand & infrequent rail service in comparison to the buses that are back to back.

Infrequent rail service? Have you seen the M&E & NJCL during peak periods? Trains come within 10 minutes of each other. Don't even get me started with the NEC.

[BZGuy]

Cait Sith,

The rattling that you hear from the tag axle is when the bushings start to go bad. The problem is that because the TA tries to be cheap and stretch out the service schedule on the MCIs. You rarely if ever hear the bushings rattling of NJTs MCIs which to be honest, live much rougher lives.

 

As for the route variations, its more to spead out the passenger loads during rush hours. Take the 166, you'll have a 166T to Leonia, 166X to Bergenfield and a 166X to Dumont all leave within a couple minutes of each other, each taking the passengers to their respective parts of the line.

 

Rt.9 is its own animal due to those Park and Rides and the general ridership on Rt.9 itself. The branches (130,132,136) were always 139 trips they just did it to give those folks a quick way to ID what schedule is coming. Keeping the 139 desgination and adding "T,X,Ps" would not have worked as well. You gotta keep in mind that there are variations of the 130 and 132 within those designations.

Edited January 14, 2015 by BZGuy

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Transit doesn't give a f*ck what the customer thinks. EPV has it in the bag...

[BZGuy]

Transit doesn't give a f*ck what the customer thinks. EPV has it in the bag..

 

 

Don't be so quick to think that. Here a big thing that people overlook with the intial CNG order........MCI didn't put in a bid!

 

The way that RFP was spec'd meant that MCI would have had to completely redesign the D series, something that they are not going to do for one customer. EPV won by default.......now we are talking about 1000+ diesel crusiers. MCI will bid as long as NJT doesn't go overboard with the spec's again. With that size of a order the cost per bus comes down.....meaning MCI can get very competitive with the bid.

 

And last but not least, you guys wanna know why MCI isn't cheap (at least in NJT's eyes)? The spec's they write........no other property in America is change happy as NJT. Even why the order is being built spec changes keep coming in. Don't believe me.....look at the NABIs and how many changes were made during the course of that order. NJT has been known to be difficult to work with in the industry, so thats why they get charged higher. The artic order is gonna be very telling because NF does not want anything to do with NJT, and Nova may not want to be bothered with another spec happy property after the SEPTA fiasco.

[Orion VII 4 Life]

Don't be so quick to think that. Here a big thing that people overlook with the intial CNG order........MCI didn't put in a bid!

 

The way that RFP was spec'd meant that MCI would have had to completely redesign the D series, something that they are not going to do for one customer. EPV won by default.......now we are talking about 1000+ diesel crusiers. MCI will bid as long as NJT doesn't go overboard with the spec's again. With that size of a order the cost per bus comes down.....meaning MCI can get very competitive with the bid.

 

And last but not least, you guys wanna know why MCI isn't cheap (at least in NJT's eyes)? The spec's they write........no other property in America is change happy as NJT. Even why the order is being built spec changes keep coming in. Don't believe me.....look at the NABIs and how many changes were made during the course of that order. NJT has been known to be difficult to work with in the industry, so thats why they get charged higher. The artic order is gonna be very telling because NF does not want anything to do with NJT, and Nova may not want to be bothered with another spec happy property after the SEPTA fiasco.

Exactly it's the specs, that's why MCI couldn't bid on it! Then finally they worked on making a 45 foot CNG that would meet NJT's specs so they could win the next order which they got because DesignLine was bankrupt. NJT will find some BS to spec on the next order so EPV gets it, they want the EcoCoach and they're gonna get it.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Orion VII 4 Life

[BZGuy]

I don't know how much they really want those buses. The only reason Howell is running them as much as they are now is because they have no choice. They are going to be spares once the whole MCI order comes in. At the end of the day the EcoCoach is not a dependable piece of equipment......

[553 Bridgeton]

The dls are gona become what 7531-7541 are and that do a trip and sit then do one trip and thats it, if even that.

 

I am very interested to see when a hybird breaks down in lakewood what Howell will send. We work very well with them when it comes to sharing buses i can certainly see a cng ending up on the 559 especally during rush hour when all the 9000s will be out.

 

7501 came back from cmf looks like it was rehabbed. 7182 was on 10/319, which is surprising. didnt think they were ever going to send it back on the 319.

Edited January 14, 2015 by 553 Bridgeton

[DaTransitMan4608]

I don't know how much they really want those buses. The only reason Howell is running them as much as they are now is because they have no choice. They are going to be spares once the whole MCI order comes in. At the end of the day the EcoCoach is not a dependable piece of equipment......

