Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[Calvin]

To add on, the R32s doesn't support social distancing as there can be passengers surrounding the cabs hence the  going to sleep (suspended).

-Shortage of crews meaning loss so, the is filling in. However, Alpha's trip one-way is over 2 hours. Hopefully, things would be better soon.  

Edited April 8, 2020 by Calvin

[MysteriousBtrain]

6 minutes ago, Calvin said:

To add on, the R32s doesn't support support distancing as there can be passengers surrounding the cabs hence the  going to sleep (suspended). Hopefully, things would be better soon. 

This ^

[trainfan22]

I'll always associate R32s with the line, how fitting the final run was on the line. IF that was the final run, these R32s are like roaches and always find a way to survive somehow😠

 

At this point I won't believe they are retired until we see them being trucked off for scrap lol

[Iron Valiant]

57 minutes ago, trainfan22 said:

I'll always associate R32s with the line, how fitting the final run was on the line. IF that was the final run, these R32s are like roaches and always find a way to survive somehow😠

 

At this point I won't believe they are retired until we see them being trucked off for scrap lol

Same here. It sounds too good to be true.... 🤔

[MHV9218]

Some day, the MTA is going to have to restore full service, and the R211s are unlikely to have arrived by that point. I fully believe that all the 32s are on the Hold list right now, but I will be very, very suspicious of any word that they have been permanently retired from service before fleet demands eventually increase in the coming months. Scrapping is on indefinite hold during this mess anyway, so it's not like they're going anywhere. 

[R68OnBroadway]

3 hours ago, Dj Hammers said:

All R32s now either in exclusive work service or held OOS. All cars are on the hold sheet and none are available for passenger service.

Last regular revenue run was the 843 EUC/168 on March 26.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k311zffaZQ4

Do you know the car numbers for the last train in service?

Edited April 8, 2020 by R68OnBroadway

[Dj Hammers]

2 hours ago, MysteriousBtrain said:

That does not mean they are all retired. Big difference between OOS and retired.

The R32s are not needed because of the not running at this time.

This is a very important point. The cars are not retired per se, just held OOS. I've edited the title and description to make that distinction more clear.

It is being said that the cars may return to service once the COVID-19 pandemic is over.

 

[MHV9218]

24 minutes ago, Dj Hammers said:

This is a very important point. The cars are not retired per se, just held OOS. I've edited the title and description to make that distinction more clear.

It is being said that the cars may return to service once the COVID-19 pandemic is over.

Okay, I really appreciate your updates a lot here. I thought you wrote on subchat they were retired, but this seems more like it. Everybody took that and ran with it. This is the point I've been trying to stress with everybody, especially with everyone so antsy and jumpy about the prospect of retirement. Nothing definitive is happening until service and equipment needs are re-established, whenever that may be, and nothing is getting scrapped at the current moment. For the record, even the officially-retired R42s are sitting in the yard without being stripped yet––and that's a mothballed fleet!

Edited April 8, 2020 by MHV9218

[Dj Hammers]

1 minute ago, MHV9218 said:

Okay, I really appreciate your updates a lot here. I thought you wrote on subchat they were retired, but this seems more like it. Everybody took that and ran with it. This is the point I've been trying to stress with everybody, especially with everyone so antsy and jumpy about the prospect of retirement. Nothing definitive is happening until service and equipment needs are re-established, whenever that may be, and nothing is getting scrapped at the current moment. For the record, even the officially-retired R42s are sitting in the yard without being stripped yet––and that's a mothballed fleet!

Yep, initially it was appearing that the cars were retired, even to those inside the agency. More info came out this afternoon with regards to their status.

I've updated everything with the more recent and accurate information as of this afternoon. The cars remain on the active roster and may return to service once the COVID-19 pandemic has concluded.

 

With respect to the R42s, those cars may actually be formally retired at this point, as they have been transferred out of the formal responsibility of the car shops for maintenance. Of course, formally retired cars can return to service if needs permit. This has certainly occurred in the past.

[R32 3838]

2 hours ago, Jchambers2120 said:

It’s not that they’re not necessarily needed the union pushed to get these trains off the road to prevent conductors from having to change cabs amidst this pandemic. 

 

That's why they're not running, there's plenty of R46's as spares since the is suspended plus if they need more cars, they can borrow from coney island since the not running.

