Fleet Swap Discussion Thread

[realizm]

I honestly don't care, but I still think they should do it 50/50 or send the whole fleet to CI for the B, the heatwave took a toll on all subway cars, most were blowing hot air, just the R32s fall victim since they're the oldest, I find it funny how PATCO cars are just about the same age as the R32s and their A/Cs work very good, in 2009 the R32s HVAC units weren't a problem, even from 1988-2008 when all the R32s were on the never a HVAC issue, its management that's screwing up and they need to fix that issue

Very true, mismanagement, agency level. Which leads to erroneous decisions such as the premature scrapping done in the first place with the the R32's after a period of deferred maintenance as you touched upon, leading to the current shortage of cars we can well see on the among many other things, such as delays on the LIRR East Access Project, another issue. I even have to wonder about the delays in the deliveries of the R188's, is it really because of the damage done to the IND Rockaways test tracks due to the storm, when we have test trackage elsewhere such as the IRT Dyre Ave or the BMT Sea Beach?

 

That was made clear with the recent audit by city officials and financial firms that revealed that the MTA under Joe Lhota, was hiding the fact that at least 90 million dollars sit uninvested in operational costs last year alone, while the agency was pushing for the payroll tax, creating a multi billion dollar mess with years of accumulated waste of funds resulting from the financial management mistakes. Taxpayers, city workers and even schools suffer as the result. I would presume as well the proper working order of the fleets that keep the system running, as well as infrastructure maintenance.

 

Enough of my transit politiking, I'm guilty as charged. Getting back on topic, the R46 prescence on the is becoming more pronounced, as captured on camera on the IND Fulton St line, so let me bump this:

 

 

 

Caught it while heading to the city...

 

Edited July 21, 2013 by realizm

[RollOver]

Looks like riders' wish came true. In addition, us rail buffs get to have more nostalgia and RFW on the now.

[R32 3838]

Yeah but by September everything will go back to normal, its not about the railfans and RFW, its about making service

[Dan05979]

On the inside, the sign could be set in the middle, but might be off centered on the outside.....

Yes I know, I try to fix them as I get on trains with sloppy signs.

[ttcsubwayfan]

Yeah but by September everything will go back to normal, its not about the railfans and RFW, its about making service

I thought at least one set was meant to stay on the J past September?

[R62AR33]

I as well got the word the R32s are likely staying on the PERMANENTLY along with the R42s so that the R179s can retire them both on the same line .  If your a railfanner why are you all complaining , people have been complaining how they have wanted the and to be back to R42s to have the rfw now you have both R32s and R42s , please stop with the complaining . Besides why should the and riders be complaining they still pay 2.50 like everyone else why should they get special treatment if anything the riders deserve the R160s since they never get any new equipment at least they now have something for now will it be weird riding the of course since we are all used to it being just R32s. We all pay the same fare and we all will have to still take the trains no matter what is on what line because we must get from point A till Point B. Just like the riders losing their R142As and now being re downgraded to just R62As with a few R142As left , some of the riders are complaining but when you ride the R62As on the they are jampacked wich proves my point. on people still riding the trains.

 

Carry on with the topic.

Edited July 21, 2013 by R62AR33

[Dan05979]

I as well got the word the R32s are likely staying on the PERMANENTLY along with the R42s so that the R179s can retire them both on the same line .  If your a railfanner why are you all complaining , people have been complaining how they have wanted the and to be back to R42s to have the rfw now you have both R32s and R42s , please stop with the complaining . Besides why should the and riders be complaining they still pay 2.50 like everyone else why should they get special treatment if anything the riders deserve the R160s since they never get any new equipment at least they now have something for now will it be weird riding the of course since we are all used to it being just R32s. We all pay the same fare and we all will have to still take the trains no matter what is on what line because we must get from point A till Point B. Just like the riders losing their R142As and now being re downgraded to just R62As with a few R142As left , some of the riders are complaining but when you ride the R62As on the they are jampacked wich proves my point. on people still riding the trains.

 

Carry on with the topic.

It all boils down to this....there metal rectangles with wheels underneath them. Carry on.

[RollOver]

I as well got the word the R32s are likely staying on the PERMANENTLY along with the R42s so that the R179s can retire them both on the same line .  If your a railfanner why are you all complaining , people have been complaining how they have wanted the and to be back to R42s to have the rfw now you have both R32s and R42s , please stop with the complaining . Besides why should the and riders be complaining they still pay 2.50 like everyone else why should they get special treatment if anything the riders deserve the R160s since they never get any new equipment at least they now have something for now will it be weird riding the of course since we are all used to it being just R32s. We all pay the same fare and we all will have to still take the trains no matter what is on what line because we must get from point A till Point B. Just like the riders losing their R142As and now being re downgraded to just R62As with a few R142As left , some of the riders are complaining but when you ride the R62As on the they are jampacked wich proves my point. on people still riding the trains.