Which is why I'm praying they don't order them again. 

 

If those things end up being problematic/in the shop a lot and/or take a while to get delivered, that's gonna be bad because the whole fleet could end up being in a shortage.

 

Exactly it's the specs, that's why MCI couldn't bid on it! Then finally they worked on making a 45 foot CNG that would meet NJT's specs so they could win the next order which they got because DesignLine was bankrupt. NJT will find some BS to spec on the next order so EPV gets it, they want the EcoCoach and they're gonna get it.

I hope these new CNGs we get are gonna influence NJT to go with MCI when it comes time to replace the D4000/D4500s. EPV is new to the bus industry (well, not really, they kinda just picked up where DL left off) and this is a time where NJT can't afford to be their guinea pig. 

[Cait Sith]

Cait Sith,

 

The rattling that you hear from the tag axle is when the bushings start to go bad. The problem is that because the TA tries to be cheap and stretch out the service schedule on the MCIs. You rarely if ever hear the bushings rattling of NJTs MCIs which to be honest, live much rougher lives.

 

As for the route variations, its more to spead out the passenger loads during rush hours. Take the 166, you'll have a 166T to Leonia, 166X to Bergenfield and a 166X to Dumont all leave within a couple minutes of each other, each taking the passengers to their respective parts of the line.

 

Rt.9 is its own animal due to those Park and Rides and the general ridership on Rt.9 itself. The branches (130,132,136) were always 139 trips they just did it to give those folks a quick way to ID what schedule is coming. Keeping the 139 desgination and adding "T,X,Ps" would not have worked as well. You gotta keep in mind that there are variations of the 130 and 132 within those designations.

 

I know that sound, but what I'm describing is far louder. It's nothing like a rattle. It's a very loud banging sound. You can hear it from the front of the bus.

 

Meritor did not make the tag axles for the bus, they bailed as soon as MCI was building the buses. The parts used to make the axles was a mix of other parts from a 3rd party with Meritor's parts, causing a lot of problems. Those MCIs were rushed. Their priority was to get those buses out fast, which explained our rather unprecedented delivery, which came much faster than the 2008s.

 

It's also one of the reasons you'll see quite a bunch of 4300s out on the weekends with like 2-3 of the new 2200s.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Cait Sith

[qjtransitmaster]

I sure as hell hope MCI starts bidding lower because I know damn well if the Howell folks hated those ECOCoaches, the North Jersey residents (160s) aren't going to be too ecstatic about them.Infrequent rail service? Have you seen the M&E & NJCL during peak periods? Trains come within 10 minutes of each other. Don't even get me started with the NEC.

I am referring to the PVL & Bergen county/main line in comparison to bus frequencies.

[46Dover]

I know that sound, but what I'm describing is far louder. It's nothing like a rattle. It's a very loud banging sound. You can hear it from the front of the bus.

 

Meritor did not make the tag axles for the bus, they bailed as soon as MCI was building the buses. The parts used to make the axles was a mix of other parts from a 3rd party with Meritor's parts, causing a lot of problems. Those MCIs were rushed. Their priority was to get those buses out fast, which explained our rather unprecedented delivery, which came much faster than the 2008s.

 

It's also one of the reasons you'll see quite a bunch of 4300s out on the weekends with like 2-3 of the new 2200s.

Will those bugs be ironed out?

[Silk City Transit]

As for the route variations, its more to spead out the passenger loads during rush hours. Take the 166, you'll have a 166T to Leonia, 166X to Bergenfield and a 166X to Dumont all leave within a couple minutes of each other, each taking the passengers to their respective parts of the line.

 

 

Yup, and the 166X, by the time it gets to Cross Creek, often times has standing only.  It's not just the variations, it's where they start.  To use the 166 line as an example, since I am familiar with it - The X's (I-95 Express) start from Bergenfield Station (technically Main & Washington, but the Station is the layover point, so if there's anyone there, we'll take them).  There is no need for the 166X to start from Dumont because the 177 Armory Express covers that.  Most 166T's (Turnpike Express) start from Grand & Van Nostrand in Englewood -  since they are less of an express, they start further down the line so that people along Broad Avenue will have buses starting out empty.  For folks at the few stops between Van Nostrand and Cross Creek, they can jump on either/or - sometimes they will pass up a full X so that they can board an empty T (which fills up VERY QUICKLY in Leonia and Palisades Park).  After 9 AM and outside of the peak hours, the T's begin at Bergenfield.