Edited April 8, 2020 by R32 3838

[Coney Island Av]

honestly i knew that the R32s were only oos for now due to the pandemic. all of the points everyone mentioned here i totally agree with and/or understand. another reason why the R32s have no choice but to stay on property is because the R211s have a likely chance of being delayed due to the virus (since kawasaki shut down if i am not mistaken). 

as for the R42s, i believe it is best to keep them where they are now- mothballed/in storage. by placing them in storage, they can easily be used in the event of an emergency or extra service requirements. the  won't need them for now unless the R179s have major issues again. 

[R10 2952]

54 minutes ago, Coney Island Av said:

honestly i knew that the R32s were only oos for now due to the pandemic. all of the points everyone mentioned here i totally agree with and/or understand. another reason why the R32s have no choice but to stay on property is because the R211s have a likely chance of being delayed due to the virus (since kawasaki shut down if i am not mistaken). 

as for the R42s, i believe it is best to keep them where they are now- mothballed/in storage. by placing them in storage, they can easily be used in the event of an emergency or extra service requirements. the  won't need them for now unless the R179s have major issues again. 

Even without what's going on currently, a lot of people were saying Cuomo was pushing for the R32s to be retired by April.  Knowing his penchant for micromanagement and how he's basically reduced the MTA into a personal fiefdom run by his sycophantic proxies, he might push to prevent the cars from returning to service for all we know.

As to the R42s, even if the they did come back (which would probably be an even bigger stretch at this point), I get the impression it would just make more sense to keep them on the as put-ins (I didn't mention the on account of the infamous platform spacing issues when they ran as 8 cars on that line eleven or twelve years ago).  The 8-car R179s could all be sent out to the /.  It would be less of a hassle than sending the R42s back out there, probably.

[Fuseguy is Cool]

We know that the R32s were supposedly set to retire in spring 2020. However, many conductors and operators got infected at ENY Yard with the virus so therefore  and  service was dramatically reduced, thereby reducing the R32 runs. Its unlikely that the MTA will retire one of the best train cars during a pandemic with essential service in effect. 

[Jova42R]

3 hours ago, Fuseguy is Cool said:

We know that the R32s were supposedly set to retire in spring 2020. However, many conductors and operators got infected at ENY Yard with the virus so therefore  and  service was dramatically reduced, thereby reducing the R32 runs. Its unlikely that the MTA will retire one of the best train cars during a pandemic with essential service in effect. 

I doubt it'll be long after COVID that the R32s sadly die.

[Calvin]

Putting these bit of info reflected from the past up to now: 

 

Past temporary swap:  and : R32s in exchange of 11 R160As. Later on, R179 3150-3157 started the return of the 160s back to ENY. 

Before: The  with R160s: 9 R32s and 9 160As and the  was 4 R42s, 11 R32s and then 5 R143s and 160s total. 

After: R179 ->  is the same as 50/50.   is a mixture of R143/160A/179. 

 

 

Swap 1, CBTC conversion on the Flushing line (  and ) 

Before: the  has R142As from 7211-7590 and 7591-7670 and  has R62As from 1651-25, 1831-1840, single units: 1901-8, 1910-1926, 1934, 1938-1939, 1942-1949, 1954, 1957-1960, 1961-2155 were the converted 5-car sets on the 2013 year. Then on after 5 years later, March 30th 2018 on a Friday was the last day that the R62A ran on the  . 1891-1895 and 2236-40 ran as extra 5-cars for the  from the  back then. 

 - Last consists on the  11-car train :

 * 2081-2085: 1938-1959-1905-1957-1902-1960

* 2091-2095:1904-1958-1924-1910-1903-1954

* 2071-2075:-1923-1926-1907-1908-1942-1934

 - Conversion units are 7211-7590 while 7591-7670 were put on the  afterwards. Exchange for the leftover R142As were from the R62As on the  : 2221-5, 2346-50 and 2456-2465. 

7601-7610 was the last train out of Westchester. 7596-7610 were the last transferred units to Jerome Yard after 2071-5, 2081-5 and 2091-5 made its way to Westchester Yard. 1901-5 and 1923 were the last to arrive at Westchester.  *Can still be seen during a specific weekend G.O: R142A

-62A exchange between Livonia Yard and Westchester: -From Corona Yard, 1921-2 and 1925 with 1939,  Livonia to Westchester: 1931-27-52 and 1940. 