 

Carry on with the topic.

 

While the train's 168th Street–Euclid Avenue local counterpart/version didn't get anything new for years and that IMO it is nice to have a more-often RFW on the , I actually do prefer those R32s back on my line than those "new" R160 cars, at least during the non-summer periods. That's all.

 

@ R32 3838

 

Agreed.

Edited July 21, 2013 by RollOverMyHead

[R32 3838]

The (J)/(Z) part is just talk, its not confirmed yet, even if all the R32s were to come to ENY, they would have to be on the as well.

 

I thought at least one set was meant to stay on the J past September?

Yea 1 set will stay for 1 year

[Grand Concourse]

Or what if they were to put all the R32s on the J/Z, but take the R42s to use for say the B or whatever line? Wouldn't that be enough to cover just the J/Z without needing to put a few trains on the M?

That or they could put the R42s on the M and have a replacement sign to show Metropolitan av as the south terminal and an orange M instead of the brown M.

[realizm]

Or what if they were to put all the R32s on the J/Z, but take the R42s to use for say the B or whatever line? Wouldn't that be enough to cover just the J/Z without needing to put a few trains on the M?

That or they could put the R42s on the M and have a replacement sign to show Metropolitan av as the south terminal and an orange M instead of the brown M.

 

Then we have to discuss why the MTA dedicated 93 to 96 (mind's a bit foggy) 4 car sets of NTT's to the BMT Eastern division specifically in the original order. 

[VIP]

Ironic how the MTA keeps those unreliable, nasty & rusty looking R42s around. Those 50 cars need to be retired ASAP. The hell is the TA is spending so much money maintaining and servicing them?

[ThingThatShouldNotBe]

i love r32s and r42s even tho theyre rusty and old.

[LTA1992]

Ironic how the MTA keeps those unreliable, nasty & rusty looking R42s around. Those 50 cars need to be retired ASAP. The hell is the TA is spending so much money maintaining and servicing them?

You DO realize that that would create a shortage of cars right?

[DJ MC]

Ironic how the MTA keeps those unreliable, nasty & rusty looking R42s around. Those 50 cars need to be retired ASAP. The hell is the TA is spending so much money maintaining and servicing them?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R44_(New_York_City_Subway_car)#Retirement_and_Replacement

[realizm]

Ironic how the MTA keeps those unreliable, nasty & rusty looking R42s around. Those 50 cars need to be retired ASAP. The hell is the TA is spending so much money maintaining and servicing them?

 

Well to properly answer the question it was because (as discussed already several pages back) that it was an error on the part of the MTA by the premature scrapping of the R32 cars, due to the sudden discovery that the R44's were shot and even in worse condition as the then new R160's were being put in revenue service. This major oversight in the discovery of rapidly deteriorating structural problems on the R44's created a shortage of cars as it is now. Which was why the scrapping of the R42's came to a sudden screeching halt. Oops.

 

 

*Edit: DJ MC beat me to it. Yeah what the wiki article states.

Edited July 22, 2013 by realizm

[RollOver]

Ironic how the MTA keeps those unreliable, nasty & rusty looking R42s around. Those 50 cars need to be retired ASAP. The hell is the TA is spending so much money maintaining and servicing them?

 

Look, the didn't have enough money for more R160s to cover the entire fleet. Plus, the mainline R44s needing premature retirement as well. That is the only reason why those 222/600 R32s and 50/400 R42s are still here. Otherwise, what trains will make and/or service had the leftover R32s and R42s retire right along with the NYCS R44s?

[R32 3838]

They can still get rid of the R42s BUT they can't since everything is all screwed up

[mtattrain]

They can still get rid of the R42s BUT they can't since everything is all screwed up

 

Yea mun those R44s screwed up the intended replacement pattern.

[AndrewJC]

I can almost guarantee that ENY wont get anymore R32's than it already has and they wont pop up on the sorry guys. 1. R32's are terrible at OPTO 2. QBL will need new C/R boards 3. No the C/R wont be in the 4-4 position for half its route then back to the 5-3 position. 4. The rollsigns will be a major issue for obvious reasons.

 

And most important of all: the M is mostly underground, largely defeating the purpose.

