Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[Calvin]

 

With most of the 160s that are Alstom, it's like the Siemens can be coupled to any 5-car Alstom set. 

Edited March 24, 2020 by Calvin

[MeeP15-9112]

7 hours ago, m2fwannabe said:

I learned that for some reason, R-46 5826-29 is back at Jamaica as of March 11.  Was in the barn for a few days, then seen on  service last Thursday (March 19th).

Thank you all for the update @Calvin @m2fwannabe @MysteriousBtrain!

RE: 5826-9 return: Why was it returned? Did it fail inspection at CI and got forced to be repaired by JA?

The best ways to distinguish between a CI 46 and a JA 46 is the presence of nice flat spots on the wheels of the CI units, as well as the (gone or reduced) squeaking sound the axles make.

[MeeP15-9112]

55 minutes ago, Calvin said:

 

With most of the 160s that are Alstom, it's like the Siemens can be coupled to any 5-car Alstom set. 

The Alstoms and Siemens sets were designed from the beginning to be put together, but CI didn’t do so because of numerous problems that arose.

[Fuseguy is Cool]

That Siemens and Alstom mix is dope but ir would be nice to see it on the  line 

[Metajore]

22 minutes ago, Fuseguy is Cool said:

That Siemens and Alstom mix is dope but ir would be nice to see it on the  line 

It sounds like a 2 headed hydra waiting to pop your ears.

[Bill from Maspeth]

16 hours ago, Calvin said:

 

With most of the 160s that are Alstom, it's like the Siemens can be coupled to any 5-car Alstom set. 

Get used to it.  This is Jamaica Yard we are talking about here.  You will see them mixed on a regular basis.  They have their own way of doing things.

Aren't all of you aware that the Cuomo R160's were supposed to be left on the E only?  Look at how long that lasted.

[4P3607]

26 minutes ago, Bill from Maspeth said:

Get used to it.  This is Jamaica Yard we are talking about here.  You will see them mixed on a regular basis.  They have their own way of doing things.

Aren't all of you aware that the Cuomo R160's were supposed to be left on the E only?  Look at how long that lasted.

To even spot a full 10-car "Cuomo" set is considered a rarity. 

I'm quite sure those sets were just a publicity move by Cuomo('s team) (and also a test for more sets to get the retrofit) - they were on the for maybe about a month before they started popping up on the . They then gave up on any intention to keep the sets running in a specific order. At 2 in the morning one will show up on the - surely to handle those large rush hour crowds at that time. 

What is the official word on why Siemens and Alstom (onyx?) sets don't normally run together? - As in what are the actual running differences of a solid train of either vs. them mixed? Perhaps acceleration, running or software differences?

 

[NewFlyer 230]

On 3/24/2020 at 3:13 PM, 4P3607 said:

To even spot a full 10-car "Cuomo" set is considered a rarity. 

I'm quite sure those sets were just a publicity move by Cuomo('s team) (and also a test for more sets to get the retrofit) - they were on the for maybe about a month before they started popping up on the . They then gave up on any intention to keep the sets running in a specific order. At 2 in the morning one will show up on the - surely to handle those large rush hour crowds at that time. 

What is the official word on why Siemens and Alstom (onyx?) sets don't normally run together? - As in what are the actual running differences of a solid train of either vs. them mixed? Perhaps acceleration, running or software differences?

 

I saw one full Cuomo wrapped set earlier this month on the . It caught me by surprise because they are all usually mixed up with non wrapped sets, some even unwrapped. 
 

[MeeP15-9112]

On 3/24/2020 at 3:13 PM, 4P3607 said:

To even spot a full 10-car "Cuomo" set is considered a rarity. 

About 2 months ago I stumbled upon a full Cuomo set in  service. When I got off, turns out the whole train was consecutively numbered!

The train was: (S)9247-9243+9242-9238(N)

[Coney Island Av]

R142 6347 taken oos due to being engulfed with flames during a fire this morning on the  between 86th and 110th. the car was in flames and from looking at the pictures of its condition, it's almost definitely gonna get scrapped unless heavy repairs are done to it. 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Coney Island Av

[Iron Valiant]

1 minute ago, Coney Island Av said:

R142 6347 taken oos due to being engulfed with flames during a fire this morning on the  between 86th and 110th. the car was in flames and from looking at the pictures of its condition, it's almost definitely gonna get scrapped unless heavy repairs are done to it. 

Can you post/tell us where to find the pictures?

[Coney Island Av]

6 minutes ago, Snorunts said:

Can you post/tell us where to find the pictures?

https://imgur.com/a/RjnFUaE?

 

[4 via Mosholu]

16 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

R142 6347 taken oos due to being engulfed with flames during a fire this morning on the  between 86th and 110th. the car was in flames and from looking at the pictures of its condition, it's almost definitely gonna get scrapped unless heavy repairs are done to it. 

Do you know the other pair that was involved in the fire @Coney Island Av?