*After the swap: at least 1906 (was last seen as in passenger service around 2016), 1907 1908 and 1910 remained at Corona Yard as they were extra units to make 11-car trains and presently extra cars for refuse (or backup car for the 42nd St Shuttle). 

 

Swap 2, Queens Blvd line CBTC (   ---  )

 - The and  has mainly R160s from 9223-9942 (as Second Av was opened to the public). Then later on, select units were chosen for refurbishment which included removed seats on the end of each car. The 46s that's at Jamaica were 5482-5845. 5846-5877 were ex. Pitkin units to make service in total of 49 trains with a 4-car to spare for and  service. Before, 5678-5681 and 5582-5 were the first 46 in-service on the  for a long time while 9248-9257 were exchanged back to Jamaica Yard. Then end of the swap reflects 118 R160 10 car trains at Jamaica Yard with C.I about 49 trainsets of R46 and 10-11 10-car R160B siemens sets leftover. 

 

[ Cuomo's R160 swap:

C.I sent  8773-8777, 8838-8842, 9108-9112, 9123-9142, 9153-9162, 9168-9172, 9178-9182, 9188-9192, 9203-9207, 9218-9222

Jamaica Yard traded 9233-7, 9248-72, 9443-9482 ]

 

Assignments reflected on 2019 to 2020 (now): 

 - 15 R46s, 31 R160s.  ---->  : 15 + 2 R46s, 4 R160B, *R68/A PM rush

:  R160A/B: 21             ---->  : 46 R160A/B

 

 - 26 R46s, 5 R160s. ----->  amount of R46s.

Astoria  : Before -> 4 R68/A, 29 R160s. Now: 6-7 R68/A, 22-23 R46s, 4 R160B (currently). 

Also, the  is shared as there are 46/68 on the line. 

*Three select R46 trains still run on the  as the swap is on pause. 

 

Hopefully, there will be good in this year. But stay positive, safe and healthy.

Edited April 9, 2020 by Calvin
Overall details

[Collin]

Good job tracking the swaps.  Looks like the  is short a few trains until the remaining R46's are sent over from Jamaica.

[RailBus63]

Just my 2 cents, but I do not expect to see any R32 return to regular service.  First, since it will be 12 to 18 months before we have a coronavirus vaccine available, I don't believe it would be fair to train crews to bring back a car class that puts C/R's in direct contact with passengers multiple times per trip.  Second, the MTA is also facing a severe fiscal crisis from the pandemic, so I doubt they will have the funding to bring back 100 percent of the service that was cut, nor do I expect ridership to return to February 2020 levels for a long time.  Hopefully we will get a formal R32 farewell run at some point in the future.

Again, just my 2 cents. 

[MHV9218]

2 hours ago, RailBus63 said:

Just my 2 cents, but I do not expect to see any R32 return to regular service.  First, since it will be 12 to 18 months before we have a coronavirus vaccine available, I don't believe it would be fair to train crews to bring back a car class that puts C/R's in direct contact with passengers multiple times per trip.  Second, the MTA is also facing a severe fiscal crisis from the pandemic, so I doubt they will have the funding to bring back 100 percent of the service that was cut, nor do I expect ridership to return to February 2020 levels for a long time.  Hopefully we will get a formal R32 farewell run at some point in the future.

Again, just my 2 cents. 

The question is also how much the R211 replacement timetable is slowed down. If the R211s arrive before we've returned to full service (or at least a level of service that requires the 32s), then you're right, it's a harder argument. If the R211s are as slowed down as everything else, the MTA may face a service reality that requires the 32s. It's very possible that the regular use of the 32s is gone forever, but I think it's quite possible they return on a put-in, additional service basis later on. 

[Lawrence St]

22 hours ago, RailBus63 said:

Just my 2 cents, but I do not expect to see any R32 return to regular service.  First, since it will be 12 to 18 months before we have a coronavirus vaccine available, I don't believe it would be fair to train crews to bring back a car class that puts C/R's in direct contact with passengers multiple times per trip.  Second, the MTA is also facing a severe fiscal crisis from the pandemic, so I doubt they will have the funding to bring back 100 percent of the service that was cut, nor do I expect ridership to return to February 2020 levels for a long time.  Hopefully we will get a formal R32 farewell run at some point in the future.

Again, just my 2 cents. 