 

Per some employees on SubChat they're making weekend requirements by pressing all laid up R46's into service, not sure how Monday will be done.

 

Its obvious this is an emergency order issued singlehandedly by someone high up.

 

Emergency is the operative word. It's been a very hot week, and it should be no surprise that the R32's have been having trouble with it. Since train requirements are lower on weekends than on weekdays, there are spare R46's sitting around, so why not press them into C service?

 

Don't be surprised if they all go away tomorrow. Or if they do last past tomorrow, don't expect them to last very long. RTO doesn't like to run a mix of 600 foot and 480 foot trains on the same line.

 

I honestly don't care, but I still think they should do it 50/50 or send the whole fleet to CI for the B, the heatwave took a toll on all subway cars, most were blowing hot air, just the R32s fall victim since they're the oldest, I find it funny how PATCO cars are just about the same age as the R32s and their A/Cs work very good, in 2009 the R32s HVAC units weren't a problem, even from 1988-2008 when all the R32s were on the never a HVAC issue, its management that's screwing up and they need to fix that issue

 

I get the sense that you do care quite a bit.

 

The problems have nothing to do with the age of the car itself - they stem from the design of the air conditioning system and the intended lifespan (which was up years ago). Also, don't forget that PATCO is mostly outdoors, and (as we've seen on the J) the R32's can generally cope if they're mostly outdoors.

 

The R32's had major air conditioning problems in their last summers on the E.

 

Very true, mismanagement, agency level. Which leads to erroneous decisions such as the premature scrapping done in the first place with the the R32's after a period of deferred maintenance as you touched upon, leading to the current shortage of cars we can well see on the among many other things, such as delays on the LIRR East Access Project, another issue. I even have to wonder about the delays in the deliveries of the R188's, is it really because of the damage done to the IND Rockaways test tracks due to the storm, when we have test trackage elsewhere such as the IRT Dyre Ave or the BMT Sea Beach?

 

What erroneous decisions or premature scrapping? The primary stated purpose of the R160 order was to replace all of the older 60 foot cars. That only changed in 2010 (or was it late 2009?), when the R44's were found to be structurally unsound, and at that time the plan was changed. The R32's that had already been reefed by then couldn't be brought back - nor did they need to be brought back, since (thanks to the 2010) service cuts there is no car shortage at all.

 

The purpose of the testing is to ensure that the performance of the R188's meets contractual requirements. Exact speeds, stopping distances, etc. have to be measured, for trains operating on tangent, level track. The Rockaway test track is tangent, level track, but the Dyre and Sea Beach are not, making the testing process a lot more complex.

 

That was made clear with the recent audit by city officials and financial firms that revealed that the MTA under Joe Lhota, was hiding the fact that at least 90 million dollars sit uninvested in operational costs last year alone, while the agency was pushing for the payroll tax, creating a multi billion dollar mess with years of accumulated waste of funds resulting from the financial management mistakes. Taxpayers, city workers and even schools suffer as the result. I would presume as well the proper working order of the fleets that keep the system running, as well as infrastructure maintenance.

 

 

You mean this? Be careful about who you get your spin from.

[VIP]

You DO realize that that would create a shortage of cars right?

yea because 50 cars would make a huge difference when the line only uses 144 cars out of 222 there are more than enough cars to retire off those R42's and had the not been extended to forest hills in 2010, the would of been 100% R160 until summer 2012

[R62AR33]

Look, the didn't have enough money for more R160s to cover the entire fleet. Plus, the mainline R44s needing premature retirement as well. That is the only reason why those 222/600 R32s and 50/400 R42s are still here. Otherwise, what trains will make and/or service had the leftover R32s and R42s retire right along with the NYCS R44s?

The would have been all R44s and a few R46s and the would have been all R160s but thankfully its not like that today.

Edited July 22, 2013 by R62AR33

[VIP]

So if the would have been 100% R44, would have the MTA kept the 600ft even for the R179 order?

[SubBus]

R32s will be back on the for the Monday morning rush........

[RollOver]

The would have been all R44s and a few R46s and the would have been all R160s but thankfully its not like that today.

 

If the R44s didn't have rotting frame issues and that the R32s and R42s fully retire, then the and would have been a mixed fleet of the R44s and R46s. Not too sure about the though, because it seems as if the didn't have enough money for more R160s so that they could cover the entire fleet or that some of its equipment (most likely the CBTC 64 R160s) were needed on the during most of the rush hour and midday periods since that line's ridership had been fast growing with huge amount of riders than back in the day.

Edited July 22, 2013 by RollOverMyHead