[Coney Island Av]

1 hour ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

Do you know the other pair that was involved in the fire @Coney Island Av?

i believe the other cars in the five-car set leading: 6346, 6348, 6349, 6350 were also damaged. from what i'm hearing it appears the first few cars (maybe the first 5) were severely damaged but the other back half of the train is still intact (don't know the #s of the other five car set at the back) 

Edited March 27, 2020 by Coney Island Av

[Deucey]

On 3/22/2020 at 11:09 PM, Trainmaster5 said:

When I hear about saving a particular amount of the older fleet my mindset goes in a different direction.  I remember the introduction of the R62/62a fleet in the IRT when I was a M/M or the R32 fleet when I was a teenager.  The new equipment was designed as a replacement for the older equipment. Think about it.  There's a finite amount of storage space in the system.  We don't necessarily store equipment on the structure for a reason.  Trains stored underground is not the best way either,  especially if it can be avoided. Look at the predicted time frame for the R211 and figure the need for service now and in the NEAR future because of the current environment and I am almost certain that the R32s are already dead meat to RTO and Car Equipment. I'm not Nostradamus but I think it's going to be a few years before the runs the amount of service it ran 3 months ago. I hope I'm wrong but in my experience the economy doesn't turn on a dime so I can foresee them running less subway,  bus and railroad service with less equipment for a good while.  Just my opinion.  I could be dead wrong but I know the bottom line thinking of the management.  Who needs spares 😀? Carry on. 

Factor in that even if Easter was a realistic date to “restart the economy”, not everyone will be back at work (or those of us laid off, along with others anxious about things since leveling off the curve =/= eradicating the virus), along with folks likely finding reasons to leave NY because density accelerated infection rates, and it could be 2021-22 before the subway’s back at 6 million riders a day.

[m2fwannabe]

9 hours ago, Coney Island Av said:

10 hours ago, 4 via Mosholu said:

Do you know the other pair that was involved in the fire @Coney Island Av?

i believe the other cars in the five-car set leading: 6346, 6348, 6349, 6350 were also damaged. from what i'm hearing it appears the first few cars (maybe the first 5) were severely damaged but the other back half of the train is still intact (don't know the #s of the other five car set at the back) 

The consist was: 6346/47/48/49/6350-6366/67/68/69/6370 (S).

6347 is not repairable whereas the body frame is buckled in roof and (#1) end wall in the immediate fire area.

Much secondary damage as FDNY fought the conflagration.  Note the station as well, eh?  The station will be down for a bit of time.  Possibly several weeks.

Not much sense to restore 6346,48,49 or 6350 to service without the "totaled" 6347.  Let's hear it for unitized equipment...

Does anybody else recall the time 1391 was burned out by a mad individual?  207 Street was able to put it back together.

Let's see if the media will reveal when they learn what the full story was aside from the heroism of the deceased (tragically victimized) T/O.

[MeeP15-9112]

16 minutes ago, m2fwannabe said:

Does anybody else recall the time 1391 was burned out by a mad individual?  207 Street was able to put it back together.

1391 was one hell of an unlucky car. According to nycsubway.org, this same car got into another accident 4 years later on the yard lead to 239th Yard.

The Canarsie overshoot set (8277-80) was fixed up but it took 11 years.

The R46s that derailed in QBL (5742-45) were fixed in 2 years.

The 46s that derailed north of 125 (6150-3) however, were half written off, with 6152-3 buddying up with AB pair 6206-7 to make a four car train. It probably wasn’t worth it to repair said cars, as the 46s were at the time 41 years old.

If 207 can fix 1391, the Canarsie set, and the QBL derailment set, IMO they could fix 6346-50, at the cost of the set being OOS for a long time (I estimate 3-4 years).

Condolences to the motorman’s family for his death on the job. 

[Theli11]

11 minutes ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

If 207 can fix 1391, the Canarsie set, and the QBL derailment set, IMO they could fix 6346-50, at the cost of the set being OOS for a long time (I estimate 3-4 years).

 

I wonder if you've actually seen the pictures, but the cars look horribly burned, while those cars were derailed, this car was scorched burned, and metal probably melted. That's a different subject than those other incidents you named.

[m2fwannabe]

17 minutes ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

50 minutes ago, m2fwannabe said:

Does anybody else recall the time 1391 was burned out by a mad individual?  207 Street was able to put it back together.

1391 was one hell of an unlucky car. According to nycsubway.org, this same car got into another accident 4 years later on the yard lead to 239th Yard.

The Canarsie overshoot set (8277-80) was fixed up but it took 11 years.

The R46s that derailed in QBL (5742-45) were fixed in 2 years.

The 46s that derailed north of 125 (6150-3) however, were half written off, with 6152-3 buddying up with AB pair 6206-7 to make a four car train. It probably wasn’t worth it to repair said cars, as the 46s were at the time 41 years old.

If 207 can fix 1391, the Canarsie set, and the QBL derailment set, IMO they could fix 6346-50, at the cost of the set being OOS for a long time (I estimate 3-4 years).

Condolences to the motorman’s family for his death on the job.