 

20 hours ago, MHV9218 said:

The question is also how much the R211 replacement timetable is slowed down. If the R211s arrive before we've returned to full service (or at least a level of service that requires the 32s), then you're right, it's a harder argument. If the R211s are as slowed down as everything else, the MTA may face a service reality that requires the 32s. It's very possible that the regular use of the 32s is gone forever, but I think it's quite possible they return on a put-in, additional service basis later on. 

With the way how everything is now, I doubt the R211's will arrive on time, or start service on time either. Theres a very slim chance that the R32's wont return to service after this is over, as we need the cars if we are going to come back to a somewhat normal level of ridership and service frequency in the upcoming months.

[Around the Horn]

1 hour ago, Lawrence St said:

Theres a very slim chance that the R32's wont return to service after this is over, as we need the cars if we are going to come back to a somewhat normal level of ridership and service frequency in the upcoming months.

They were going to retire the cars anyway if COVID-19 wasn't a thing. The R32s not coming back at all is a legitimate possibility.

[R32 3838]

12 minutes ago, Around the Horn said:

They were going to retire the cars anyway if COVID-19 wasn't a thing. The R32s not coming back at all is a legitimate possibility.

with all the constant R179 issues and very low R46 spare factor, They were still running R32's up until the 3rd week of march. It all depends on how many trains they need once this is over. the current formula before the virus started wasn't working at all and those R46's at CI still operate like shit. that's why they still had R32's on the road, they could have been all OOS in the beginning of march but the R179's kept having door indication issues.

 

if ridership levels go back to normal, they will still need the cars. It's very obvious that lowering the R46's spare factor isn't working and their MDBF is dropping. CI might need more R46's on top of all the ones from Jamaica.

 

and if they still went forward with retiring the R32's on top of whats going on with the R179's, the would have longer wait times due to the lack of available trains due to very low spare factor

Edited April 12, 2020 by R32 3838

[Lawrence St]

9 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

with all the constant R179 issues and very low R46 spare factor, They were still running R32's up until the 3rd week of march. It all depends on how many trains they need once this is over. the current formula before the virus started wasn't working at all and those R46's at CI still operate like shit. that's why they still had R32's on the road, they could have been all OOS in the beginning of march but the R179's kept having door indication issues.

 

if ridership levels go back to normal, they will still need the cars. It's very obvious that lowering the R46's spare factor isn't working and their MDBF is dropping. CI might need more R46's on top of all the ones from Jamaica.

 

and if they still went forward with retiring the R32's on top of whats going on with the R179's, the would have longer wait times due to the lack of available trains due to very low spare factor

In my opinion, using R46's on the is a horrible idea. Having a reduced spare factor is not worth it while the arrival of the R211's are coming soon. Keep the R32's going before we find ourselves in another car shortage.

[R32 3838]

8 minutes ago, Lawrence St said:

In my opinion, using R46's on the is a horrible idea. Having a reduced spare factor is not worth it while the arrival of the R211's are coming soon. Keep the R32's going before we find ourselves in another car shortage.

I think it was a big mistake taking the R32's off the lines, Little to no complaints about them being on there. IMO the   should have gotten all of the 8 car R179's until the R211 base order is completed. most of the complaining came from the line and ta knew this and threw all the R32's back at 207th instead of keeping them split with the ones on the retiring with about 4 sets for the only.

 

the could have sent some way and kept atleast 64 cars or more and the R42's would have retired much earlier. the uses the R160's more than the R179's since the R160's are more reliable.

Edited April 12, 2020 by R32 3838

[trainfan22]

In the middle of March before things got crazy they were barely using the R32s. If they do come back I hope they don't run everyday and run at random times so railfans have a hard time finding them 

[Lawrence St]

29 minutes ago, R32 3838 said:

I think it was a big mistake taking the R32's off the lines, Little to no complaints about them being on there. IMO the   should have gotten all of the 8 car R179's until the R211 base order is completed. most of the complaining came from the line and ta knew this and threw all the R32's back at 207th instead of keeping them split with the ones on the retiring with about 4 sets for the only.

 

the could have sent some way and kept atleast 64 cars or more and the R42's would have retired much earlier. the uses the R160's more than the R179's since the R160's are more reliable.

It was a big mistake retiring the R42's this early as well in my opinion. If MTA were smart they would've left the R42's as resevre units.