Well if you reread the original posting it already says 6347 is already NOT repairable aka "Toast"  aka "totaled "  The structural framing is buckled at the #1 end wall and the roof structure also buckled.  As a B car the rest of the body is built around that which will completely compromise that car's structural integrity.  In short there is nothing to rebuild, unless you thinking about building a whole new body.

That even 207 wouldn't be able to "fix."

Prove me wrong?

[Deucey]

3 minutes ago, Theli11 said:

I wonder if you've actually seen the pictures, but the cars look horribly burned, while those cars were derailed, this car was scorched burned, and metal probably melted. That's a different subject than those other incidents you named.

Depends on how much it’d cost to replace the burned components, and if the frame was melted.

Since the panels are scorched, if they can’t be buffed they could be replaced. The electrics are definitely melted/fused, but new wires can be run.

Just comes down to cost vs depreciation. With cars, if the resale is higher than the repair cost or parting it out, So long as the frame or cage isn’t damaged insurers repair it. I imagine  examiners are gonna do a similar calculation before they decide (which if past car damage is a guide, is a years-long process).

[Coney Island Av]

58 minutes ago, m2fwannabe said:

The consist was: 6346/47/48/49/6350-6366/67/68/69/6370 (S).

6347 is not repairable whereas the body frame is buckled in roof and (#1) end wall in the immediate fire area.

Much secondary damage as FDNY fought the conflagration.  Note the station as well, eh?  The station will be down for a bit of time.  Possibly several weeks.

Not much sense to restore 6346,48,49 or 6350 to service without the "totaled" 6347.  Let's hear it for unitized equipment...

Does anybody else recall the time 1391 was burned out by a mad individual?  207 Street was able to put it back together.

Let's see if the media will reveal when they learn what the full story was aside from the heroism of the deceased (tragically victimized) T/O.

back in 1991 after the union square derailment on the . 1431-34, and 1438 were all unitized and retained whilst 1435-37 and 1439-40 were scrapped. the only reason why they were able to unitize those cars was because the R62s were in single units at the time. with the R142s however, its a completely different story. they are NTTs and can't really be grouped into a four car set if or when 6347 gets written off. 

another thing to note is the M7 that was involved in a collision at valhalla a few years ago with a car. the M7 in question (4333) did not return to service and i believe it was written off due to extensive fire damage. that is what they will most likely do to 6347, while the other cars (6346, 48, 49, 50) are stored and stripped for parts. if they cannot repair that M7 (which received less fire damage compared to this then i doubt 6347 will get repaired. it's better to strip that set for parts then spending a huge cost to rebuild it. 

6366-70 will probably return to service because those cars were unharmed (albeit probably with minor smoke damage). 

and sad to see the operator go (even tho i have already mentioned it plenty of times already). he really did save plenty of lives...

Edited March 28, 2020 by Coney Island Av

[MJHmarc]

25 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

back in 1991 after the union square derailment on the . 1431-34, and 1438 were all unitized and retained whilst 1435-37 and 1439-40 were scrapped. the only reason why they were able to unitize those cars was because the R62s were in single units at the time. with the R142s however, its a completely different story. they are NTTs and can't really be grouped into a four car set if or when 6347 gets written off. 

another thing to note is the M7 that was involved in a collision at valhalla a few years ago with a car. the M7 in question (4333) did not return to service and i believe it was written off due to extensive fire damage. that is what they will most likely do to 6347, while the other cars (6346, 48, 49, 50) are stored and stripped for parts. if they cannot repair that M7 (which received less fire damage compared to this then i doubt 6347 will get repaired. it's better to strip that set for parts then spending a huge cost to rebuild it. 

6366-70 will probably return to service because those cars were unharmed (albeit probably with minor smoke damage). 

and sad to see the operator go (even tho i have already mentioned it plenty of times already). he really did save plenty of lives...

6366-70 could be saved for the Times Square   

[Collin]

The M7's are all married pairs, so what happened to the other car in the pair?  6347 is of course done.  You can see the interior was completely melted away.  The stainless steel also started to melt and buckle.  Impossible to repair, and probably no salvageable parts either.  Assuming the other cars are not damaged beyond repair, they could be pieced into another set should any other cars be written off in the future.  If they are damaged beyond repair, then they would probably be parted out and eventually scrapped.  There's no reason to be in a rush to scrap anything.

[MeeP15-9112]

1 hour ago, MJHmarc said:

6366-70 could be saved for the Times Square   

Do you mean 6346-6350? 6366-70 was the other half of the train, and are not damaged to the extent of 6347.

That sounds very plausible and could free up some Livonia 62As and send them over to Westchester for  .

[darkstar8983]

11 hours ago, MeeP15-9112 said:

Do you mean 6346-6350? 6366-70 was the other half of the train, and are not damaged to the extent of 6347.

That sounds very plausible and could free up some Livonia 62As and send them over to Westchester for  .

Or maybe 6341-6345 with 6349 inserted just to keep the numbering consistent to make one of the six car  trains. Then repair any minor damage from 6366-6370 (if any) and leave it on the main line

Edited March 28, 2020 by darkstar8983